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TheSpaz · Apr 24, 2005, 08:50 PM

Okay... just when I thought that Apple could not ignore the scroll bars, title bar widges, and progress bars one more time... they did.

Why does it seem so right that they fix that. They're SO OUT OF PLACE!!! I bet 10.5 will come out and it still won't be addressed. Bummer.

This makes me sad... at least we still have Max. :-)

mac15 · Apr 24, 2005, 08:58 PM

I don't think Apple see's them as a big problem, remember it was Steve who sat down with the gui guys - they even took 3 hours to decide on what shadows should be used.

aristotles · Apr 24, 2005, 11:56 PM

What are you talking about?

WJMoore · Apr 25, 2005, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by aristotles

What are you talking about?

Apple has flattened and toned down the GUI every release after 10.0 but the scroll bars and progress bars still retain their original (non flattened) looks.

esXXI · Apr 25, 2005, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by aristotles

What are you talking about?

The progress bars and scrollbars use pre-Panther highlighting style, so they look "chunkier" and out of place compared to other elements.

brutal · Apr 25, 2005, 10:39 AM

Are the progressbars still blurry and ugly aswell?

MacDog · Apr 25, 2005, 01:29 PM

The whole GUI is ugly... why should the scroll bars be any exception?

esXXI · Apr 25, 2005, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by MacDog

The whole GUI is ugly... why should the scroll bars be any exception?

You're welcome to try XP or classic Windows if you think those are more eye pleasing.

(Although yes, they should of updated the progress and scroll bars)

loki74 · Apr 26, 2005, 02:00 AM

y'know, I actually prefer the glass look to the flat one. I think its what really made Aqua look, well, Aqua. Although I did appreciate the toning down of the stripes etc from Jaguar to Panther (I actually never used Jaguar, but Ive seen screenshots) and some other things. However, I think the new menubar in Tiger is a bad move... thats just me though, proabably.

I like the hard specular (on the buttons and scrollbars) much better than the soft specular (on the progressbars) But ANYTHING beats XP or Win Classic. I mean, you would have to try damn hard to make it uglier than that gray grap, and the ugly looking bevels etc?

I wonder if the move towards the more flat thing is to keep uniqueness from MS, who is beginning to rip Apple off (anyone seen the latest on WMP?) ...I think I might have said that in another post.. oh well.

I dont think that Apple should tone down anymore, especially if thats part of the reason. MS wishes it had Apples look, and everyone knows that.

Apfhex · Apr 26, 2005, 02:29 AM

I don't think they're so bad, it's possible they could look nicer with a little tweaking/flattening (especially with Tiger heading even more in the flatter plastic look that started showing up in Panther), but they don't bother me.

siMac · Apr 26, 2005, 01:32 PM

The scrollbars from the Dictionary widget would be better for the system - flatter and whiter.

With Tiger the OSX GUI has become a mish-mash of glass/metal/plastic and lacks any kind of consistency. I like the new 'Plastic' look very much and would like to see it replace all metal in the interface; that and the retirement of all pinstripes would make me happy.

Also, the Tiger menubar clashes horribly when any metal or plastic window titlebars are butted up against it. Oh well, bring on Shapeshifter Tiger Edition (grrrr!).

TheSpaz · Apr 26, 2005, 09:13 PM

I think I know why they made the Menubar glass like that. Here is my theory:

Where in the Finder (or anywhere in the OS) do you ever click on something that doesn't look glass/aqua colored? The Menubar is the only place in Panther where you click on a striped surface... get it? I think the glassy Menubar in Tiger is to let new Mac users know that it's supposed to be clickable just like the rest of the interface. Does anyone else agree with my theory... maybe Apple really is trying to be more consistent... on that note... I think PANTHER's menubar is out of place. See for yourself.

loki74 · Apr 26, 2005, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

I think I know why they made the Menubar glass like that. Here is my theory:

Where in the Finder (or anywhere in the OS) do you ever click on something that doesn't look glass/aqua colored? The Menubar is the only place in Panther where you click on a striped surface... get it? I think the glassy Menubar in Tiger is to let new Mac users know that it's supposed to be clickable just like the rest of the interface. Does anyone else agree with my theory... maybe Apple really is trying to be more consistent... on that note... I think PANTHER's menubar is out of place. See for yourself.

hrm... that is definitely food for thought. I still like the striped menus better, but this is logical, and consistent with Apple's UI intutitiveness. I think the main reason that I have an affitnity to the pinstripes is because they were toned down in Panther, and when on my PC i would look at OSX screenshots thinking "damn I wish I had a Mac..." (although Aqua was last on my list of reasons why) the pinstripes were one of the things that struck me as very unique.

Im sure that Apple has a purpose behind everything, and as they get Feedback I think overally everything will become much better. Best to give it time, I guess. (besides, I need to save $--just got the G5 this past Christmas, and still feeling that dent in the wallet

)

ryaxnb · Apr 27, 2005, 02:54 AM

Me? I think Apple has convinced itself that the old scrollbars/progress bars are modern

TheSpaz · Apr 27, 2005, 11:06 PM

Scroll bars are one thing... look at those HIDEOUS PROGRESS BARS! Man! They look so blurry and ancient! I think the reason Apple's GUI team hasn't tried updating them is because they're harder to re-create than the standard Aqua. You have animation involved in both Scroll Bars and Progress Bars... Maybe they fired the original guy that did the scroll bars and nobody dares tackle them. I'm just thinking of possible solutions to why Apple would ignore such an obvious thing like that. Besides... nobody from Apple has been to Max's site... nobody has seen Max's Smooth Stripes/Aqua Extreme themes... It's EVERYWHERE, and still they ignore it like it never existed.

Did anyone see the problem with the push buttons in Jaguar... no?... for some reason they updated these in Panther for no particular reason... I didn't see the problem with the Jaguar ones... They also made the Tabs into... not tabs... which doesn't make sense to me... I always thought Tabs were more accurate for what they do... now we have one large divided button that is supposed to simulate the old tab which doesn't really make sense at all.

Now Tiger is here... and they've updated the GUI once again... for the better? I dunno... probably for the worse. Now the menu bar is glossy (which I will get over because it seems to match push buttons) and now the brand spankin' new, ugly as hell, eye sores of death... the Mail.app buttons.

I don't know if anyone in the past has done this... but, I've downloaded Apps before and before I even use them... I'll toss them if the Interface is poory built and designed. I would probably look for a new Mail app in order to get away from the Tiger one (or I'll make the toolbar "text only").

Everyone here knows that when it comes to GUI... Apple is lacking... Why don't they hire Max to do all the OS X GUI stuff? He could do it all and probably come up with stuff that would be soooo cool if he knew the codes to change stuff in OS X instead of relying on Jason to build it into ShapeShifter (No offense Jason, ShapeShifter rocks).

That's all I wanted to say... Grrrr... how can such a good company make me mad like this.

sushiism · Apr 28, 2005, 05:32 AM

Yep I have to say the Panther tab change made no sense at all really, they look nothing like tabs now (a gui concept that we've all been familiar with for over 10 years)

Menu bar going from stripes to glossy makes sense as its clickable

Don't understand why we are getting plastic ipod style windows added in to the mix now after all that metal nonsense we put up with the last 2 versions. Personally I thought metal should have been scrapped out in favor of a plastic look back in Jaguar (starting with iTunes to match the ipod and spread it out from there) but now we have all 3 and its just bizzare.

Why did mail have to change it was one of my favorite looking applications, its horrible now and looks overly complex like windows outlook

hihowareyou · Apr 28, 2005, 06:12 AM

it is possible to get old mail running under tiger?

loki74 · Apr 29, 2005, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by sushiism

Yep I have to say the Panther tab change made no sense at all really, they look nothing like tabs now (a gui concept that we've all been familiar with for over 10 years)

Menu bar going from stripes to glossy makes sense as its clickable

Don't understand why we are getting plastic ipod style windows added in to the mix now after all that metal nonsense we put up with the last 2 versions. Personally I thought metal should have been scrapped out in favor of a plastic look back in Jaguar (starting with iTunes to match the ipod and spread it out from there) but now we have all 3 and its just bizzare.

Why did mail have to change it was one of my favorite looking applications, its horrible now and looks overly complex like windows outlook

totally. I never liked the metal look. I mean, it just doesnt seem... Mac-like. And the tabs...thats just wierd. I mean what physical object does it allude to? Most of Apple's UI elements allude to physical objects (drawers, sheets, buttons) maybe except for menus. Tabs should be well.. tabs. Not like switcher buttons thingies or something like that...

pyn · Apr 29, 2005, 06:06 AM

they should use max's aqua widgets...they really pwnz the ugly progress and scrollbars

radii_22 · May 1, 2005, 04:24 PM

I would like to see a theme which could stand a middle point between Aqua and Metal : Something like the new "plastic" menu bars in Tiger, but a little bit more glossy and volumetric. The same theme applied to Safari, finder, spotlight, and the other windows. iLife in brushed metal (and QuickTime), Pro applications with the "pro theme", and a total freedom in Dashboard widgets.

As for the GUI widgets : I think that the inconsistency of Apple's GUI is stronger in that domain, given the Aqua "rounded" widgets (as scrollbars and buttons), the Metal widgets, the glossy but plain widgets, the new semi-plastic, shadowed but plain buttons of the new finder searches, and the back of dashboard widgets buttons.

I agree that the tabs in Panther are not very realistic, but the ones of Jaguar were horrible (so much volume!).

If I were lead designer of GUI in Apple, I would like to create an Aqua like theme, but a little bit more plain, and sunked. I would also reconsiderate the use of regular the aqua style in Safari (and webkit) forms, I just think that some things must be improved a lot : the check boxes, I find them ugly and also the radio buttons.

ps. I'm a fever-man of icons : Those icons of Panther's folders were horrible. Tigers are the same... horrible.

brutal · May 2, 2005, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

Why don't they hire Max to do all the OS X GUI stuff? He could do it all and probably come up with stuff that would be soooo cool

hear hear

mugget · May 2, 2005, 08:17 AM

then they could start bundling various kewl themes with every new OS release and give people the option of which theme to use instead of just graphite or blue. now a extra section in the Appearance preference pane... that's what i'm talkin' about!

Gerrit Vanoppen · May 2, 2005, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by mugget

then they could start bundling various kewl themes with every new OS release and give people the option of which theme to use instead of just graphite or blue. now a extra section in the Appearance preference pane... that's what i'm talkin' about!

Nice idea, but still there's a chance your favorite won't be in it.
Personally I'd appreciate it more if Apple would simplify the way OSX handles the GUI resources, so we'd only have to theme like 10 button resources instead of 40 - as an example.