[Chongo]

Tom Cruise: Church of Scientology Claims Copyright Infringement
Exclusive: The Cruise Indoctrination Video Scientology Tried To Suppress

[lpkmckenna]

Snakeoilogy at its best.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Tom Cruise: Church of Scientology Claims Copyright Infringement
Exclusive: The Cruise Indoctrination Video Scientology Tried To Suppress

I like this comment.

In all this crazy Tom Cruise hating business of the last couple of years, I have prevented myself from thinking he's totally batshit. This video. He's ****ing batshit.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Snakeoilogy at its best.

Not really, as this cult has a small number of believers, as opposed to cults that fool hundreds of millions.

[SpaceMonkey]

I was laughing within the first 30 seconds of Cruise speaking.

You gotta EARN the right to be a Scientologist, dude. Or dudette!

[brassplayersrock²]

damn it, i thought this thread was going to be about tom cruise going onto the show crime scene investigations

[Sherman Homan]

Tom Cruise jumping up and down on Gil Grissom's couch?

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

damn it, i thought this thread was going to be about tom cruise going onto the show crime scene investigations

As soon as I clicked I realized I should have labeled it C.S-I, or C.S, I (Church of Scientology, International)

[PB2K]

It's ridiculous he doesn't want any SP's around him anymore, they made him rich and famous in the first place.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

Not really, as this cult has a small number of believers, as opposed to cults that fool hundreds of millions.

Who? Socialists? Liberal media? The Hillary Clinton campaign?

[OreoCookie]

I hope you don't mind that I fixed the title for ya

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I hope you don't mind that I fixed the title for ya

Muchos gracias!

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Who? Socialists? Liberal media? The Hillary Clinton campaign?

No; Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Protestants, or anyone else who believes in some mythical being.

[Kerrigan]

That's a pretty reductive analysis. It is akin to saying that all people who like sex are perverts.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

That's a pretty reductive analysis. It is akin to saying that all people who like sex are perverts.

If they like good sex, they are.

[Apemanblues]

I think It's fair to say, he's not the full shilling.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

No; Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Protestants, or anyone else who believes in some mythical being.

[brassplayersrock²]

I found this article interesting even though I'm not into the entire religion of CS,I

It's a dictionary of sorts for us outsiders of scientology about the terms Cruise uses during the video posted above

Tom Cruise Scientology-Video Glossary - News Story | Music, Celebrity, Artist News | MTV News

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

I found this article interesting even though I'm not into the entire religion of CS,I

It's a dictionary of sorts for us outsiders of scientology about the terms Cruise uses during the video posted above

Tom Cruise Scientology-Video Glossary - News Story | Music, Celebrity, Artist News | MTV News

YOU ARE AN SP!

[brassplayersrock²]

damn PTS

[Tyre MacAdmin]

Funny to see this post come up... I was thinking all last night about how Tom Cruise does not believe in Schizophrenia.

Here's a link to the Tom Cruise video that has not been taken down:
Exclusives: The Tom Cruise Indoctrination Video Scientologists Don't Want You To See

[brassplayersrock²]

I wonder how long that webpage will be allowed to stay up

[Tyre MacAdmin]

This one killed me:
YouTube - Tom Cruise's Scientology Video from The Late Late Show

[PaperNotes]

Too good that Craig is.

[Chongo]

Sorry to resurrect a Zombie, I did not want to start another Scientology thread.

It seems seven members of the Church of Scientology have run afoul of the French government.

Scientologists charged with fraud in France: source

By Thierry Leveque

PARIS (Reuters) - A French judge has ordered two departments and seven prominent members of the Church of Scientology in France to stand trial on charges of organized fraud, a judicial source said on Monday.

The case is the latest in a series of legal battles that have pitted the French judicial system against the Scientologists, who could be forced to stop their activities in France if found guilty.

The latest suit centers on a complaint made in 1998 by a woman who said she was enrolled into the Church of Scientology by a group of people she met outside a metro station.

In the following months, she said she paid 140,000 francs (21,340 euros) for "purification packs" and books which she said were a fraud. Other complaints then surfaced, prolonging the investigation.

Judge Jean-Christophe Hullin ruled that the Scientologists' Celebrity Center, bookstore and seven Church leaders should be tried for fraud and "illegally practicing as pharmacists".

full article at the link above

[Cipher13]

The CoS whackos try to get me to take their "personality tests" quite often outside Town Hall station. I laugh every time, just can't help it.

Nor would I if I could.

[Cipher13]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Sorry to resurrect a Zombie, I did not want to start another Scientology thread.

It seems seven members of the Church of Scientology have run afoul of the French government.

Scientologists charged with fraud in France: source

full article at the link above

I'm torn over this.

On one hand, they're nutcase frauds and should be punished.

On the other, that woman is so stupid she deserves to have been taken advantage of.

I say take her money off the crazies and donate it to science. She shouldn't have it either.

[Shaddim]

I took the first few tests for free once, scored extremely high. Then I explained some of my background and they never contacted me again. Too bad, I really wanted to examine their system.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

I'm torn over this.

On one hand, they're nutcase frauds and should be punished.

On the other, that woman is so stupid she deserves to have been taken advantage of.

I agree.

Plus, of course, who exactly are these French judges to say what is and what isn't a valid religion? Did she not get anything out of it because she failed to follow instructions or something? I mean, the wee man seems to get a lot out of it so what's he doing that she isn't?

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I agree.

Plus, of course, who exactly are these French judges to say what is and what isn't a valid religion? Did she not get anything out of it because she failed to follow instructions or something? I mean, the wee man seems to get a lot out of it so what's he doing that she isn't?

Scientology requires that you pay them more and more money to learn higher levels of "secrets" about the religion.

Most other religions don't require you to pay anything, it's voluntary. They also generally don't hold anything from you.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Scientology requires that you pay them more and more money to learn higher levels of "secrets" about the religion.

Yeah. So does medical school.

Sorry but I fail to see what bearing this has on the definition of "religion".

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Plus, of course, who exactly are these French judges to say what is and what isn't a valid religion?

I've decided to rename my motorcycle repair shop as "The Church of Motorcycle Repair." Beats paying taxes!

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I agree.

Plus, of course, who exactly are these French judges to say what is and what isn't a valid religion?

I guess they are more interested in defining whether the Scientology thingy is a fraud by French law. If it is, then it can't be practiced that way, which pretty much ends Scientology in France. They're in it for the money after all..

It's fraud if they claim they can provide service X and then fail, but keep promising this service X and continue to get money from you. That's the thing with Scientology, it isn't free.

Since money is being transferred between parties, all sorts of laws start applying. If Scientology cult thingy can't prove that their work actually leads to service X, then they may indeed be convicted for fraud. They are after all receiving money to provide service X, but not delivering.

So anyway, this is less about religion and more about fraud.. hey like Scientology!!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I've decided to rename my motorcycle repair shop as "The Church of Motorcycle Repair." Beats paying taxes!

I thought I was in your ignore list?

Anyways. There again, what right have any government got to say that you can't have a "Church of Motorcycle Repair" and have it treated exactly the same as any other church?

I mean, what, has the religion got to have been going a couple hundred years to receive government recognition?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani 

I guess they are more interested in defining whether the Scientology thingy is a fraud by French law. If it is, then it can't be practiced that way, which pretty much ends Scientology in France. They're in it for the money after all..

They'd just have to become Italian politicians instead then.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

They'd just have to become Italian politicians instead then.

Even Scientologists would feel a slight shiver at the thought of joining that lot!

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I mean, what, has the religion got to have been going a couple hundred years to receive government recognition?

I think the problem lies with the government being involved in defining what is and is not religion. Of course, if religions in France get a tax exemption like they do in the US then the French government does have some say in defining what is and is not religion. Otherwise, anyone could do like lpmckenna suggests and create their own religion to avoid paying taxes. As for me, I think there should be NO tax exemptions for religions. They should pay taxes like every other charitable organization. (Granted, in the US the tax rates are lower for charitable organizations but they still have to pay taxes.)

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I've decided to rename my motorcycle repair shop as "The Church of Motorcycle Repair." Beats paying taxes!

I come bearing gifts of ignition points and carburetor jets.

[olePigeon]

The Pope is sitting at his desk when a page runs in.

"Your Eminence! It's a miracle! Christ has come again!"
"Praise the Lord God in Heaven!"

The page looks apprehensive.

"... but I there's some good news and bad news."
"Well, what is it?"
"The good news is, he wants to talk directly to you."
"Praise the Lord, that is the best news in Heaven and Earth! What could possibly be bad news, my son?"
"He's calling from Utah."

[TheWOAT]

"Im wont hesitate to put my ethics on anyone else...ANYONE"

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Most other religions don't require you to pay anything, it's voluntary. They also generally don't hold anything from you.

I don’t know about that second part. Whether it’s worthless or not, there seems to be a fair amount of study material in the CoSc system. You don’t typically give a student the entirety of the reading list or exercises in one lump at the beginning, you’d spread it out over a series of levels and build the student up gradually. If one understands that there is a learning curve, one would not complain about ‘secrets’ being withheld, knowing one would learn about them once one is ready. That, at least, is the way it works in the Western Esoteric Tradition, serious Islamic, Kabbalistic and other religious studies, and judging by the martial arts films I’ve seen, amongst Shaolin monks, as well.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

I don’t know about that second part. Whether it’s worthless or not, there seems to be a fair amount of study material in the CoSc system. You don’t typically give a student the entirety of the reading list or exercises in one lump at the beginning, you’d spread it out over a series of levels and build the student up gradually. If one understands that there is a learning curve, one would not complain about ‘secrets’ being withheld, knowing one would learn about them once one is ready. That, at least, is the way it works in the Western Esoteric Tradition, serious Islamic, Kabbalistic and other religious studies, and judging by the martial arts films I’ve seen, amongst Shaolin monks, as well.

Of course, you can buy all their literature at a bookstore or borrow it from a library. The cult of Snakeoilogy "spreads it out over levels" so as to keep their sheeps' wallets open.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

That, at least, is the way it works in the Western Esoteric Tradition, serious Islamic, Kabbalistic and other religious studies, and judging by the martial arts films I’ve seen, amongst Shaolin monks, as well.

Real Kabbalah, as opposed to the Madonna nonsense that masquerades as it is not something one can pay for at a center.

It is, however, withheld until the student has reached around 50.

[Chuckit]

I would say it's mainly the exorbitant prices that make it obviously a scam. The idea of esoteric secrets in a religion is not remotely new.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

I don’t know about that second part. Whether it’s worthless or not, there seems to be a fair amount of study material in the CoSc system. You don’t typically give a student the entirety of the reading list or exercises in one lump at the beginning, you’d spread it out over a series of levels and build the student up gradually. If one understands that there is a learning curve, one would not complain about ‘secrets’ being withheld, knowing one would learn about them once one is ready. That, at least, is the way it works in the Western Esoteric Tradition, serious Islamic, Kabbalistic and other religious studies, and judging by the martial arts films I’ve seen, amongst Shaolin monks, as well.

While the CoS has a lot of study materials, all the study materials for Christianity are found in one book, the Bible. Same goes for Judaism and Islam, all their study materials are found in two books (Pentateuch and Torah for Judaism, Koran and Hadiths for Islam). And all those books are available for purchase at any major bookstore. So, why does the CoS need all the levels and secrecy, and fees at each level? It sounds un-necessarily complicated to bring people to an understanding of the CoS's spiritual beliefs. (Unless, of course, your goal as a religion is to make money and then having lots of steps with new books to buy at each step is a killer idea. Anyone know of anybody who had an idea about making money through starting a religion?)


Oh, and as to commenting on Eastern esoteric practices based on the "the martial arts films [you've] seen" is outright laughable.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

I don’t know about that second part. Whether it’s worthless or not, there seems to be a fair amount of study material in the CoSc system. You don’t typically give a student the entirety of the reading list or exercises in one lump at the beginning, you’d spread it out over a series of levels and build the student up gradually. If one understands that there is a learning curve, one would not complain about ‘secrets’ being withheld, knowing one would learn about them once one is ready. That, at least, is the way it works in the Western Esoteric Tradition, serious Islamic, Kabbalistic and other religious studies, and judging by the martial arts films I’ve seen, amongst Shaolin monks, as well.

Well, yes and no. Yes, western esoteric systems do like to hold back info from newer members. As you progress you're given a larger course load and eventually you're encouraged to strike out on your own (so to speak) and experiment. However, 99.8% of all the information has been widely published and is easily found online (if you know how to use a search engine). When I first started I had a mountain of books to draw from, and even though I was told not to jump ahead in the curriculum it was always with a wink and a nod, "don't do this yet, but if you do make sure and read Mathers' commentary first".

In fact, there are times when I wonder at what is out there in print and online, makes me cringe when I think about some of the things that a neophyte could stumble into. It's all good though, at least it's available.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

The idea of esoteric secrets in a religion is not remotely new.

or secret.

I do agree, though, if the training costs a lot of money it's a scam.


Vmarks:

The age is 40, plus it's required that you are married and "fit and of sound mind and spirit", to quote Rabbi Kaplan (pbuh).