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iREZ · Jul 5, 2005, 05:44 PM

i love the guy's music...but statements like this make me question why musicians are taken seriously in the first place. having an ear for music doesn't make you an intelligent guy and if the statement is true...kanye west is a prime example. i also find it hilarious that he's sing a song with a hook "diamonds are forever" with all the diamond miners dying in africa everyday due to black lung and terrible work conditions. maybe he should go back to school along with 90% of all other celebrities before speaking his mind to the public.

:rant over:

toneloco28 · Jul 5, 2005, 06:29 PM

Uhhh....Have you actually listened to the lyrics in the song "Diamonds Are Forever". I'm just asking because he is explicitly talking about the ramifications of people wearing diamonds, and what persons in Africa have to go through in order for us to shine.

No offense intended. I was just wondering.

budster101 · Jul 5, 2005, 06:34 PM

You listened to teh words? Oh my...

Chuckit · Jul 5, 2005, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by toneloco28

Uhhh....Have you actually listened to the lyrics in the song "Diamonds Are Forever". I'm just asking because he is explicitly talking about the ramifications of people wearing diamonds, and what persons in Africa have to go through in order for us to shine.

I looked up the lyrics, and I don't even see a veiled reference to Africa. Could you point out where he explicitly says this?

toneloco28 · Jul 5, 2005, 07:38 PM

Yeah my bad. There's two version's of the song. The remix is the one which deals with what i was referring to.Here is the lyrics for that particular song. You can ignore Jay-Z's self-indulgent braggadocio...lol.

Kerrigan · Jul 5, 2005, 11:24 PM

Conservative talk radio is quite scary. I don't know why people even listen to Rush Limbaugh blathering on about how he knows everything. Once I tuned into his radio program and he was talking about how he went to McDonalds, paid for his food with a hundred dollar bill, told the kid to keep the change, and then freaked out because the kid was afraid to keep his $90 in change. He is so out of touch with reality that it isn't funny. Does he even realise that to these working class people with "McJobs", $90 is nearly a week's worth of wages?

budster101 · Jul 5, 2005, 11:29 PM

Did I open the door to a political debate? I didn't mean to do so by mentioning TWO talk radio shows that have political commentary. Weather you like them or not, this is not the issue of the thread, what is the issue is, how their words affect you. You have helped to prove my point. They are entertainers, and it is up to you weather you listen all the time or occasionally, but either way, the words they use do affect your thoughts and feelings. This is only too obvious.

They use hot button issues to inspire a response from you.

The reasoning behind my bringing up these hosts were to prove that lyrics in songs affect the listener.

Done.

Kerrigan · Jul 5, 2005, 11:35 PM

Did I open the door to a political debate?

Yes. You brought up Rush Limbaugh in a thread about race... how much more political does it get??

As for lyrics in a song, I would agree that they probably do affect people, if they are actively listening to the song. People form extraordinarily close connections with musical artists (just look at the Beatles and their legions of followers, or Elvis and his 4 billion fans). People who admire a singer and hang on his every word are undoubtably affected by lyrics.

West probably has quite a few fans now who are thinking to themselves, "Hmm, maybe white people did create AIDS to kill blacks".

budster101 · Jul 5, 2005, 11:43 PM

The topic I was replying to was lyrics and who listens / how they affect you. I asked the person if they thought lyrics didn't affect them then did it cross over to speech and talk radio shows?

The comparison was not about race. Read the thread, and the post where I replied in this regard.
You are being purposely disingenuous. Not political at all, no matter how you attempt to assert otherwise.

chris v · Jul 6, 2005, 08:02 AM

This thread just keeps on giving. The comparison is specious. It is possible to listen to music without paying overt attention to the lyrics. It's hard to listen to Rush Limbaugh without paying attention to the lyrics, because he's acapella.

I have 2 Radiohead albums, and I have no idea what they're blathering on about on either of them. When you remove the lyrics from Rush Limbaugh, you've got nothing but dead, hot air.

OMG I am arguing on the internet. Now we can move on to arguing about arguing on the internet!

lavar78 · Jul 6, 2005, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by chris v

It is possible to listen to music without paying overt attention to the lyrics.

For example: "99 Luftballoons" and "Rock Me Amadeus" were big here even though most people couldn't understand the words.

CreepingDeth · Jul 6, 2005, 11:20 AM

What a twit.
Can someone show me how his lyrics are racist though? Not that I like rap or anything (in fact, I absolutely hate it), but I'd actually like someone to show me racism in somewhere other that his little rant. (Not that I doubt the presence of over pro-black lyrics in rap)

budster101 · Jul 6, 2005, 11:34 AM

So, this one rant is all you think there is to it? He gets up in front of thousands and says this confidently, and you don't think he's a racist, but for this one time?

You going to give everyone a one-time pass now huh?

What if Bush said that but in reverse? Would he get a pass from you? Would any politician?
If it's a black musician though, it's ok maybe?

Just because he doesn't rant racism necessarily in his lyrics doesn't mean he ins't a racist. Of course, he may just be a retarded POS jerk moron...

sek929 · Jul 6, 2005, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by chris v

Fücking wow, is all. Just... wow. Nice going, dude.

I'll second that.

CreepingDeth · Jul 6, 2005, 12:15 PM

No budster, just show me the lyrics that are racist.

sek929 · Jul 6, 2005, 12:15 PM

I like the Kayne West album quite a bit. Its certainly one of the better Hip Hop (not "rap" for all you ignorant African American music haters

) albums out in the last few years. That was an ignorant thing to say that the white man created AIDs (maybe we created Polio too!) but his lyrics are well written, rymed, and carry the usual message of black oppresion, you may think its BS budster but I bet your not black.

budster101 · Jul 6, 2005, 12:17 PM

When did I say ever his lyrics were bad, racist or otherwise?

You are confusing me with someone else.

CreepingDeth · Jul 6, 2005, 12:22 PM

I don't know. Maybe I'm tired of the disgustingly obscene lyrics and repetitive sample loops. Or maybe I'm tired of this narcissistic 'I'm a victim, let me bitch and do nothing' attitude I hear alot.

Anyone remember that MadTV sketch where the black businessman turned out to be an old rapper from the 80's. Anyone notice that if you switch the references of 'black' and 'white', it would seem totally racist?

sek929 · Jul 6, 2005, 12:23 PM

Yo, my B. Must've hallucinated a little bit there...

budster101 · Jul 6, 2005, 12:38 PM

sok, bro. I got yo back. How'bout a 40?

Y3a · Jul 6, 2005, 12:42 PM

Conservative talk radio is quite scary.
(OPINION STATED AS FACT)

I don't know why people even listen to Rush Limbaugh blathering on about how he knows everything.
(Questionable assumptions stated as fact)

Once I tuned into his radio program and he was talking about how he went to McDonalds, paid for his food with a hundred dollar bill, told the kid to keep the change, and then freaked out because the kid was afraid to keep his $90 in change.
(ONCE??)

He is so out of touch with reality that it isn't funny.
(OPINION STATED AS FACT)

Does he even realise that to these working class people with "McJobs",
$90 is nearly a week's worth of wages?
(he probably does)
"Working Class" ??? How about 'Barely working class'

funkboy · Jul 6, 2005, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

There's a difference between being interesting and being a good topic for discussion. You pretty well covered what you were talking about (that Kanye West has a skewed view of education that he's trying to peddle to his fans). I agreed and didn't really have anything to add. What kind of "notice" were you expecting?

The kind of notice is simply the kind of notice any other post gets - some answers or responses signifying someone read it and had a thought related to it. Either a "Good job!" or "You know, that's not so wrong." It's the same reason any of us contribute in discussion boards like this.
(notice I put your reply first, in hopes that you see it and I stimulate further discussion)

Originally Posted by lavar78

For example: "99 Luftballoons" and "Rock Me Amadeus" were big here even though most people couldn't understand the words.

And one of them somewhat political, correct? I'm guessing Rock Me Amadeus wasn't all that political though...

Originally Posted by chris v

I was just mildly chagrinned that you'd taken him seriously enough to actually write up a fun, fact-filled informative, non-biased post. You seem capable of so much more.

Thanks for the kind words, I'll try harder next time

Originally Posted by chris v

OMG I am arguing on the internet. Now we can move on to arguing about arguing on the internet!

That was already done in this thread.

rambo47 · Jul 6, 2005, 09:14 PM

If Kayne West was a redneck:

iREZ · Jul 7, 2005, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by toneloco28

Uhhh....Have you actually listened to the lyrics in the song "Diamonds Are Forever". I'm just asking because he is explicitly talking about the ramifications of people wearing diamonds, and what persons in Africa have to go through in order for us to shine.

No offense intended. I was just wondering.

yeah i know bout the lyrics for both songs, but he chose to sing the regular version at live8 which makes no sense, no offense taken.

by the way just saw the video of diamonds and i gotta say that it'd be much better with the remix vs the pop topper.

toneloco28 · Jul 7, 2005, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by iREZ

yeah i know bout the lyrics for both songs, but he chose to sing the regular version at live8 which makes no sense, no offense taken.

by the way just saw the video of diamonds and i gotta say that it'd be much better with the remix vs the pop topper.

Point taken. I agree wholeheartedly.

mrgaskell · Jul 7, 2005, 06:05 PM

The reason why many groups like Jews, Homosexuals, and such can "make it" is because they can blend in if they want. It is much harder to identify sub-sections of the white "race" than it is to identify a African-American.

And it isn't just blacks who live in poverty. There are more whites (see "Poor White Trash") living in poverty than blacks and crime is an socioeconomic phenomenom, not a racial one. Wherever there is poverty and little opportunity there will be drug and alcohol abuse. Where there are drugs and alcohol and poverty there is crime as they have to finance their habits. Doesn't matter if it is a Jewish ghetto in Europe, the 'hood, the bario, or the trailer park, it is always the same. Same stories, just different faces.

Chuckit · Jul 7, 2005, 06:24 PM

Huh? Either blacks are being held down because people can easily tell they're black or blacks are not held down more than anyone else. It can't be both.

mrgaskell · Jul 8, 2005, 03:15 AM

It isn't a matter of being "held down" it is a matter of discrimination, or at least being able to blend in and not be targeted for hatred and discrimination.

The second paragraph is more along the lines of "if you are poor, then you are probably dealing with lots of drugs are crime regardless of your race or ethinicity. It is a green thang instead of a black, brown or white thang.

An earlier poster had basically said black people are more inclined to a life of crime or at least attract that element. I say it is because of poverty, not race, that causes almost any environment from rural to suburban to urban that is poor to have these qualities.

CreepingDeth · Jul 8, 2005, 07:43 AM

You're only held down by your attitude. Period.

Warung · Jul 8, 2005, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by CreepingDeth

You're only held down by your attitude. Period.

Yes, because institutionalized racism, prejudice and slavery never existed.

Socio-economic conditions are always a highly determining factor in regards to a person's societal development.

People can be "impeded" by many different things...just as there are other circumstances which can highly increase a person's chances.

Warung · Jul 8, 2005, 08:20 AM

Back on topic, - has anybody posted a link to the original article, stating that "the white man brought AIDS to Africa"?

Did he even say that?

skelotar · Jul 8, 2005, 10:54 AM

Huh? Either blacks are being held down because people can easily tell they're black or blacks are not held down more than anyone else. It can't be both.

You're only held down by your attitude. Period.

I hope you both are doing well socially and economically. If you're not "black" then you wouldn't understand. If you dont' have anything to contribute to the solution, simply move along.

I expected this thread to blow up and become a huge n-word flinging fest, because I know there's a lot of inherent racism deeply sewn into the fabric of this great country we call America. I'd like to say that, for this being a public forum, more than mostly made up of white males, you all have really shown me that there is a very compassionate and rational side of humanity. Being that we're on the internet, we're hidden by our screen names and the false sense of security that the wild wild net provides us.

Despite a small minority of uninformed posters, I really applaud the whole of the group for their insight and contributions.