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Do you agree with Bill Cosby? (Page 2)
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My mothers mothers uncles second cousin was black.
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I just read this this morning in a book. I agree with Bill Cosby because I feel like he's giving a somewhat accurate portrayal of the situation. I don't think that if Black people started speaking better English tomorrow that all their problems would be solved.
I tend to think that there still are racial discriminations happening about in business, government, and private situations. However, I don't think it's fair anymore for a black person to blame all of his problems on discrimination.
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Originally Posted by Rumor
My mothers mothers uncles second cousin was black.
Nearly EVERY white person in America has some black blood in their heritage.
BTW: It looked so nice I'll post it twice.
I'd agree. And furthermore, the idea of adopting the perceived "white" value system is discredited early on by those who mistake the real road to happiness.
Their rejection of the "white" value system is where the main problem starts
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Originally Posted by wallinbl
BS. I worked and borrowed my way through college. There are plenty of grants and scholarships available. There are even more available to you if you are poor (Pell Grants, etc). If you want a degree, you can get one. Money is not an issue.
I'm just talking about financial aid offered directly from the school to an incoming freshman. My test scores and promising future mean nothing simply because I'm white. Tell me that isn't discrimination.
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Originally Posted by lothar56
I'm just talking about financial aid offered directly from the school to an incoming freshman. My test scores and promising future mean nothing simply because I'm white. Tell me that isn't discrimination.
It never hurts to look at life from a more charitable perspective. Hypothetically speaking, it may have been much harder for somebody else to get to where they were in their education than it was for you given your circumstances. Sometimes education costs money (depending on what field you are studying, of course).
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I agree with Bill Cosby. I applaud him for speaking out, He is trying to help his race in a positive manner. One that doesn't make his living off the situation.
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I had agreed with some of what Bill Cosby said before, but attacking a language/dialect as people speak it is bunk, as any linguist will tell you. Black American English (or whatever folks choose to call it) is a language with its own regularities. There are things any of its speakers will say and things they will never say. The difference between it and Standard English or Arabic or Japanese is that the rules aren't written down.
That said, Black English not likely to become formalized, so it behooves its speakers to learn Standard American English as well. But there is a serious problem when educators thinking that someone who speaks Black English is just too dumb to speak Standard. And if those mistaken educators discourage kids for a while, they reach a serious disadvantage when they get beyond the age at which people learn languages easily.
But I don't know why I'm even jumping into this thread. Most of the comments are too idiotic to merit a response.
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Originally Posted by slugslugslug
I had agreed with some of what Bill Cosby said before, but attacking a language/dialect as people speak it is bunk, as any linguist will tell you. Black American English (or whatever folks choose to call it) is a language with its own regularities. There are things any of its speakers will say and things they will never say. The difference between it and Standard English or Arabic or Japanese is that the rules aren't written down.
That said, Black English not likely to become formalized, so it behooves its speakers to learn Standard American English as well. But there is a serious problem when educators thinking that someone who speaks Black English is just too dumb to speak Standard. And if those mistaken educators discourage kids for a while, they reach a serious disadvantage when they get beyond the age at which people learn languages easily.
But I don't know why I'm even jumping into this thread. Most of the comments are too idiotic to merit a response.
I think the language issue was only a tip of the iceberg of what Cosby was trying to say. He was basically saying that the black community is passing up the opportunity to acquire an education that earlier generations of blacks worked very hard to develop.
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Originally Posted by besson3c
It never hurts to look at life from a more charitable perspective. Hypothetically speaking, it may have been much harder for somebody else to get to where they were in their education than it was for you given your circumstances. Sometimes education costs money (depending on what field you are studying, of course).
I do agree with you there. I've had very supportive parents and I owe them a lot in terms of their continued support and encouragement (emotionally and developmentally, mind you, I'm paying my own way through college). But my dad's brother adopted several Korean children, one of whom is currently going to the same school as I am, except she's on a full ride because her real parents were not American. Without actually seeing her, you'd never know she wasn't an American, but she is still given special priviliges. I know a girl here who is 1/16 Native American, and is receiving financial support for that. I think that is getting a bit ridiculous. If you want to offer support to those who have struggled and fought to be where they are, I applaud that. But throwing money to someone simply because of their skin color, eye shape, or nationality of one of their great-great grandparents is just wrong.
To be a little bit more on topic I blame MTV. They are the soul source of this country's demise.
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Originally Posted by ambush
Cute!
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America should know the political orientation of government officials who might be in a position to adversely influence the future of this country. http://tinyurl.com/4vucu5
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Originally Posted by lothar56
I do agree with you there. I've had very supportive parents and I owe them a lot in terms of their continued support and encouragement (emotionally and developmentally, mind you, I'm paying my own way through college). But my dad's brother adopted several Korean children, one of whom is currently going to the same school as I am, except she's on a full ride because her real parents were not American. Without actually seeing her, you'd never know she wasn't an American, but she is still given special priviliges. I know a girl here who is 1/16 Native American, and is receiving financial support for that. I think that is getting a bit ridiculous. If you want to offer support to those who have struggled and fought to be where they are, I applaud that. But throwing money to someone simply because of their skin color, eye shape, or nationality of one of their great-great grandparents is just wrong.
I can agree with you here, now that you have qualified this a bit further....
To be a little bit more on topic I blame MTV. They are the soul source of this country's demise.
How so?
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Originally Posted by Salty
I'm amazed SWG remembers someone from 2001...
You calling me dumb?
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Originally Posted by besson3c
I think the language issue was only a tip of the iceberg of what Cosby was trying to say. He was basically saying that the black community is passing up the opportunity to acquire an education that earlier generations of blacks worked very hard to develop.
Well, yeah, he certainly has his points. But he kinda shoots himself in the foot to say that Black English is "crap", when the idea that it's somehow a lesser language has been debunked by linguists. I think John McWhorter, a very eloquent black American linguist would agree with Cosby on a lot of the "stop blaming whitey" bits but shudder at his tired old making-fun-of-street-language schtick.
[Edit: of course I had to google it and discovered that McWhorter brushed off part of it: "Cosby’s not a professional scholar, and so naturally some of what he said does not stack up to scientific evidence." He's mostly pro-Cos.
Also: My dad looks a lot like Bill Cosby, but not black]
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Last edited by slugslugslug; Mar 22, 2006 at 12:51 AM.
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Originally Posted by slugslugslug
Well, yeah, he certainly has his points. But he kinda shoots himself in the foot to say that Black English is "crap", when the idea that it's somehow a lesser language has been debunked by linguists. I think John McWhorter, a very eloquent black American linguist would agree with Cosby on a lot of the "stop blaming whitey" bits but shudder at his tired old making-fun-of-street-language schtick.
You're missing his point regarding language. Plain (non-Black) English is a language that the successful people in America speak. Some blacks are refusing to learn this language, whether as a second or first language. As a result, colleges and employers become turned off by it. You wouldn't hire someone that only spoke Spanish, and in the same way, many wouldn't hire someone that only spoke in the slang riddled Black English (Ebonics, whatever it is). If you're more exposed to it, you might understand it and think it's easily interpreted, but many people don't. Heck, I can't even understand guys like Jim Rome, who is a white guy with his own sports language.
There may be linguistic merit to the language, but that's irrelevant. It's about as useful to getting a job or an education in this country as is Portuguese.
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Check this out. Monique actually thinks I made some racist comment about french canadians (if you read my post I actually stick up for them) and now I am her #1 new enemy.
"I will write anything negative about Canada as long as I want.
You are a joke and extremely racist, comments about my French side proves it.
And I worked for Telus during 4 years and had calls from ignorants like you who would tell me every day that I should go back to my country because I have an accent.
My family has been in Canada since 1629.
And if you hate me so much get me the papers that will allow me to move to Europe.
Until then just don't read my posts if you are such a jerk that you cannot take any criticism or read what is wrong with your country.
I am sure you are more than generous to tell what is wrong with the United States or any other country.
I would meet you on the streets and you would beat me up because I dare criticize Canada.
You know what Canada from my point of view is a lousy country I hate it for the following reasons: I was rape in your beautiful country.
I was attack by a crazy person because I touch her bag.
I had to get food at a food bank.
I was verbally assaulted every day because I could not find any phone numbers because the phone number did not exist, the person was spelling me the name wrong, or the phone was disconnected, I would tell them I am sorry I do not have this phone number, then I was called a bitch, stupid, moron, tramp, I did not know how to speak in English, etc.
People like you verbally assaulted me for the longest time and as a good little Canadian I was supposed to take it and smiled.
You might love to abuse people but I have the right not to like being abused.
I am sure you cannot understand that, that you cannot put yourself in my shoes. But, I post on an American board so I am free to say whatever I want whenever. And you are free not to read my stuff."
Yes Monique, I AM THE ONE with the racist and hate issues
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Hold on a second... you were RAPED, SWG?!
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Originally Posted by ambush
WTF.. is Dark Helmet SWG?
Yes. And being a Canadian I am responsible for monique getting raped and losing her job according to her.
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Last edited by Dark Helmet; Mar 22, 2006 at 10:49 AM.
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Originally Posted by Dark Helmet
Check this out. Monique actually thinks I made some racist comment about french canadians (if you read my post I actually stick up for them) and now I am her #1 new enemy.
Did you just publicly post a PM? That's not cool.
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Yes he did, and I sent him this private message because I wanted to vent against him privatly not publicaly. And Dark Helmet post under 2 names.
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SWG posts under a lot more than two names…
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Were you raped by a woman?
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People use PMs just to not look like a douche in public half the time though.
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Originally Posted by Monique
Yes he did, and I sent him this private message because I wanted to vent against him privatly not publicaly. And Dark Helmet post under 2 names.
Like you said "It is an American Board and I can post what I like".
You PM to me was rude, disturbing and totally unwarrented. If you're going to play big shot don't hide behind PM's.
You care to point out where I made fun of your french heratage?
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Dark helmet or whoever you are today:
By the way heratage is written heritage. Also, yes I have a right to criticize my own language and as you do about yours. Then again, if you do not like what I say do not read them. And who is hiding, can't you have only one nickname?
People like always tell others no you cannot do this or that, in my criticism of Canada it is never against one particular person if you see yourself in it that is another story.
And my English is certainly better than your French.
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No!! Only a modorator can tell me what to do on this board. If I have something really negative to say to someone I do it under a private message not in public.
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Originally Posted by Dark Helmet
Check this out. Monique actually thinks I made some racist comment about french canadians (if you read my post I actually stick up for them) and now I am her #1 new enemy.
"I will write anything negative about Canada as long as I want.
You are a joke and extremely racist, comments about my French side proves it.
And I worked for Telus during 4 years and had calls from ignorants like you who would tell me every day that I should go back to my country because I have an accent.
My family has been in Canada since 1629.
And if you hate me so much get me the papers that will allow me to move to Europe.
Until then just don't read my posts if you are such a jerk that you cannot take any criticism or read what is wrong with your country.
I am sure you are more than generous to tell what is wrong with the United States or any other country.
I would meet you on the streets and you would beat me up because I dare criticize Canada.
You know what Canada from my point of view is a lousy country I hate it for the following reasons: I was rape in your beautiful country.
I was attack by a crazy person because I touch her bag.
I had to get food at a food bank.
I was verbally assaulted every day because I could not find any phone numbers because the phone number did not exist, the person was spelling me the name wrong, or the phone was disconnected, I would tell them I am sorry I do not have this phone number, then I was called a bitch, stupid, moron, tramp, I did not know how to speak in English, etc.
People like you verbally assaulted me for the longest time and as a good little Canadian I was supposed to take it and smiled.
You might love to abuse people but I have the right not to like being abused.
I am sure you cannot understand that, that you cannot put yourself in my shoes. But, I post on an American board so I am free to say whatever I want whenever. And you are free not to read my stuff."
Yes Monique, I AM THE ONE with the racist and hate issues
I received virtually the same PM when she disagreed with my views.
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Originally Posted by Monique
By the way heratage is written heritage. Also, yes I have a right to criticize my own language and as you do about yours. Then again, if you do not like what I say do not read them. And who is hiding, can't you have only one nickname?
Me hiding? My sig links right to my website. If that is too complicated click here and go to the contact page.
www.bitflydesign.com
Talk to you soon.
P.s What ever happended to you "never reading another one of my posts"?
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Last edited by Dark Helmet; Mar 22, 2006 at 04:49 PM.
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SWG, I'd edit that post and delete the personal info.
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Originally Posted by abe
Nearly EVERY white person in America has some black blood in their heritage.
BTW: It looked so nice I'll post it twice.
I'd agree. And furthermore, the idea of adopting the perceived "white" value system is discredited early on by those who mistake the real road to happiness.
Their rejection of the "white" value system is where the main problem starts
Whoever said I was white?
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Monique,
I'm sure that your experiences in Canada have been traumatic. I'm sorry that life has been rough on you.
However, as a Canadian living in America, I'd like to point out that crazy people exist in any country. Bad work experiences exist in any country. Abusive behavior towards the French definitely exists here, particularly in red states. We also have rapists (the percentage of violent crime per capita is actually higher here, so you might even encounter more rapists here depending on where you live).
Could it be that the source of your horrible experiences is not a country problem, but a people problem? In a country of 30 million (Canada) or 300 million (the USA), you are going to have these people problems.
Guys, cut her a little slack. I agree that her accusations were misguided, but there is nothing to gain in seeking "revenge" on her by trying to make her look silly. Just let it go.
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Originally Posted by slugslugslug
Well, yeah, he certainly has his points. But he kinda shoots himself in the foot to say that Black English is "crap", when the idea that it's somehow a lesser language has been debunked by linguists. I think John McWhorter, a very eloquent black American linguist would agree with Cosby on a lot of the "stop blaming whitey" bits but shudder at his tired old making-fun-of-street-language schtick.
[Edit: of course I had to google it and discovered that McWhorter brushed off part of it: "Cosby’s not a professional scholar, and so naturally some of what he said does not stack up to scientific evidence." He's mostly pro-Cos.
Also: My dad looks a lot like Bill Cosby, but not black]
The point is that in an "US vs Them" society until you have reached a point where you have economic equality or parity the fact remains that for you to gain acceptance you have to exhibit your values such that the people choosing members for their team will see you are one of theirs.
Drug dealer = Not one of theirs.
Pimp = Not one of theirs.
Rap Artists = Not one of theirs.
Uneducated = Not one of theirs.
Might be violent or law breaker = Not one of theirs.
You look like that, you sound like that, you act like that and you just disqualified yourself.
Go get a job with Death Row records or the NY Knicks.
But more likely you will be doing drugs and runnin some kind of game.
Dead end.
Listen to Bill Cosby.
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Originally Posted by Dakar
People use PMs just to not look like a douche in public half the time though.
That may be, but I would hope people use PMs so that we don't have to read through an entire page of bitching and whining between two people that completely derailed a thread.
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Originally Posted by Monique
He is right whatever the language you speak, the young people are getting lazier and lazier and do not want to make an effort to speak properly.
We have the same problem in French Canada, the same problem in France.
It should always be unacceptable to speak slang.
Ah it happens in Canada too I know. I wonder why certain Canadians just pointed out white Americans.
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Originally Posted by I Bent My Wookiee
Why do I care? Because in 2000 - 2001 you took every chance you could to bash Canada on these boards and say you were moving to the US because it is better.
Originally Posted by I Bent My Wookiee
None of my business? You filled the boards for years with your HATE for Canada publicly over and over making it everyone's business.
Well you do the SAME THING but EVERY DAY, cept you aren't moving. What's the difference?
Maybe you could just get your whole xenophobic anti-American chip of your shoulder for once.
And THEN you'd have room to be talking about Monique's chip.
Till then, you are just being a hypocrite.
Please show me one example of me being racist, full of hate and now accepting criticism.
Racist? maybe not. Full of hate and xenophobic yes .
Not that I am taking up for Mon. But you are just like her SWG, and you don't realize it.
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Originally Posted by wallinbl
Did you just publicly post a PM? That's not cool.
No, it's not. Not that SWG has any shame. So might as well not even bring it up. It wont effect him.
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I don't see the harm in posting the PM when everyone she disagrees with (mostly everyone) will eventually receive the same PM anyways And if it was such a secret she wouldn't be sending it to complete strangers over the net anyways.
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Not everyone just those Canadians that tell me rudly to get out of my country because I happen to give a negative spin to Canada. And, I tried to explain why from my point of view I hate living here. But since many Canadians are too thick about understanding why I want to get out, they send hateful replies.
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Originally Posted by Monique
Not everyone just those Canadians that tell me rudly to get out of my country because I happen to give a negative spin to Canada. And, I tried to explain why from my point of view I hate living here. But since many Canadians are too thick about understanding why I want to get out, they send hateful replies.
But as someone else pointed out, being harassed, talked poorly about and being raped has nothing to do with the country, it has to do with a few negative experiences which most everyone has witnessed or been apart of. These things happen, they happen in every country all over the world, get over it. If you find the people in alberta to talk negatively about the french, move to quebec etc. I'm sure you'll find just as many jackasses there, or in the US, or England, or China....
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This is not this simple. I need a job because I got use to eat and having a roof over my head and I am not about to starve. Anyway, I prefer the cultures in Europe than in Canada. FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, I would be happier being able to go to the National Gallery in London or Le Louvre in Paris but it is extremely hard to get papers to immigrate to these countries.
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It is surprising to me that Monique can even take HERSELF seriously. I mean out of the blue she calls me racist, close minded and hateful. Then she even suggests it is my fault "canada raped her".
Take a look a the threads she has started:
Why I am a Jew today
"I said hell no, I do not forgive, forget and believe in revenge if I can get it.
It is that kind of crap amongst many other things that turned me off from Christianity."
Have to go back to hell after lock-out!!
"I hate so much that job when I learned that a bunch of scared people voted for it; I cried and got drunk."we have to go back to the very abusive workplace I so learned to hate."
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=276403
What is patriotism?
"In my case I do hate living in Canada and saying so should be my prerogative."
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=102093
Are the following the same person:davevesimondotcon, itistoday...
"neelk, gomac, ibentmywookie, supermario, olepigeon, wdlove, itail95, dakar, stevelosell, rumor, kronos, ambush.
And if it is you are talking to yourself like different personalities."
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...26#post2924326
Canada day
"I got verbally abused most of the evening last night!
Sometimes I just want to end it all.
I guess that what Canadian abuse do to you after a while."
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=261874
Lost my job/wish I was an American!
"it is very hard to find a job in Canada; wish I was living in the States where it is easier.
There is no recession; it is in people's heads; you guys are talking yourselves into one."
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=106222
I hate my co-workers
"I do hate my co-workers L and A they are ennoying and think they are better than the rest of the world.
They think they know better at 25 and 18 than people in their forties. They are so politically correct that it makes me want to throw up.
Especially A. she looks at me saying I am better than you and you are dirt. I hate her and I want her to drop dead.
No way you would ever work for them because you have the good sense of living in the United States and have the opportunity to have a great job."
Can anyone help me??
"Can anyone help me in the United States to escape Canada and have a better life in the United States.
I am so f... tired of living here."
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=71920
Canadians are so narrow minded!
"I have to say this to someone who can understand, which would be an American. If not I am going to scream. Well I can't in Canada.
And by the way in my heart and soul I am an open minded, generous, in your face American just I cannot live in the U.S. because I do not have the papers.
Have you ever noticed that talking to a Canadian it is like talking to a wall where there is no possibility of an open discussion. Canadians are this is it and nothing else. They are polite and so narrow minded. They think so much that the world wants to be like them even though no one really wants to be like them. "
Yes a very baad day with those darn Canadians. Anyway for me every day in Canada is a bad day.
Slavery existed in Canada but they were polite about it so I guess it is OK.
There are as many murders, rapes, robberies, assaults in Canada than in the United States.
So what if I hate Canada why can't you accept that fact. Do you really think that everybody is perfect in Canada.
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=71918
So the question is. WHO is the racist hatefilled one here? If you don't like Canada I could give a ****, the problem is you have a bad experiance in your town and you blame every Canadian.
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"She's gone from suck to blow!"
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Helmet or wookie, I thought you wanted me to leave you alone, don't you have anything to do then to go through my old posts. Kevin is right you have huge problems. Obviously you were the wrong person to try to explain why I want to leave Canada. You have no compassion. From my point of view, if you have a great life good for you, but I do not and it is extremely childish on your part to obsess about me. You made stupid comments about my being French, maybe you thought it was funny then you told me that I cannot speak English, this is racist. I never heard you write and speak in French.
So I made 20 comments, big deal, why are you obsessing about those.
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Originally Posted by Monique
Helmet or wookie, I thought you wanted me to leave you alone, don't you have anything to do then to go through my old posts. Kevin is right you have huge problems. Obviously you were the wrong person to try to explain why I want to leave Canada. You have no compassion. From my point of view, if you have a great life good for you, but I do not and it is extremely childish on your part to obsess about me. You made stupid comments about my being French, maybe you thought it was funny then you told me that I cannot speak English, this is racist. I never heard you write and speak in French.
So I made 20 comments, big deal, why are you obsessing about those.
Bullshit. I made no comments about french people. YOU commented first about others language skills and you being french can't even say "French Canadian's" properly which is scary.
Then you send me a few PM's, publically call me "Hateful, racist and close minded". Your previous threads show you are a total hypocrite.
You say I am obsessed with you and then you start a thread about me, tell me 3 times you are never reading another post of mine (your up to 4 BTW).
"So I made 20 comments, big deal, why are you obsessing about those."
Um, hello.. I made ONE post originally that had nothing to do with you.
Get a grip, thearapy or move to the US where everyone is employed, not racist and nobody ever gets raped.
And stop sending me more hateful PM's.
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Last edited by Dark Helmet; Mar 23, 2006 at 12:59 PM.
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"She's gone from suck to blow!"
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Ferme la bouche, monique.
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Dark, it's also wise not to make spelling mistakes when pointing out other people doing the same
that would make you a hypocrite.
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You will see, helmet/wookie
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Originally Posted by Monique
You will see, helmet/wookie
See what? You talking cryptic now?
And what ever happend to... "This is the last communication I will have with you and I am very glad."
I let the matter drop and she still sends PM's and starts a thread about me?
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Last edited by Dark Helmet; Mar 23, 2006 at 01:08 PM.
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"She's gone from suck to blow!"
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Originally Posted by Binarymix
Dark, it's also wise not to make spelling mistakes when pointing out other people doing the same
that would make you a hypocrite.
I don't care about spelling, she jumps on me telling me my wonderful country raped her and the other rude crap she spewed about me in her PM's and posts.
But thanks
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Originally Posted by Dark Helmet
I don't care about spelling, she jumps on me telling me my wonderful country raped her and the other rude crap she spewed about me in her PM's and posts.
But thanks
Ah, sorry, but you're too late. Her PM love affair was with me first
Maybe if willing, she can be our official fag hag?
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