[suvsr4terrorists]

Anyway, I've said enough in this thread. I'll close by saying that if I see you trapped in your SUV flipped over and burning, I might stop and laugh, then keep going.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

Anyway, I've said enough in this thread. I'll close by saying that if I see you trapped in your SUV flipped over and burning, I might stop and laugh, then keep going.

Not going to happen. Skids before it tips. Kinda hard to ignite the fuel.

I'll be sure to wave when I drive past the snowdrift you're stuck in.

[suvsr4terrorists]

Whatever you say.

[Doofy]

Do you not find it odd that there's only one example of such a rollover on Google images?

[suvsr4terrorists]

Not if you use something that specific.







The sad thing is Jeeps make up the most stable SUVs out there, basically. The cherokee is a very stable vehicle in comparison to other SUVs, but not in comparison to a car.

Edit: Try using google's advanced search, to search one website with crash pictures... like www.car-accidents.com. Then just search for any page containing the word 'jeep'. Bam. Tons of results like these:

http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/a...ry/9-9-04.html
http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/a...ry/7-7-02.html
http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/a...y/8-23-02.html
http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/a...y/2-22-04.html
http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/a...y/9-22-03.html

This one is especially destructive:


e had only had it for 8 days when we went went on vacation to a family renunion. On our return home, I was with my brother in law in his car and my wife and her sister were in the Grand Cherokee with my 3 year old daughter and 6 year old son. The tire blew on the Grand Cherokee and sent her flipping. She and my son were killed instantly.

Her seat belt broke, air bags did not work..door came off..be careful with these cars..She was on a straight road on a beautiful day.

Please note that all this was from just ONE website.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

So that makes the corolla midsize too, right? I mean the corolla is longer, taller, and has wider seating areas. I looked everything up on edmunds, and apart from the rear legroom, it seems the corolla is basically identical or bigger. The bigger luggage area of the prius is due to it's 'wagon' design, not because it's a bigger car.

It's clear now that you really really want to believe that the prius is a much bigger car even though the facts say otherwise.

Wheelbase is usually what determines what class a car falls into here. Midsize usually includes cars between 105" and 110".

Corolla wheelbase: 102.4"
Prius wheelbase: 106.2"

Anyways, it becomes exceedingly obvious once you sit in a Corolla and then sit in a Prius. The difference is quite significant.

[suvsr4terrorists]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Wheelbase is usually what determines what class a car falls into here. Midsize usually includes cars between 105" and 110".

Corolla wheelbase: 102.4"
Prius wheelbase: 106.2"

Anyways, it becomes exceedingly obvious once you sit in a Corolla and then sit in a Prius. The difference is quite significant.

The Corolla is still longer and taller.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

The Corolla is still longer and taller.

The other commonly used measurement for size class is interior volume. A mid-size is 110 - 119 cubic feet:

Corolla interior volume: 103.8
Prius interior volume: 112.3

[suvsr4terrorists]

double post.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Not going to happen. Skids before it tips. Kinda hard to ignite the fuel.

I'll be sure to wave when I drive past the snowdrift you're stuck in.

Thats hilarious. This winter we had more snowbank than roads. More often than not, it would be a big SUV off the road stuck horribly in the drifts.

Meanwhile, I cruised around in my FWD drive Interpid fine. Just because snow is involved does not mean that only SUVs can get around. Too many people don't understand that SUVs brake worse in snow simply because of their weight. Most people have 4-wheel disc brakes now anyway.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by sek929

Thats hilarious. This winter we had more snowbank than roads. More often than not, it would be a big SUV off the road stuck horribly in the drifts.

Meanwhile, I cruised around in my FWD drive Interpid fine. Just because snow is involved does not mean that only SUVs can get around. Too many people don't understand that SUVs brake worse in snow simply because of their weight. Most people have 4-wheel disc brakes now anyway.

Yeah, I've noticed that here too.

Most of the first vehicles off the road after a snowstorm are SUVs. Not surprising though... They just don't drive like sedans. Too bad so many people don't realize this. What's even more sad is when many of the same drivers don't realize they have 4WD either.

[sek929]

Its especially bad on the highways here too. Lots of ice.

The ones that use 4WD get too cocky and drive waaay to fast when the roads are icy. Then they take a trip to the ditch, usually tipping over,

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by sek929

Its especially bad on the highways here too. Lots of ice.

The ones that use 4WD get too cocky and drive waaay to fast when the roads are icy. Then they take a trip to the ditch, usually tipping over,

You mean like this?

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Not going to happen. Skids before it tips. Kinda hard to ignite the fuel.

I'll be sure to wave when I drive past the snowdrift you're stuck in.

It reminds me of the day I was driving down from Vail in Colorado. It had been snowing slightly for the whole day. I can't remember how many SUVs I have seen on the side of the road, flipped over or just crashed..... Made me remember how useless and dangerous SUVs are. On top of being wasteful.

[lamewing]

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

>sigh<

K. Look. I'm a car freak. You aren't. Let's just assume that I know a bit more than you about this, k? The problem is that this is neither cost efficient NOR better for the environment. Why?

BATTERIES. Batteries are fairly expensive, they do NOT last all that long, and they are hazardous waste. It's actually MORE wasteful to have a factory (using energy the whole time it's running) to make batteries (using plastics, acids (purchased from another factory) and metal plates (refined by another company)) that need to be replaced every few years than it is to just drive a smaller car in the first place which only relies on a refinery that produces gasoline.

Building more **** isn't really the solution. So let's say we all had a car like this.... we'd all need to replace our batteries every 5-8 years. There'd be more power plants all over the landscape to keep up with the huge demand in electricity, there'd be huge landfills full of old batteries, and we'd be using tons of oil to produce new batteries and new cars in addition to the gasoline that these 'hybrid' cars need.

The fact is, battery technology hasn't made any real significant leaps in DECADES. Powerful electical motors are nothing new, electrical motors are known for having very high torque at very low RPMS, that's just an attribute of an electrical motor. The fact that you don't know any of this speaks volumes on your knowledge of this subject.

The problem is consumption and excessive wastes of natural resources. SUVs are a prime example. Do SUV owners offroad? Less than 5% do. Do they benefit from 4wd? Less than 5% do. Do they tow things? Less than 5% do. SUVs get awful MPG, spew emissions, aren't safe, and are annoying to have on the road. Instead of focusing on super efficient cars, we should focus on the media brainwashing all the dumbf*cks in america to have more efficient taste.

Actually, the battery technology used in even today's hybrids is much more advanced than you make it out to be. There is NO reason that the avereage lifespan of these hybrids' battery packs won't last 250,000 miles. I have read several papers and spoken to many electrical engineers in regards to this. Part of the reson for this is that the desgin of the car keeps the charge level at the most efficient level for the battery packs. Just because your battery gauge says ZIP (as my honda civic hybrid has on about three occasions) doesn't meant the battery is empty, but instead that the battery is outside the most efficient zone for charge/recharge. Also, these battery packs aren't going to be thrown in landfills, they can be eaisly recycled.

[Railroader]

A plug in car? How 1996.

[Link]

I like the Prius, sure it's hideous (IMHO), and I despise the hatchback wannabe thing (Either make it a car or a wagon and be done with it), but it tries to prove the concept that a car doesn't have to be an ugly little tiny tin can to be good on gas.

I wish GM took the amount of design 'genius' they put into the hummers and applied it to a car. Their cars look boring and ugly in comparison, and well -- I know you guys are "JAPANESE IS SO RELIABL!!!!" whores, but every >10 year old japanese car I've seen looked ugly, tin-can style, and well.. cheap. They might hold their value for a while, but they sure get the crappy look fast.

Usually old American cars become "classics"....

old japanese cars become mexican landscape mobiles.

Anyway, I'm pretty disgusted with the negligence that car manufacturers have given the SUV -- they have almost no unibody designs and the best they can do is put airbags in them. That said, after having to go with a driving school mustang, my mom pretty much swore off any low cars.

Honestly, some cars... are just... too much. Chrysler's 300 and the Dodge Magnum -- not to mention the charger, are awesome cars in design, but they're so... bulky! You can't see out of them!

The little tiny hondas and acuras and stuff are so low that when you ride around you feel like you're being hurled around in a gokart. The econobox models sound like a golf cart engine dragged kicking and screaming into a golfcart, especially when getting on the freeway -- the dated-ass design of the civic indicates that too

I honestly have to say I'm disappointed with all the car manufacturers right now, given the situation. There's a total lack of design innovation and generally, too much or not enough.. I like the midsize sedan form factor -- easy to park, not too big, yet not ridiculous -- the trunk is, well... a trunk. You put things back there, and they're there -- not with that "falls around and under the seats" BS... man wagons are so cheesy.

SUVs are just station wagons on big wheels, and cars have essentially become lumps of clay with mirrors sticking out of them. The "crossover" form factor seems awesome in that you can actually park the damn thing in a parking space without having to guess where the right side of your car is because you're sitting so close to the ground (or your beltline is so damn high), and you still get a nice high roof.. but they're built like cars.

Unfortunately the crossovers are "luxury wagons" -- they tend to have 4 seats and ridiculous gas wasting engines.

I don't think the SUV is a bad form factor at all, though I think that they need a lot of changes -- there definitely needs to be some sort of law demanding more *full* support of the vehicle, since rollovers are a real problem, they should have thicker pillars if anything..

That and possibly a DMV test that allows you to drive those wagons, let's face it, THEY AREN'T CARS. No you don't ****ing go around the corner at 50mph, and you don't go 30mph over the speed limit in one.. **** they're too high off the ground for that!

Admittedly, to me they seem like driving cheap light cars -- I once had to drive a toyota corolla or something of that sort -- it was this really crappy 2 door from the early 90s that was so light if you pulled a quick turn you could feel the car tipping! Obviously, you'll need to know the limits of your vehicle and operate within them -- whether it's a corvette or an escalade, and people really need to remember that.

[lamewing]

Originally Posted by Link

Usually old American cars become "classics"....

Like the Pinto, the Mustang II, the Delorean, the K-car...classic

[suvsr4terrorists]

Originally Posted by Link

I wish GM took the amount of design 'genius' they put into the hummers and applied it to a car. Their cars look boring and ugly in comparison, and well -- I know you guys are "JAPANESE IS SO RELIABL!!!!" whores, but every >10 year old japanese car I've seen looked ugly, tin-can style, and well.. cheap. They might hold their value for a while, but they sure get the crappy look fast.

Usually old American cars become "classics"....

old japanese cars become mexican landscape mobiles.

I couldn't disagree with you more. My wife's honda, for example, may look like an old honda, but the build quality of it's interior is simply amazing. I'd even say it's better than most current hondas. The quality of the materials they used, and the fitment of all the panels is just fantastic. As for mexi-sized ricemobiles..... meh. I see mexi-rice on everything. And no, american cars won't become classics anymore, after about 1974. With emissions, huge quality problems, boring 70s designs, anemic engines, horrible reliability, american cars weren't very good for a long time.

after having to go with a driving school mustang, my mom pretty much swore off any low cars.

Huh? Why?

Honestly, some cars... are just... too much. Chrysler's 300 and the Dodge Magnum -- not to mention the charger, are awesome cars in design, but they're so... bulky! You can't see out of them!

That's because you need to be a 200+lb person to fit in one properly.

The little tiny hondas and acuras and stuff are so low that when you ride around you feel like you're being hurled around in a gokart.

You mean sharp handling with right now response? Say it ain't so! What the hell is wrong with go-karts? Ever been to an autocross? It's fun to see the go-karts go out and set a laptime faster than the porsches, vettes, bmws, etc etc etc etc.

I honestly have to say I'm disappointed with all the car manufacturers right now, given the situation. There's a total lack of design innovation and generally, too much or not enough.. I like the midsize sedan form factor -- easy to park, not too big, yet not ridiculous -- the trunk is, well... a trunk. You put things back there, and they're there -- not with that "falls around and under the seats" BS... man wagons are so cheesy.

Yep. Seems like most companies think a little car has to be a cheap piece of crap, and the only place they can have a nice interior is on a huge land yacht. BMW's MINI is one example that breaks the mold. The interior is pretty nice for a small car... hopefully they'll make more cars like that. As for the 'midsize sedan' generally having a boring coma-inducing designs, it's because of their demographic. These are the people with families, working an 8-5 job that don't want to stick out, they want to blend in.

Admittedly, to me they seem like driving cheap light cars -- I once had to drive a toyota corolla or something of that sort -- it was this really crappy 2 door from the early 90s that was so light if you pulled a quick turn you could feel the car tipping! Obviously, you'll need to know the limits of your vehicle and operate within them -- whether it's a corvette or an escalade, and people really need to remember that.

That's surprising. Generally, the smaller and lighter the car, the better it handles. The toyota paseo you were driving probably had no swaybar in the back, or a broken swaybar mount, combined with blown struts or something. But the problem you're talking about , the tipping, is really a result of way too soft suspension. It's because americans like cushy rides. You yourself were complaining about honda and acura's go-kart feel.... you want something cushier. Well. You can't have both. It either feels more like a gokart and handles well, or it's cushy and doesn't handle very well at all.

[frido:mac]

(Sorry to bring up the old thread again...)

I drove an Audi 1.2 TDi for the last 2 years, and it got about 80 mpg most of the time, without batteries (1.2 ltr turbodiesel with 4 doors, automatic transmission, narrow tyres and optimized aerodynamics...)
Unfortunately, VW/Audi stopped production this June, I think they are more interested in bigger and faster cars (I hear there´s a 1.4liter-golf coming out with a turbo and a supercharger fitted to produce 170 hp)
I wonder if german manufacturers are totally missing the whole move toward hybrids and such...

Bye, Frido

[lamewing]

I am also suprised that the car companies "cannot" make little cars with great mileage. Heck the Honda CRX-HF could get around 50 to 50 mpg with just a gasoline engine. 2 seater? Check! But just how many people are in most vehicles being drvien to work?

Supposedly Honda is bringing the Vit over to the States next year. When did the car companies decide that hatchbacks are unwanted. OH, bad news for those Echo lovers. Here in the States, Toyota dropped the Echo for the 2006 year...idiots.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by lamewing

When did the car companies decide that hatchbacks are unwanted.

Both the Matrix and the Prius are hatchbacks.

OH, bad news for those Echo lovers. Here in the States, Toyota dropped the Echo for the 2006 year...idiots.

I suspect they are responding the US customers, but it would be interesting to see actual Echo sales numbers.

[lamewing]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Both the Matrix and the Prius are hatchbacks.

I suspect they are responding the US customers, but it would be interesting to see actual Echo sales numbers.

What I meant about hatchbacks is they used to be much more popular. Now the SUV has become the modern version of the hatchback.

In regards to the Echo sales in the U.S. Toyota wanted to target the younger audience, so as to create new, future Toyota buyers, but the Echo ended up being purchased by 30 and up as a second car. Not enough were sold to the younger folks. Of course it doesn't help that Toyota chose NOT to sell the hatchback version (so much NICER than the 2/4 door models) in the U.S. Strange. The hatchback is sold all over the world, even up North in Canada, but they didn't think hatchbacks were wanted badly enough...or at least that is what Toyota told me.

Instead they created the Scion models. The first two are just different bodies on the Echo chassis and engine (the tranny may be different. It has a different gear ration). I was all ready to buy an Echo this year. I guess I will have to import from Canada. That will cost an extra grand...grrrr.

[suvsr4terrorists]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Both the Matrix and the Prius are hatchbacks.

The matrix is more of a wagon, really.

[suvsr4terrorists]

Originally Posted by lamewing

Instead they created the Scion models. The first two are just different bodies on the Echo chassis and engine (the tranny may be different. It has a different gear ration). I was all ready to buy an Echo this year. I guess I will have to import from Canada. That will cost an extra grand...grrrr.

Yep. I really dig that scion TC. That's a cute littel car with pretty awesome build quality, style, performance, and options for a measly 16 grand. I couldn't imagine someone actually buying a sunfire/cavalier/neon/focus when you could get this car instead.

[lamewing]

Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists

Yep. I really dig that scion TC. That's a cute littel car with pretty awesome build quality, style, performance, and options for a measly 16 grand. I couldn't imagine someone actually buying a sunfire/cavalier/neon/focus when you could get this car instead.

Now the Scion TC is a totally different car than the XA and XB (which are just echos with a differnt shell). It looks like a nice car. A kid in my neighborhood has one and it definately is more attractive than a Civic or Corolla. or any of the U.S. models you mentioned above.