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tavilach · 07:26 AM

Fellow MacNN'ers,

Please cast aside your third party menu items (i.e. Meteorologist, MenuMeters, etc.). Trogdor is hungry, and he likes menu items.

It frustrated many of us to no end that Apple had refused to release the API for menu items, leaving developers on their own (and as a result, creating a lot of GUI inconsistency). We figured that Apple simply didn't want menu bar clutter (which is especially harmful when menu items start to dissappear as priority is given to an application's menu), but we didn't know where else to put the little doohickeys. Now we do: Dashboard.

In an effort to halt the growing clutter in the menu bar, I urge you all to shift from using third party menu items to using Dashboard widgets. The menu bar was never meant to hold a wide array of little meters, and the sooner people stop using third party menu items, the sooner more Dashboard widgets will be available to accomplish the same tasks (and more).

Have some pity for Trogdor.

WJMoore · May 1, 2005, 07:34 AM

Well that's certainly a novel use for Trogdor

Randman · May 1, 2005, 10:28 AM

You're violating copyright issues.

Secondly, I use third-party items (F10, Winswitch, MenuMeters, Konfabulator (with a blank icon) and CalendarClock (the freeware version in Tiger) because I have the room and because they all serve a purpose. To use the similar items in Dashboard or Konfabulator involves more work. And that's anathema, isn't it?

siMac · May 1, 2005, 10:56 AM

Thirdly, you're an idiot.

LightWaver-67 · May 1, 2005, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by siMac

Thirdly, you're an idiot.

What was the purpose of that...?

CaptainHaddock · May 1, 2005, 07:59 PM

I think Tavilach makes some very good points.

And Trogdor rules!

Burninating the countryside,
Burninating the peasants!

mdc · May 1, 2005, 08:21 PM

dashboard has replaced a menu extra for me. aoin a word clock.

Apfhex · May 1, 2005, 08:59 PM

So where's the Trogdor widget I expected when I opened this thread? ;P

The Weather widget is SO beautiful that I'm using it instead of WeatherMenu, even though it gives you much less data (which isn't really necessary anyway, unless you Just Gotta Know). Plus it updates everytime I open Dashboard, eliminating my having to select "Update" in WeatherMenu everytime I wake my computer from sleep (which is certainly often enough).

MilkmanDan · May 1, 2005, 11:27 PM

Me need Trogdor Widget!

malvolio · May 2, 2005, 02:06 AM

Sorry, but I am deeply attached to all 10 of my 3rd-party menubar items.

I mean, all you gotta do is glance at them. No keystrokes or mouse movement required.

Spliff · May 2, 2005, 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by malvolio

Sorry, but I am deeply attached to all 10 of my 3rd-party menubar items.

I mean, all you gotta do is glance at them. No keystrokes or mouse movement required.

I trashed Konfabulator from my system for a reason: most widgets are useless and the implementation sucks. Dashboard is just Konfabulator by Apple.

I love Menu items; they're the closest thing to the Control Strip modules of OS 9. God, I miss those.

Randman · May 2, 2005, 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by tavilach

The menu bar was never meant to hold a wide array of little meters.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

CaptainHaddock · May 2, 2005, 05:52 AM

A cluttered menubar reminds me of the crappy Windows system tray.

Randman · May 2, 2005, 06:00 AM

On a PB17, it's hardly cluttered. Besides, you can adjust the placement of the items over as needed. Or use a transaparent icon as in konfabulator. And it's hardly a system tray to see data at a glance.

OreoCookie · May 2, 2005, 06:09 AM

No name-calling, please.

CaptainHaddock · May 2, 2005, 03:59 PM

And it's hardly a system tray to see data at a glance.

That is a good point, so long as menubar icons are actually informative.

Krypton · May 2, 2005, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Randman

On a PB17, it's hardly cluttered.

Not everyone is as fortunate as you though

At 1024 x 768 menu extras start to collide with app menus if you have 5+ or so. I do much prefer menu extras, but you have to see that Apple had good reason to depreciate them.

tavilach · May 2, 2005, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by malvolio

Sorry, but I am deeply attached to all 10 of my 3rd-party menubar items.

I mean, all you gotta do is glance at them. No keystrokes or mouse movement required.

I agree that glancing at menu items is a bit less work, but I also feel that pressing a single key is something that we could all get used to. I used to have my dock unhidden, so that I could always glance at how many unread emails I had. I hate the third party menu item that shows the email count in the menu bar (it just doesn't feel very "Apple"), and I decided that screen real estate was more important than the ability to quickly glance at my message count. Now my dock is hidden, and I simply pop it up to view my message count. I'm totally used to it, and it's not a pain at all.

Menu items are convenient, but you have to admit that Dashboard is a far more elegant and sensible way to do things. Many users do have small screens (myself not included), and I feel that with Dashboard, all Mac users are given a uniform way to access data quickly. The sooner we drop our love for menu items, the sooner Dashboard widgets will become all the rage. And the sooner that happens, the sooner we'll get more and more innovative and useful widgets. Do you see where I'm going with this?

Chuckit · May 2, 2005, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Krypton

At 1024 x 768 menu extras start to collide with app menus if you have 5+ or so.

Widgets are proportionately larger than Menu Extras. In the end, if you have a lot of either, you wind up with either an overly cluttered menubar or an overly cluttered dashboard.

Originally Posted by Krypton

I do much prefer menu extras, but you have to see that Apple had good reason to depreciate them.

Apple never allowed third parties to make Menu Extras, and it doesn't seem any more reluctant to use them now considering it actually added more in Tiger.

tavilach · May 2, 2005, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Widgets are proportionately larger than Menu Extras. In the end, if you have a lot of either, you wind up with either an overly cluttered menubar or an overly cluttered dashboard.

Apple never allowed third parties to make Menu Extras, and it doesn't seem any more reluctant to use them now considering it actually added more in Tiger.

You're overlooking the fact that the Dashboard is meant to be "cluttered." Its functionality doesn't overlap with anything else!

As for Apple having extra menu items, your menu bar would not be cluttered even if you used every single Apple menu item. As for adding third party menu items...

Chuckit · 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by tavilach

As for Apple having extra menu items, your menu bar would not be cluttered even if you used every single Apple menu item.

You don't think 23 Menu Extras would be a bit much?

And one could argue that there's really no harm to the menubar being cluttered, either � it's all menus, after all. I don't think an overcluttered dashboard (where widgets are blocking each other out) would be any less confusing than an overcluttered menubar (where menus are blocking each other out).

tavilach · May 2, 2005, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

You don't think 23 Menu Extras would be a bit much?

There are that many? Guess I was wrong. But in any case, Apple doesn't expect users to use them all.

Randman · May 2, 2005, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by tavilach

I feel that with Dashboard, all Mac users are given a uniform way to access data quickly. The sooner we drop our love for menu items, the sooner Dashboard widgets will become all the rage. And the sooner that happens, the sooner we'll get more and more innovative and useful widgets. Do you see where I'm going with this?

You're basic premise is wrong. The widgets are taking off. Look at the number of widget sites already. Plus, it's every Mac users' fundamental right to to access that data in whatever way they want.

You want widgets, use widgets? But please don't tell me I should drop my menu bar items so widget construction can take off.

Anubis IV · May 2, 2005, 10:12 PM

Personally, I like being able to see what the temperature outside is without having to hit fn+(one of the F keys). If I want any more information than that, I'll either pull down the menu in Meteorologist or flip to the Dashboard and take a look at the information that is available there. Ditto for MenuMeters. It isn't going anywhere anytime soon, because I like to be able to see instantly if I'm downloading or uploading anything unexpectedly or if my CPU is suddenly going berserk on me. I like having Adium up there because I can tell at a glance if I have new IMs (which is useful for me, because I also use Desktop Manager (which also resides up on my menu) so the IM window might be on a different desktop). To say the least, I think that Dashboard has a place: to provide more in-depth information that you want quick access to. If I want at-a-glance information though, the menu is still the place I want to look. The two work together...cooperatively. They don't compete.

Chuckit · May 2, 2005, 11:53 PM

Besides that, click-click (selecting a menu item) is a much faster operation than click-then-hunt-for-the-right-item-then-click-and-possibly-click-again (opening Dashboard and operating a widget). I actually like Dashboard a lot more than I thought I would, but to suggest that it's a suitable replacement for menus is just goofy.