[jindrich]

(NOTE: i'm not running tiger yet, will do it as soon as i get home in summer, so apologies if this is already implemented in the latest safari version, though i sincerely doubt it)


What Safari unbedingt needs:

1) CONFIRM BEFORE QUITTING!
2) UNDO close Tab
3) "Whole Saving" option


1) it's so dumb i cannot believe it. Is Safari the single one Mac app that DOESNT REQUIRE CONFIRM when quitting??
you know, the combination of keystrokes to close a tab or the whole app are Sooooooo close togehter (cmd-w VS cmd-q)... How many times did you, by mistake, close the app instead of a single tab, specially when you spent 2 hours researching, and had 20 tabs of precious data?
This MUST be adressed YESTERDAY!


2) by the same token, those tabs can be so small when you have lotsa them, that it's quite easy to hit the "x" instead of anywhere else, and close it. Wouldn't it be great to be able to undo that, and have the tab back?


3) internet it's everywhere. Yeah. Well, almost.
i'm studying in germany right now, and dont have (decently priced) internet access during the weekends, so on friday i have to browse for what i'll be reading then. I can end up having some 100 tabs in 5 or 6 windows.
A simple mistake can so easly close Safari, to my despair (picture me crying "NO, NO, NO", when the beachball spins for 2 minutes as it closes all tabs), or, even as i have 1GB RAM in my powerbook, i can't do much the whole weekned as i keep those 100 tabs open, without getting pageins-outs like crazy (all memory is taken by safari), and the powerbook gets slow as molasses...

Dear Steve, wouldnt it be great to be able to save EVERYTHING we have opened in safari, even when we're NOT online. Isnt all that already stored somewhere in cache/memory? why can't we save it as a whole, EVERY SINGLE TAB just as they're already loaded, for SAFE later off-line surfing?


thx dear Steve in advance. We all love you, greetings from Freiburg.
Q.

[Big Mac]

1. Programs only confirm before quitting when there are unsaved windows open, which does not apply in this case. But you could argue that web browsers are special cases, because the content within them is often valuable, yet unlike other applications, browser content does not normally get saved.

2. I agree with this suggestion. I know there are enhancers that perform this function.

3. Do you know how long it would take to correctly save all of that for offline viewing? It's not a simple process - if it were, you'd see it as a standard feature in all browsers. Show me a browser with that functionality. With that said, there are a number of utilities that provide offline viewing. They don't do the job very quickly.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Undo close tabs would be a bandaid to a bigger problem which is the hack known as the 'tabbed-interface'.

Your main gripes are known as PEBCAK. (but that tabbed-interface... ...what a kludge.)

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

1. Programs only confirm before quitting when there are unsaved windows open, which does not apply in this case. But you could argue that web browsers are special cases, because the content within them is often valuable, yet unlike other applications, browser content does not normally get saved.

An alternative would be to allow the preference to retain window settings over launches. If you quit and reopen, the websites that were open when you quit would be there waiting.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Stradlater

An alternative would be to allow the preference to retain window settings over launches. If you quit and reopen, the websites that were open when you quit would be there waiting.

In theory, that's all beautiful. But if that happened with the way jindrich uses Safari, the computer would melt and his ISP would go nuclear.

100 sites to load on launch is something we can all dream of for another few years.

[version]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

In theory, that's all beautiful. But if that happened with the way jindrich uses Safari, the computer would melt and his ISP would go nuclear.

100 sites to load on launch is something we can all dream of for another few years.

I do it every day using Saft... bloody great lil' Safari plugin.

[Fusion]

Whole saving is an option in Tiger. It is called save as a web archive.

[Randman]

http://www.ocdev.com/
Taboo is a freeware app that gives you a prompt if you try and close more than 1 page. Works for Safari 2.0.

As mentioned, the save option is there. Works quite well.

[Apfhex]

Yeah, Safari 2.0 can save pages well (in what I've tried).

As for restoring tabs/windows you had open... this could be solved with sessions. OmniWeb has them and seems to be a great implementation of that sort of thing. There's a plugin for Firefox. I wish Safari had something like that too (my problem is not hitting cmd q—I've learned to be careful with that—but having Safari crash while loading a page).

[Oisín]

There are a few features in Opera (for Windows at least; not sure if they're all there in the Mac version as well) that Safari could do really well with having:

1) Restoring tabs/windows after closing/crashing—Opera asks you every time after a crash, and you can set the default behaviour after closing in Preferences.

2) Opening all new pages in new tabs, ie. getting completely rid of new windows.

3) Jumping to Previous/Next page without reloading the page every time! This one is really annoying with Safari. Sometimes, my Internet connection will be excruciatingly slow, and clicking 'back' (or backspace, as I always do) will result in about a minute of waiting time, until the previous page is usable again—super-annoying in places like these forums, where you go back and forth all the time! In Opera, it takes a split second, and it doesn't reload the page.*

4) Complete list of all previously closed tabs/windows. Like a mixture of the OP's point no. 2 (undo close tab) and the history already present in Safari. It's very nice to be able to reopen a tab that you closed 13 tabs ago, and it still opens at the same place where you left it.


Of course, some of these features are part of the reason why Opera is such a memory hog on Windows, but as long as they'd be deactivatable (I'm pretty sure that's not a word, but I'm tired and don't care), you could choose which combination you wanted to use.



*Note: I know that Safari doesn't reload the content of the page, ie. the list of threads on the main subforum pages isn't updated; but it still takes ages!

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by Oisín

super-annoying in places like these forums, where you go back and forth all the time!

Why are you going back and forth all the time? I open a few threads in new tabs, read them, and reload the page.

[timmerk]

What does Safari need? Or rather not need? Remove RSS support!

[Spiky919]

Can't you just look through your history and find what page you were at...?

[Randman]

You can also Mark Page for Snapback.

[Gee4orce]

...or if you are really desperate to preserve a certain page, bookmark it. Then if you crash, just right click on the bookmark folder, and choose 'open in tabs' -> voila, back where you started.

and if you are even more desperate to preserve it, save it as a Web Archive, or print it to PDF.

[Millennium]

It sounds like what you want is Web Devil, or a similar offline-browsing downloader. These specialized apps can do what you want in a way that Safari understands, and give you more control over the process than Safari ever could.

[jindrich]

thx for your replies

i know that when i'm interested in a particular page i could either save it or bookmark it, but what i was referring to is that safari should have something built in to avoid our stupid MISTAKES, like hitting the wrong button or keystroke
And confirm without quitting should be implemented no matter what

i remember when i used wintels at the office, that i could browse offline through the history, including all images, flash movies, etc.
you could even get into the historial folder and save a flash movie to HD, for example.


regarding the time it would take to save many pages at once, i dont know, they're already IN my powerbook, that's probably the reason why camino can save one in about 1 second. i could wait 100 seconds then.

edit: btw, when i wrote "whole saving" i meant to be able to save 100 pages with a single click/menu option

[cybergoober]

Originally Posted by timmerk

What does Safari need? Or rather not need? Remove RSS support!

If you enable the Debug menu then you have the option "Turn Off RSS Support..."

[version]

Originally Posted by jindrich

thx for your replies
t 100 seconds then.

edit: btw, when i wrote "whole saving" i meant to be able to save 100 pages with a single click/menu option

Save your current tabs? Give Saft a go if that's what you're doing. It has a "save browser window" menu. Pretty cool, plus you can have multiple saves.

I couldn't use Safari without it.

[tie]

Yes, I have lost dozens of pages when using Safari. I now use Firefox, it has all these features. (Tiger 10.4 doesn't fix any of these issues.)

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by tie

Yes, I have lost dozens of pages when using Safari. I now use Firefox, it has all these features. (Tiger 10.4 doesn't fix any of these issues.)

Actually, it doesn't have any of them.

1) Firefox doesn't confirm when you want to quit; it confirms when you want to close multiple tabs at once. If all your windows have only one tab apiece, you'll get no confirmation.
2) Undoing closing a tab: this makes no sense from a UI perspective. Closing documents is, and has always been, an inherently irreversible option. If you want to go back, you can use your browser's history; Safari and Firefox both have that.
3) Saving for offline viewing: this is better done with a specialized third-party downloader, such as Web Devil. Actually doing this well is surprisingly complex issue, and browsers don't need to be bloated with that functionality. A separate tool can be dedicated to the task and do it better than an in-browser function, because the developers will be focused only on downloading whole sites and making sure they still work well.

[nforcer]

What Safari needs. TODAY.

Stability. 7 crashes with v2.0 on Tiger within a month, including one where I was writing a lengthly post and had just finished proofreading. The one time I thought I would be okay not using TextEdit and I was bitten badly.

[Randman]

Are you using an plug-ins? Have you deactivated your cache? Do you have AutoFill > Others on? Have you trashed your Safari plist?

7 seems a bit much. I haven't had one crash on Safari on Tiger yet with two Macs.

[Love Calm Quiet]

I'd settle for a simple way to re-program Cmd-Q so that it no longer was a short-cut for QUIT. That'd eliminate the biggest among those hassles for folks like me with clumsy fingers.

[nforcer]

Originally Posted by Randman

Are you using an plug-ins? Have you deactivated your cache? Do you have AutoFill > Others on? Have you trashed your Safari plist?

7 seems a bit much. I haven't had one crash on Safari on Tiger yet with two Macs.

I tried the usual steps (reset safari, empty cache, redo prefs). I do have AutoFill on, but only User names and passwords. I suspect a couple of the crashes were Plugin or Java-related, but for the most part I avoid sites with Java and almost always download movies (wmv or anything quicktime can play) directly to disk before playing.

[nforcer]

Originally Posted by Love Calm Quiet

I'd settle for a simple way to re-program Cmd-Q so that it no longer was a short-cut for QUIT. That'd eliminate the biggest among those hassles for folks like me with clumsy fingers.

You can do that already.

1. System Preferences -> Keyboard & Mouse -> Keyboard Shortcuts.
2. Click "+" button, find and select Safari.
3. Enter Menu Title: "Quit Safari" (or whatever it is if using some other language set).
4. Enter Keyboard Shortcut: whatever you want. You have to hold a modifier key (Command/Option/Control and/or Shift) when typing what you want it to change to.
5. Click "Add".
6. Restart Safari.

[CaptainHaddock]

I've probably had 10-15 Safari crashes since upgrading to Tiger, and I have no hacks installed.

Unfortunately, the automated bug report tool also doesn't work, so Apple probably thinks everything is just fine and dandy with so few crash reports coming in.

[nforcer]

Another thing that just occurred to me beyond stability would be the removal of all the annoying warning messages in Safari 2.0.

• "Are you sure you want to turn on Private Browsing" every time it's turned on.
• Are you sure you want to block pop-up windows?" every time you turn it on from the prefs.
• "'This file' may contain an application... Are you sure you want to download 'this file'?" every time you download any app.

It is moving more and more towards something I would see from Microsoft. "Are you sure you want to move this into the recycle bin?" etc.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by nforcer

Another thing that just occurred to me beyond stability would be the removal of all the annoying warning messages in Safari 2.0.

• "Are you sure you want to turn on Private Browsing" every time it's turned on.
• Are you sure you want to block pop-up windows?" every time you turn it on from the prefs.
• "'This file' may contain an application... Are you sure you want to download 'this file'?" every time you download any app.

It is moving more and more towards something I would see from Microsoft. "Are you sure you want to move this into the recycle bin?" etc.

The third item is by choice. You can elect to have it off or not. As far as the babying, think of it as a necessary evil and more and more people come in from the Windows wastelands with nary a clue .

[Oisín]

Why are you going back and forth all the time? I open a few threads in new tabs, read them, and reload the page.
*
Can't you just look through your history and find what page you were at...?
*
You can also Mark Page for Snapback

Yes, I know I can look through history and find the appropriate page, or mark a page for Snapback. But that's still two or three, in my opinion, unnecessary steps. Plus, Snapback doesn't mean that Safari doesn't reload the page, just that you jump straight back to the page marked for Snapback instead of going through all the intermittent steps. It still takes the same amount of time to load the page as if you go back to it the normal way.

As for the first question: I post on six different forums frequently; say I have fifteen threads that I check regularly on each forum—that would be about 90 tabs open at once. First of all, it would be too much of a hassle even keeping any kind of order in all these (I suppose having one window with multiple tabs for each forum would be an option, but I prefer having each forum in just one tab); second of all, it would make Safari one hell of a memory hog.

Since Safari already have the Snapback function, all I'm really asking is that they make it an option to turn Snapback on as the default method of going back, so that each page is automatically marked for Snapback. That would be neat.

2) Undoing closing a tab: this makes no sense from a UI perspective. Closing documents is, and has always been, an inherently irreversible option. If you want to go back, you can use your browser's history; Safari and Firefox both have that.

I suppose it's true that it's not completely logical from a UI perspective. Then again, as Big Mac said in the second post in this thread, you could argue that web browsers are special cases, since (in this case), technically/theoretically, what you have open in web browsers is not really documents per se. Also, unlike with documents, in web browsers, you jump directly from page to page via links, rather than having to manually open a new document; lots of times, these 'direct jumps' will be done in the same tab as the one you were in before, whereas a new document in a program like Word will open as a 'new window'. When you close a document, it is also customary for programs to ask if you want to save the changes you've made to that document since the last save; web browsers obviously do not have this function, since the content isn't saved in the first place.

Using the history method also has one big disadvantage, which an 'undo close tab' function does not: after you open a new tab and find the page you were at in your history, and open it, the history of the previous tab is not recovered, ie. the page you chose from your history will be opened as a new page, and the road by which you came to that page in the first place will be lost.

[Oisín]

One more little thing that would be nice to have (might be there already, I just can't find it anywhere):

A 'picture properties' for the contextual menus when right-clicking an image. Just one that gives the dimensions and URL of the image would be very nice, so you don't have to cut'n'paste the address to get the URL, and drag-n-drop the image to the desktop to get its dimensions.

If this is already implemented somehow, could someone please direct me to where it is?

[leperkuhn]

if you right click an image and open it in a new tab, the dimensions will be in the title

[Oisín]

Hah, so it does! Can't believe I never noticed that...

Still, it would be nice (and completely consistent in terms of UI), in my opinion, to have a “Get info” point in the menu on the image itself, just like there is for all images (and other file types, and folders) on the desktop or in the Finder.

One more small thing (I'm bitchin' today ):
When closing a tab, it should go back to the tab you were previously in, rather than the tab that's furthest to the right. If I open a link temporarily in a new tab, perhaps just checking something quickly, then I'd like to get back to what I was doing before when I close that new tab again, and not end up in some completely unrelated tab somewhere...

[threestain]

Does anyone else find that since Quicktime 7, playing any mpeg/mov file in the browser freezes up the browser for a few seconds as it loads the plug-in?

Very annoying!

[Randman]

Originally Posted by threestain

Does anyone else find that since Quicktime 7, playing any mpeg/mov file in the browser freezes up the browser for a few seconds as it loads the plug-in?

Very annoying!

No. Do you have QT set to save to cache? Instant playback? What's the size of the cache? The browser speed correct?

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by Oisín

When closing a tab, it should go back to the tab you were previously in, rather than the tab that's furthest to the right. If I open a link temporarily in a new tab, perhaps just checking something quickly, then I'd like to get back to what I was doing before when I close that new tab again, and not end up in some completely unrelated tab somewhere...

I think that one's been debated for a while. There are pros and cons to both approaches.

[threestain]

My quicktime is set to save to cache, with a 100mb cache and play movies automatically. Its on medium time play (midway between immediate and short delay), and automatic browser speed.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by lavar78

I think that one's been debated for a while. There are pros and cons to both approaches.

Could you list me some pros, then? 'Cause I can't think of any...

[tie]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Actually, it doesn't have any of them.

1) Firefox doesn't confirm when you want to quit; it confirms when you want to close multiple tabs at once. If all your windows have only one tab apiece, you'll get no confirmation.
2) Undoing closing a tab: this makes no sense from a UI perspective. Closing documents is, and has always been, an inherently irreversible option. If you want to go back, you can use your browser's history; Safari and Firefox both have that.
3) Saving for offline viewing: this is better done with a specialized third-party downloader, such as Web Devil. Actually doing this well is surprisingly complex issue, and browsers don't need to be bloated with that functionality. A separate tool can be dedicated to the task and do it better than an in-browser function, because the developers will be focused only on downloading whole sites and making sure they still work well.

You're right, it doesn't have number two. Number three (saving pages) comes with an extension ScrapBook. I'd never noticed your caveat to number one.

I actually misunderstood what the OP meant by number three. I was thinking Safari should remember what pages are in what tabs when it quits, and it reopens them (by URL) when it reopens. Again a Firefox extension. This isn't terribly necessary, but it helps with that slight paranoia that sets in when I have fifty tabs open and I'll never be able to find the pages again if I lose them.

A random feature I would like is the ability to reorganize tabs (by say dragging them around). Then I could keep, e.g., the tabs from site A in the first half, and the tabs in site B in the second half. Or if there are too many tabs for site B, drag them somehow to make a new window. I'd probably spend too much time organizing things with this feature, but there are some cases where it is extremely useful.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by Oisín

Could you list me some pros, then? 'Cause I can't think of any...

When I read this forum, I open several threads at a time by Cmd-clicking. Then I read the first thread and close the tab when I'm done. I'd much rather have Safari go to the tab on the right (the next one I haven't read) rather than back to the one on the left.

[Oisín]

Yeah, I suppose if you read the forums in that way, it works pretty well...

I just can't stand opening threads in new tabs, unless they're old threads linked to in a new thread; then, for some reason, I always do it.