[saddino]

From the completely revolutionary, innovative minds at Microsoft come...Microsoft Gadgets! (for Windows Vista)

What are Gadgets? Gadgets are a new category of mini-application designed to provide information, useful lookup, or enhance an application or service on your Windows PC or the Web. Examples might include a weather gadget running on your desktop or on your homepage, an RSS Gadget that pulls in your favorite feeds, or an extension of a business application providing just-in-time status on the pulse of your business.

So, how long before the "Microsoft invented Gadgets and then Konfabulator copied and then Apple copied" troll MS threads appear? 2008?

[olePigeon]

I'd say shortly before the "Microsoft invented the Aqua interface" threads.

[E's Lil Theorem]

They don't even try to hide the fact they copied Apple any more. For shame, Microsoft, for shame.

[olePigeon]

Don't you guys remember the banners at Macworld?

"Introducing Longhorn."
"Redmond, start your copiers."

I can see it at Ballmer's office - "They wanna play copiers? I'll give them copiers! We'll copy them out of business! I'm going to f*cking kill Steve Jobs! I'm going f*cking bury Apple!" *throws a chair*

[osiris]

Gadgets? They called it Gadgets for crying outloud?

I bet Steve Balmer secretly dresses up to look like Steve Jobs.

[Salty]

Didn't you hear? They've renamed WinFS Floodlight...

[turtle777]

That's so pathetic !

-t

[FulcrumPilot]

Now this looks new and originale!

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

"They wanna play copiers? I'll give them copiers! We'll copy them out of business! I'm going to f*cking kill Steve Jobs! I'm going f*cking bury Apple!" *throws a chair*

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Don't you guys remember the banners at Macworld?

"Introducing Longhorn."
"Redmond, start your copiers."

I can see it at Ballmer's office - "They wanna play copiers? I'll give them copiers! We'll copy them out of business! I'm going to f*cking kill Steve Jobs! I'm going f*cking bury Apple!" *throws a chair*

Thank you thank you, that made me laugh out loud

It's funny because it is true.

cheers

W-Y

[mdc]

Have you ever wondered how new technologies get developed in Microsoft? Wonder how a cool idea goes from incubation to release?

you wait for other companies to finish their stuff and then copy it?

[loki74]

Originally Posted by Salty

Didn't you hear? They've renamed WinFS Floodlight...

umm... you're JOKING right?? OH hell I HOPE you are cause man.... I wouldnt even know what to say... that is, what to say after I', done picking my jaw up off the floor and laughing my ass off.

Anyway... WIDGETS??? AHAHahahahHAHAHAhha that is truly funny. To be fair, I'm not overly fond of dashboard. But now we're looking at HOW many stolen concepts??

Have you ever wondered how new technologies get developed in Microsoft? Wonder how a cool idea goes from incubation to release?

Nope, I cant say I have ever wondered--I know exacly how it works: Wait for Apple, Ruin Concept, New Name, Release, Tote as Own Original Idea. (Repeat as unnecessary)

[rickey939]

I can't wait for the .Net Exclusive Gadgets to be released.

[nredman]

funny and very pathetic.

[Big Mac]

It's despicable. It's outrageous. It's. . . Yes, it's Microsoft!

Perhaps the next thing Microsoft will copy will be a foolhardy, unnecessary processor architecture switch. . . .

We may want to start leaving our opinion's on the gadgeter's blogs. I was perusing them for interesting tidbits, and while none of them have the intestinal fortitude to admit where the "inspiration" for this great new desktop strategy came from, I found this tasty morsel:

iPod - missing on a bigger opportunity
as usual - i'm blogging in the midst of madness for getting ready for PDC . i think it helps me relax or something...

on to what I really want to talk about: iPod

first of all i absolutely love the nano - as mossberg says: iPod nano combines beauty and function. and i'm placing an order for it soon - trying to justify whether i really need it given i already have an ipod mini...

i have a suggestion for Steve Jobs meanwhile: support WMA (DRM)

the apple closed system isn't really tapping its bigger potential (heck i work at microsoft, im happy about that) - but let's take that hat off ( i don't wear it that often anyways )... are you really selling more macs by having a closed system? do you really think that music is that core that everyone will just start buying macs cause they love ipod and itunes and dump their pcs. i think not. so how about taking the ipod/itunes business to the next level.

now if you actually supported WMA (the DRM'd version) - it is the more prominent format after all, then you're really talking. zen, creative and whoever else will run out of business or step us and ship something compelling. heck all the music services out there will have the same problem.

i love my ipod and yet the majority of my catalog is in WMA and DRM'd - there's no way i'm going through the pain of burning them all and then transferring them back to pc and then to my ipod.

Also of note, Sean Alaexander fawns over the iPod. Finally, these Microsoft bungholes seem to believe they invented gadgets, calling them improvements on the "sidebar." It's almost as silly as claiming Dashboard's ancestor was the lowly Desk Accessory, but I digress.

[Salty]

Oh well good thing they're waisting their time copying dash board... would hate to see em get ripping off spotlight done well

Anyway yah it's funny the guy has an iPod... but most of his music is DRMed... that's really stupid of you.

[budster101]

Wonder how many people at MS have iPods? ...

[alligator]

This has got to be a joke. You can't seriously tell me Microsoft is adding this feature and claiming it is new. I'm in shock - how could one company be so STUPID????

[songoku912]

Damn...I mean...damn.

[budster101]

Their customers for the most part are stupid.

[kcmac]

I don't know what anyone is worried about. By the time Vista does finally come out and tries its' best to copy Tiger (or even Panther), Apple will release Leopard and Lord knows how many more versions of Mac OS X before the next version of Windows comes out in about 2012. We may even see Mac OS XL by then....

But of course there are so many versions of Vista, who knows which will get the Widgets, which will get the Exposé rip off, etc. I'm just waiting for them to do the ultimate Apple rip off and just come out with one freeking version!

[Paco500]

I wonder if by the time Leopard and Vista come out, dashboard will have been left to wither like so many whiz-bang tech-demo features in the MacOS. OpenDoc, QuickDrawGX, Quicktime VR, Voice Control (plain talk?) Sherlock, Sherlock2, that handwriting recognition thing in Panther, etc. It's cool and all, but I find myself using it less and less. By the time we have gadgets, there's a good chance the concept will be obsolete.

But maybe not.

[Wiskedjak]

I feel sorry for Konfabulator ... now everyone is copying them without giving them their due credit. Maybe they'll have a little more muscle under Yahoo!

[Cubeoid]

It lead me to this gold mine... http://www.start.com/

[James L]

Wow, Apple steals ideas from other companies... no one upset.

M$ steals ideas from Apple.... everyone upset.

Weird.

[budster101]

What did Apple steal?

I guess the point is, M$ is stealing from Apple and have done so while saying it's their innovation... they have how much of the market?...

Are you talking about Konfabulator? Did they get anything? I'm curious.

[James L]

Originally Posted by budster101

What did Apple steal?

I guess the point is, M$ is stealing from Apple and have done so while saying it's their innovation... they have how much of the market?...

Are you talking about Konfabulator? Did they get anything? I'm curious.

Yup, Konfabulator.

We could get into the picky definition of the word steal if it bothers you. The point is, Dashboard was a well established product, albeit 3rd party under a different name, for quite some time. Apple simply repackaged it.

In the same way that there where SEVERAL mp3 players available YEARS before the iPod, in the same way that there were many musical jukeboxes out long before iTunes, in the same way that xerox was using GUI before Apple, Dashboard was just another product Apple took and improved on... not invented.

Now, I do agree with your comment about M$ taking an idea and calling it their amazing new innovation.

I think when it comes to business practices, unfortunately, Apple and M$ are more alike than some people care to recognize.

Cheers,

James

p.s. I am pretty sure there was a multi button mouse before Apple's came out!

[budster101]

Yep. I agree with all you have said. Also though, it's common in this business to do just that. I'm not giving Apple a pass here, but they've improved on everything and have developed quite a niche. Honestly it's the best computer I've ever owned, and I cannot complain about their other products. Again, I'm young when it comes to Apple. Only 3 years ago or so, did I ever even work on a Mac, and I wasn't too impressed with them before Steve Jobs came back.

I hope they keep on with the good work, and improving their products as they have.

Since I'm so new, I bring with it my enthusiasm like I think many others who have just switched in the past few years, which I think is great. So many of us have gotten fed up with fighting our computers and decided one day to give it a try.

What did happen with Konfabulator. I used it for a short time, and then actually paid for it, but I stopped using it actually. Did they get anything? I hope so. Great idea, but the execution isn't as good as Apple's I think.

Finally, I just like how integrated everything is wit the Mac. iLife, iWork, .mac < Great combination and time saving. What's more is, they support their customers very well. Free classes, etc. for those just starting out with a computer.

I'm a fan, but not fanatical in the sense that I just despise what Microsoft does, and the lies their users try to perpetuate. It's irritating, because I've been there and actually thought like them for a time.

[Jacob]

I wouldn't get too fussed up about it. Microsoft is too technical for their own good. If they try to copy something, it's going to get confused and cluttered. No way it can be as good as the original

[E's Lil Theorem]

I like it. It looks nice

EDIT: Oops! This was meant to go in the MS Word thread

[budster101]

The thing is, I've wasted countless hours on tech suppport with Microsoft and it's vendors over the years, and I get flashbacks when I work on friend's computers... it's almost like Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I feel physically sick... that's how much I hate Microsoft and any machine running it. If it works fine, great, I will work on it, but if I have to fix it, forgettaboudit. I won't do it. BTDT.

I turned down a good job at a large firm because they used DELL computers. The fellow that interviewed me looked horrid and pale. He said he's tired of working on these damned computers... I walked out and didn't look back. Got a job the next week, thank God... part-time but hey, I get to work on a Mac.

Like I've mentioned before. Almost 3 years and I actually enjoy working on my computer. I guess, I'm more greatful than a fan.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by James L

Yup, Konfabulator.

We could get into the picky definition of the word steal if it bothers you. The point is, Dashboard was a well established product, albeit 3rd party under a different name, for quite some time. Apple simply repackaged it.

Many will raise objections to that claim, James. Yes, I do believe Apple was inspired by Konfabulator, and no, I do not buy the Desk Accessory-widget-forerunner argument. I think Apple should have purchased Konfabulator, as long as Arlo Rose would have cashed in for a reasonable amount. (On the other hand, it has also been stated that other widget products predate even Konfabulator.) That said, while Konfabulator was indeed on the market for awhile, it was not well established. Many who tried it did not care for it at all due to limited usefulness, steep resource requirements and a closed development environment. More importantly, Apple did not take Konfabulator and repackage it, because Dashboard has not only an interface distinct from the former, it is based on different technology (Webcore).

In the same way that there where SEVERAL mp3 players available YEARS before the iPod, in the same way that there were many musical jukeboxes out long before iTunes, in the same way that xerox was using GUI before Apple, Dashboard was just another product Apple took and improved on... not invented.

Apple never claimed to invent digital lifestyle devices or MP3 players. Apple knew it could improve upon them, however. No one here will ever tell you Apple invented the MP3 player. But you'll have to agree that the iPod has always blown the competition away; you cannot take that fact away from Apple. Secondly, there were software jukeboxes before iTunes - iTunes was formerly Sound Jam afterall. Apple did the right thing in that case; it bought superior software and then improved upon it to make it an unqualified blockbuster. (Sound Jam was at least a popular, well-thought of product before Apple bought it, as opposed to Konfabulator; some argue Konfabulator's warts made it unattractive as an acquisiton.) Similarly, although Xerox had a GUI and other advanced computing projects going on before Apple did, Xerox's GUI was rudimentary and bore very little resemblance to the 1984 Mac. To see equivalence between Apple:Xerox and Microsoft:Apple is to deny both that Apple compensated Xerox for the technology its execs were exposed to and also that the Lisa/Mac team were much more responsible for the GUI we know and love than Xerox or anyone else. I take such erroneous comparisons very seriously.

Now, I do agree with your comment about M$ taking an idea and calling it their amazing new innovation.

We're not saying Apple invented the widget. We (or I) contend that but for Dashboard, there would be no Gadgets in Vista. Apple took a third party idea, improved upon it substantially and thereby made it popular. Microsoft then took note of Apple's success and decided to put to "incorporate" it, without acknowledging any inspiration came from Apple - or anyone else for that matter. Their Gadgets bloggers talk openly about the iPod but make no reference to Dashboard, and it strains credulity to think they know nothing of it.

I think when it comes to business practices, unfortunately, Apple and M$ are more alike than some people care to recognize.

They are alike in certain respects, but you're exaggerating the similarities by distorting the record. As far as monopolistic tendencies are concerned, Apple is to Microsoft as a musket is to an AK47.

[James L]

Originally Posted by budster101

Yep. I agree with all you have said. Also though, it's common in this business to do just that. I'm not giving Apple a pass here, but they've improved on everything and have developed quite a niche. Honestly it's the best computer I've ever owned, and I cannot complain about their other products. Again, I'm young when it comes to Apple. Only 3 years ago or so, did I ever even work on a Mac, and I wasn't too impressed with them before Steve Jobs came back.

I hope they keep on with the good work, and improving their products as they have.

Since I'm so new, I bring with it my enthusiasm like I think many others who have just switched in the past few years, which I think is great. So many of us have gotten fed up with fighting our computers and decided one day to give it a try.

What did happen with Konfabulator. I used it for a short time, and then actually paid for it, but I stopped using it actually. Did they get anything? I hope so. Great idea, but the execution isn't as good as Apple's I think.

Finally, I just like how integrated everything is wit the Mac. iLife, iWork, .mac < Great combination and time saving. What's more is, they support their customers very well. Free classes, etc. for those just starting out with a computer.

I'm a fan, but not fanatical in the sense that I just despise what Microsoft does, and the lies their users try to perpetuate. It's irritating, because I've been there and actually thought like them for a time.

Agreed my friend. I have been a Mac user since 1986 (and I am only in my 30's. Great influences in my childhood), so I don't really think about how great the Mac experience is sometimes. I don't use PC's at all, whereas I web design, photoshop, video edit in Final Cut, record my band in GB, etc all the time on my Mac.

Was it you who was telling me about the 1 hour of personal FCP training per week when you sign up for a $100 program or something like that? Anyway, whomever it was, just another example of why Apple is great.

Thanks for the reminder. Apple is just a way of life in my family. It is nice to see how happy they make people sometimes to be reminded of the cool (not always original) products they provide us.

Cheers,

James

EDIT: Have you been out to SF for MWSF in January? It is always fun, and I try to go each year. It is sort of the mecca for Apple lovers. It varies in size from year to year (last year was a bit small), but it is always fun. Plus, SF is just an amazing city to hang out in for a week.

[James L]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Many will take raise objections to that claim, James. Yes, I do believe Apple was inspired by Konfabulator, and no, I do not buy the Desk Accessory-widget-forerunner argument. I think Apple should have purchased Konfabulator, as long as Arlo Rose would have cashed in for a reasonable amount. (On the other hand, it has also been stated that other widget products predate even Konfabulator.) That said, while Konfabulator was indeed on the market for awhile, it was not well established. Many who tried it did not care for it at all due to limited usefulness, steep resource requirements and a closed development environment. More importantly, Apple did not take Konfabulator and repackage it, because Dashboard has not only an interface distinct from the former, it is based on different technology (Webcore).


Apple never claimed to invent digital lifestyle devices or MP3 players. Apple knew it could improve upon them, however. No one here will ever tell you Apple invented the MP3 player. But you'll have to agree that the iPod has always blown the competition away; you cannot take that fact away from Apple. Secondly, there were software jukeboxes before iTunes - iTunes was formerly Sound Jam afterall. Apple did the right thing in that case; it bought superior software and then improved upon it to make it an unqualified blockbuster. (Sound Jam was at least a popular, well-thought of product before Apple bought it, as opposed to Konfabulator; some argue Konfabulator's warts made it unattractive as an acquisiton.) Similarly, although Xerox had a GUI and other advanced computing projects going on before Apple did, Xerox's GUI was rudimentary and bore very little resemblance to the 1984 Mac. To see equivalence between Apple:Xerox and Microsoft:Apple is to deny both that Apple compensated Xerox for the technology its execs were exposed to and also that the Lisa/Mac team were much more responsible for the GUI we know and love than Xerox or anyone else. I take such erroneous comparisons very seriously.


We're not saying Apple invented the widget. We (or I) contend that but for Dashboard, there would be no Gadgets in Vista. Apple took a third party idea, improved upon it substantially and thereby made it popular. Microsoft then took note of Apple's success and decided to put to "incorporate" it, without acknowledging any inspiration came from Apple - or anyone else for that matter. Their Gadgets bloggers talk openly about the iPod but make no reference to Dashboard, and it strains credulity to think they know nothing of it.


They are alike, but you're exaggerating the similarities by distorting the record.

Good post. You and I disagree on a point or two, but that's ok.

Cheers,

James

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Paco500

I wonder if by the time Leopard and Vista come out, dashboard will have been left to wither like so many whiz-bang tech-demo features in the MacOS. OpenDoc, QuickDrawGX, Quicktime VR, Voice Control (plain talk?) Sherlock, Sherlock2, that handwriting recognition thing in Panther, etc. It's cool and all, but I find myself using it less and less. By the time we have gadgets, there's a good chance the concept will be obsolete.

But maybe not.

The world was not ready for the requisite paradigmatic shift that OpenDoc's document model brought forth. It's very difficult to break out of the app centric mindset, especially since everyone has been trained to worship at the altars of applications like Office. QuickDrawGX was still born because it was not built into OS 7.5, nor was it incorporated into later releases as other 7.5 technologies were. QTVR is still alive; it's just not that popular. Speech Recognition was brought over to OS X; it's just not that popular. Sherlock, which required custom channel program, has been obviated by the vastly superior Dashboard. And Inkwell is around; it's likely awaiting some yet-to-be-released Apple accessory to make it more generally useful.

Originally Posted by James L

Good post. You and I disagree on a point or two, but that's ok.

Cheers,

James

Thank you. I'm sorry if that reply appeared overly harsh - I just wanted to drive the point home. Because, despite my grievances with Apple, I'm very sensitive to such falsehoods.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by budster101

The thing is, I've wasted countless hours on tech suppport with Microsoft and it's vendors over the years, and I get flashbacks when I work on friend's computers... it's almost like Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I feel physically sick... that's how much I hate Microsoft and any machine running it. If it works fine, great, I will work on it, but if I have to fix it, forgettaboudit. I won't do it. BTDT.

I turned down a good job at a large firm because they used DELL computers. The fellow that interviewed me looked horrid and pale. He said he's tired of working on these damned computers... I walked out and didn't look back. Got a job the next week, thank God... part-time but hey, I get to work on a Mac.

Like I've mentioned before. Almost 3 years and I actually enjoy working on my computer. I guess, I'm more greatful than a fan.

I'm sorry, but if you're feeling physically ill just from seeing a different option, you need help. Not to mention how wacked out turning down a good job because of this problem is.

[budster101]

BTDT. Stands for "Been There Done That". I'm happier where I am now than were I would have been. I don't go for the money up front anymore, it's about loving what I do, and as long as my wife supports that, I'm ok.

I get ill when I have to work on a machine that is having problems. I thought I made that clear, I'm sorry. I can work on a PC/Windows machine but, the impression I got from him was, that isn't that case quite often there, and this is a big company. Not to go into detail, but it didn't feel right for me, so I walked.

What help would you suggest? Windows therapy? I have it. It's called Apple.

[JoshuaZ]

Wow, now thats a bit lame. Then again I saw one of my co-workers running widgets of some sort in XP that are direct copies of OS X widets. Oh well.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by budster101

BTDT. Stands for "Been There Done That". I'm happier where I am now than were I would have been. I don't go for the money up front anymore, it's about loving what I do, and as long as my wife supports that, I'm ok.

I get ill when I have to work on a machine that is having problems. I thought I made that clear, I'm sorry. I can work on a PC/Windows machine but, the impression I got from him was, that isn't that case quite often there, and this is a big company. Not to go into detail, but it didn't feel right for me, so I walked.

What help would you suggest? Windows therapy? I have it. It's called Apple.

Nah, not therapy. Just learn to be more accepting of others and their choices. There's really no need to bash windows every chance you get. That's just being immature.

[Kevin]

Just another way of people getting viruses on teh Windows.

[budster101]

I'm entitled to my opinion, and I'm happy to give it. Consistently.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by James L

Wow, Apple steals ideas from other companies... no one upset.
M$ steals ideas from Apple.... everyone upset.Weird.

Thought the same thing. There indeed is some hypocrisy in that...
On the other hand, we are Mac fanbois. Whodathunkit ?

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by James L

Yup, Konfabulator.

We could get into the picky definition of the word steal if it bothers you. The point is, Dashboard was a well established product, albeit 3rd party under a different name, for quite some time. Apple simply repackaged it.

In the same way that there where SEVERAL mp3 players available YEARS before the iPod, in the same way that there were many musical jukeboxes out long before iTunes, in the same way that xerox was using GUI before Apple, Dashboard was just another product Apple took and improved on... not invented.

Now, I do agree with your comment about M$ taking an idea and calling it their amazing new innovation.

I think when it comes to business practices, unfortunately, Apple and M$ are more alike than some people care to recognize.

p.s. I am pretty sure there was a multi button mouse before Apple's came out!

Your only valid point is Konfabulator.
With all other things, Apple made major improvements and/or inventions.

iPod: UI, scroll wheel, FW
Mighty Mouse: scroll ball
iTunes: free jukebox with burning ability and built in shop !

-t

[olePigeon]

Microsoft actually claims to have invented the Gadgets/Widget/Konfabulator idea. Apple doesn't make any claims and almost never disputes (I think the Widget thing was the first time I've actually heard Apple dispute anything) accusations that they were inspired by other technologies.

It's how software improves. One company sees another company doing cool stuff and they want too, so they incorprate the idea and improve on it to one-up their competition.

However, Microsoft just doesn't see a cool idea and improve on it or make a brand new piece of software inspired by it. They just flat out copy it then claim they invented it from the ground up. It's pathetic.

A.T. They don't even go out of their way to make it look different. Even the style, the very design behind these pieces of technology are copied. It's one thing to copy software and make it look better or even function a little better (like skinning), but Microsoft can't even do that.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Just another way of people getting viruses on teh Windows.

I can't wait for ActiveX Gadgets.

[olePigeon]

Apple didn't invent a LOT of things, but they made them useful, functional, popluar, and cool. They didn't invent the 3.5" floppy drive (they weren't the first to put it in a computer, I think that was IBM), but they were the first to make the market realize that it's a great technology and people should be using it. Same goes with the mouse, the all-in-one computing design (arguable, but some people like it), USB, MP3 Players, aesthetically pleasing user interface with visual feedback, etc.

Apple may not invent a lot of technologies, but they're definately the head hancho in innovation. Microsoft's always in the back, jumping up and down yelling "Me too!"

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by turtle777

Apple made major improvements and/or inventions.

Mighty Mouse: scroll ball

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

You are not serious, right ?

There is a world of difference in implementation.

-t

[TETENAL]

Differences in implementation of the scroll ball? Not that I can tell.

ps:
Oh yeah, now I see what you mean. The Trust's scroll ball can be removed for cleaning.

[mdc]

this just keeps getting better. that "start your copiers" quote could not have been more on target.

(image)Layout of standard folders is changing. User data is now stored in directories like c:\users\john\ rather than c:\documents and settings\john\

(image)this is just ugly, that's all

(image)The "Rolodex" or "Flip 3-D" view, activated by pressing Windows+spacebar, stacks and rotates windows in 3-D. Even video playing within an application window appears live and in perspective.
like expose sort of thing? i don't like this implementation. it seems like you'd have to press windows+spacebar and spacebar and spacebar until you get to the window you want.

i'm glad to see that microsoft is innovating the operating system industry once again.