[PB2K]

not safe for work bikini's

[JoshuaZ]

I was under the impression that most of the reason women try to look good/sexy/awesome was to impress other women. Nothing is worse than watching a group of girls at a formal event where they all try to outdo each other. (Or even worse, listen to what they say about each others outfits...)

Women wouldn't wear the stuff unless they wanted to. Men don't need sexy clothing to get us interested in women. How does a women impress a guy? She shows up.

And the whole guys shaving thing was a result of WWI, when a certain razor company got its start making the standard "safety" razor for the army. It was necessary for men to have a clean face in order to wear a gas mask. I guess enough men enjoyed it, and enjoyed the women who enjoyed it, that it stuck around after the war.

(I would rather shave, as my skin does not agree with a beard. That and its orange. Damn colourful beard.)

[macroy]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ 

I was under the impression that most of the reason women try to look good/sexy/awesome was to impress other women. Nothing is worse than watching a group of girls at a formal event where they all try to outdo each other. (Or even worse, listen to what they say about each others outfits...)

Women wouldn't wear the stuff unless they wanted to. Men don't need sexy clothing to get us interested in women. How does a women impress a guy? She shows up.

And the whole guys shaving thing was a result of WWI, when a certain razor company got its start making the standard "safety" razor for the army. It was necessary for men to have a clean face in order to wear a gas mask. I guess enough men enjoyed it, and enjoyed the women who enjoyed it, that it stuck around after the war.

(I would rather shave, as my skin does not agree with a beard. That and its orange. Damn colourful beard.)

WWI? What about all those folks that were shaving with the straight razor back in the 1800's?

[andi*pandi]

^hey, I didn't know that joshua!

it kind of parallels the stockings thing of WWII... women couldn't get silk stockings anymore as all the silk went to parachutes and whatnot... so that's when they started shaving their legs to get the "look" of stockings, even going so far as to take eyeliner pencil down the back of the leg to imitate the seam.

I myself am not sure which is worse, shaving or wearing nylons.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I never understood girls in college who freaked out if a guy saw them carrying a tampon to the bathroom. It's not like they don't know what periods are.

In my experience, most guys DON'T really know what periods are. For that matter, what most girls know about their periods wouldn't fill a matchbook ad either. I've run into a number of young women who were mostly concerned that acknowledging they were on their period was "admitting weakness" (this was in the military), or it was "a private matter" (gobbledygook for "I'm embarrassed because that's how my mother taught me to be.").

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ 

And the whole guys shaving thing was a result of WWI, when a certain razor company got its start making the standard "safety" razor for the army. It was necessary for men to have a clean face in order to wear a gas mask. I guess enough men enjoyed it, and enjoyed the women who enjoyed it, that it stuck around after the war.

The style had changed to mostly clean shaven by the 1910s, with some interesting variations in sideburn length and style. Tht "certain razor company" scored a coup by giving away the razors and selling the blades (and thus the current inkjet printer market was born, but that's another story). But the Army requirement for Soldiers to shave DAILY was directly due to the need for gas masks to fit tightly. Most Soldiers simply kept to the habit after the war, and they shaped the styles for the next couple of decades.

From experience, shaving every day over 20+ years because I was required to was No Fun®; my skin doesn't agree with razors of any sort. My wife thinks my beard (short and shaped) is great, I enjoy it, and it makes me look "distinguished" (fashion doublespeak for "old but not yet decrepit" ), so it stays.

[Sky Captain]

The Clam Clamp™.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by KeyLimePi 

It's not like people don't know what a sneeze is either, but I don't flash my hanky around after a good blow.

Yeah, but a used tissue is pretty gross. It's got crap in it. A sealed tampon is just white thingy wrapped in plastic. From a distance, you might not even know what it is. Regardless, I'm talking about the girls who shove their tampons into pockets that are too small for them (pockets in girls' jeans are insanely small these days), and then carefully cover up whatever is sticking out with their hand so that nobody knows what's going on. It's just a little to paranoid for my taste. I just walk to the bathroom with a tampon in my hand. It's not like I'm waving it around and yelling "whooo hooooo!!!! I'm on the rag again! Check it ouuuut!" or something.

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

I myself am not sure which is worse, shaving or wearing nylons.

Hence I do neither whenever possible. I shave like once a month in the winter. Nobody else can see my legs, so it doesn't really matter that much. I avoid nylons when possible - they always end up getting runs in them, they're expensive, and they make me sweat.

Originally Posted by ghporter

In my experience, most guys DON'T really know what periods are. For that matter, what most girls know about their periods wouldn't fill a matchbook ad either. I've run into a number of young women who were mostly concerned that acknowledging they were on their period was "admitting weakness" (this was in the military), or it was "a private matter" (gobbledygook for "I'm embarrassed because that's how my mother taught me to be.").

Oh, wow. That's said. I just figured that guys knew that girls had a thing once a month that made them go batshit-insane, cry a lot, and bleed all over the place.

It seems silly to be embarrassed about one's period. With something like explosive diarrhea, it is embarrassing, becuase it's abnormal and extremely uncomfortable. Periods, on the other hand, are perfectly normal (if you're not having one, you're either sick, preggo, menopausal, or so anorexic that your body has quit producing those hormones in an effort to keep itself alive), not that uncomfortable (for the most part)...

I guess I'm just weird.

Speaking of which, wearing one of those things when you're on the rag would suck. The thong pantiliners wouldn't work, and I would not want to wear a tampon with one. If you leak, you're screwed.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Oh, wow. That's said. I just figured that guys knew that girls had a thing once a month that made them go batshit-insane, cry a lot, and bleed all over the place.

The relatively few guys that notice do notice batty behavior (more batty than typical, anyway), but the rest of it is a blur or just off their radar. And a lot of girls don't bother to pay attention to their cycles so that they can monitor their behavior and behave somewhat sane most of the time. Like not thinking about it would make it go away and they wouldn't have to be bothered with it? I dunno.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

It seems silly to be embarrassed about one's period. With something like explosive diarrhea, it is embarrassing, becuase it's abnormal and extremely uncomfortable. Periods, on the other hand, are perfectly normal (if you're not having one, you're either sick, preggo, menopausal, or so anorexic that your body has quit producing those hormones in an effort to keep itself alive), not that uncomfortable (for the most part)...

I guess I'm just weird.

You know that. I know that. My wife knows that... There, that's three of us! Oh boy! But look at all the research into pills that don't just prevent pregnancy, but prevent periods altogether. Why? It's a natural function of a complex and intricate system, and screwing around with it is simply not a stroll in the park. But our culture (most cultures, in fact) sees menstruation as dirty, ugly, grotesque, evil, etc. What a bunch of bunk! I'm not thrilled when my wife's on her period because she does behave somewhat differently, but it's not like she turns into Ms. Hyde-she's just less energetic and more emotionally fluid. After a few years of living with her, I've found that it's not such a problem to deal with. I must be weird too.

[Dakarʒ]

I can't say i can recall seeing Nylons anymore, excluding work and women over 40.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

TBut look at all the research into pills that don't just prevent pregnancy, but prevent periods altogether. Why? It's a natural function of a complex and intricate system, and screwing around with it is simply not a stroll in the park. But our culture (most cultures, in fact) sees menstruation as dirty, ugly, grotesque, evil, etc. What a bunch of bunk!

Don't get me wrong - periods are normal and nothing to be embarrassed about. That doesn't mean I don't hate mine. I've ruined many a pair of underwear from overzealous bleeding, and I've also spotted up a couple pairs of pants, too. Periods are annoying, an inconvenience, and expensive - the cost of tampons and other accoutrements is just ridiculous. I personally would love to be able to take a magic pill to prevent my period until I'm ready get preggo.

Periods aren't evil, but they are pretty dirty, ugly, and gross. It's blood. And blood clots. And other gross crap coming out of your vagina once a month. Sometimes you'll be sitting there, in class or at work, and as soon as you stand up you get that rushing feeling that us ladies like to call "flooding" - a nice big glob of blood and other things comes out, unexpectedly, and you immediately have to rush to the bathroom to take care of it.

Sorry, but unless you're a woman, it's impossible to understand what it's really, truly, actually like to have a period. Even if you have a wife. You can see what it might be like, but the actual experience can't be replicated. Not that you'd want it to be.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Sorry, but unless you're a woman, it's impossible to understand what it's really, truly, actually like to have a period. Even if you have a wife. You can see what it might be like, but the actual experience can't be replicated. Not that you'd want it to be.

I will humbly agree with you on that. And even if it were a much less onerous burden, I would not want to learn about it first hand-I think most males are completely unable to deal with menstruation as much from socialization as from simply being male-but I can at least sympathize about the whole process being a fact of life that a woman doesn't have a lot of control over.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

In my experience, most guys DON'T really know what periods are. For that matter, what most girls know about their periods wouldn't fill a matchbook ad either. I've run into a number of young women who were mostly concerned that acknowledging they were on their period was "admitting weakness" (this was in the military), or it was "a private matter" (gobbledygook for "I'm embarrassed because that's how my mother taught me to be.").

In my experience, that doesn't apply to anybody under 40 who went through a normal middle school education.

[Mark Larr]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I personally would love to be able to take a magic pill to prevent my period until I'm ready get preggo.

There is an injection that does just that. My GF is on it, even though I'm fixinated.

I'll find out what it is.

BTW, we can tell who either isn't or hasn't been married here.

[Dakarʒ]

Back in the day in what depo-provera or something.

[shifuimam]

Yeah, you're probably referring to depo-provera.

It's a bit expensive and has a higher rate of side effects than the pill. My doctor recommended I not go that route, so I'm stuck on the pill for now.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by analogika 

In my experience, that doesn't apply to anybody under 40 who went through a normal middle school education.

Either my experience is broader than yours, or what the two of us consider "normal middle school education" is vastly different. When I was that age, it was "junior high school," and we didn't get ANYTHING about human reproduction in ANY class. In high school the day "the film" was to be presented, we had a substitute gym teacher (yes, health and hygiene were taught in PE) who got about 15 minutes into the film and turned it off (red faced, I might add) and the rest of the day's classes played dodgeball. Honestly!

I took a university-level Human Sexuality course two summers ago, and it reinforced my impressions. Though my classmates were self-selected and more interested in the facts of the subject, many of them were just as ill informed as I described. It's kind of sad, really.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

It's a bit expensive and has a higher rate of side effects than the pill.

Yeah it gave my hs gf lots of headaches not relating to the headboard.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Either my experience is broader than yours, or what the two of us consider "normal middle school education" is vastly different.

I'm going to guess the main difference is the Atlantic Ocean.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

I'm going to guess the main difference is the Atlantic Ocean.

They didn't do that kind of thing here either. Mind you, I'm just guessing at that since I was probably down at the amusement arcade playing Frogger.

[Dakarʒ]

We'll need the rest of Europe to weight in. Let's go to the map!

[analogika]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Either my experience is broader than yours, or what the two of us consider "normal middle school education" is vastly different. When I was that age, it was "junior high school," and we didn't get ANYTHING about human reproduction in ANY class. In high school the day "the film" was to be presented, we had a substitute gym teacher (yes, health and hygiene were taught in PE) who got about 15 minutes into the film and turned it off (red faced, I might add) and the rest of the day's classes played dodgeball. Honestly!

Hence my note about people under 40.

I can't claim that to be representative, but I went to an American middle school in the mid-80s, and we had two WEEKS of sex ed in Science class - a few sections were even taught separately to boys and girls. It was quite comprehensive, and quite excellently taught.

We got a lot more detail - teh whole hormonal interaction complex etc. - in tenth-grade bio, IIRC.

And I remember basic sex ed (as in "where do I come from if daddy didn't *really* find me in his beer stein?") was taught in fifth grade in the German school I attended then.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

I'm going to guess the main difference is the Atlantic Ocean.

You could have nailed that one there. We in the States tend to be pretty hung up about sex, at least as a group.

[design219]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

You could have nailed that one there. We in the States tend to be pretty hung up about sex, at least as a group.

group sex?

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

You could have nailed that one there. We in the States tend to be pretty hung up about sex, at least as a group.

Originally Posted by analogika 

I can't claim that to be representative, but I went to an American middle school in the mid-80s,

Nope, I just got burned.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Yeah, you're probably referring to depo-provera.

It's a bit expensive and has a higher rate of side effects than the pill. My doctor recommended I not go that route, so I'm stuck on the pill for now.

There is also the "hormonal" IUD, which is a type of IUD that releases minute amounts of progestogen into the uterus, simulating a "light" pregnancy.

Hormonal IUDs have the added benefit for many (but not all) wearers of "drying out" the menstrual flow, and in some cases monthly bleeding ceases entirely.

The hormone dose is also *much* smaller than with the pill, so there's less chance of the more wide-reaching psychological and physiological side-effects of the pill that affect many women who take it.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Hence my note about people under 40.

I can't claim that to be representative, but I went to an American middle school in the mid-80s, and we had two WEEKS of sex ed in Science class - a few sections were even taught separately to boys and girls. It was quite comprehensive, and quite excellently taught.

We got a lot more detail - teh whole hormonal interaction complex etc. - in tenth-grade bio, IIRC.

And I remember basic sex ed (as in "where do I come from if daddy didn't *really* find me in his beer stein?") was taught in fifth grade in the German school I attended then.

I went to a private Christian school where we were taught CPR+ (creating positive relationships), where we learned about the "steps of affection". We learned nothing about sex, what it was, or how babies were made. We had a mom and daughter lunch in the third grade where we got free samples of Always pads and Secret deoderant and watched a movie from the 70s about our changing bodies.

I knew kids in high school who got permission to sit out during the week we did CPR+ in health/PE class, because their parents didn't want them being exposed to it.

I learned about sex from a book for little kids that my friend was given when she was a kid. I think I was 13 when I saw that. First time I knew what sex actually was. My parents didn't allow me to talk to boys outside of school, work, and church until they got divorced when I was 17 and basically quit paying attention to what I was doing.

Needless to say, while I have no problem with instilling in your middle and high school aged kids that they're more than likely not ready for sex, they should at least know what the hell it is.

[Dakarʒ]

I don't think I'm familiar with the psychological side-effects of the pill.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by analogika 

There is also the "hormonal" IUD, which is a type of IUD that releases minute amounts of progestogen into the uterus, simulating a "light" pregnancy.

Hormonal IUDs have the added benefit for many (but not all) wearers of "drying out" the menstrual flow, and in some cases monthly bleeding ceases entirely.

The hormone dose is also *much* smaller than with the pill, so there's less chance of the more wide-reaching psychological and physiological side-effects of the pill that affect many women who take it.

The reason I went on the pill in the first place was actually because of cramps - I didn't even think about the sex part of it when I started it. I had cramps so bad I would be immobilized for days. It really sucked. My doctor told me that the IUD probably won't help as much with that, so here I am. I'm on a low-hormone pill, though - Yasmin. Seems to be working. When I remember to take it. Which hasn't been that often as of late.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

My parents didn't allow me to talk to boys outside of school, work, and church until they got divorced when I was 17 and basically quit paying attention to what I was doing.

Jesus. I know I'd be less than comfortable with a daughter but thats overkill.

[shifuimam]

Oh, yeah. When I was in seventh grade, I offhandedly mentioned to my mother that a year ago, a boy asked me out at church. Her immediate and panicked response was, "I certainly hope you said no!". Then, my sophomore year of high school, the class president (a boy) called to ask if I was participating in a fund-raiser that weekend. My mom answered the phone, and after I hung up, she demanded to know who he was, why he was calling, how he got my number, and why a boy would be calling me anyhow.

Eh. I managed to lose the v-card my second semester of college (I was 18), so I sure showed her.

[Dakarʒ]

Were they hoping you'd become a nun?

[shifuimam]

I have no idea. Both my parents are batshit insane, and my brother is quickly following in their footsteps. I'm definitely a head case myself, but I'm resisting The Force as much as I possibly can.

I once suggested that my mom and my boyfriend go on vacation with me at the same time, since I only get two weeks' paid vacation time a year. My mom's response "you would have to keep your clothes on in the house the entire time, so I don't think so".

Because. You know. Spending the night with your SO = walking around in the buff for the hell of it.

[andi*pandi]

we had the "this is your body on hormones film" in 4th grade, boys in one room, girls in another, different films. In 8th grade we had basic sex ed/birth control discussion in home ec. Both occasions were cause for much nervous giggling and examination of shoes.

Cosmopolitan magazine did a better job.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Hence my note about people under 40.

I was the oldest person in my Human Sexuality class-the next oldest was 27. That's the part that puzzled me, since I knew what sort of sex ed they should have had in the local schools.

Originally Posted by analogika 

I can't claim that to be representative, but I went to an American middle school in the mid-80s, and we had two WEEKS of sex ed in Science class - a few sections were even taught separately to boys and girls. It was quite comprehensive, and quite excellently taught.

We got a lot more detail - teh whole hormonal interaction complex etc. - in tenth-grade bio, IIRC. .

I gotta ask where you went to middle school. I was in those grades in the early 1970s, and the world indeed changed a lot over the next 10 to 15 years, but not necessarily everywhere at the same time. Further, my son graduated from high school two years ago, so his particular school career is quite fresh in my mind. He had a class during middle school and another in high school. ONE CLASS. We had to sign permission slips for both of them.

[Dakarʒ]

I saw that edit!

edit: and snaked by the gh!

[analogika]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

The reason I went on the pill in the first place was actually because of cramps - I didn't even think about the sex part of it when I started it. I had cramps so bad I would be immobilized for days. It really sucked. My doctor told me that the IUD probably won't help as much with that, so here I am. I'm on a low-hormone pill, though - Yasmin. Seems to be working. When I remember to take it. Which hasn't been that often as of late.

Ah no, if you had severe cramping, then an IUD is probably not gonna help - on the contrary.

Though the progesterone-laced version might benefit you; might be worth asking a doc about that.

One thing, though, and *please* don't take this as an attack: I tend to think that menstrual cramping often has a strong psychosomatic component, which would make sense given how extremely repressive your upbringing appears to have been in this regard. Having an IUD placed *inside* your "naughty bits", as it were, has a psychological component that can lead to physical reaction, i.e. cramping. Which would mean more trouble than it's probably worth, if you've found a pill you feel good taking.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I gotta ask where you went to middle school. I was in those grades in the early 1970s, and the world indeed changed a lot over the next 10 to 15 years, but not necessarily everywhere at the same time. Further, my son graduated from high school two years ago, so his particular school career is quite fresh in my mind. He had a class during middle school and another in high school. ONE CLASS. We had to sign permission slips for both of them.

I went to an American international school in the Far East. So yeah, that probably wasn't representative.

[Paco500]

I went to a garden variety public school in Virginia in the early-mid 80's and had pretty much the same experience as analogika. Could the problem be the deep south/texas?

[PB2K]

that C-string looks like a Kotex(TM) female care product. And it has been used

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

I'm not familiar with female anatomy, so how exactly does this thing stay in place?

The vagina has built in suction cups.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Paco500 

I went to a garden variety public school in Virginia in the early-mid 80's and had pretty much the same experience as analogika. Could the problem be the deep south/texas?

I grew up in Michigan, so it's not like my schools were the same as my son's. But I do think that there's a serious "we don't want our kids to learn that stuff in school" component here. Too bad such parents will vote to keep their kids from learning at school, and then won't bother to teach them at home, either.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Ah no, if you had severe cramping, then an IUD is probably not gonna help - on the contrary.

Though the progesterone-laced version might benefit you; might be worth asking a doc about that.

One thing, though, and *please* don't take this as an attack: I tend to think that menstrual cramping often has a strong psychosomatic component, which would make sense given how extremely repressive your upbringing appears to have been in this regard. Having an IUD placed *inside* your "naughty bits", as it were, has a psychological component that can lead to physical reaction, i.e. cramping. Which would mean more trouble than it's probably worth, if you've found a pill you feel good taking.

There's a fairly large body of research that says a woman who's had positive examples of childbirth will have a significantly easier time with her own delivery over a woman who's only heard horror stories. The same holds for breastfeeding. That doesn't change that there is definitely a serious amount of uterine activity in women who suffer from cramps, it just indicates that the same sensations can be interpreted differently based on prior preparation.

[strictlyplaid]

Did anyone else read the thread title and expect to see a discussion of guitars?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by strictlyplaid 

Did anyone else read the thread title and expect to see a discussion of guitars?

And thought "how the bloody hell am I supposed to play that?". Yep.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

The vagina has built in suction cups.

You know how snails stick to leaves?

Same principle.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by analogika 

One thing, though, and *please* don't take this as an attack: I tend to think that menstrual cramping often has a strong psychosomatic component, which would make sense given how extremely repressive your upbringing appears to have been in this regard.

Well, as far as my actual period goes, that was never a point of contention with my mother. And anyhow - I was very good at resisting The Force in high school. I really doubt that anything my mother tried to tell me caused PMS.

I used to get horrendous cramps and nausea with my period. After two months on the pill, it all went away. My doctor and I both agree that it was caused by a hormone imbalance. So, yeah. I don't see it as a "psychosomatic" thing - and I'm the biggest hypochondriac on the planet.

[Cold Warrior]

My sister, in her mid 20's, gets horrible menstrual cramps as well. The only thing that has helped has been the pill.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

We'll need the rest of Europe to weight in. Let's go to the map!

Been watching too much Dora the Explorer?

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

Jesus. I know I'd be less than comfortable with a daughter but thats overkill.

Yeah, have a few daughters and watch your attitudes change. I'm a guy - I wouldn't want me anywhere near my daughters.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I used to get horrendous cramps and nausea with my period. After two months on the pill, it all went away. My doctor and I both agree that it was caused by a hormone imbalance. So, yeah. I don't see it as a "psychosomatic" thing - and I'm the biggest hypochondriac on the planet.

Try different pills - they all have different combinations of hormones. Heck, there are at least 6 or 7.