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His Dudeness · Jun 27, 2005, 04:30 PM

I'm bored with this thread. You people kill me. I guess an intelligent conversation is asking way too much for the ilk on the MacNN forums.

Railroader · Jun 27, 2005, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by His Dudeness

This thread isn't what I was hoping for. I said I didn't want liberal tree huggers and anti-SUV zealots bitching about them because of poor gas mileage...

Does anyone know anything about the Hummer?

Sorry, unless I have something to add about the H3 I'll stay out of this thread.

Rob and cifer can balle all their anti-SUV gobledeegook without response from me in this thread.

powertrippin · Jun 27, 2005, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

You found a book that gives you more reason to hate SUVs. Feeds your jealousy.

Why do you think I'm jealous? I HATE SUVS you ****ing nimrod. Is that so hard to comprehend? Is it so hard to understand that I hate big ****ing vehicles that you can't see around, not using their signals because they're too busy swerving around while yapping on a cell phone? Do you realize how many times I've almost been into an accident thanks to some ****ing moron (probably about as smart as yourself mr factory worker! Yeah! Mayon! Budweiser! Woo!) not paying attention?

What about the Germans? Aren't they the ones to blame for the yearning to eat cheap chickens? So, are you admitting you lied when you said it was auto unions?

No. You misunderstood. Read the book to find out more.

ou can't even keep your oath not to come onto the Lounge. Like I am going to believe you are going to send me a book... pshaw!

Pot, meet kettle. You also said the same thing. And lied.

You must not read major news publications. When the book came out there were many articles stating how the facts were skewed and some outright lies stated as facts.

Back it up. I've never seen anything like that. Surely with google and your vast intellect you can find some evidence.

Not the UAW. And I don't know of any auto unions than that one. Tbla bla bla

Talk to FyrForce. He used to post at these forums, and he's an automotive engineer who used to work at GM. He'll give you plenty of stories.

Because GM is at the top of the list and damn near tied with Honda.

powertrippin · Jun 27, 2005, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by His Dudeness

I'm bored with this thread. You people kill me. I guess an intelligent conversation is asking way too much for the ilk on the MacNN forums.

Sorry we aren't talking about football, baseball, or basketball, assmunch. Maybe sometime I'll try to convert this whole thread to sports terminology for you.

ink · Jun 27, 2005, 04:37 PM

Note: Not a tree-hugger, I even own a 1996 Explorer which has never given me an ounce of grief (I also own a TDI golf that gets almost 50mpg as my commuter vehicle)

In my buddy's apartment complex, one of the tennants has an H2. The tires have been slashed (all four) three times this year already. Hopefully you have a safe place to park it, if you buy it.

powertrippin · Jun 27, 2005, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

without response from me in this thread.

Railroader · Jun 27, 2005, 04:50 PM

Did a little research on the H3 engine. It's the 3500 inline-L5 engine. I think it is assembled in Flint at the Flint Sout Powertrain plant. We make the inline-L6 engine's camshaft which is nearly identical to the L5's with a single cylinder chopped off. It is an excellent engine with a lot of torque for only 5 cylinders (225 Ft. Lb.) It will get a little over 20 MPG on the highway and around 16-17 in the city. The L5 is built with extremely new manufacturing machinery in a brand new plant. The tolerances are extremely tight. I have been thinking of getting a Chevrolet Colorado pick-up with the L5 engine for those very reasons.

jasonsRX7 · Jun 27, 2005, 04:57 PM

The H3 only has a 4500lb max towing capacity, though. Pretty disappointing from that standpoint, considering a Sport Trac could out tow it (based on the numbers, anyway) with the same gas mileage.

CreepingDeth · Jun 27, 2005, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by powertrippin

Sorry we aren't talking about football, baseball, or basketball, assmunch. Maybe sometime I'll try to convert this whole thread to sports terminology for you.

Please turn the condescension knob down a tad. I'm not the biggest sports freak, but I don't talk down to people because they love it. Good for them. Do what you please, but don't act like you're better than them.

Without saying '****ing moron' a billion times, can someone tell me how much a real Humvee goes for? I've always wondered how much a real one is compared to a Hummer look-alike.

Railroader · Jun 27, 2005, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by CreepingDeth

Without saying '****ing moron' a billion times, can someone tell me how much a real Humvee goes for? I've always wondered how much a real one is compared to a Hummer look-alike.

A top of the line H1 will be about $115,000

A top of the line H2 will be about $61,000

And a top of the line H3 will be about $38,000

****ing moron.

Couldn't restrain myself. Sorry.

CreepingDeth · Jun 27, 2005, 05:14 PM

Now, how much will a real one cost, as in army surplus?

powertrippin · Jun 27, 2005, 05:16 PM

I think it was 50-70k somewhere. I got to ride in one for a while, one of the civilian H1s, basically the military version with leather.... surprisingly soft ride, but man.... what a beast. I couldn't imagine driving it anywhere in the city due to how WIDE it is.

CreepingDeth · Jun 27, 2005, 05:19 PM

Actually, that's not a bad price. For something that big, does it have that much room? I've never been in a Hummer, so I really don't know.

powertrippin · Jun 27, 2005, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by CreepingDeth

Actually, that's not a bad price. For something that big, does it have that much room? I've never been in a Hummer, so I really don't know.

No. The driver and passenger sit very far apart thanks to the huge transmission tunnel inbetween them. It's not designed for civilians, and it shows. Very poor ergonomics, and... it just sucks as transportation ON the road. Off the road, however, the Hummer is supposedly pretty incredible.... my train of thought is that a wrangler would be better, since it's smaller...but... whatever.

CreepingDeth · Jun 27, 2005, 06:41 PM

How much is the optional rear gun mount? Does it come with a DVD player?

rambo47 · Jun 27, 2005, 07:07 PM

My H1 was fabulous in any bad weather. Snow, rain, whatever. But the best thing about is was intimidating wussy neon drivers. They'd practically sh1t themselves whenever I pulled up near them.

And off-road is where is really shined. Any rough terrain was handled like a mere dirt road, plus it had enough room to tote camping supplies for a week into the outback.

Problem was getting around town and parking. In the end it had to go. Just not practical. But I'm definitely taking a good look at the FJ when they're out.

Paco500 · 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by His Dudeness

Meathead? No need to make it personal, you *** dumpster. I'm a HUGE Tar Heel fan. Because I was born there. I also like things like the Hummer, because I used to own a Jeep that I DID take off road and get muddy. And your civic mindedness isn't saving the whole world from Holocaust.

Perhaps you did not realize you made it personal. I will forgive your ignorance and apologize for my reply in kind. No my civic mindedness alone will not save anything of substance, but if enough people start thinking about others and the world around them, together we may save the world from a holocaust of apathy.

Originally Posted by His Dudeness

Oh and that remark about me being completely oblivious... Oblivious to what? What do you do for this country besides criticize what other people drive because of your civic mindedness mentality thinks that what other people drive is going to kill everyone?

What do I do for my country? If you are as you implied serving ours in uniform, than I applaud you for putting your life on the line for me and my family's safety. If you and others like you insist on driving destructive vehicles so you can "get muddy" from time to time, then the good work you are doing is fading towards meaningless. SUV's do not kill everyone, but they kill some. More than most cars. That sucks.

tie · Jun 27, 2005, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by rambo47

But the best thing about is was intimidating wussy neon drivers. They'd practically sh1t themselves whenever I pulled up near them.

I hope you tailgate them on the freeway. I bet it just freaks the poor suckers out, knowing that if they break you'll slam right into them and kill their kids without hardly noticing. LOL,

You do realize that this is why people hate SUVs. It's not the cars so much as the people who drive them, anti-social people who'd love a car just to annoy or intimidate everyone else.

rambo47 · Jun 27, 2005, 07:58 PM

Just pulling up along side them was enough to do it.

powertrippin · Jun 27, 2005, 08:02 PM

Hey Rambo, I got an email about penis enlargment, want me to forward them to you?

jasonsRX7 · Jun 27, 2005, 08:36 PM

Just based on the specs, buying an H3 seems like buying inflatable muscles. For ~35k you could easily buy an SUV that actually does what the H3 merely looks like it should do. Other than bearing a resemblance to its more capable siblings, what does the H3 offer? I'm not seeing it.

powertrippin · Jun 27, 2005, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

Just based on the specs, buying an H3 seems like buying inflatable muscles. For ~35k you could easily buy an SUV that actually does what the H3 merely looks like it should do. Other than bearing a resemblance to its more capable siblings, what does the H3 offer? I'm not seeing it.

The H2 is anything but capable. It's basically a suburban with a LOT of extra weight to get around the gas guzzler regulations. This extra weight and girth comes in handy when.... no... wait... actually all that extra weight sucks for pretty much everything. Example here:

http://content.collegehumor.com/medi.../hummerbad.wmv

powertrippin · Jun 27, 2005, 11:42 PM

I'm dressed as Frank from Donnie Darko, and my friend is dressed as a coal miner. A few seconds later he threw his 44oz big gulp cup at us.

Railroader · Jun 27, 2005, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

Just based on the specs, buying an H3 seems like buying inflatable muscles. For ~35k you could easily buy an SUV that actually does what the H3 merely looks like it should do. Other than bearing a resemblance to its more capable siblings, what does the H3 offer? I'm not seeing it.

It is more capable than most vehicles in it's class.

9.1-inches of ground clearance
A 25-degree breakover angle with the optional 33-inch tires
A 40-degree approach angle
A 37-degree departure angle
Ability to ford 16 inches of water at 20 mph
Ability to ford 24 inches of water at 5 mph
Ability to climb a 16-inch vertical step or rock

Cipher13 · Jun 28, 2005, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Paco500

I think SUV's should just be taxed into oblivion. Maybe then car makers could come up with something that meets the needs of people without them being these monsters. I agree that for towing and hauling people, there's not much choice.

Jet Ski's? Deadly, annoying, and, in the two stroke variety, polluting. Also fun as hell. But any idiot can ride one, so people do dumb things. They also should be heavily taxed and operators should need a licenses. Nobody should be able to do 50MPH on land or sea without some training.

Pleasure boats? Maybe it's a double standard, but I don't have a big issue with them. The cost and regulations present a high enough bar to entry to keep most yahoos away, unlike jet ski's (or, more appropriately, personal water craft).

4-wheelers and snowmobiles should face the same restrictions as JetSki's in my book, and be kept off public land.

Big engines? Gas prices and new technologies should be helping in this regard.

Dishwashers and space heaters? WTF? That's just silly.

No, they shouldn't be taxed into oblivion. That wouldn't be inhibitive. They're already excessively expensive (in Australia anyway), and the fuel cost basically works like a tax. That would accomplish nothing but further punish those with legitimate uses for them.

Originally Posted by Railroader

OK Rob, see this is where you prove how you don't realize how stupid you are. I was parodying his post. He rephrased my post to say something I had no intention of saying so I did the same to him. I was only treating him as he treated others. Are you too stupid to realize that? Memory span to short to keep it all in context? Reading comprehension skills near zero?

Yeah, but you didn't do a very good job. Heh. Read my response. Nice work.

Originally Posted by Railroader

You did it to me. I thought you'd like me doing it to you.

HA HA HA HA!!!

Err, but what was your point? I already said exactly what you tried to make me say.

You're an idiot. Go away.

Paco500 · Jun 28, 2005, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by Cipher13

No, they shouldn't be taxed into oblivion. That wouldn't be inhibitive. They're already excessively expensive (in Australia anyway), and the fuel cost basically works like a tax. That would accomplish nothing but further punish those with legitimate uses for them.

It is my contention that there are very few legitimate uses for monster SUV's that could not be accomplished by an alternative vehicle if the industry wanted to. The big one that comes to mind is towing capacity + passenger/cargo space. I'm not sure what would work, but a beefed up Station Wagon with AWD may fit the bill. It's a shame that to get that combination you have to buy a gas-guzzling death machine. I'm sure most folks with legitimate uses would love a more reasonable alternative.

And legitimate use should not include painting your H2 with tiger stripes and advertising your karate studio. We seem to have a lot of those around here.

Paco500 · Jun 28, 2005, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

It is more capable than most vehicles in it's class.

9.1-inches of ground clearance
A 25-degree breakover angle with the optional 33-inch tires
A 40-degree approach angle
A 37-degree departure angle
Ability to ford 16 inches of water at 20 mph
Ability to ford 24 inches of water at 5 mph
Ability to climb a 16-inch vertical step or rock

And a big heapin' helpin' of just plain stupid.

jasonsRX7 · Jun 28, 2005, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

It is more capable than most vehicles in it's class. -snip figures-

But seeing as how a Jeep Liberty comes so close to those specs, and can exceed it in towing capacity, I'd still feel short changed with the H3. If you were serious about taking it off road, you wouldn't want to get shown up by someone in a Liberty with a few cheap mods. If you didn't care about going off road, seating and towing capacity would be more important, and the H3 falls way short there.

Railroader · Jun 28, 2005, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by Paco500

And a big heapin' helpin' of just plain stupid.

Great contribution to the thread! Idiot.

Railroader · Jun 28, 2005, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

But seeing as how a Jeep Liberty comes so close to those specs, and can exceed it in towing capacity, I'd still feel short changed with the H3. If you were serious about taking it off road, you wouldn't want to get shown up by someone in a Liberty with a few cheap mods. If you didn't care about going off road, seating and towing capacity would be more important, and the H3 falls way short there.

A jeep liberty only beats the ground clearance spec by .3 inchesand the towing by 500 lbs. Everything else the H3 is superior. The H3 is only about $2k more for a similarly equipped Jeep. And yet the H3 has more options that aren't even available on a Liberty.

The Liberty is nice, don't get me wrong. But for the $2k you get a slightly agile and better specced out SUV. Plus, only women drive Libertys. I have yet to see a guy drive one.

jasonsRX7 · Jun 28, 2005, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Plus, only women drive Libertys. I have yet to see a guy drive one.

Agreed on that, a guy would buy a Wrangler. I made the Liberty comparison because of the more comparable interior room.

Cipher13 · Jun 28, 2005, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Plus, only women drive Libertys. I have yet to see a guy drive one.

...somebody feeling insecure?

powertrippin · Jun 28, 2005, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Plus, only women drive Libertys. I have yet to see a guy drive one.

The truth comes out...

Is somebody feeling insecure?

powertrippin · Jun 28, 2005, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by Cipher13

...somebody feeling insecure?

Bhahahahahaha great minds, dude.

jasonsRX7 · Jun 28, 2005, 01:38 AM

Can't say that I've seen a guy driving a Liberty either. Although I think that's just because most guys in the market for a Jeep would go for the configurability of a Wrangler or the size of a Cherokee over the Liberty. Off road capabilities aside, I'd take an Escape Hybrid over a Liberty, in that size range.

Railroader · 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by Cipher13

...somebody feeling insecure?

Originally Posted by powertrippin

The truth comes out...

Is somebody feeling insecure?

Echo... echo...

Um... no. I drive a Cavalier remember?

I'm not the one obsessed with the length of a man's penis. But you sure are as your obsession with stating that that all SUV drivers are making up for having short dicks.

I own a Cavalier. I guess according to your obsessions I must have a whopper eh?

EDIT: DAMMIT! I bit the flame bait. O.K., I'll just have to try harder to avoid it. Sorry everyone.

His Dudeness · Jun 28, 2005, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

A jeep liberty only beats the ground clearance spec by .3 inchesand the towing by 500 lbs. Everything else the H3 is superior. The H3 is only about $2k more for a similarly equipped Jeep. And yet the H3 has more options that aren't even available on a Liberty.

The Liberty is nice, don't get me wrong. But for the $2k you get a slightly agile and better specced out SUV. Plus, only women drive Libertys. I have yet to see a guy drive one.

I once had a Jeep Liberty. The Judge and the jury decided that it was a LEMON.

powertrippin · Jun 28, 2005, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by His Dudeness

I once had a Jeep Liberty. The Judge and the jury decided that it was a LEMON.

Sucks. Hummer was on the bottom of the initial problem ratings a year or so back. I'd think a liberty would be a much more reliable vehicle, based on the ratings.

His Dudeness · Jun 28, 2005, 04:55 AM

I find that hard to believe. The Liberty we used to have had the engine blow up on the highway on the way home from the shipyards. They wouldn't put a new engine in their because it was "too expensive"... I told them: new engine or see you in court. So they decided to repair the engine. I decided to see them in court. It cost them a hell of a lot more than a new engine.

Paco500 · Jun 28, 2005, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Great contribution to the thread! Idiot.

You are slowly winning me over to Jesus, Kilby! Keep letting his light shine!

powertrippin · Jun 28, 2005, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by His Dudeness

I find that hard to believe. The Liberty we used to have had the engine blow up on the highway on the way home from the shipyards. They wouldn't put a new engine in their because it was "too expensive"... I told them: new engine or see you in court. So they decided to repair the engine. I decided to see them in court. It cost them a hell of a lot more than a new engine.

I find that hard to believe. Either you aren't telling the whole story, or your dealer isn't. I'm assuming the thing was under warranty since they're fairly new...

Railroader · Jun 28, 2005, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Paco500

You are slowly winning me over to Jesus, Kilby! Keep letting his light shine!

Sorry, I am only talking about H3s in this thread.

Why don't you explain your oh so intelligent response?

Paco500 · Jun 28, 2005, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Sorry, I am only talking about H3s in this thread.

Why don't you explain your oh so intelligent response?

What intelligent response would you like me to explain? The heapin' helpin' comment? Well, as has been stated before, it's a woosified version of a woosified version of an obscene passenger vehicle. Hummer sales are on the decline (to be fair, I think most all GM cars are, so it may not be a Hummer thing) because most of the country has woken up to the silliness and moved on.

As for the Jesus comment? I think you can noodle that one through.

WWJD- What would Jesus do?
WWJD- What would Jesus drive?

powertrippin · Jun 28, 2005, 10:59 AM

I don't think Jesus would be in an SUV, and he'd definitely smite anybody who didn't use signals. Plus, I don't think he'd even be in a GM. I mean, I could see Jesus blinging it out in a benz or something, but not a chevy.

jokell82 · Jun 28, 2005, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Paco500

It is my contention that there are very few legitimate uses for monster SUV's that could not be accomplished by an alternative vehicle if the industry wanted to. The big one that comes to mind is towing capacity + passenger/cargo space. I'm not sure what would work, but a beefed up Station Wagon with AWD may fit the bill.

There's that new Dodge station wagon that could probably handle all that. The Magnum I think?

residentEvil · Jun 28, 2005, 11:39 AM

the magnum won't/isn't selling. even with the one with rear window, you can't see out of it. i've driven one on several occasions and it is one big blind spot. while it is fun to drive, it won't be usefull for towing.

powertrippin · Jun 28, 2005, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by residentEvil

the magnum won't/isn't selling. even with the one with rear window, you can't see out of it. i've driven one on several occasions and it is one big blind spot. while it is fun to drive, it won't be usefull for towing.

I've heard otherwise. I see them all over Milwaukee, and like half of them are modded with exhausts and rims and everything. Pretty crazy that people buy a brand new car and mod it right away.

residentEvil · Jun 28, 2005, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by powertrippin

I've heard otherwise. I see them all over Milwaukee, and like half of them are modded with exhausts and rims and everything. Pretty crazy that people buy a brand new car and mod it right away.

YMMV but my source is from the Chrysler complaint stats department. I helped write the MySQL script to extract data out of it

(we were looking for VINs of those who hadn't brought in their Durango's for a recall but were complaining of problems, but I wanted to find out how 'happy' magnum drivers where).

His Dudeness · Jun 28, 2005, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by powertrippin

I find that hard to believe. Either you aren't telling the whole story, or your dealer isn't. I'm assuming the thing was under warranty since they're fairly new...

Yeah, I made the whole thing up. I really wasn't in court with a lawyer who wrote the Lemon Law in Virginia...

His Dudeness · Jun 28, 2005, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by residentEvil

the magnum won't/isn't selling. even with the one with rear window, you can't see out of it. i've driven one on several occasions and it is one big blind spot. while it is fun to drive, it won't be usefull for towing.

That's what I drive now. It's selling pretty well, not as well as the 300/300C. And the new Charger can't stay on the lots.