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Apple TV (Page 2)
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Originally Posted by osxpinot
I can get a 1.25ghz Mini on eBay for $350 and slap on an ir sensor and wireless keyboard/mouse for $50. That's $100 more and I have a set-top box that can play DVDs, Xvid, DivX, buy movies from the TV, watch youtube or google video, and do a multitude of other things the AppleTV cannot.
No front row would kill it for me.
I'm not a student, I don't need a keyboard and mouse in my living room.
And no smart way of syncing up that Media mini with my main Mac would also kill it for me.
Yes, you can make it work. But if I have to spend 5 hours on it, it's not worth it.
I'm making more money while working than I could ever save on that DIY.
-t
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Originally Posted by osxpinot
The iPod introduced a totally new interface to navigate through music. Furthermore, it was the first major MP3 player that didn't use a laptop hard drive and made portable enough to fit in one's pocket. That is why it is revolutionary, whether people saw it then or not.
AppleTV on the otherhand does not introduce anything that's not been done by the market. That's the big difference.
Nice backpedaling but no. Remember how people said "but but iPod is just a MP3 player, nothing revolutionary about that!"
It's all about how the product is designed, it doesn't necessarily have to be revolutionary to take over the market.
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Originally Posted by scottiB
Do a forum search for October 2001, and you'll see how the iPod was received. Even among us Mac users, it was probably a 70 vs. 30 ratio for condemnation.
The recurring theme: the iPod doesn't introduce anything that's not been done by the market. And it's overpriced.
I know what people said, and I said why I think they were wrong. You give no merits on why the AppleTV is revolutionary....just go look at past forum posts.
If what you are getting at is that the Apple TV is somehow going to surprise me and be revolutionary in 4 year, well we'll see. But I think you're dead wrong.
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Originally Posted by Adam Betts
Nice backpedaling but no. Remember how people said "but but iPod is just a MP3 player, nothing revolutionary about that!"
It's all about how the product is designed, it doesn't necessarily have to be revolutionary to take over the market.
And the iTV is not designed exceptionally well. Lots of other companies have their pretty media center set top interfaces. They're all easy to use and pretty much the same. The AppleTV is not a lot different.
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Originally Posted by turtle777
No front row would kill it for me.
I'm not a student, I don't need a keyboard and mouse in my living room.
And no smart way of syncing up that Media mini with my main Mac would also kill it for me.
Yes, you can make it work. But if I have to spend 5 hours on it, it's not worth it.
I'm making more money while working than I could ever save on that DIY.
-t
Front row is going to be built in to leopard and it can be downloaded right now.
Introducing this syncing into the argument is absurd. You are expecting the settop box to take a role of a computer by doing that. I'm simply stating that the mini could be a replacement for the AppleTV. If it is do the same role as the AppleTV it does not need to be synced with other computers.
It wouldn't take 5 hours. Get a mini and possibly install front row. Woo hoo.
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Originally Posted by osxpinot
And the iTV is not designed exceptionally well. Lots of other companies have their pretty media center set top interfaces. They're all easy to use and pretty much the same. The AppleTV is not a lot different.
As easy as this?
If no, this should shut you up:
http://www.apple.com/appletv/tour.html
Look at tv remote control and tell me it's not revolutionary.
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Originally Posted by osxpinot
Introducing this syncing into the argument is absurd. You are expecting the settop box to take a role of a computer by doing that. I'm simply stating that the mini could be a replacement for the AppleTV. If it is do the same role as the AppleTV it does not need to be synced with other computers.
It wouldn't take 5 hours. Get a mini and possibly install front row. Woo hoo.
Well then do it and stop bothering us.
The syncing argument is very well important. How do you keep track of all your media files in a home with many computers ? AppleTV can access media from up to 5 computers (IIRC), show me how your mini will do this.
-t
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Originally Posted by osxpinot
I know what people said, and I said why I think they were wrong. You give no merits on why the AppleTV is revolutionary....just go look at past forum posts.
If what you are getting at is that the Apple TV is somehow going to surprise me and be revolutionary in 4 year, well we'll see. But I think you're dead wrong.
I never tried to point out that TV was revolutionary (nor did I posit that), just that you have a selective memory. Did you defend the iPod in 2001 and tell all that it was revolutionary? Did you come here and to /. and to Ars and write that the iPod was the best MP3 player introduced with as much fervor as you dash the TV?
Regardless, I'm buying an TV for the following reasons:
When I tossed my VCR in the trash, I bought a Miglia Alchemy card for my G4 to capture SD televison. From the .movs captured, I'd edit out commericals in iMovie, create a nice DVD menu in iDVD, burned, and repeated. I captured seasons of 24, Alias, Enterprise (ahem), and Lost. I was a bad a$$. I did, though, have no life.
So now, I can capture my shows in MPEG-4 (or encode them once with to 480p spec in QT Pro), stream them to an iTV, and be done. My only limit is hard drive space, and that's cheap compared to my time. I couldn't care less if you feel it's revolutionary. It makes my life easier, and that's revolutionary enough. Worth $299 (considering I spent $499 on a 10GB 1st Gen iPod in 2002).
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does the apple tv output at 1080i or only up to 720p? (my tv only does 1080 not 720)
what resolutions would tv shows output at? would they look as good as high def? (assuming no but doesnt hurt to ask)
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Apple TV supports 1080i 60/50Hz, 720p 60/50Hz, 576p 50Hz (PAL format), or 480p 60Hz as output resolutions.
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Originally Posted by Adam Betts
Look at tv remote control and tell me it's not revolutionary.
It's not revolutionary.
MythTV does all that and oh so much more. ( )
You can use your IR remote to go from watching a DVD in a drive, to watching movies (in ANY format) on any network share, to watching TV that was recorded earlier, to playing MAME games, listening to music or browsing the web (including YouTube).
The only thing that sucks is setting it up the first time, and the lack of digital sound (or, rather, finding a nice looking, small computer that has all the correct outputs). It's strange that no company has put all of these things together. It would sell like crazy.
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One thing I don't get about this thing.... I understand that h.264 allows super compression, bla bla bla, but what I am not understanding is AUDIO.
It has an optical audio port, which to me means surround sound. However... are ANY of the movies available on itunes, any of the TV shows encoded in surround sound? Is that even possible? I know that ... well, pretty much any movie I can download off the internet anywhere does NOT have surround sound. Right?
And if I DID have a dvd of a movie, that had surround sound, I can't put it on the iTv because there's no freaking optical drive. That's a huge error to me. I think they should have just updated the mini with more iTV features, instead of producing this thing. This is basically a mac mini, minus USB ports, minus the optical drive, with built in WIFI and a remote.
So why does this have an optical port? To me, the AppleTV would be much handier if it had a DVD drive for at least playing DVDs, then you could chuck your DVD player and replace it with this thing, which is a very powerful, versatile and affordable option.
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nevermind. damnit.
i was going to bitch about the footprint size not matching that of the mini. you could stack the mini and the iTV together and be able to get the best of both worlds. but since they don't match, stacking them will like hell.
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Originally Posted by goMac
It's kinda weird. I would like a TV tuner. A few weeks ago I was in Cupertino talking to an Apple engineer, and I mentioned how I wanted the iTV to have a tuner. He asked why I would have cable anyway when I could just get all my shows off of iTunes. It's a good point, but I still like the channel surfing.
Local channels, live sports, channels not on iTMS. Steve and Apple are smoking crack if they think iTunes will replace cable or satellite anytime soon, especially if 720P is the highest it will do.
I would have expected this to have inputs for cable/sat so that you could not only have computer>>TV, but TV inputs>>computer to use it as a DVR or watch Top Chef on my computer while surfing the internet. This is like an easier to use, more expensive, but featureless XBOX 360 or linksys.
So we're supposed to get excited every time apple comes out with a new appliance just because it's by apple? I can't wait for the overpriced Apple iToaster and Apple Office iChair. But the apple way of making toast is so much more refined, it will revolutionize the toast world!
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i bet you with a little bit of tinkering, it would receive wireless or wired streams from another computer that has a tuner card (or dvd playing, etc)...
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I've been waiting for the Apple TV for years. Literally. And I must say that I may be disappointed when it's all said and done. Will probably get one anyway, but I have some reservations. Unlike some others, I never had any expectation that this would be the media center that does everything. I never expected it to be a DVR or a DVD player. It's an iTunes player ... plain and simple. But the problem is that it may not even be that. From what I gather, it appears to only play formats that the iPod can play. But the interface is essentially an upgraded Front Row, which can play anything that QuickTime can play. So the million dollar question is whether or not WMV or DivX content can be played on this device? If not, what is the point in limiting the number of formats that the device can play especially since QT can do it easily with the right codec installed?s It would have been nice it could play VIDEO_TS files as well so one could access ripped DVDs, but I can understand how offering that functionality may be legally risky. But I don't understand not allowing it to play anything QT can play at all.
OAW
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Originally Posted by centerchannel68
One thing I don't get about this thing.... I understand that h.264 allows super compression, bla bla bla, but what I am not understanding is AUDIO.
It has an optical audio port, which to me means surround sound. However... are ANY of the movies available on itunes, any of the TV shows encoded in surround sound? Is that even possible? I know that ... well, pretty much any movie I can download off the internet anywhere does NOT have surround sound. Right?
And if I DID have a dvd of a movie, that had surround sound, I can't put it on the iTv because there's no freaking optical drive. That's a huge error to me. I think they should have just updated the mini with more iTV features, instead of producing this thing. This is basically a mac mini, minus USB ports, minus the optical drive, with built in WIFI and a remote.
So why does this have an optical port? To me, the AppleTV would be much handier if it had a DVD drive for at least playing DVDs, then you could chuck your DVD player and replace it with this thing, which is a very powerful, versatile and affordable option.
I imagine the next thing (very soon) will be 720p movies with surround sound from the iTunes store.
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I am kinda outa the loop on quality of inputs I just use red, green and blue to my plasma...
I was thinking of hooking my mini up till this came out. My questions is how much of a diffrence is there from VGA & DVI?
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Originally Posted by awaspaas
I imagine the next thing (very soon) will be 720p movies with surround sound from the iTunes store.
I'm not sure that's possible.
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Originally Posted by awaspaas
Is there such thing as a 4:3 tv that accepts component or HDMI?
I have one with component.
-Owl
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Most (if not all) HD Movie trailers currently on apples website have 5.1 AAC audio.
New High Def formats use 5.1 AAC also, and they can output to our current Dolby Digital Receivers.
The XBox 360 already has downloads for full HD movies, so image size / file size can be done too.
So yes, it is possible. Just not currently what is offered.
-Owl
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This is a funny footnote since the TV is made for "widescreen TVs"
* Video capacity based on H.264 1.5-Mbps video at 640-by-480 resolution combined with 128-Kbps audio. Actual capacity varies by content.
Also, what is up with this? Required?
Internet access is required and a broadband connection is recommended.
-Owl
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Does anyone else think that the version of Frontrow on this thing is ugly? Square selection boxes and just standard list views. And is it still like the current Frontrow in that you can't browse your photos, only watch slideshows? I want to be able browse them ala iphoto but fullscreen on the TV.
I think I'd never buy it anyway, I just attach my macbook to the TV. The lack of any videos being sold on iTunes outside of the US will be a deal breaker for many, I'm sure.
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Originally Posted by OAW
So the million dollar question is whether or not WMV or DivX content can be played on this device? If not, what is the point in limiting the number of formats that the device can play especially since QT can do it easily with the right codec installed?s It would have been nice it could play VIDEO_TS files as well so one could access ripped DVDs, but I can understand how offering that functionality may be legally risky. But I don't understand not allowing it to play anything QT can play at all.
There's nothing risky about playing "VIDEO_TS" files. They are just MPEG-2.
I'll be surprised if it can play WMV or DivX files. Apple deigned to play MP3 files on the iPod, but for some reason they refuse to use anything but Quicktime for video.
MythTV can play all codecs from all vendors (it's basically using MPLayer/VLC under the hood). It'll even rip DVDs to your hard disk for playback at any time in the future; all at the click of a button.
MythTV
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Originally Posted by centerchannel68
I'm not sure that's possible.
How's it not possible? They've been doing it with the trailers for months now.
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well, while it's certainly possible to have 5.1 AAC in a movie, that's different than having it playable in the tv. AAC is not a standard surround sound format, so receivers won't know how to decode it. For it to be playable by a receiver, the device would have to have a Dolby Digital Live chip or similar to reencode the AAC track to a Dolby Digital stream on the fly before outputting it to the receiver. As far as I know, the Apple TV (in its current incarnation, at least) does not have such a chip.
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Exactly. So waht the hell is the point of optical audio?
Seems to me, those in the 'projected userbase' of the iTV already probably have a surround sound system, or a home theater in box, that has an optical input. So yeah, you could hook it up, but what the hell is the point if it's not in surround sound? This is why I won't ever buy a movie from iTunes.... now getting a movie FREE, and it lacking surround, is not a problem.
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Originally Posted by centerchannel68
Exactly. So waht the hell is the point of optical audio?
Seems to me, those in the 'projected userbase' of the iTV already probably have a surround sound system, or a home theater in box, that has an optical input. So yeah, you could hook it up, but what the hell is the point if it's not in surround sound? This is why I won't ever buy a movie from iTunes.... now getting a movie FREE, and it lacking surround, is not a problem.
That indeed remains to be seen.
As for now, I can not take the AppleTV seriously for movies with surround sound. It's ok with TV series. But I prefer my DVD over anything from iTMS.
-t
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Anyway, even if it's just stereo or pro logic, doesn't having it be optical make the quality better than analog RCA cables? The Airport Express has an optical out (a combo miniplug) - I imagine having a regular optical out is less expensive and a little more standard than having one of those.
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Ditto. Hence why I'm gettinga 24" iMac. Optical out, a dvd drive, a huge screen, and surround sound.
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Originally Posted by ink
There's nothing risky about playing "VIDEO_TS" files. They are just MPEG-2.
I'll be surprised if it can play WMV or DivX files. Apple deigned to play MP3 files on the iPod, but for some reason they refuse to use anything but Quicktime for video.
MythTV can play all codecs from all vendors (it's basically using MPLayer/VLC under the hood). It'll even rip DVDs to your hard disk for playback at any time in the future; all at the click of a button.
MythTV
So what do you use as a remote for MythTV ?
You also need a TVcard, right, otherwise, most of the stuff doesn't make sense.
-t
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sorry if this has been answered, but:
Could I theoretically buy a $200 xbox 360 hd-dvd drive, plug it into my mac, and once leopard is released, stream HD-DVDs in 720p to my TV?
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Originally Posted by centerchannel68
Ditto. Hence why I'm gettinga 24" iMac. Optical out, a dvd drive, a huge screen, and surround sound.
Where does the surround sound come from ?
I would think that the optical out on an iMac would be the same as on AppleTV
-t
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Originally Posted by Weezer
sorry if this has been answered, but:
Could I theoretically buy a $200 xbox 360 hd-dvd drive, plug it into my mac, and once leopard is released, stream HD-DVDs in 720p to my TV?
Not without a hack. AppleTV can not even stream from a regular DVD in your Mac either. It has to be in iTunes first.
What would be really cool is if AppleTV could just mirror whatever is on the host Mac. Then playing any files and formats wouldn't be a problem. Sort of a remote display. But that's not what it is.
-t
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Optical audio is preferable for stereo only in that it eliminates the factor of the DAC. They can include a cheap DAC to appease people without a receiver for SPDIF, and the SPDIF output in lieu of an expensive DAC for people with discerning ears. The sound is going straight from the decompressed AAC (or AIFF, or Apple Lossless) file to the receiver's DAC.
And I have a feeling many people in this thread (Cash et al) are not really the target audience for this device. Many people don't care about picture or sound quality, or things like surround sound or high definition. I think Apple is banking on winning those people over with the convenience of the iTunes store for (perfectly viewable, even if not HD or surround sound) movies, and the TV show/music/photo features will make up for the low-quality movies for discerning viewers and still give the tv a selling point
edit: also note on the tech specs for the Apple TV that it will, in fact, play 720p24 h.264 files. Possibly a hint at things to come from the iTunes store?
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Originally Posted by turtle777
Where does the surround sound come from ?
I would think that the optical out on an iMac would be the same as on AppleTV
-t
a Mac's optical output will pass whatever audio stream is in a file out to the receiver. DTS, Dolby Digital, or stereo.
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iMac has a DVD drive. Hence, the optical output from an iMac IS the audio information encoded on the DVD, which is a standard.
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Originally Posted by turtle777
So what do you use as a remote for MythTV ?
You also need a TVcard, right, otherwise, most of the stuff doesn't make sense.
-t
Any computer-USB remote will work, as well as several tuner cards that come with a remote. Yes for TV functionality MythTV requires one or more tuner cards obviously. It can also accept the FireWire connection from a cable box.
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Well, it is prolly just to future proof it. So they can add functionality in the future if needed, and allow people who want to use it for audio.
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Originally Posted by centerchannel68
iMac has a DVD drive. Hence, the optical output from an iMac IS the audio information encoded on the DVD, which is a standard.
If it's that simple, then AppleTV should be able to do it. It should be able to stream the whole DVD stream, right ?
So Apple just doesn't want to do that ?
-t
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No, it won't. Reason being, is the bandwidth on the audio of a REAL dvd is pretty high.... it's 5 channels of high fidelity audio, all at once. This 5.1 AAC stuff, I've never heard of it before, but unless the iTV somehow decodes this AAC and then reencodes it to a standard optical audio format, it will not work.
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No, the Apple TV can't stream MPEG2, nor a DVD. It only supports various kinds of MPEG4. It remains to be seen whether it can be tricked into passing a DD or DTS stream out the optical port by muxing one in with an MPEG4 video stream, but that would never be an advertised feature since 99% of users would never do such a thing, and so we will have to wait until they get into people's hands to find out.
720p24 video with DD or DTS audio would be awesome, but it would really only appeal to the hacker/piracy community, since I doubt Apple will ever use DD for their iTunes movies (and definitely not DTS, which normally has a higher bitrate than the movies themselves)
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But then who is this for then? People who spend lots of money on music and movies, but don't have a surround system or speakers? Who the hell does that?
I don't see the point of this thing, if you own a surround sound system, or a serious set of speakers. Any movie you watch will have shitty audio.
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Originally Posted by centerchannel68
No, it won't. Reason being, is the bandwidth on the audio of a REAL dvd is pretty high.... it's 5 channels of high fidelity audio, all at once. This 5.1 AAC stuff, I've never heard of it before, but unless the iTV somehow decodes this AAC and then reencodes it to a standard optical audio format, it will not work.
Well, so since it can't stream my DivX, I'm not sure if I even need it.
Or I had to re-encode them to MP4.
Darn. I'd rather save the money for the iPhone.
-t
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Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Originally Posted by OwlBoy
That was never the issue. I know 5.1 AAC is pretty slim, but the only way this will work, with a surround system, is if the iTV takes the movie with the 5.1 AAC, decodes the AAC, then re-encodes it to a standard like DTS or Dolby Digital, all in real time, and puts it out the optical port.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Again, I think sound is an afterthought to most people. you'd be surprised how many people blow their budget on a TV only to use just the TV's speakers and nothing else. I'm not saying it's good for Apple to cater to that, but it is the bulk of the market.
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"I start fires!"
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Bandwidth isn't the issue with surround sound audio formats. A 128kbps stereo AAC track expanded to 5.1 would be 384kbps, or around 320 if they fake the .1 channel. A Dolby Digital stream is often right around 384kbps, or sometimes as high as 448kbps. I think the reason apple won't use DD for iTunes store movies is licensing... AAC is free.
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"I start fires!"
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Originally Posted by awaspaas
Is there such thing as a 4:3 tv that accepts component or HDMI?
I have on sitting in my living room. ANd I was so excited that I had component video and then I found out it has to be widescreen!!!!!!
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8GB iPhone
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Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2001
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Originally Posted by turtle777
So what do you use as a remote for MythTV ?
You also need a TVcard, right, otherwise, most of the stuff doesn't make sense.
You can use pretty much any universal remote, as long as you have an IR sensor. A TV card is required for TV playback; but a MythTV box can do everything that the iTV does and then some even without one.
Originally Posted by centerchannel68
So waht the hell is the point of optical audio?
You can decode more than 2 channels in software; I sincerely hope that Apple is allowing at least 5.1 audio out from the iTV. If not, then why would they bother putting an optical out port
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