[aristotles]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Your are kidding me right? You are basing HDDVD returns on Disney movies?

You think 1 week after Christmas is enough to determine if all those HDDVD players sold during the holiday season would translate to HDDVD movies sales? Wow, I'm glad you are not in marketing.

Disney movies are really big with families with small children. Add in Buena Vista/Touchstone movies (Gone in 60 Seconds, Pirates of the Carribean series, Invisible etc...) plus the Sony and Fox exclusives and you have a lot of movies that appeal to teens and young adults with spendable cash.

Ultimately though, this has been a whole year in the making. Every week in the US was won by Blu-ray and Blu-ray is leading in Europe by a 3:1 margin, Japan by a 9:1 margin an Australia by a 4:1 margin.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

shaddim
combo players have come along way since the LD/DVD combos my friend. trust me on this!

Well, after $1200 for the player and ~$600 in shipping and repairs, I'd had enough. I ran into an incredible deal on a Pioneer HLD-X9 and never looked back.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Disney movies are really big with families with small children. Add in Buena Vista/Touchstone movies (Gone in 60 Seconds, Pirates of the Carribean series, Invisible etc...) plus the Sony and Fox exclusives and you have a lot of movies that appeal to teens and young adults with spendable cash.

I'm not arguing with you that Disney movies are big. What you are saying is that the mass are going to return their HDDVD players because they are confuse as to why their HDDVD players don't play Disney movies.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I think it really shows sour grapes and unprofessionalism for Toshiba to mention they are looking into lawsuits for this decision. Even if it was true is that really something you need to put in a press release? Send Warner a legal letter when you know if you have a case or not.

****ing jerks.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Source?

As of the end of November, HD DVD Promo Group: HD DVD Player Sales Top 750,000 | High-Def Digest, with fire sale numbers factored in.

From your link, there is another link.

Report: HD DVD Standalone Player Sales Nearing 500,000 Milestone | High-Def Digest

That's according to a report published late Thursday by Home Media Magazine, which places the current total household penetration for HD DVD standalones at about 420,000 units.

420,000 - 90,000 (sold in first week of Nov) = 330,000 before Nov.

750,000 by the end of Nov.

750,000 - 330,000 = 420,000 during Nov.

So a low low estimate of 80,000 for Dec, gives you 500,000 for Nov and Dec period.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by goMac 

For me, I refuse to buy any format the binds the media physically to a disc. Media on a disc means that the disc format can be pushed off the market, leaving you unable to play your media. This is actually a perfect example. Once HD-DVD players go off the market, people will no longer be able to play their HD-DVD content.

If managed copy was implemented today, I could go out and buy HD-DVD discs, copy them to my computer, and continue playing them now until the end of time regardless of what happens to HD-DVD. I refuse to buy a format that will just continue the endless cycle of having to buy a new copy of the movie when people decide to change the physical format. If Bluray discs were compatible with managed copy, I would gladly buy Bluray. But Bluray doesn't meet my requirements as a format, so I won't buy it at all.

I don't know where you are getting this information from but your HD DVD discs will continue to play as long as your Toshiba standalone continues to function. Managed copy is no guarantee that you would continue to have access to your media and you would be forced to use windows to access it. What if MSFT disabled the servers that maintained the "keys" for your managed copies, you had a hardware failure and you wanted to create a new "managed" copy?

Blu-ray can be compatible with managed copy but I do not see that as an advantage because of the OS lock-in and the vulnerability of losing access to the managed copies in the future should MSFT decide to shut down the system or if the studio decided to revoke the managed copy system. This will not happen with physical media. The media will continue to work well into the future.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I think it really shows sour grapes and unprofessionalism for Toshiba to mention they are looking into lawsuits for this decision. Even if it was true is that really something you need to put in a press release? Send Warner a legal letter when you know if you have a case or not.

****ing jerks.

Because they need to response to a press release by Warner to limit damage.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I'm not arguing with you that Disney movies are big. What you are saying is that the mass are going to return their HDDVD players because they are confuse as to why their HDDVD players don't play Disney movies.

There were numerous stories from Walmart employees commenting on people bringing back the units when they found out that they were not blu-ray compatible and stories of people buying the A2's simply as an upscaling DVD player.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Because they need to response to a press release by Warner to limit damage.

By saying they are going to sue them? How is that going to make any HD owners feel better or push the format?

HD owners gonna get a cut of that lawsuit?

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

By saying they are going to sue them? How is that going to make any HD owners feel better or push the format?

HD owners gonna get a cut of that lawsuit?

It only says they were surprise the Warner would abandon HDDVD when there is an existing contract. Seems like a reasonable response to me.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I think it really shows sour grapes and unprofessionalism for Toshiba to mention they are looking into lawsuits for this decision. Even if it was true is that really something you need to put in a press release? Send Warner a legal letter when you know if you have a case or not.

****ing jerks.

They're reacting poorly, and it will come back to bite them in the ass.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

I don't know where you are getting this information from but your HD DVD discs will continue to play as long as your Toshiba standalone continues to function.

And then when my standalone dies, where will I be? What if I want to be able to play movies in two parts of the house? Am I to buy a second standalone?

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Managed copy is no guarantee that you would continue to have access to your media and you would be forced to use windows to access it.

Not true.

Originally Posted by aristotles 

What if MSFT disabled the servers that maintained the "keys" for your managed copies, you had a hardware failure and you wanted to create a new "managed" copy?

I only need the key for making the copy. Once it's moved over, I just backup the public key database on my end and never have to talk to anyones servers again.

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Blu-ray can be compatible with managed copy but I do not see that as an advantage because of the OS lock-in and the vulnerability of losing access to the managed copies in the future should MSFT decide to shut down the system or if the studio decided to revoke the managed copy system. This will not happen with physical media. The media will continue to work well into the future.

Wait... so... giving me more functionality now is bad in case it breaks later?

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

From your link, there is another link.

Report: HD DVD Standalone Player Sales Nearing 500,000 Milestone | High-Def Digest



420,000 - 90,000 (sold in first week of Nov) = 330,000 before Nov.

750,000 by the end of Nov.

750,000 - 330,000 = 420,000 during Nov.

So a low low estimate of 80,000 for Dec, gives you 500,000 for Nov and Dec period.

You're not making sense of the numbers.

In the article HD DVD Standalone Player Sales Nearing 500,000 Milestone, dated Nov. 8, 2007,

Format backers say the total number of standalone HD DVD players sold is poised to hit the 500,000 mark by late November.

This is to mean the total number of standalone players sold since inception was to hit 500,000 by late November. I'll assume this 500,000 units estimate includes the reported 90,000 standalones sold during the A2 fire sale. The estimate does not include, however, the XBox HD DVD add-on. When the XBox add-ons, as well as any sales of standalone players for the month of November, are factored in together, HD DVD can only claim to have sold 750,000 players (standalones and add-ons) since inception!

Per the article dated Nov. 27, 2007, HD DVD Promo Group: HD DVD Player Sales Top 750,000:

A combined total of over 750,000 standalone set-top players and Xbox 360 HD DVD players have now been sold through to consumers.

The difference of 250,000 (or 330,000) units did not magically appear over the rest of November; it simply wasn't factored into the standalone sales estimate in the earlier article and represents add-ons factored in.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

It only says they were surprise the Warner would abandon HDDVD when there is an existing contract. Seems like a reasonable response to me.

Oh what, Toshiba payed them to even be nurtural from the beginning?
Why should they bring that up publicly?

And again, how does "We sue you" make you feel better about your HD-DVD player and want to buy more disks?

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by goMac 

And then when my standalone dies, where will I be? What if I want to be able to play movies in two parts of the house? Am I to buy a second standalone?

That's what you have to deal with when you buy a Betamaxesqe format. I'm going to have to unload my HD DVD player and 19 movies on e-Bay too. I might keep the Combo discs.

I only need the key for making the copy. Once it's moved over, I just backup the public key database on my end and never have to talk to anyones servers again.

Wait... so... giving me more functionality now is bad in case it breaks later?

Give me a link to where this non-existent managed copy idea from MSFT would work outside of windows. All evidence points to it being windows only since existing "managed" media using MSFT DRM is only accessible on windows. Flip4mac does not support DRM'ed media.

[ort888]

The next big step will be the retail chains.

Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, WalMart, Frys, ect...

All of these guys are being hurt by this format war just as much as anyone else.

I think we'll start seeing HD DVD disappear from their valuable shelfspace very soon.

I think this action by Warner will start a quick chain reaction that will end this fairly quickly.

It's in everyone's best interest at this point.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Oh what, Toshiba payed them to even be nurtural from the beginning?
Why should they bring that up publicly?

And again, how does "We sue you" make you feel better about your HD-DVD player and want to buy more disks?

Hey Bluray fanboy.

The response from Toshiba was explaining that they were surprise with Warner decision and explains the reasons why. Long term relationship and existing contract.

I could care less if Toshiba sues Warner or not. I happen to like both Toshiba and Warner because they are the ones who made DVD popular. Warner was there from the start.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Hey Bluray fanboy.

The response from Toshiba was explaining that they were surprise with Warner decision and explains the reasons why. Long term relationship and contract.

Hey HD-DVD fanboy.
Your format is dead.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Hey HD-DVD fanboy.
Your format is dead.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I seriously wonder if many of those $99 players that sold over Xmas will be returned this week. Prob not because everyone opened the disks and they can't return those.

Ah well.

[hyteckit]

Crazy Bluray fanboys b*tch about everything, even over a perfectly reasonable response from Toshiba.

[Oversoul]

Warner: No Payoff for Move to Blu-ray | High-Def Digest

Warner has even more of my respect if true. Paramount by comparison made like a whore, took the money and ran.

[hyteckit]

Here's a good explaination.

Warner Bros. picks Blu-ray over HD-DVD - Yahoo! News

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Crazy Bluray fanboys b*tch about everything, even over a perfectly reasonable response from Toshiba.

And you can't accept a perfectly reasonable reason as to why BR won so go suck a Rom51.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

And you can't accept a perfectly reasonable reason as to why BR won so go suck a Rom51.

You are a Bluray fanboy alright.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Here's a good explaination.

Warner Bros. picks Blu-ray over HD-DVD - Yahoo! News

Who saw this one coming? Everyone thought HD was the big Xmas seller and that is what Warner would go on:

"Sales of set-top high-definition disc players in the fourth quarter of 2007 also factored into Warner's decision.

The company saw an acceleration in sales of Blu-ray players at the end of the quarter, particularly in December, Tsujihara said.

"We always viewed set-tops as the most significant indicator" of consumers' format preference, he said."

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

You are a Bluray fanboy alright.

You're right. I am a fan of picking the winning side. Thanks

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

You're right. I am a fan of picking the winning side. Thanks

Winning side? It's not a win yet for Bluray. It's like saying Laserdisc is the winning side, until DVD came alone. Just as Laserdisc died out and VCDs died out, Bluray can too. Bluray has not been accepted by the masses yet. If Bluray doesn't become mainstream in 2 years, it might be supplanted by something else.

Again, good luck to Bluray in 2008.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Winning side? It's not a win yet for Bluray. It's like saying Laserdisc is the winning side, until DVD came alone. Bluray has not been accepted by the masses yet.

Again, good luck to Bluray in 2008.

Most delusional post this year but thanks for the well wishes

[Oversoul]

From Warner backs Blu-ray exclusively - 1/4/2008 - Video Business

Warner will be joining other BD-exclusive suppliers Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, Walt Disney Home Entertainment, 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment and Lionsgate. Time Warner divisions New Line Home Entertainment and HBO Video are also included in the move to Blu-ray.

I'll take Lord of the Rings Extended Editions and Rome on Blu-ray please.

A few more interesting quotes from Warner Home Video president Ron Sanders:

"One of the things you see in the NPD data for this fourth quarter was that even with a $100 premium, BD set-tops outsold HD set-tops in December," said Sanders. "Even with Toshiba having the lower-cost player in the marekt, software sales remained 2-to-1 in favor of Blu-ray. Our titles were running roughly 60/40 Blu-ray and that didn't change in the fourth quarter even with the price advantage HD had on the hardware side."

"You also can't underestimate the impact of PS3 as a playback device," Sanders said. "The attachment rate may not be very high, and in fact it isn't, but in the aggregate that still adds up to a lot of software sales."

Argue it however you want, but it seems pretty common sense.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

"Regarding the transition to Blu-ray exclusivity in May, they haven't figured out what the "window" between HD DVD release and the standard and Blu-ray releases. They're also not sure if they're going to keep producing old HD DVD titles—it depends on the retailers"

Interview: Why Warner Went Full Throttle With Blu-ray

[- - e r i k - -]

Thank God this madness has ended! What a f*cking waste.

[Chongo]

Samsung - Blu-ray Disc/HD DVD Universal Player - BD-UP5000

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Most delusional post this year but thanks for the well wishes

Delusional? DVD when it came out wasn't a shoe in to replace VHS tapes. Anyone who bought a $400 DVD player was taking a risk.

Because a majority of consumers are happy with their $50 DVD players, they are not going to jump on buying a $500 Bluray player. It needs to be cheap enough and enticing enough for most consumers to jump to a Hidef player.

A lot of music being purchased today are digital, but lower quality than CDs. DVD-A never replaced CDs.

Don't think just because the video and audio quality is higher, consumers will jump on board.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Samsung - Blu-ray Disc/HD DVD Universal Player - BD-UP5000

The Samsung BD-UP5000 only began shipping about two weeks ago, after months of heavy anticipation. I'm not surprised that it's sold out at some retailers.

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

You're right. I am a fan of picking the winning side. Thanks

no wonder you don't like me. all because i went neutral. YEESH!!

[alligator]

Guys, I am in big trouble now. I went into Best Buy a year ago to buy an HD-DVD player. My wife liked the Blu-Ray titles better, and told me we should buy the more expensive Blu-Ray player. Of course, we did. Now I'm NEVER going to live this one down. I think Warner did this just so she'd have one up on me. They must know my wife!

[analogue SPRINKLES]

You can move in with hyteckit and watch HD-DVD's to your hearts content.

[brassplayersrock²]

or move in with me and watch both formats any time
on the same machine!

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

or move in with me and watch both formats any time
on the same machine!

Be sure to charge him rent so you can get back some of that $750 for the hybrid though.
Are you sure you got the room though as you don't even seem to have the shelf space

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Delusional? DVD when it came out wasn't a shoe in to replace VHS tapes. Anyone who bought a $400 DVD player was taking a risk.

Because a majority of consumers are happy with their $50 DVD players, they are not going to jump on buying a $500 Bluray player. It needs to be cheap enough and enticing enough for most consumers to jump to a Hidef player.

Why do you keep insisting Blu-ray players are or will remain $500? Several Blu-ray units are pushing or have already cracked the sub-$300 mark. Granted these are Profile 1.0 players and there is still a ways to go before the general consuming public adopts it en masse, but Blu-ray players have more than halved their price point from a year ago (I know, having bought into the technology when it was still new). Reduced component prices, economies of scale, competition among manufacturers with added demand will drive prices down further. At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised to see a $199 or less Blu-ray Profile 1.1 player* on the market by the holidays 2008. In the meantime, the holdout Hollywood studios can hopefully come to some arrangement to finally end this war.

* If this is even important. Personally, Profile 1.1 or 2.0 do not hold any interest from me and I'd venture to say not for a lot of people either.

[brassplayersrock²]

my prostitution ring already paid for it.

[Cadaver]

Personally, I'm glad to see this kind of thing happen. First off, I'm "purple." I have no preference one way or the other. I have both a Samsung Blu-Ray player and a Toshiba HD-DVD player. I have around 30 HD movies, slightly more than half of which are Blu-Ray. I thought the format war from the beginning was silly, and I hope Warner's move quickly brings an end (i.e., influencing Universal to go back to format-neutral status like they were earlier last year) to the stalemate.

I'd be just as pleased if it were HD-DVD's "victory" rather than Blu-Ray's. Either way, now I can think about buying a second Blu-Ray player for the other main TV in the house (instead of having to think about buying another two players - a BD and an HDDVD; and combo players are too expensive still to consider).

If Apple announces computers with Blu-Ray drives, it'll be all but over.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Crazy Bluray fanboys b*tch about everything, even over a perfectly reasonable response from Toshiba.

What I've been bitching over is the hardware monopoly Toshiba has with HD DVD hardware and the poor quality of Toshiba players. I'm unloading my HD-A2 ASAP.

[The Godfather]

I rented The Cable Guy on DVD today and I found this blast from the past in the credits.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

What I've been bitching over is the hardware monopoly Toshiba has with HD DVD hardware and the poor quality of Toshiba players. I'm unloading my HD-A2 ASAP.

Yeah, I bitch about the poor quality of the Toshiba players as well. I just replace my defective HD-A3 and everything is working great. No more freezes and error codes.

I'm watching Harry Potter and The Chamber of Secrets right now. Picture quality is better than the Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. It's worthy of HD. Was disappointed with the PQ of the Sorcerer's Stone.

I spend less than $400 on my player and all my HDDVD movies. I'm enjoying it and will be enjoying the use of it for more than a year as long as Netflix continue renting HDDVD movies.

If I had paid $800 for a profile 1.0 Bluray player, I would be pissed off now that it has drop to $300.

Once Bluray profile 1.1 or 2.0 drops to $200, I'll pick that up. But until then, I'll continuing using my HDDVD player as my main Hidef movie player.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

If I had paid $800 for a profile 1.0 Bluray player, I would be pissed off now that it has drop to $300.

I would think people paying that much so early on in the life of a format would realize that they are early adopters, and that price drops are to be expected. What I would be more upset about would be the fact that the early players probably won't be entirely compatible with discs that use features from later firmware versions.

[climber]

It is possible that Paramount's contract with the HD-DVD forum may allow them a way of going back to Blu-ray faster than people think. It may cost them a significant money to do it, but it may be possible. It all depends on the fine print that none of us have access to. I think more importantly it would depend on Paramount's assessment of this new landscape with Warner. I would bet some of their attorneys are getting paid to work overtime for awhile. My intuitive business sense tells me the agreement would provide milestones in sales of standalone players that Toshiba would may now find impossible to meet.

[Kenneth]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

What I've been bitching over is the hardware monopoly Toshiba has with HD DVD hardware and the poor quality of Toshiba players. I'm unloading my HD-A2 ASAP.

I looked at the HD DVD player market a month ago, but Toshiba seems to be the *only* mainstream brand out there. However, Toshiba is no longer making quality hardware in my book. Guess I don't have to shop for another Hi-def player anymore as I have a 60GB PS3 for over a year.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

There are sub-300 dollar blu-ray players out there already folks

Profile 1.0. No thanks.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

PS3 is still the best system to buy for BR disks because of price, performance and features. Try to get over the IR argument.

Well, I'm not going to be buying a PS3. I want IR. Plus it's about twice as much as I want to pay.

Like I said, $199 is the sweet spot for me.