[kikkoman]

From hometheaterhifi.com's iPod review:

"For me - and others I have spoken with (all PC users) - I would like the iPod to just show up as another drive on the computer. You copy your music files onto your computer into whatever directory you want, convert them to Apple Lossless or MP3, move them to a folder that you name whatever you want, then drag and drop the folders into the iPod. All the metadata (music track names, length of tracks, etc.) are attached to the music files, so they automatically go along with them into the folders. On the iPod, as a hard drive, you rename the folders anytime you want, rename the files (music tracks) anytime you want, delete files by highlighting them and pressing Delete. You move files between folders in the iPod, not in iTunes and having to click "Sync iPod". Bottom line: include both interfaces, the standard iTunes for users who like it, and the drag and drop to the iPod as a hard drive approach for the rest of us."

I'm not trying to bash people who like to do it this way, I just want to understand their preference. I like the way iTunes organizes files and folders on my hard drive, at least it's very easy to understand. I appreciate being free from the tedium of dealing with files, folders and trying to manually keep them synchornized with an iPod. What am I missing?

[Gossamer]

No one will admit software is smarter than they are.

[Chuckit]

When you use Windows, distrust of computers is natural.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

When you use Windows, distrust of computers is natural.

bingo.

[wallinbl]

It's the same thing Linux users want - control. They don't want it to be easier to use, they just want complete control. They never seem to understand that they're in the minority.

[peeb]

iRiver makes some mp3 players that work like this, a bunch of folks do. Buy one of those if you want to do this.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by analogika 

bingo.

2nded.

When I was a windows user I was paraniod about file management and folder placement. Windows scatters files all over the place and it is difficult to sort out, so with everything, I got paranoid about where my files were. I partitioned like crazy.

It took me about 3 days to get over this when I switched to OS X. OS 9 was OK, but it was still slightly similar to Win when it came to files.

Why would you want to rename your music files or folders anyway? Hmmm, I think "Metallica" should be called "never going to listen to, I don't know why its on here". Or, I think "James Taylor" should be called "Jimmy T.".

Oh wait, its really so they can copy the files by dragging them from their iPod onto their friend's computer. At least that's the only viable (albeit immoral, for the most part) reason I can think of wanting to do it.

[Visnaut]

Yeah, unfortunately, after many years of using WinAmp, people have convinced themselves that it's a superior method of managing your music.

Typically they either just listen to whole albums at a time, or drop a bunch of music folders onto it and then hit random.

And when they do try iTunes, they blindly click through all of the setup dialog boxes, allowing iTunes to move and re-organize their entire music library. And when they realize what's happened, they become infuriated that iTunes has destroyed their custom organization, and throw it out.

I've seen it time and time again.

I stopped caring where my music files are a long time ago (as long as they're in the iTunes folder, anyway).

The fact is too, you can use iTunes with your custom organization by just not allowing it to move files, and customizing the Library folder. You just can't start moving and renaming songs and albums, or else iTunes will lose track of them.

[Atheist]

I think it's more of a control issue. Windows users are used to having control over where things go, whereas OS X likes to think it knows what's best. For the most part I can deal with that but sometimes I wish I had more options with things like iMovie or iDVD. Try changing the location of your 'Movies' folder or changing where iDVD looks for project files. To this day I still haven't figured that out.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Visnaut 

The fact is too, you can use iTunes with your custom organization by just not allowing it to move files, and customizing the Library folder. You just can't start moving and renaming songs and albums, or else iTunes will lose track of them.

Yeah you can - on the Mac.

[SpaceMonkey]

I think it has to do with PC users' other media programs, as well. For example, most PC users are used to using something other than iTunes for burning CDs. So, out of habit or preference, when they continue to use other programs for doing things like burning CDs, editing MP3 tags, etc., they have a need to wade through the directory structure that iTunes creates, which makes them feel like they don't have any control.

[Wiskedjak]

This is not a PC vs. Mac thing. I'm a Mac user, and I don't like to let iTunes manage my music files. If more Mac users let iTunes control their music than PC users, it's only because Mac users are more accustomed to letting Macs be in control.

But, ultimately, as SpaceMonkey said, it comes down to the directory structure for me. The one that iTunes creates looks like it was designed by programmers and not interface designers.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

This is not a PC vs. Mac thing. I'm a Mac user, and I don't like to let iTunes manage my music files. If more Mac users let iTunes control their music than PC users, it's only because Mac users are more accustomed to letting Macs be in control.

But, ultimately, as SpaceMonkey said, it comes down to the directory structure for me. The one that iTunes creates looks like it was designed by programmers and not interface designers.

iPhoto, no?

'Cuz iTunes does "Album Artist"/"Album Title"/, which seems eminently reasonable to me - except of course, that one might like keeping folders arranged by genre.

OTOH, ever since iTunes, I find I have no need to interact with files at the directory level after they've been added to the library. Once the stuff is properly tagged, iTunes is just so much more effective than any file browser.

[Mediaman_12]

One thing it might come down to is that the said PC users may have a huge library of poorly tagged MP3's where the filenames/folders are used instead of the tags. When they install iTunes, and blindly let it organise the files, all the Mp3's end up in the 'unknown' folder.

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

This is not a PC vs. Mac thing. I'm a Mac user, and I don't like to let iTunes manage my music files. If more Mac users let iTunes control their music than PC users, it's only because Mac users are more accustomed to letting Macs be in control.

But, ultimately, as SpaceMonkey said, it comes down to the directory structure for me. The one that iTunes creates looks like it was designed by programmers and not interface designers.

This is the real BINGO.

I like to manage my tunes myself. I don't like how iTunes sorts it. I clean up/re-sort about once a year. I have a lot of individual tracks, I don't need single tracks nested two folders deep somewhere.

[ghporter]

Habit is a big part of it. Most things that run on Windows need manual control (at least a good bit of setup) to get them to work the way you want them, and after you get used to that you sort of stick with it. I am GLAD that iTunes handles everything for me on my PC because it's less for me to worry about.

[kikkoman]

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure 

I like to manage my tunes myself. I don't like how iTunes sorts it. I clean up/re-sort about once a year. I have a lot of individual tracks, I don't need single tracks nested two folders deep somewhere.

Ok so why does this matter to you? I guess I don't understand why anyone would want to use the Finder or Windows Explorer to interact with their music files because iTunes' interface can browse and search using the ID3 tags. It's much faster and a lot more flexible than the filesystem because it can exploit this metadata.

[Railroader]

All of my mp3s could be located in one huge folder, and I would still like the iTunes interface over any file management program out there.

Including the Finder. And especially Windows Explorer. Every time I use Explorer I die a little inside.

[Ganesha]

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure 

I like to manage my tunes myself. I don't like how iTunes sorts it. I clean up/re-sort about once a year. I have a lot of individual tracks, I don't need single tracks nested two folders deep somewhere.

Why do people insist on static hierarchical organization. You shouldn't care if your audio files are all in one directory or one thousand directories. What matters is the program that allows you to access them.

iTunes can show me all my songs at once or it can just show me some of my songs and sort them based on criteria of my choosing, I don't need or do I care, where they are in my file system because I do not interact with the files though the file system, I interact with them via iTunes.

[Wiskedjak]

I think you misunderstand. I use iTunes to access and interact with my music. I use Finder and Windows Explorer to store my music and move it between computers when necessary.

Sometimes, I'll even access my music from programs other than iTunes or import my music through programs other than iTunes. Not having my music organized by iTunes makes this a little bit easier.

[Wiskedjak]

I also don't download new versions of iTunes immediately [gasp]. I usually wait until I hear what Apple broke.

[kikkoman]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I think you misunderstand. I use iTunes to access and interact with my music. I use Finder and Windows Explorer to store my music and move it between computers when necessary.

Sometimes, I'll even access my music from programs other than iTunes or import my music through programs other than iTunes. Not having my music organized by iTunes makes this a little bit easier.

Ok that sounds reasonable. Can you give a specific example where iTunes directory structure makes it difficult for your use? I think most people can understand the Artist/Album/Track Title.mp3 convention. Also, in those rare cases where I needed to copy mp3 files I just search and drag them out from the iTunes window.

[birdman]

Originally Posted by kikkoman 

I guess I don't understand why anyone would want to use the Finder or Windows Explorer to interact with their music files because iTunes' interface can browse and search using the ID3 tags. It's much faster and a lot more flexible than the filesystem because it can exploit this metadata.

It's fast as long as you always have iTunes running or don't mind waiting for it to launch and sit through "loading iTunes library........................." every time you need to access an audio file. The iTunes library is accessible from inside iDVD and iMovie, which I very much like, but such is not the case for most other programs, like Amadeus, audacity, Toast, etc.

In my case, the habit of wanting control over my folder structure stems from my SoundJam days. As someone else mentioned, sometimes I want things sorted by artist, other times by genre. I don't care *which* symphony orchestra played my recording of Beethoven's 5th, hence an artist folder is useless to me; I'd rather have a "Classical/Instrumental" folder containing all such songs.

And I have scores of CDs by this mysterious "Original Broadway Cast" person. Back in the SoundJam days, that was simply in my "Showtunes" folder. Don't even get me started on this "Compilations" person who's authored countless albums. Nowadays I accomplish similar by having playlists, but there are times when I miss being able to go right to the file I wanted in the Finder without having to first launch iTunes, searching, and typing command-R.

Take this example: I have a recording of "Walking on Sunshine." In my SoundJam days, this was located in Macintosh HD/Documents/Music/Unsorted/Walking on Sunshine.mp3. Now, it's in Macintosh HD/Users/birdman/Music/iTunes/iTunes Music/Katrina and the Waves/Unknown Album/Walking on Sunshine.mp3.

Nonetheless, a few years ago I decided to let iTunes organize everything, and I haven't looked back. I like being able to edit ID3 tags in iTunes and having the filename/folder names update automatically, and being able to do such to a whole set of sound files is invaluable. But I was very hesitant to do the automated organization at first, if only because I was so familiar with my own folder structure.

-birdman

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

. . .it comes down to the directory structure for me. The one that iTunes creates looks like it was designed by programmers and not interface designers.

I don't understand the cause for that critique. If you look in the iTunes Music Library folder, you have a folder for each artist. Then, if you click an artist folder, you have a folder for each album. Then you have the individual tracks. What's hard about that? I do have that kind of criticism for iPhoto's directory structure but not for iTunes.

[vmarks]

For windows users who like this, there's always xplay2 for windows, which puts the ipod as a drive in My Computer.

Then, drag and drop music files as you please, and that's all it is - another drive. Xplay handles the iPod interaction, and you do as you please.

As for the why of it? People resist even the most well thought out organization in favor of their own choice- and they should be able to do so.

[zro]

Originally Posted by birdman 

Take this example: I have a recording of "Walking on Sunshine." In my SoundJam days, this was located in Macintosh HD/Documents/Music/Unsorted/Walking on Sunshine.mp3. Now, it's in Macintosh HD/Users/birdman/Music/iTunes/iTunes Music/Katrina and the Waves/Unknown Album/Walking on Sunshine.mp3.

The album was Walking On Sunshine (1983).



Isn't iPod disk mode available in iTunes for windows?

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

For windows users who like this, there's always xplay2 for windows, which puts the ipod as a drive in My Computer.

Then, drag and drop music files as you please, and that's all it is - another drive. Xplay handles the iPod interaction, and you do as you please.

As for the why of it? People resist even the most well thought out organization in favor of their own choice- and they should be able to do so.

well said vmaks

[birdman]

Originally Posted by zro 

The album was Walking On Sunshine (1983).

I knew that was coming.

-birdman

[Northeastern292]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

When you use Windows, distrust of computers is natural.

[laughs]

How funny!

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by zro 

The album was Walking On Sunshine (1983).



Isn't iPod disk mode available in iTunes for windows?

Disk mode does NOT give you access to the music storage that the iPod plays from. It's just "here's some USB-connected storage".