[zacharie]

Are new Al Powerbooks all made in China - I mean mainland China - or are they still being built in Taiwan?
Mine, a 1.3 Ghz Al 15 bought 3 monthg ago, is already gone for repair due to a faulty Combo drive. However my 667 Ghz Tibook old, and mistreated everyday and built in Taiwan works well like its first days.
Is there any correlation between 'Made in China' and bad quality. I would subjectively and definitely say 'YES'.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by zacharie

Is there any correlation between 'Made in China' and bad quality. I would subjectively and definitely say 'YES'.

Why would you say that?

[ibook_steve]

Your statements are really quite obnoxious and rude. I worked extensively with the folks first in Taiwan and then when we moved operations over to China. Many of them were the same people. They work really, really hard. Bad parts are always a possibility. Don't go blaming the country or the people.

Steve

[ericssonboi]

Originally Posted by zacharie

Are new Al Powerbooks all made in China - I mean mainland China - or are they still being built in Taiwan?
Mine, a 1.3 Ghz Al 15 bought 3 monthg ago, is already gone for repair due to a faulty Combo drive. However my 667 Ghz Tibook old, and mistreated everyday and built in Taiwan works well like its first days.
Is there any correlation between 'Made in China' and bad quality. I would subjectively and definitely say 'YES'.

I'm sure lot of people are bias against China.. but are you telling me everything that comes out of the US is perfect? So when you buy car that was made in a plant in USA or the BMW made in Germany, it won't have a breakdown down the road?

Like ibook_steve mentioned:
Bad parts are always a possibility. Don't go blaming the country or the people.

[Ω]

Gee my 667 TiBook (Made in Taiwan) has had the combo drive replaced, 3 screens, a cracked hinge, the base replaced because of paint issues. The only left which is original is the ogic board and the HD.

Give me one from China anyday

[zacharie]

Obviously folks, you stay confined within the boundaries of the US of A. Come and see what happens in the EU with delocalizations, agreements on WTO and quotas on textiles. Come and see the overall quality of chinese products invading our markets. Then if I blame Chinese products, it's based on my own knowledge. I invite you to observe the retailing markets and compare chinese made products with others, build with a knowledge of quality control policy. Besides, don't blame me for disliking chinese product. I can't stand a country which invaded Tibet and ruined its spiritual richness, corrupted its people in their so called economic revolution, for the only sake of the richness of their soil: oil and natural gaz. My post is only intended to remark that too many products coming from China are far from attaining their general 'end of life' process time before their theoretical, probalistic value. That is all.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by zacharie

Obviously folks, you stay confined within the boundaries of the US of A.

Obviously, you have no clue and stay confined within the boundaries of your limited knowledge of world affairs. But I'll play along. I'm an American who works in SE Asia. Have you been to Asia? I have. As well as Australia, Europe, the Middle East and North America. All of them. Frequently.

Originally Posted by zacharie

My post is only intended to remark that too many products coming from China are far from attaining their general 'end of life' process time before their theoretical, probalistic value.

Again, without any facts.

[Alezone]

Originally Posted by zacharie

Is there any correlation between 'Made in China' and bad quality. I would subjectively and definitely say 'YES'.

I need to say NO. you can blame Apple. not where it's made.

Edit: and the combo drive is not made in China, correct me if i'm wrong.



and you're going political.

[zacharie]

[QUOTE=Randman]Obviously, you have no clue and stay confined within the boundaries of your limited knowledge of world affairs. But I'll play along. I'm an American who works in SE Asia. Have you been to Asia? I have. As well as Australia, Europe, the Middle East and North America. All of them. Frequently.

Yes sir, I've been to Asia and was born there. I live in Europe, and like you, travelled the world numerous times. As for my limited knowledge of world affairs. I don't feel the need to discuss my CV and experience with you. It's a complete waste of time.

And if you need facts, I invite you to compare products on the market, just like any consumer would do. Go to a retail store, look at shoes, sweaters, shirrts and your dear Gap garments made in China and just compare

The sun does not shine out of your arse because you think you're above the average world businessman. You take things too seriously. 'I' is not good, wipe the ego.

What a bunch of myseryguts!

This forum is just a waste of time. Why do I write though...?

Goodbye and peace to you.

If ther's a moderator passing by this message, and think I'm being impolite, trash my account please. I don't need it anymore nor feel the envy to make any other comments.

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by zacharie

Are new Al Powerbooks all made in China - I mean mainland China - or are they still being built in Taiwan?
Mine, a 1.3 Ghz Al 15 bought 3 monthg ago, is already gone for repair due to a faulty Combo drive. However my 667 Ghz Tibook old, and mistreated everyday and built in Taiwan works well like its first days.
Is there any correlation between 'Made in China' and bad quality. I would subjectively and definitely say 'YES'.

Your statistical sample of "1" is not very significant. By dropping out the best and the worst example of your data, you have nothing of which to make any statements.

[ericssonboi]

[QUOTE=zacharie]

Originally Posted by Randman

Obviously, you have no clue and stay confined within the boundaries of your limited knowledge of world affairs. But I'll play along. I'm an American who works in SE Asia. Have you been to Asia? I have. As well as Australia, Europe, the Middle East and North America. All of them. Frequently.

Yes sir, I've been to Asia and was born there. I live in Europe, and like you, travelled the world numerous times. As for my limited knowledge of world affairs. I don't feel the need to discuss my CV and experience with you. It's a complete waste of time.

And if you need facts, I invite you to compare products on the market, just like any consumer would do. Go to a retail store, look at shoes, sweaters, shirrts and your dear Gap garments made in China and just compare

The sun does not shine out of your arse because you think you're above the average world businessman. You take things too seriously. 'I' is not good, wipe the ego.

What a bunch of myseryguts!

This forum is just a waste of time. Why do I write though...?

Goodbye and peace to you.

If ther's a moderator passing by this message, and think I'm being impolite, trash my account please. I don't need it anymore nor feel the envy to make any other comments.

You are indeed a waste of time.

Just because you were born in Asia, and the standard of living is lower there compared to the USA and Europe, it doesn't mean that the Powerbook you bought was faulty because the people live in that country built them.

If your comparing garments made by Gap Inc, why don't you compare the whole line? All the clothes are made in the same place... Why does Old Navy's quality and price point differ from Gap? Why does Gap's quality and price point differ from Banana Republic? And if you shop at any of the big retailers, you'll realize that the products aren't solely made in China. Other places throughout Asia make the clothes also.

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

Your statistical sample of "1" is not very significant. By dropping out the best and the worst example of your data, you have nothing of which to make any statements.

This is true, you have no data to back it up. Just because your Combo drive broke, you start CRYING to the world and trying to blame it on the people who built it.



And if you think the Ti PB users are going to agree with you, your wrong.
If you look at the history of the Ti PB, the owners have had their fair share of latch/hinge, logic board, paint issues just to name a few.. is this because the people in Taiwan built them and not because the manufacter designed the computer with design flaws and had manufacter defects with the parts?

You should get out of your box and open up your eyes to the real world

[zacharie]

Your Statistical Argument Is Stupid And Null. If You Want To Tell Me About Statistics Go And Learn It Properly In University And Go And Learn What Samples Are. Also Go And Learn Probabilities, It Won't Make You Any arm.

I Just Say What I Think If You Don't Like It, I Don't Care Or See The Meaning Of A Forum.

Enjoy It At Your Best and maybe time for you to get excited on your stupid computers and stupid hypotheses about life of people you don't know a thing about.

Now Bash Whoever You Like, It Can Do No Harm But Excite Your Own Spotless Mind.

Finally, Just fu.k off bunch of idiots...

[Randman]

Originally Posted by zacharie

Finally, Just fu.k off bunch of idiots...

You make a baseless and somewhat racist comment with no facts then get your panties in a bind when called on it?

[fisherKing]

this might explain why the chinese food i had last night wasn't so good...

[jhogarty]

Wow this one got hot fast. I'd like to post an observation on my part and it is not meant to speak for all people of all races, etc.

I married a chinese gal. I've been to Hong Kong and China. Compared to the labor I have dealt with in the US (again not all of US, only what I've personally experienced,) the Chinese have a very strong work ethic. They are one of the hardest working people I've ever come across.

For example, my wifes mom and sister are visiting from Hong Kong. The past two days I went home for lunch to find that they walked to the local grocery store, (about a 4 mile round trip,) bought some food and hauled it back. Then cleaned our house by dusting, sweeping, moping, etc. AND cooked a nice diner from scratch. Not frozen dinner.

Sometimes I get angry when I see jobs leave the US. But then I step back and look at why. I hear alot of people wanting things cheaper - clothes, electronics, automobiles, etc. Why should I pay $50 for a shirt made in the US when I can get the same shirt from China for $20 (includes import tax)? Why do you think alot of "American" companies are off shoring their call centers/tech support? They are fighting so hard to be competitive, have low prices, that they need to lower costs somewhere.

Zacharie - I don't think you meant to stir up a controversy. That is not how I read your original post. Seems more like frustration. But I think we see how the topic can get hot fast.

In summary, there will always be defects in manufacturing somewhere. Whether by human or machine. I'm sure some math wiz out there could back me up that it is statistically improvable to have a 100% success rate in manufacturing.

Fisherking - eat where the chinese eat. Most chinese food, in america anyways, is tailored for americans.

Be well,

J...

[cleanup]

I'm Chinese, and most people are narrow-minded.

I was born and have spent my entire life in Canada. This summer I am moving to downtown Shanghai, where I will live for a year.

If you'd like, Zacharie, I'll report back on how well the Chinese people build things. Like skyscrapers, and most of the electronics on your home, and probably 50% of the other consumer products in your home.

Other things have broken, I'm sure, but most of the things you own, and undoubtedly, things that were made in China, are working perfectly fine and have brought you much happiness and satisfaction.

Also, China is a very old civilization. Chinese history has records of events from 5000 years ago, 3000 B.C. If the Chinese have survived for this long, they've got to be pretty industrious, hard working, and smart. Remember, there are over a billion of them.

[runejoha]

From my point of view, there is a difference between contries and quality.

European quality, like BMW, Mercedes and Ferrari is impossible to produce in USA. I remember Mercedes tried to produce some of their M classes in USA, but they had to give it up due to the american "use and trow away" approach. (They moved the factory back to Germany).

I guess this effect is valid for Asia as well. It depends on who and where it is produced. A Ferrari or Austin Marin etc. produced without the european sense for quality and design is very very difficult to image.

Nevertheless, Apple has proved that it is indeed possible for americans to produce quality, at least to a certain point.

They should be clever when they choose manifacor countries, becuase Apple's image is quality and not only price.

[mhuie]

Originally Posted by runejoha

From my point of view, there is a difference between contries and quality.

European quality, like BMW, Mercedes and Ferrari is impossible to produce in USA. I remember Mercedes tried to produce some of their M classes in USA, but they had to give it up due to the american "use and trow away" approach. (They moved the factory back to Germany).

I guess this effect is valid for Asia as well. It depends on who and where it is produced. A Ferrari or Austin Marin etc. produced without the european sense for quality and design is very very difficult to image.

Nevertheless, Apple has proved that it is indeed possible for americans to produce quality, at least to a certain point.

They should be clever when they choose manifacor countries, becuase Apple's image is quality and not only price.

Why do companies have factories in China? Cheap labor. What do you expect? It's all about the management the companies hire and what kind of employees you find. It's not impossible to build a ferarri in the USA by any means. It's the people you hire. It may cost more to find those people you want in other countries, but but NO MEANS is it because of a country

[mhuie]

Originally Posted by zacharie

Obviously folks, you stay confined within the boundaries of the US of A. Come and see what happens in the EU with delocalizations, agreements on WTO and quotas on textiles. Come and see the overall quality of chinese products invading our markets. Then if I blame Chinese products, it's based on my own knowledge. I invite you to observe the retailing markets and compare chinese made products with others, build with a knowledge of quality control policy. Besides, don't blame me for disliking chinese product. I can't stand a country which invaded Tibet and ruined its spiritual richness, corrupted its people in their so called economic revolution, for the only sake of the richness of their soil: oil and natural gaz. My post is only intended to remark that too many products coming from China are far from attaining their general 'end of life' process time before their theoretical, probalistic value. That is all.

You can find sh*t products coming from all countries. If theres a market for low quality cheap, they will sell. Blame the companies on their own quality control, not the workers.

Also, welcome to the 21st century. Your argument is about 10 years old.

[crazeazn]

some of the posters are morons. quality control levels in china/taiwan are generally nowhere near the levels of what it is in other 1st world countries (although its getting there FAST). the amount of hard work that the people put in is irrelevant (b/c sometimes its manufacturing issues). my powerbook is made in taiwan, its broken down 3 times, does it have to do with where its made in? yes, its very possible. my sony was made in japan, the lid would never stay open, poor manufacturing maybe? it boils down to luck of the draw and who made it designed it/ but generally chinese and taiwanese stuff dont have near as quality as japanese or other countries counterparts. hell some of my made in USA **** falls apart all the time.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by runejoha

European quality, like BMW, Mercedes and Ferrari is impossible to produce in USA. I remember Mercedes tried to produce some of their M classes in USA, but they had to give it up due to the american "use and trow away" approach. (They moved the factory back to Germany).

Man, you need to read up on auto manufacturing. For the past few years, European cars (in particular Mercedes) have been at the bottom of quality ratings, while American cars -- and Hyundai -- are now nipping at the heels of the best Japanese makes (Toyota and Honda).

The Europeans have superb engineering, but terrible manufacturing. The only reason European cars have ever been good is because of the many hours of meticulous and costly rework (going back and fixing everything that's not right) that they do. The Japanese figured out how to manufacture with low defects in the 1960s. The Americans did that in the 90s, and this decade, the Koreans. The Europeans are just beginning. (In 1992, the best Japanese car plants were building cars in 1/3 the time and with 1/6 as many defects than the worst European plant.)


Note that the Japanese were able to successfully bring their efficient manufacturing to North America and Europe when they built plants there. It has all to do with proper planning and corporate culture.

I just read two books about this, so it's fresh in my mind.

tooki

[tooki]

Originally Posted by zacharie

Your Statistical Argument Is Stupid And Null. If You Want To Tell Me About Statistics Go And Learn It Properly In University And Go And Learn What Samples Are. Also Go And Learn Probabilities, It Won't Make You Any arm.

I Just Say What I Think If You Don't Like It, I Don't Care Or See The Meaning Of A Forum.

Enjoy It At Your Best and maybe time for you to get excited on your stupid computers and stupid hypotheses about life of people you don't know a thing about.

Now Bash Whoever You Like, It Can Do No Harm But Excite Your Own Spotless Mind.

Finally, Just fu.k off bunch of idiots...

BTW, please be civil. This post was way out of line. (Not to mention hard to read.)

tooki

[ping_pong]

I am a Chinese. Before I moved to Canada three years ago, I worked for a Finnish telecommunications company ( you know who it is) for four years. We manufacture basestations. We made the best quality products among the company, better than our colleagues in Finland and the UK, and the labour costs were only 5 to 10% of theirs. Then what happened: the company sold out two plants in Finland and one in UK and expanded its operations in China.

I am not to say Chinese people are smarter, but we do work hard, and as smart as the colleagues in Europe and the US. It is exactly the reason I changed my profession direction in Canada. I don't think there is any future for the manufacturing industry in Europe or the Americas. All manufacturers will finally move to China or India.

Don't forget 50 years ago, Made in Japan means crappy product. How about now?

[crazeazn]

when africa becomes more industrialized it will become the next hub for cheap labor. maybe antartica after that.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by crazeazn

when africa becomes more industrialized it will become the next hub for cheap labor. maybe antartica after that.

And then Mississippi.

[dragonbong]

Originally Posted by zacharie

Besides, don't blame me for disliking chinese product. I can't stand a country which invaded Tibet and ruined its spiritual richness, corrupted its people in their so called economic revolution, for the only sake of the richness of their soil: oil and natural gaz. My post is only intended to remark that too many products coming from China are far from attaining their general 'end of life' process time before their theoretical, probalistic value. That is all.

So part of the reason why you believe a product is manufatured poorly is based on political actions? Interesting....well if you look at the number of countries that have committed indiscretions to another political body, you're going to be hard pressed to find a country that makes quality products. I know you're just upset at YOUR particular problem but come on, don't use this as supporting evidence, it just makes you look idiotic.

[JoshuaZ]

If you ask the PRC, that silly little island is and always has been part of the China. Silly nationalists. Get with the program. Join in the red fun!

[maCCer]

Originally Posted by zacharie

Obviously folks, you stay confined within the boundaries of the US of A. Come and see what happens in the EU with delocalizations, agreements on WTO and quotas on textiles. Come and see the overall quality of chinese products invading our markets. Then if I blame Chinese products, it's based on my own knowledge. I invite you to observe the retailing markets and compare chinese made products with others, build with a knowledge of quality control policy. Besides, don't blame me for disliking chinese product. I can't stand a country which invaded Tibet and ruined its spiritual richness, corrupted its people in their so called economic revolution, for the only sake of the richness of their soil: oil and natural gaz. My post is only intended to remark that too many products coming from China are far from attaining their general 'end of life' process time before their theoretical, probalistic value. That is all.

have you been to china ?how long have you been there?where do you collect info about china?By TIME?BY CNN? most of your statement looks mindless to me

[maCCer]

Originally Posted by zacharie

Are new Al Powerbooks all made in China - I mean mainland China - or are they still being built in Taiwan?
Mine, a 1.3 Ghz Al 15 bought 3 monthg ago, is already gone for repair due to a faulty Combo drive. However my 667 Ghz Tibook old, and mistreated everyday and built in Taiwan works well like its first days.
Is there any correlation between 'Made in China' and bad quality. I would subjectively and definitely say 'YES'.

shame on you man

[dialo]

This conversation is pretty stupid. China has traditionally been a source of low-quality products because it's had problems advancing technologically. This is changing as a result of manufacturing higher tech items designed elsewhere and strong pushes to modernize by chinese manufacturers and multinationals, thus importing the tech avances, and it's only been in recent years that China has started to shake the low-quality stigma and it's been forced to in order to compete. Old manufaturers in joint relationships with multinationals have been a source of problems with Chinese product quality, but many multinationals just built new, modern facilities that adhere to modern industrial practices. China has long been synonymous with low-quality in the eyes of the average consumer, and not just in western countries. While the pendulum has swung the other way and continuing to get better, attacking someone for expressing concerns about chinese quality and backing it up with feigned ignorance (or worse, honest ignorance) about the traditional problems with chinese manufacturing is just plain stupid and petty. All you have to say is something along the lines of pointing out that chinese manufacturing quality is getting better.

[crazeazn]

Originally Posted by Randman

And then Mississippi.

oh oh! alabama is ahead of mississippi though since they make the mercedes ML

[david_copperfield]

i hope you won't kill your family just because they intake your O2 and exhale CO2.

[runejoha]

Originally Posted by tooki

Man, you need to read up on auto manufacturing. For the past few years, European cars (in particular Mercedes) have been at the bottom of quality ratings, while American cars -- and Hyundai -- are now nipping at the heels of the best Japanese makes (Toyota and Honda).

The Europeans have superb engineering, but terrible manufacturing. The only reason European cars have ever been good is because of the many hours of meticulous and costly rework (going back and fixing everything that's not right) that they do. The Japanese figured out how to manufacture with low defects in the 1960s. The Americans did that in the 90s, and this decade, the Koreans. The Europeans are just beginning. (In 1992, the best Japanese car plants were building cars in 1/3 the time and with 1/6 as many defects than the worst European plant.)


Note that the Japanese were able to successfully bring their efficient manufacturing to North America and Europe when they built plants there. It has all to do with proper planning and corporate culture.

I just read two books about this, so it's fresh in my mind.

tooki

If you know that much you also know that Mercedes had to give up to produce cars in the States due to poor quality. European design and ingeneering is the state og the art, which is the reason that everybody that are sucsessfull wants a BMW, Ferrari, Austin Martin, Mercedes, volvo osv. and NOT an american car. There are indeed less repairs on a japanese car over time, but they are producing cheaper and less advanced cars. The best mass produced car has been the Mercedes S class for years.

[echosphere]

Am I in the Lounge?

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by echosphere

Am I in the Lounge?

i give up. are you?

one of the reasons i stopped going to the lounge, threads like this (we're talking several years now).

ah, brings back memories...

[tooki]

Originally Posted by runejoha

If you know that much you also know that Mercedes had to give up to produce cars in the States due to poor quality. European design and ingeneering is the state og the art, which is the reason that everybody that are sucsessfull wants a BMW, Ferrari, Austin Martin, Mercedes, volvo osv. and NOT an american car. There are indeed less repairs on a japanese car over time, but they are producing cheaper and less advanced cars. The best mass produced car has been the Mercedes S class for years.

You didn't mean to, but you just helped prove my point:

Manufacturing prowess travels with the company in question: if Mercedes had trouble manufacturing in this country, it's because Mercedes screwed up. The Japanese have built numerous plants in this country, with comparable manufacturing success to their plants in Japan.

Europe still produces cars in the old-fashioned "mass production" where errors are allowed to accumulate during manufacturing, requiring extremely costly rework (adjustment, repair, etc) by expensive personnel (the Germans love to call them "craftsmen", but in fact, they're the same as the reworkers Henry Ford had in the 1920s). The Japanese "lean production" strives to eliminate errors to begin with, so that at the end of the production line, the cars don't need to be fixed, they are ready to go.

American cars are, I believe, beginning to be world-class once again. (Not in luxury cars, but ones normal people can afford.) The American car makers dragged their reputation through the mud in the 70s and 80s making cars of astoundingly low quality, and during the 90s, they largely brought their quality up to nearly the level of the Japanese. But the damage to their reputation is going to take another decade to get fixed, since it won't be until their current generation of cars is 10 years old that their long-term durability will be visible. Note that the Americans adopted Japanese engineering and manufacturing processes to do this; old-fashioned "mass production" cannot compete with the Japanese "lean production" method.


As I said before, the Europeans have great design and engineering, but their manufacturing is 40+ years behind Japan. And with the US and Korea now having adopted the Japanese lean production method, the Europeans have to play catch-up compared to them, too.

Note that I never talked about features, etc. I was talking about build quality/manufacturing. The Japanese don't try to make luxury cars, they concentrate on everyday vehicles. (Though if they tried making cars more luxurious than Lexus and Acura, they'd do well.) Right now, if you buy a new Honda or Toyota, you are pretty much guaranteed that it will not have any defects. On the other hand, if you buy a Mercedes right now, it's pretty much guaranteed to have to go into the dealer during the first year to have a defect fixed that never should have left the factory.


tooki

[macpls]

I wonder how a defective PB can spiral to a making a statement that the whole country makes lower quality products.

I am born Asian and live in Asia, my country used to be a manufacturing hub till wages wnet higher, property prices increased as well as people"s expectations went up. No one wanted to be stuck on a factory floor churning out goods.

If the post starter ever visited a factory floor he would undertsand that QC is the key to the perfect product. It starts with the employment process, factory fittings equipment and steps that are taken to ensure that the product is trouble free..in other words most of this is in Apple"s control. they choose the factory worker, the equipment and they decided how good a product will be when it rolls off the factory floor.

Surprise surprise the PBs are actually outsourced to another OEM mfg i think Asustek to be produced. However Apple being their customer has a big say in the mfg process and QC process at the end of the day when IBM did not deliver they switched to Intel chips (this could be price or technologu ..open for another debate)

The point is in China, Thailand, Malaysia etc labor is cheap, housing is cheap, govt"s encourage foreign investment, Japan"s Honda will be producing engines in Thailand, the Toyota Altis has been produced in Thailand for many years already, the Camry is now being produced threre.

So if you feel Asian (ex Japan) quality sucks don't buy but you be hardpressed to live comfortably as most brands already have mfg in cheaper countries.

Until Apple,improve poor testing n QC stdsn sometimes just poor design flaws. (The PBs have had white spots, failed memory slots,not to mention th titnam multiple issues, the battery recall, the ibook recall for failed logic board, the iMacs heat issues, noise issues, earlier iPods have had issues too.)

As for PERFECT pdts i will not hold my breathe, you want perfect even top dollar buys you a lemon every now and then, its the company"s willingness and ability to replace n repair the pdt that counts, Apple has been generous in some pdts and just plain unwilling with others...eg white spots claimed to be only on a certain range of PBs, the noisy i Macs no major recall yet.

closer to home even parents give birth to lemons & morons..not every kid will grow up into a mature, intelligent bright person, you have Hitler as the best example of this, blame it on upbringing, God, genes, culture, religion ...you ask you parents that one if you like

maybe we should just get Bush to invade China and enforce democracy & better QC...like he has done in Iraq...we could all be enjoying trouble free products once we are rid of the low quality chinese labor....Hmmmm

[Andy8]

Originally Posted by zacharie

Are new Al Powerbooks all made in China - I mean mainland China - or are they still being built in Taiwan?
Mine, a 1.3 Ghz Al 15 bought 3 monthg ago, is already gone for repair due to a faulty Combo drive. However my 667 Ghz Tibook old, and mistreated everyday and built in Taiwan works well like its first days.
Is there any correlation between 'Made in China' and bad quality. I would subjectively and definitely say 'YES'.

So setup a inovating hardware manufacturer in the States and see how many computers you can sell that are perfect and priced below what is on offer now.

[SoGood]

Going back to OP's example problem. The combo drive in his/her PB is only a part that Apple has no direct control over, and the location of assembly of the PB certainly had no relationship to the drive's durability. If there's going to be any blame, then blame Apple for accepting that particular brand and model of combo drive. Maybe it's cheaper so that Apple can price that PB at the existing price point.

The other issue with all these bashing on the quality of MIC goods. Well, it's a consumer's choice. If you want it cheap, then you'll get what you paid for. If you want the ultimate quality, then cough up more cash. In this day and age, there's no such thing as "cheap quality goods". It's all about choice and do consider the consumer's role in the flood of MIC goods. At the end of the day, it's the consumers who decides on what to buy. No one is being forced to cough up their cash.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by SoGood

The other issue with all these bashing on the quality of MIC goods. Well, it's a consumer's choice. If you want it cheap, then you'll get what you paid for. If you want the ultimate quality, then cough up more cash. In this day and age, there's no such thing as "cheap quality goods". It's all about choice and do consider the consumer's role in the flood of MIC goods. At the end of the day, it's the consumers who decides on what to buy. No one is being forced to cough up their cash.

I'd like to take issue with the "you get what you pay for" statement because...there's nothing cheap about Apple computers.

iMac; $1300.00 (6 years ago, that's a heck of a lot of money) now sitting with burned up analog board happened upon 5th year of use.

Tibook; $2500.00 now sitting atop stereo cabinet with two broken hinges.

Because I'm gluttoned for punishment I do have a dualie G5 that has been very pleasing. Only had to upgrade my expenditure a couple more thousand to get this reliability, but then... it's only been a couple of years. I'm now looking into getting my wife a 17" PB and am reading about heat problems, kernal panics, and latches not working or popping open spontaneously. As usual, I'll get one, but in terms of long-term use I'll doubtedly get what I paid for. The experience in the meantime is priceless however!

[ebuddy]

*as an aside; ever notice how many relatively new VW's you see around with only one working headlight? What's up with that?!? Any VW owners? Is this indicative of overall build quality in your opinion?

[teknopimp]

Originally Posted by ebuddy

*as an aside; ever notice how many relatively new VW's you see around with only one working headlight? What's up with that?!? Any VW owners? Is this indicative of overall build quality in your opinion?

i have an '02 golf gl and previously had a '99 model. neither had any major problems. the '99 had both headlights go out in the 2nd year of ownership. rear windshield wiper and driver side automatic window broke. made in mexico btw, but i'm not necessarily blaming our brethren south of the border.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by teknopimp

i have an '02 golf gl and previously had a '99 model. neither had any major problems. the '99 had both headlights go out in the 2nd year of ownership. rear windshield wiper and driver side automatic window broke. made in mexico btw, but i'm not necessarily blaming our brethren south of the border.

I love German vehicles. When I'm looking at cars I find I gravitate towards 'em. I've had a couple of Vanagons, an Audi Fox, and an Audi 5000 CS Quattro wagon each one of them most fun in their own way. I now drive a '97 Chrysler Sebring JX and I've built quite the attraction to what Chrysler's been up to lately. You can really see more definitive advances in their design. My Sebring JX was built in Mexico and is a very reliable vehicle. My wife's Chrysler Town and Country was built in Canada and no complaints there either. Must've come off the line on a Monday. I hear quality is as much to do with the simple conditions and demeanor of the factory as the engineering.

[havocidal]

why is this thread in the powerbook section... itz gg way off topic... first ppl argue abt the quality of chinese products.... and then someone challenges another person in statistics (im doin it in college now btw...)... then we haf ppl talking abt vehicles frm different countries... (O.o)

[Ω]

Originally Posted by havocidal

why is this thread in the powerbook section

It is still (sort of) on topic, but the OP's rant would have been better suited in another forum.

Good luck with your stats (I fsking hated stats )

[teknopimp]

Originally Posted by ebuddy

I love German vehicles.

that is what i grew up with. my parents drove bmw, mercedes, audi, porsche and vw. never jap.

[threestain]

The shameful thing about most British car brands is that they aren't British:

Aston Martin is Ford, hence why you get Ford Mondeo parts in the a vastly more expensive car.

Vauxhall, Opel, Holden and Saab are in fact GM. And aren't GM meant be doing really badly, economically? Despite owning virtually everything, like Ford.

BTW, lexus is just Toyota (in fact you can buy the same model rebadged in Japan etc I believe).

[threestain]

Oh and BMW (rolls royce, mini), Mercedes (who ?own? Chrysler, and part of Hyundai, Dodge, Mitsubishi, Smart, Jeep) and VW (audi, seat, skoda, lamborghini, bugatti, bentley and VW) and Fiat (ferrari) are the only big names left in europe.

ford owns Volvo and land rover too, and part of mazda.

World is strange no?

[tooki]

Originally Posted by ebuddy

*as an aside; ever notice how many relatively new VW's you see around with only one working headlight? What's up with that?!? Any VW owners? Is this indicative of overall build quality in your opinion?

From what I hear, electrical problems are unusually common in VWs compared to other makes. But with a headlight, chances are it's just chance, and that those cars' bulbs had simply burned out.

tooki