[Parky]

Here are the prices per GB for the new iPods (UK Prices only)

Size (GB) Price (�) Price per GB
iPod shuffle 0.5GB 0.5 69 �138.00
iPod shuffle 1GB 1 99 �99.00
iPod Mini 4GB 4 139 �34.75
iPod Mini 6GB 6 169 �28.17
iPod 20GB 20 209 �10.45
iPod photo 30GB 30 249 �8.30
iPod photo 60GB 60 309 �5.15

The 60GB does look like good value!

Ian

[sworthy]

For the Americans, who like me, suck at conversion ratios:

iPod shuffle 0.5GB 0.5 99 $198
iPod shuffle 1GB 1 149 $149
iPod Mini 4GB 4 199 $49.75
iPod Mini 6GB 6 249 $41.50
iPod 20GB 20 299 $14.95
iPod photo 30GB 30 349 $11.63
iPod photo 60GB 60 449 $7.48

edit: damn, the boards screw up all of my fancy spacing

[deaglecat]

For those in Rip-off Britain, here are the prices per GB for the new iPods (UK Prices converted to $ at todays rate of $1.90 to �1)

Size (GB) Price ($) Price per GB ($)
iPod shuffle 0.5GB 0.5 131 $262.00
iPod shuffle 1GB 1 189 $189.00
iPod Mini 4GB 4 265 $66.25
iPod Mini 6GB 6 322 $53.66
iPod 20GB 20 399 $19.95
iPod photo 30GB 30 475 $15.83
iPod photo 60GB 60 590 $9.83

The 60GB now doesn't seem such good value! In fact they all seem like they have been price gouged for the UK market.

[Krypton]

Originally posted by deaglecat:
For those in Rip-off Britain, here are the prices per GB for the new iPods (UK Prices converted to $ at todays rate of $1.90 to �1)

Size (GB) Price ($) Price per GB ($)
iPod shuffle 0.5GB 0.5 131 $262.00
iPod shuffle 1GB 1 189 $189.00
iPod Mini 4GB 4 265 $66.25
iPod Mini 6GB 6 322 $53.66
iPod 20GB 20 399 $19.95
iPod photo 30GB 30 475 $15.83
iPod photo 60GB 60 590 $9.83

The 60GB now doesn't seem such good value! In fact they all seem like they have been price gouged for the UK market.

Er, it's really not that bad - if you add 20% (Vat) the prices are near identical.

[Randman]

Plus, the warranties are different. Still, for that price, you shouldn't have the sound limitation.

[Mr Heliums]

Originally posted by Krypton:
Er, it's really not that bad - if you add 20% (Vat) the prices are near identical.

Sady, none of the whiners EVER remember about VAT and always forget about Sales Tax. Makes the argument easier I suppose.

[deaglecat]

Since when did the UK VAT rate = 20% it is 17.5%. And yes sales tax is also excluded which in NYC is 8.6% so yes around 9% is explained away - but what about the rest ?

[Putta]

For those of you who think the price difference between the US and UK is only brought up by "whiners" try this...

I know what VAT and sales tax are, and I can assure you that VAT here is not 268%.

People who swallow UK prices are moronic. When you buy a mac in South Africa, the price fluctuates almost daily according to the value of the rand. With the dollar showing equal volitility, it would be nice if Apple stopped screwing its customers abroad and tried a little harder to reflect the true costs in shipping, tax and exchange rates...

Belkin camera accessories for the iPod...

Below are the prices in dollars at the US Apple store and, in brackets, the price at the UK apple store (�69.95) converted into dollars. As you can see, the Belkin digital camera link is almost 3 times as much in the UK.

Belkin ipod media reader $69.95 ($133.62)
Belkin digital camera link for iPod $49.95 ($133.62)

While there is a 17.5% VAT (sales tax) in the UK, this can't account for this.

Also, the two items above cost the same in the UK while there is a $20 price difference in the US. It seems odd that this is not reflected one way or another...

An apple store UK employee put this down to different taxes in different countries but this is clearly not the case. The iPod mini (6Gb) costs �169 including tax here ($322.55), compared to the US $249 price. This is a premium of 29.5%. This is still far below the 268% premium on the digital camera link.

[Krypton]

Ok.

1. Yes I am aware VAT is 17.5%.

2. The new iPods are good value - the minis are far better for the money than anything else here, and the regular iPod is only �9 more than the Creative brick players, and far cheaper than players made by Rio and Philips.

[Mr Heliums]

Originally posted by Putta:
The iPod mini (6Gb) costs �169 including tax here ($322.55), compared to the US $249 price. This is a premium of 29.5%. This is still far below the 268% premium on the digital camera link.

My gripe is that those who may have a genuine point to make spoil their argument through disingenous facts. You've done it again here. You quote the UK price INCLUSIVE of VAT and compare it to a US price EXCLUSIVE of VAT. Care to explain why, other than to misleadingly add weight to an argument?

Surely a fairer comparison would be to look at the UK ex VAT price (�143.82) and convert that at today's rate of 1.91. Which gives 274 US dollars, not 322. If you want to argue about the 12 UKP premium then fine, but at least compare like with like.

Incidentally, considering the collapse of the dollar, I don't think we're doing not too badly. If you'd compared it a week or so ago when we were back at 1.82 or so, the difference really would be fractional.

[deaglecat]

The dollar was hovering around 2 to the � only a few weeks ago.

Fact is that that the UK often gets a rough deal from Apple - and not just with the US. That is why the EU commissioner is investigating iTunes pricing....

Apologists and those that deny the problem frankly are not helping those of us who want to see a fair deal.

[Putta]

Right, I'll try and answer these points one at a time...

I didn't include US sales tax as it varies state to state. Even when it is included, it is much less than in the UK (not Apple's fault, I grant you). It was not to make my argument stronger. So, lets do the sums again, this time without any sales tax in either country (as I think we willall agree that this is not in any way Apple's responsibility):

iPod mini 6Gb: $249 in the US compared to $273 in the UK. I suppose Apple probably donate that 10% premium to charity do they?

This is all beyond the point, that the accessories I mentioned went far beyond Apple's usual premium. If you read my post you will see its focus is on the accessories, not the iPods per se.

In the case of the camera link, eliminating VAT and using your rate of 1.82* $:�. The UK premium is still 221%. Maybe you simply earn more than I do, but $58 is not fractional to me when all I am trying to do is buy an accesory for an iPod...

The fact is that the European (and particularly British) premium is pretty much established and is rather more obvious with Apple than Dell for example...

* I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt on the rate, but going back to the beginning of the year at http://www.xe.com/ict/ I couldn't get anything less than 1.88

Originally posted by Mr Heliums:
My gripe is that those who may have a genuine point to make spoil their argument through disingenous facts. You've done it again here. You quote the UK price INCLUSIVE of VAT and compare it to a US price EXCLUSIVE of VAT. Care to explain why, other than to misleadingly add weight to an argument?

Surely a fairer comparison would be to look at the UK ex VAT price (�143.82) and convert that at today's rate of 1.91. Which gives 274 US dollars, not 322. If you want to argue about the 12 UKP premium then fine, but at least compare like with like.

Incidentally, considering the collapse of the dollar, I don't think we're doing not too badly. If you'd compared it a week or so ago when we were back at 1.82 or so, the difference really would be fractional.

[Mr Heliums]

Originally posted by deaglecat:
snip

Deaglecat: answer the question. Why do you compare UK prices inc VAT against US prices excluding sales tax?

[Mr Heliums]

Originally posted by Putta:

This is all beyond the point, that the accessories I mentioned went far beyond Apple's usual premium. If you read my post you will see its focus is on the accessories, not the iPods per se.

In the case of the camera link, eliminating VAT and using your rate of 1.82* $:�. The UK premium is still 221%. Maybe you simply earn more than I do, but $58 is not fractional to me when all I am trying to do is buy an accesory for an iPod...

Putta,

As I keep saying my principal point was not whether UK buyers get a rough deal - it's the slanted way the 'rip-off' argument is presented EVERY SINGLE TIME. I'd have a lot more sympathy for those who complain if they didn't feel the need to quite clearly distort facts. The rip off can't be that great if it needs to be falsely exaggerated.

As this is an iPod forum and the thread was about iPods, I don't have much to say about a third-party camera link. But yes, that looks like a rip-off: I'd ask Belkin why, as Apple's price for it is competitive in the UK.

Incidentally, I do believe that any iPod price difference isn't enough to get worked up over; I'd imagine that they have to cover themselves with exchange rates, and I don't pretend to know how much more expensive it is to ship in the UK than it is in the US; I'd imagine, given the tortuous route taken by everything I order from the Apple Store, that it does cost more though.

Given that, I'm not going to lose sleep over a few extra pounds.

[deaglecat]

Irrespective of sales tax there is still no equivalence. I would be perfectly happy if tax were the only issue !

[Mr Heliums]

Originally posted by deaglecat:
Irrespective of sales tax there is still no equivalence. I would be perfectly happy if tax were the only issue !

You're still not answering the question.

[deaglecat]

My ipod is assembled in Taiwan - So why should it cost more for a product from the far east to be shipped to the UK than the US ?

Why is an itune $.99 in the US and $1.28 in the UK (this at �.67 EXCLUDING VAT at an exchange rate of 1.91). Given that no physical product is shipped, are you suggesting that the bitstream costs 29% more to ship to the UK?

Or am I not comparing like with like here ?

[Mr Heliums]

Originally posted by deaglecat:
My ipod is assembled in Taiwan - So why should it cost more for a product from the far east to be shipped to the UK than the US ?

Why is an itune $.99 in the US and $1.28 in the UK (this at �.67 EXCLUDING VAT at an exchange rate of 1.91). Given that no physical product is shipped, are you suggesting that the bitstream costs 29% more to ship to the UK?

Or am I not comparing like with like here ?

I'm sorry, I'm completely losing your point. You're now throwing in unrelated products to justify an argument I'm not sure I was even having with you.

I have no idea why an iTune costs a different amount in different countries. It might be a rip-off; it might be down to licensing issues in the same way that CDs in the UK are much more expensive than their US equivalents. Who knows? Frankly, why on earth are we talking about the price of iTunes - or Belkin cables for that matter? Did I ever say what great value they were?

As I keep saying - and I suspect I'm going to have to repeat it very slowly soon, because it's obviously not getting through - I asked you why you made a misleading comparison about iPod prices, because it devalues any point you might be making.

And for the sake of clarity, I'll also repeat that I think the price difference between UK and US iPods isn't worth getting upset about.

[deaglecat]

Mr Helliums wrote

"As I keep saying my principal point was not whether UK buyers get a rough deal - it's the slanted way the 'rip-off' argument is presented EVERY SINGLE TIME. I'd have a lot more sympathy for those who complain if they didn't feel the need to quite clearly distort facts. The rip off can't be that great if it needs to be falsely exaggerated."

Well clearly not EVERY SINGLE TIME cos I just quoted prices excluding taxes... This pricing will be interesting because the EU is investigating this very topic.

Also, how is itunes an unrelated product - last time I checked, itunes and the ipod were pretty related.

I do however accept your argument that we should quote prices on a like for like basis. But even on a like for like basis, the prices are still not equivalent and they should be.

Life is too short for this bickering. Good luck with the rest of the thread.

[Putta]

Mr Helliums,

I appreciate the point you make and while not perfect, perhaps there is a reason prices are quoted as they are.

If you look at the Apple Store in the US and the Apple Store in the UK, the former quotes tax exclusive prices, the latter quotes them including tax (for obvious state-variable reasons). I think this is much more to do with the way people quote prices.

I do agree with you however, that it is a bad way to do it and I will follow your lead in future.

------

In answer to some more specific points... Its honestly not the few pounds that make a difference to me, its the nasty taste in my mouth when I realise things could be done better, and more fairly, than they are at present. Living in the UK, you get quite sick of the 10% extra you pay after exchange rates and tax. I don't even need to mention all the other stuff like iPhoto albums, sherlock functionality etc (While I understand why all these things are hampered, it should be reflected in the price at least!!!).

The exchange rate is around 1.9 and the dollar is only going to fall if anything. None of this is represented in Apple's prices which are the last to react to these fluctuations (unless it suits them...).

[sworthy]

Because I've only followed Apple when the dollar has been relatively weak... What was the UK/EU pricing like when the dollar was strong?

[Mr Heliums]

Originally posted by sworthy:
Because I've only followed Apple when the dollar has been relatively weak... What was the UK/EU pricing like when the dollar was strong?

In terms of the UK, it was much worse a few years ago. In the nineties, when the pound was worth $1.50, it used to be said that Apple simply swapped pounds for dollar signs when they imported stuff. Ironically, with the decline in the dollar, and the more realistic exchange rate conversion now adopted by Apple, UK prices have actually dropped faster than their US equivalents.

No idea about EU pricing pre Euro.