[Visnaut]

If superior shows can get cancelled after far fewer episodes (e.g. Firefly) then I'm not surprised with the way Enterprise will end.

I second the opinion of others though, the prequel idea had a lot of potential, but it was quickly squandered.

All I'm curious to know now is how they're going to wrap the series up.

[RAILhead]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Well at least Battlestar can pick up the slack.

BSG was freakin' cool (I've seen all of them). While there's no script for a second season (that anyone knows of), the final episode ends with a pretty big cliffhanger that's just begging for a continuation. And hey, with Tricia Helfer in it, there's always something to look forward to!



Maury

PS: Anyone want to know how the 13th episode ends?

[ink]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Ah no, if you watched all of DS9 the cool thing was it was pretty much a 7 year long episode which was really cool.

It's the only TV show that I've actually paid money for the DVDs; thing is, the first 2 seasons weren't all that good either and it started picking up after that. Kind of like Enterprise...

[ink]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Sisko had by far the worst acting in a leader in a Star Trek series.

Have you seen Far Beyond The Stars? He's an incredible actor; much better than Kate Mulgrew, IMHO. He does have a theater background, which doesn't translate to the small screen all the time... but that's a minor flaw. And you think Shatner can act??

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by ink:
Have you seen Far Beyond The Stars? He's an incredible actor; much better than Kate Mulgrew, IMHO. He does have a theater background, which doesn't translate to the small screen all the time... but that's a minor flaw. And you think Shatner can act??

No, I don't think Shatner is a great actor. But the sad part is I think for Star Trek, Avery Brooks was much worse. You're right, even if he has a theatre background, it sure as hell didn't translate well onto the small screen.

Originally posted by ink:
It's the only TV show that I've actually paid money for the DVDs; thing is, the first 2 seasons weren't all that good either and it started picking up after that. Kind of like Enterprise...

I have zero desire to buy DS9 episodes. However, I do own some DVDs of the original Star Trek, and I may pick up the set eventually, even though I've seen them on TV a bazillion times.

[Skip Breakfast]

Wow. Watching sci-fi geeks argue is about as lame as watching white guys box.

[lewd0006]

Originally posted by Skip Breakfast:
Wow. Watching sci-fi geeks argue is about as lame as watching white guys box.

well that was a.. cute.. joke.

[Oneota]

Originally posted by Skip Breakfast:
Wow. Watching sci-fi geeks argue is about as lame as watching white guys box.

And who's holding the gun to your head forcing you to read this thread?

Anyway, I thought Avery Brooks did a fantastic job as Sisko. I rate him second only to Patrick Stewart in terms of strong captain characters. And it's a close second. (IMO)

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by Oneota:
And who's holding the gun to your head forcing you to read this thread?

Anyway, I thought Avery Brooks did a fantastic job as Sisko. I rate him second only to Patrick Stewart in terms of strong captain characters. And it's a close second. (IMO)

Too bad Brooks can't act very well outside of Star Trek.

[Oneota]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Too bad Brooks can't act very well outside of Star Trek.

I've not seen him in anything besides DS9, so I can't really respond to that (present evidence to the contrary notwithstanding, I guess).

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Too bad Brooks can't act very well outside of Star Trek.

he was in that movie with Markie Mark "The Big hit". My friend was in that movie with him and said he was big tall guy.

I also loved him in Star Trek. His character was written to bland in the first 2 seasons but after they made him less of a grump he was great.

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
he was in that movie with Markie Mark "The Big hit". My friend was in that movie with him and said he was big tall guy.

I also loved him in Star Trek. His character was written to bland in the first 2 seasons but after they made him less of a grump he was great.

I'D BUST SOME CAPS!

Anyway, that's what I was thinking about.

[iDriveX]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
No, I don't think Shatner is a great actor.

Watch Boston Legal. You get Shatner and Aberjonis (sp?) in the same show. And both of them are fantastic actors. In fact, I think Shatner was nominated for a Golden Globe for his performance in this first season. They had a great fight in the last episode in the bathroom. Amazing intensity from both actors.

[discotronic]

Originally posted by iDriveX:
Watch Boston Legal. You get Shatner and Aberjonis (sp?) in the same show. And both of them are fantastic actors. In fact, I think Shatner was nominated for a Golden Globe for his performance in this first season. They had a great fight in the last episode in the bathroom. Amazing intensity from both actors.

What about Shatner in Airplane: The Sequel? That was a high quality performance!

What about the rumors of him taking a role in Enterprise? Doesn't look like that will happen now. Probably better off that way. I didn't like the idea of Brent Spiner showing up on the series. Bringing people in from a previous series is a sign of desperation.

[iDriveX]

While I agree with you, Data was created in the image of his creator (Noonien Soong, can't spell it) and he played a huge role in the Eugenics war, so technically a sign of desperation, but played a good role and played it well. Brent Spiner did do an excellent job in TNG playing both a very dry character, very robotic character and then turned right around and played a very evil, dark character in Lore. Also, in the TNG movies, Spiner did great handling the anxiousness of the emotions chip and really made an android believable, bonus points for being to take it further and play an android nervous about experiencing emotions for the first time.

[Super Nova]

finally

SuperNova

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Executive producer Rick Berman blames "franchise fatigue" for the cancellation of Star Trek: Enterprise and said he expects a minimum three-year hiatus before a new Trek is launched. He added that the series finale would be "something of a valentine" for the fans.

Speaking to USA Today in the wake of the show's cancellation yesterday, Berman said, "The fact that we've done 624 hours of Star Trek over the last 18 years...there's a point at which you can reach a sense of overkill. It's probably good to lay fallow for a while to rejuvenate."

Zap2It quoted Berman as saying that the season finale was conceived as a series finale, and refusing to comment on rumours that Next Generation stars Marina Sirtis and Jonathan Frakes would appear in it. "We're not giving away any surprises," he stated.

Though fan efforts to save Enterprise are largely focusing on the idea that the series could be sold to a different network or syndicated, Berman said he didn't feel the marketplace would permit such a move. "First-run has been relegated now mostly to shows with far lower budgets than we have," he noted. "They're usually produced in Canada, and they're done on a budget less than half of what Paramount has been so generous to give us."

Star Trek: The Next Generation debuted with no science fiction competition, while now there's an entire Sci-Fi Channel with a lineup to compete with Enterprise - not to mention reruns of the previous Star Trek series in syndication and on cable. Gary Levin noted that the announcement of the series' cancellation came just after the announcement of its sale into syndication, saying the "cause of death" was a drop in viewership from 5.9 million in its first season to 2.9 million in its fourth.

[iDriveX]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Executive producer Rick Berman blames "franchise fatigue" for the cancellation of Star Trek: Enterprise and said he expects a minimum three-year hiatus before a new Trek is launched. He added that the series finale would be "something of a valentine" for the fans.

Speaking to USA Today in the wake of the show's cancellation yesterday, Berman said, "The fact that we've done 624 hours of Star Trek over the last 18 years...there's a point at which you can reach a sense of overkill. It's probably good to lay fallow for a while to rejuvenate."

Zap2It quoted Berman as saying that the season finale was conceived as a series finale, and refusing to comment on rumours that Next Generation stars Marina Sirtis and Jonathan Frakes would appear in it. "We're not giving away any surprises," he stated.

Though fan efforts to save Enterprise are largely focusing on the idea that the series could be sold to a different network or syndicated, Berman said he didn't feel the marketplace would permit such a move. "First-run has been relegated now mostly to shows with far lower budgets than we have," he noted. "They're usually produced in Canada, and they're done on a budget less than half of what Paramount has been so generous to give us."

Star Trek: The Next Generation debuted with no science fiction competition, while now there's an entire Sci-Fi Channel with a lineup to compete with Enterprise - not to mention reruns of the previous Star Trek series in syndication and on cable. Gary Levin noted that the announcement of the series' cancellation came just after the announcement of its sale into syndication, saying the "cause of death" was a drop in viewership from 5.9 million in its first season to 2.9 million in its fourth.

There was just as much competition in the first season as there was in the fourth so you can eliminate that argument. Star Trek was done to death by the first season as much as it's been done to death by the fourth season, so eliminate that one. So that pretty much would mean that the storyline has sucked now wouldn't it Berman....

Frakes and Sirtis in the Season Finale? Please tell me they travel back in time to 2001 to tell Berman that they shouldn't have Enterprise rely solely on Time Travel.

[discotronic]

I hope the next time around a fresh team with fresh ideas will be brought in. When I think of Star Trek the first thing that comes to mind is the second movie. It was such a departure from the way Star Trek had been previously. It was a darker side of Trek. It wasn't full of aliens and over the top special effects. It was about the characters and the story. It was a story that could have taken place in the 14th century or the 23rd century. That, IMO, is the way Star Trek should be. Of course bringing any alien species into the mix would be great. Just make the people, places, and story feel real.

[Super Nova]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
And hey, with Tricia Helfer in it, there's always something to look forward to!

Why don't you put that in the picture orgy?

SuperNova

[Oneota]

Originally posted by iDriveX:
There was just as much competition in the first season as there was in the fourth so you can eliminate that argument. Star Trek was done to death by the first season as much as it's been done to death by the fourth season, so eliminate that one. So that pretty much would mean that the storyline has sucked now wouldn't it Berman....

Re-read the text. He said that when TNG debuted, there was no sci-fi competition. TNG. Not Enterprise. He was making a comparison between the two eras.

Granted, that comparison was just trying to rationalize Enterprise's stinky-ness relative to TNG, but still.

I think Enterprise is genuinely getting better, and I wish they would let shows like that continue regardless of ratings. Who knows - if they had let the show continue for 7 seasons, new talent could have come in and made the show truly wonderful. Maybe not, but now we'll never know.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Ok I just watched an old firefox. What the hell, I mean people complain about the music for Enterprise? It was a friggin country song for Firefly. The episode was also a bore. A low production bore.

[Spliff]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Ok I just watched an old firefox. What the hell, I mean people complain about the music for Enterprise? It was a friggin country song for Firefly. The episode was also a bore. A low production bore.

Download episode 10, "Objects in Space." Brilliant episode, great writing. And you should probably start with the pilot episode.

Firefly was uneven for the premiere season, but nowhere as bad and cheesy as the first seasons of ST:NG, DS9, or Voyager.

[andi*pandi]

I think it takes 3 episodes of Firefly to get all the characters and crew dynamics. And then the backstory... really pulls you in. If you didn't like the theme song... well it fit with the whole concept, of rough frontiers, newly terraformed planets, post-battle for independence, the mix of cultures... I can't wait for the movie this fall. (click my sig!)

I waited for Enterprise to do that for me, to pull me in. I liked some of the characters, I even liked the prequel idea, but they never developed the characters. It was all cookie cutter. Part of the problem with previous ST is the "well, we're so perfect because on earth we abolished war and prejudice and gee we're wonderful prime directive blah blah," and I thought it would be interesting to see HOW they accomplished all that, how they first explored space, before the tech was perfect, when it was RISKY.

Frankly, when they started all the time travel BS, that's when they lost me. If they had a plan, it didn't seem like it. It just seemed like writing as you went. And this from someone who liked Dr. Who, so I can appreciate time travel.

[theJoKell]

I really liked Enterprise, but in some ways I'm kind of happy it's ending. Mostly because I hear the next trek (whenever it's going to happen) is going to revolve around Captain Riker on the U.S.S. Titan during the fall of the Federation. THAT could be a cool series.

[Randman]

Love the original series and the even-numbered movies. Liked TNG. Never saw more than the first season of DS9, though I'd still like to see the tribbles episode.
Only saw voyager a few times, mostly with 7of9. Thought Enterprise has potential the first season but it jumped the space shark quickly.

Oh, and as far as acting. Patrick Stewart is a very good actor, stage and screen. But when it came to Picard and Shatner sharing the screen, Shatner ate up the scenes and far-overshadowed Stewart. And this wasn't skinny Jim in the 60s bangin' all the green chicks Shatner either.

[Randman]

Originally posted by theJoKell:
I really liked Enterprise, but in some ways I'm kind of happy it's ending. Mostly because I hear the next trek (whenever it's going to happen) is going to revolve around Captain Riker on the U.S.S. Titan during the fall of the Federation. THAT could be a cool series.

I thought was just going to be another of the time-spanning arcs of Quantum Leap, er, I mean Enterprise this season.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by theJoKell:
I really liked Enterprise, but in some ways I'm kind of happy it's ending. Mostly because I hear the next trek (whenever it's going to happen) is going to revolve around Captain Riker on the U.S.S. Titan during the fall of the Federation. THAT could be a cool series.

Where'd you hear that?

Fall of the Federation to what? The Romulans?

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by Lateralus:
Where'd you hear that?

Fall of the Federation to what? The Romulans?

Sounds like Battlestar Galactica to me.

[lewd0006]

Originally posted by theJoKell:
I really liked Enterprise, but in some ways I'm kind of happy it's ending. Mostly because I hear the next trek (whenever it's going to happen) is going to revolve around Captain Riker on the U.S.S. Titan during the fall of the Federation. THAT could be a cool series.

That does sound cool.. just as long as it keeps progressing along the Trek timeline. No more trekking back before the 23rd century.

[Oneota]

Originally posted by theJoKell:
I really liked Enterprise, but in some ways I'm kind of happy it's ending. Mostly because I hear the next trek (whenever it's going to happen) is going to revolve around Captain Riker on the U.S.S. Titan during the fall of the Federation. THAT could be a cool series.

Yeah, it would be. Can't find much evidence of that, though (unless you'd be kind enough to provide some linkage). Just a reference to an upcoming book series called "Star Trek: Titan" that has roughly the same story line.

http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index...ar_Trek:_Titan

[Evan_11]

Star Trek has always been rather jokey. I hate to say it but the only time Star Trek has every really transcended it's roots is the Original Motion Picture which many fans don't care for. I think Nicholas Meyer did the best though of balancing the empathy that fans had for the characters with the fun of science fiction.

I never really got into the later shows after TNG. TNG even now is hard to watch.

A lot of fans diss Voyager but at least you see the characters. They decided to turn Enterprise into the 'we forgot to pay the electrical bill so everything is dark' look. I know that's one of the reasons my mom quit watching not to mention dull characters.

[TheBadgerHunter]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Sounds like Battlestar Galactica to me.

Sounds like any number of series, books, etc. The fall of a group/civilization isn't exactly new


I think this was pretty much as far as trek needed to go. Its been tapped dry and every story has been told. Hopefully by the time the season is over something will come around to fill the gap because frankly there isn't much good SciFi these days.

[nforcer]

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
frankly there isn't much good SciFi these days.

Stargate

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by nforcer:
Stargate

Perfect example of what is not good these days

[jcadam]

...and the Trek movies have more or less sucked since they brought in the TNG crew. The TNG movies have the feel of an elongated television episode of the series.

For the movies, bring in an all new cast, one that hasn't been involved in a Trek TV series. Just my opinion.

... and please no gay characters. Riker exploring his latent homosexual desires with that androgenous alien on TNG (forget the name of the episode) was more than enough to turn my stomach. And please no flames for my personal opinions on this matter also, the thought of man-on-man action makes my skin crawl and makes me feel physically ill.

[sugar_coated]

I have found all sci-fi TV series too fictitious and boring. If they added more sex scenes may be it will look more believable.

[Turias]

Originally posted by Evan_11:
A lot of fans diss Voyager but at least you see the characters. They decided to turn Enterprise into the 'we forgot to pay the electrical bill so everything is dark' look. I know that's one of the reasons my mom quit watching not to mention dull characters.

Hmmm, I didn't think Enterprise was too dark. Try adjusting your display's brightness and contrast levels.

But speaking of characters, am I alone in really liking the characters on Enterprise? I couldn't stand half of the crew on Voyager (*cough* Neelix, Janeway, Tuvok *cough*). Riker, Troi and Wesley also annoyed me on many an occasion. I never really got into DS9 or the original series, so I can't speak there, but it just seems to me that all of the characters on Enterprise are pretty good. I know some people can't stand Archer, but I think he's ok. Sure, the characters aren't amazing, but I like most of them.

Originally posted by jcadam:
And please no flames for my personal opinions on this matter also, the thought of man-on-man action makes my skin crawl and makes me feel physically ill.

If you don't want to be flamed for your "personal opinions", I'd suggest you keep them to yourself.

[TheBadgerHunter]

Originally posted by nforcer:
Stargate

Atlantis, sure, but not the original. Not that it isn't good but it is reaching the end of its life.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by jcadam:
... and please no gay characters. Riker exploring his latent homosexual desires with that androgenous alien on TNG (forget the name of the episode) was more than enough to turn my stomach. And please no flames for my personal opinions on this matter also, the thought of man-on-man action makes my skin crawl and makes me feel physically ill.

All i can suggest is therapy in that case.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Turias:
Hmmm, I didn't think Enterprise was too dark. Try adjusting your display's brightness and contrast levels.

Yeah, It looks awesome in Hi Def.

Riker, Troi and Wesley also annoyed me on many an occasion. I never really got into DS9 or the original series, so I can't speak there, but it just seems to me that all of the characters on Enterprise are pretty good. I know some people can't stand Archer, but I think he's ok. Sure, the characters aren't amazing, but I like most of them.

The idea of a series headed by Riker really worries me.

It's too bad that the writing for Enterprise sucked so bad the first couple of seasons. It's too late now for Enterprise, but I would much rather have seen Enterprise continue than see Riker in another series.

[MilkmanDan]

Khaaaaaaan

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Yeah, It looks awesome in Hi Def.

Alright, we get it, you watch it in hi def!!

Anywho, hi-def or not Enterprise is darker in terms of set lighting than next generation where nobody had a shadow.

DS9 did some interesting things with the lighting by putting lights behind grates on the ceiling.

I always though Voyager was the darkest though, the bridge and engineering were rather dim and all the sets were gray, green and blue.

[ranga]

Originally posted by jcadam:
...and the Trek movies have more or less sucked since they brought in the TNG crew. The TNG movies have the feel of an elongated television episode of the series.

Except for First Contact, I generally agree with you that the movies seemed like elongated episodes.

Even First Contact had a bit of that. It reminded me of Starship Mine, where Picard channels Steven Segal and defends the Enterprise with just his saddle and a plasma welder.

--ranga

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by ranga:
Except for First Contact, I generally agree with you that the movies seemed like elongated episodes.

Even First Contact had a bit of that. It reminded me of Starship Mine, where Picard channels Steven Segal and defends the Enterprise with just his saddle and a plasma welder.

--ranga

I thought Star Trek 6 felt like the highest production value to me. I love that one.

The final episode of TNG "All good things..." should have been the movie instead of that horrid Star Trek: Generations THAT MADE NO DAMN SENSE AT ALL!

[jcadam]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
I thought Star Trek 6 felt like the highest production value to me. I love that one.

The final episode of TNG "All good things..." should have been the movie instead of that horrid Star Trek: Generations THAT MADE NO DAMN SENSE AT ALL!

Star Trek The Motion Picture (I liked it, ok), Wrath of Kahn, Voyage Home, and Undiscovered Country were all outstanding. Most of the others were just

Except for Trek V, Insurrection, and Nemesis, which were truly awful, Highlander-2 class movies.

[ranga]

I thought Star Trek 6 felt like the highest production value to me. I love that one.

Undiscovered Country is one of my favorite Star Trek movies. However, I think that Wrath of Kahn was slightly better overall.

I also liked The Voyage Home. It had just enough humor to make it very entertaining. This is something I always like about the original series, they always had something light hearted to offset the seriousness. TNG didn't do a very good job of this (they did have the Robin Hood eps), but DS-9 occasionally did. One of the reasons I like Stargate is b/c the writers seem to understand that you can't just make the show super serious all the time or it get boring.

The final episode of TNG "All good things..." should have been the movie instead of that horrid Star Trek: Generations THAT MADE NO DAMN SENSE AT ALL!

I completely agree. All Good Things... was much better than Generations. Generations was the movie that should not have been made. They should just have gone straight to First Contact (maybe have a little aside saying the D got wreck in the Dominion wars or something). Even the Season 6 finale and the Season 7 opener w/ Data and Lore was MUCH better than Generations. The ONLY thing Generations had going for it was Kirk and they completely loused that up.

Re: Enterprise, I always wondered why they picked the stupid Birth of the Federation series over something cool like a Section 31 series. I could not bring myself to watch an entire Enterprise series b/c it was so bad, but I would eagerly have watched a show about Starfleet BlackOps/SpliterCell types saving the federation by whatever means necessary.

--ranga

[driven]

Originally posted by Athens:
what sucks for me is on Friday night at 8PM PST, there is nothing else to watch. Enterprise might not have been the best, BUT it was better then anything else on TV in that time slot. As well for the people saying YAY its gone, I remmeber so many PC friends saying that about the Mac just before the first iMac made it to market. Star Trek wont go away.

The problem with the Friday night timeslot is the same problem now, in 2004 as it was in 1969. It has to do with the demographic of Star Trek. Overwhelmingly the show has a young male audience.

What do young males do on Friday nights? Stay home and watch "Star Trek"? Doubtful.

If not for Tivo the show's ratings might even be lower.

[driven]

Originally posted by Oneota:
And who's holding the gun to your head forcing you to read this thread?

Anyway, I thought Avery Brooks did a fantastic job as Sisko. I rate him second only to Patrick Stewart in terms of strong captain characters. And it's a close second. (IMO)

I still like Sean Connery.

Ooops ..... wrong thread.

[nforcer]

Originally posted by ranga:
Undiscovered Country is one of my favorite Star Trek movies. However, I think that Wrath of Kahn was slightly better overall

...

--ranga

I agree to all points of your post. BotF was definately not the best option they had for a new series.