[Doofy]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,4472460.story

The state will suspend tax refunds, welfare checks, student grants and other payments owed to Californians starting Feb. 1, Controller John Chiang announced Friday.

Chiang said he had no choice but to stop making some $3.7 billion in payments in the absence of action by the governor and lawmakers to close the state's nearly $42-billion budget deficit. More than half of those payments are tax refunds.

Isn't not giving you the tax back that you've overpaid theft, when all's said and done?

[TETENAL]

I would call it state bankruptcy.

[Big Mac]

This state is so burdened by the labor unions and other entrenched leftist bureaucracies that it's finding itself unable to afford to provide essential services. One of the wealthiest states in the country is being bankrupted by the Left. State Senator Tom McClintock predicted this outcome long ago. It's really a sad way for Schwarzenegger to end his career, but he can't take that much of the blame for what is a systemic fiscal illness.

I guess the states are going to have to go to Congress next with their hands out, begging for bail-outs that Uncle Sam himself can ill afford to provide.

[turtle777]

Hey, how about we print some more money and bail out whole States ?

-t

[kobi]

This is a prime example of how Republicans run everything. Spend, spend, spend with no oversight. All one has to do is look back at the way Republicans have bankrupted this country throughout the years starting with Nixon and ending with George W. It's always a Democrat that has to clean up the mess, always.

Big Mac- I like your tin-foil hat Leftist theories, let me guess your a Ann Coulter/ Rush Limbaugh fan also? Can you honestly say that the country is in better shape now than 8 years ago? I didn't think so.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by kobi 

This is a prime example of how Republicans run everything. Spend, spend, spend with no oversight. All one has to do is look back at the way Republicans have bankrupted this country throughout the years starting with Nixon and ending with George W. It's always a Democrat that has to clean up the mess, always.

Big Mac- I like your tin-foil hat Leftist theories, let me guess your a Ann Coulter/ Rush Limbaugh fan also? Can you honestly say that the country is in better shape now than 8 years ago? I didn't think so.

Weakest, most ill-informed knee-jerk response ever! And around here, that's a real achievement. Congrats!

Yes, it's those Republicans responsible for the fiscal woes of the bluest blue state in the country!

Too funny when people like you post on auto-pilot without knowing a single minute detail about the actual topic.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by kobi 

This is a prime example of how Republicans run everything. Spend, spend, spend with no oversight. All one has to do is look back at the way Republicans have bankrupted this country throughout the years starting with Nixon and ending with George W. It's always a Democrat that has to clean up the mess, always.

Big Mac- I like your tin-foil hat Leftist theories, let me guess your a Ann Coulter/ Rush Limbaugh fan also? Can you honestly say that the country is in better shape now than 8 years ago? I didn't think so.

Wow, what rock did you just crawl out from under?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by kobi 

This is a prime example of how Republicans run everything. Spend, spend, spend with no oversight. All one has to do is look back at the way Republicans have bankrupted this country throughout the years starting with Nixon and ending with George W. It's always a Democrat that has to clean up the mess, always.

-t

[kobi]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Weakest, most ill-informed knee-jerk response ever! And around here, that's a real achievement. Congrats!

Yes, it's those Republicans responsible for the fiscal woes of the bluest blue state in the country!

Too funny when people like you post on auto-pilot without knowing a single minute detail about the actual topic.

Coming from you Crash this a complement. I have to stir up Republican Lemmings here in the PL, you included.

It always amazes me how irate you Wing-Nuts get when the truth about the Republican party gets posted. You guys are starting to act like Sciencetologists; if your confronted with your parties sins, then you point the finger and pass the blame. No wonder the GOP is in shambles after the last eight years, you guys did it to your self's.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by kobi 

Coming from you Crash this a complement. I have to stir up Republican Lemmings here in the PL, you included.

It always amazes me how irate you Wing-Nuts get when the truth about the Republican party gets posted. You guys are starting to act like Sciencetologists; if your confronted with your parties sins, then you point the finger and pass the blame. No wonder the GOP is in shambles after the last eight years, you guys did it to your self's.

Silly rabbit, this doesn't change the fact that California is a state controlled by Left-wing Democrats. THEY made the mess there, not Repubs. You posted nothing that backs up your claims.

Also, buy a dictionary.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by kobi 

Coming from you Crash this a complement. I have to stir up Republican Lemmings here in the PL, you included.

I think what you're missing here is that there's very few actual Republicans on the NN. Most non-Dems here are independents.
That's going from memory, of course.

[olePigeon]

Yes, California's economy is a complete failure due to Democrats and labor unions. It's only the sixth large economy in the world.

Everyone is having problems right now, but Republicans especially are making it more difficult. Even Schwarzenegger is holding private meetings with Democrat officials in an effort to get around Republican filibustering and other nonsense. Yes, the Republicans are really mad about that.

Republicans refuse to cut back on spending while simultaneously refuse to raise taxes. You can't pay off a deficit without raising money and cutting back on spending, but the Republicans seem to think otherwise.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Silly rabbit, this doesn't change the fact that California is a state controlled by Left-wing Democrats. THEY made the mess there, not Repubs. You posted nothing that backs up your claims.

Wrong. California is controlled by a pretty equal mix of Democrats and Republicans. If it weren't, we wouldn't be voting in both Democratic and Republican governors. California was doing fine until the housing, credit, and other markets crashed. Nearly every state is having problems.

If you're going to blame the current mess solely on Democrats, then you need to credit California's success as a world economy solely on Democrats. You obviously aren't going to do that latter, so it stands you can't make claim to the former.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Wrong. California is controlled by a pretty equal mix of Democrats and Republicans. If it weren't, we wouldn't be voting in both Democratic and Republican governors. California was doing fine until the housing, credit, and other markets crashed. Nearly every state is having problems.

If you're going to blame the current mess solely on Democrats, then you need to credit California's success as a world economy solely on Democrats. You obviously aren't going to do that latter, so it stands you can't make claim to the former.

The Repubs in Cali are just Democrats in better suits, a prime example is the sitting Governator.

California's booming success in the past couple decades was due to an amazing tech boom. Even a state full of crazed liberals had difficulties bringing it to it's knees, but they were eventually successful.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by kobi 

Coming from you Crash this a complement. I have to stir up Republican Lemmings here in the PL, you included.

It always amazes me how irate you Wing-Nuts get when the truth about the Republican party gets posted. You guys are starting to act like Sciencetologists; if your confronted with your parties sins, then you point the finger and pass the blame. No wonder the GOP is in shambles after the last eight years, you guys did it to your self's.

Your progressive movement ladies and gentlemen.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by kobi 

*pure blather*

Wow, we're you trying for the most ill-informed, kneejerk post #2? I think you achieved it! Do you ever bother to know anything at all about a subject before you spew?

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Wrong. California is controlled by a pretty equal mix of Democrats and Republicans.

Not true. The California state legislature, and more importantly the purse strings, is controlled by a majority of Democrats and has been for years. We have a Rhino governor mainly because the last Democrat governor did such a fantastic job of putting Cali into a black hole that he was RECALLED.

If you're going to blame the current mess solely on Democrats, then you need to credit California's success as a world economy solely on Democrats.

You're such a hopeless apologist for Democrats, time and time again. This time when it's crystal clear that something is entirely their fault.

As was pointed out to you, California's success as a world economy has been largely in SPITE of the nitwit Democrats running Sacramento into the ground.

Only a lefty views a healthy economy as something a bunch of bureaucrats get credit for- the Democrats have done what they can to chase the Aerospace, Tech and Entertainment industries that drive California's economy out of the state. Those and other industries are responsible for Cali's success, not the state morons who do nothing but steal their and everyone else's money and toss it down a rathole, then whine that they can't even PAY THIER OWN FREAKIN BILLS!

Meanwhile, only a hopeless lefty could possibly let a bunch of bureaucrats off the hook for sending out I.O.Us rather than tax refunds and payments to their own welfare nanny state, because they've been spending money like drunken sailors, resisting ALL efforts to curtail spending.

Once again for partisan Dems, up is down, black is white, the sky is green and grass is blue.

Republicans are the ONLY ones in the state legislature pushing for any meaningful spending cuts, and have been the ONLY ones standing between the drunken sailor Democrats and their endless quest for higher and higher taxes (already the HIGHEST in the nation) that will only serve to further kill off more business and send it elsewhere. Their little 'fee' rather than use the word 'tax' stunt was just the latest example.

Lefties as usual have to run from facts- there are states in the union that have NO state taxes at all, and yet don't run deficits like California. The problem with Cali, is it's run ENTIRELY as liberal Democrats run things- into the ground.

Republicans are the ones who pushed for state spending to grow only with inflation, rather then the 40% it's grown just in the past 5 years- even as California's population and student rolls have shrunk in that same time! Had the Republican plan been followed, and spending been tied to the rate of inflation, we'd now have a surplus, not the hopeless black hole we do have. Witness the idiot Dems running around crowing about education, when the fact is, the state now 'educates' fewer students than it did 5 years ago when it spent 40% less. But expecting a state run by Democrats to control spending is exactly like expecting inmates to run an asylum.

For you to even claim that it's been the minority party in charge of spending and the party that refuses to cut spending, just shows how out in left field Democrat-la-la land apologists like you and kobi really are.

California is a perfect blueprint for federal level Democrats to follow too. Start all the hopeless boondoggles you want. Toss tons of money down 50 different ratholes, increase spending by nearly half in the span of half a decade, invite millions of people in to leech off money you don't even have, then when the bills come due and you can't even make the payments, have your blindest supporters make up excuses for you and blame anyone and anything but the spend-crazy Democrats. Perfect.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

The Repubs in Cali are just Democrats in better suits, a prime example is the sitting Governator.

Yeah, Ronald Regan was a raving liberal.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

California's booming success in the past couple decades was due to an amazing tech boom. *snip foaming mouth comment*

You're also forgetting that over 70% of YOUR produce grown in the U.S. comes from California. 4 of the 5 leading agricultural counties in the entire country are in California alone. California has always been crucial to the U.S.' economy outside of the technology boom.

You're (not you specifically) an idiot if you think these economic problems are a partisan issue. The budget had been balanced in 2006 despite a declining overall economy. Since California's economy is so large, the problems are exaggerated a great deal. California has some of the most expensive real estate in the country, so when everything started crashing down, California was especially hit hard.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Not true. The California state legislature, and more importantly the purse strings, is controlled by a majority of Democrats and has been for years. We have a Rhino governor mainly because the last Democrat governor did such a fantastic job of putting Cali into a black hole that he was RECALLED.

A majority not large enough to actually do anything, which is why time and time again, every single year they are in a deadlock over the budget.. The Democrat governor did such a fantastic job of putting California in a black hole, it took the previous Republican governor with the f**king genius idea of deregulating California's energy that put us there in the first place.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

This time when it's crystal clear that something is entirely their fault.

I am not denying that Democrats don't have a hand in it, but to solely blame it only on Democrats is wrong. California's problems are cumulative and amplified by mistakes from both sides. I'm just running damage control. Your blathering accusations are wrong.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Only a lefty views a healthy economy as something a bunch of bureaucrats get credit for- the Democrats have done what they can to chase the Aerospace, Tech and Entertainment industries that drive California's economy out of the state.

I'd like to see some examples of that.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Those and other industries are responsible for Cali's success, not the state morons who do nothing but steal their and everyone else's money and toss it down a rathole, then whine that they can't even PAY THIER OWN FREAKIN BILLS!

California did not cause the current economic meltdown of the country. Why are you insistent on blaming Democrats for the current state of things? California took an extra three months to pass a balanced budget in 2006. Between then and 2008 is when most of the recession went into affect.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Meanwhile, only a hopeless lefty could possibly let a bunch of bureaucrats off the hook for sending out I.O.Us rather than tax refunds and payments to their own welfare nanny state, because they've been spending money like drunken sailors, resisting ALL efforts to curtail spending.

Again, you're wrong. Republicans are proposing $15 billion in reduced spending. Democrats are proposing $18 billion in reduced spending. Where they disagree is not on the reduced spending, but on where that money will be cut from.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Lefties as usual have to run from facts-

Did God tell you that? Arkansas must be the center of lefty society, facts have absolutely no baring there.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

there are states in the union that have NO state taxes at all, and yet don't run deficits like California. The problem with Cali, is it's run ENTIRELY as liberal Democrats run things- into the ground.

They may not have personal state income tax, but they have high corporate state income tax. Nevada being the exception, most of their revenue comes from gambling. California's economy eclipses that of any other state, so obviously no other state will have the deficit problems that California does.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Had the Republican plan been followed, and spending been tied to the rate of inflation, we'd now have a surplus, not the hopeless black hole we do have. Witness the idiot Dems running around crowing about education, when the fact is, the state now 'educates' fewer students than it did 5 years ago when it spent 40% less. But expecting a state run by Democrats to control spending is exactly like expecting inmates to run an asylum.

There's a flaw in your perfect plan. All the asylums would have been underfunded and shut down, leaving none of them left for you to stick any Democrats in.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

For you to even claim that it's been the minority party in charge of spending...

I didn't.

[k2director]

In light of this budget news, I think all Californians should congratulate themselves on passing that recent multi-billion dollar ballot measure to build a bullet train from LA to San Francisco. Money well spent!!

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Yeah, Ronald Regan was a raving liberal.

You're also forgetting that over 70% of YOUR produce grown in the U.S. comes from California. 4 of the 5 leading agricultural counties in the entire country are in California alone. California has always been crucial to the U.S.' economy outside of the technology boom.

You're (not you specifically) an idiot if you think these economic problems are a partisan issue. The budget had been balanced in 2006 despite a declining overall economy. Since California's economy is so large, the problems are exaggerated a great deal. California has some of the most expensive real estate in the country, so when everything started crashing down, California was especially hit hard.

Ronnie is the Governator? Wow, who knew?

It isn't a partisan issue, it's philosophical. Liberalism has thrown California into disarray, the barrel wasn't bottomless and they found out the hard way. Fiscal stupidity, the trademark of their slice of the Democratic party, has led them into this. To say otherwise is what is idiotic.

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Not true. The California state legislature, and more importantly the purse strings, is controlled by a majority of Democrats and has been for years. We have a Rhino governor mainly because the last Democrat governor did such a fantastic job of putting Cali into a black hole that he was RECALLED.

You really want to talk about the recall, led by Republicans following the "energy crisis", that actually was Enron's doing?? You really want to talk about that imposture? Really?

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

A majority not large enough to actually do anything, which is why time and time again, every single year they are in a deadlock over the budget..

A majority not large enough to do anything my ass. You're just backpedaling from even admitting there was a majority of Democrats in the first place. Every year it's a few Republicans who keep the drunken sailor Democrats from raising taxes again and again (pretty much their ONLY legislative tool, right out the leftwing handbook of pure stupidity) and every year the Democrats whine and cry fowl and pretend they can't pass a budget, but they have every year, and they've increased spending by 40% and now want to keep it at such ridiculous levels when it's clear that it's unsustainable.

The Democrat governor did such a fantastic job of putting California in a black hole, it took the previous Republican governor with the f**king genius idea of deregulating California's energy that put us there in the first place.

Here we go, the leftwing lunatic version of why California is in a deficit. The previous governor isn't responsible for the rampant overspending that took place under Davis, nor the ludicrous mistakes Davis and congressional Democrats made in energy policy during his term. He was recalled because the people were fed up with him, and as usual, you apologists whined and stomped your feet and blamed everyone but the Democrat crook who was ousted.

California's problems are cumulative and amplified by mistakes from both sides. I'm just running damage control. Your blathering accusations are wrong.

You're always running ill-informed damage control on behalf of crooked Democrats! Yes, the vast majority of California's current budget crisis is due directly to Democrats in control of spending in the state congress.

I notice a pattern with you liberals always- you give Democrats and the left credit and spout "Blue state! Blue state!" constantly when you're spinning it as a positive, but suddenly when California is revealed to be the trainwreck of a blue state that it is, you want to turn around and go, "Democrats? WHAT Democrats? Blue state? Huh?! Why, California is red! And it's all the Republican's fault!" Let's go back YEARS to past Republican governors and blame them for the problems of 2009- even Reagan!

California did not cause the current economic meltdown of the country. Why are you insistent on blaming Democrats for the current state of things?

Why are you insisting on using the entirety of the current economic crisis as an excuse for California's budget problems? FACT: California Democrats increased spending by 40% off the proceeds of the housing bubble when it was clear to anyone with any kind of sense that that wasn't sustainable. FACT: California Democrats still want to keep the level of spending at the same inflated levels as if revenue was the same as it was during the housing bubble.

How is it that everyone else can figure out that when there's a downturn, there's also going to be a downturn in revenue, and you can't keep spending as if you constantly have boom times?

How is it also that even though they were repeatedly warned by Republicans, who have long wanted to tie spending increases to inflation, Democrats even managed to increase spending by 40% when the surplus money should have been set aside for times EXACTLY like now! Because the leftwing playbook says "spend spend spend" always, up to and beyond every dime you take in, and when there's a shortfall, run and blame the taxpayers and expect to steal that much more from them. NEVER admit spending is at fault. And of course, rely on people like you not to know any better and make excuses for it.

Again, you're wrong. Republicans are proposing $15 billion in reduced spending. Democrats are proposing $18 billion in reduced spending.

And again, you're wrong. Republicans are proposing $15.6 billion in ACTUAL spending cuts.

Democrats are only proposing $9 billion in "cuts" that are really DECREASES in the INCREASE ( again, straight out of the lefty handbook to fool people like you into believing a spending increase is actual a cut) and then another 9 bills in new taxes, oh excuse me, "fees". And as is also right out of the leftyloon playbook, without a shred of consideration for the negative economic impact of that much more taxation on the highest taxed tax base in the country right in the middle of an economic downturn. Typical Democrat policy of burning everything at both ends and then blaming the results- like bankrupting the entire state!- on Republicans.

California's economy eclipses that of any other state, so obviously no other state will have the deficit problems that California does.

That's Democrat 'thinking' if ever there was! So the state with the most income automatically has to have the biggest deficit! HA! Never mind the fact that you're wrong on many levels, the most important being that California's budget deficit is in percentage to its income far higher than it should be. Of the other 49 states, California's budget deficit is 48%- nearly HALF- the other 49 states combined!

There's a flaw in your perfect plan. All the asylums would have been underfunded and shut down, leaving none of them left for you to stick any Democrats in.

You can't even make a proper analogy. The asylums would have increased their budgets by a whopping 40% despite having fewer inmates to take care of. Batshit insane Democrats would insist they need to maintain that level of funding, even as the asylums close due to bankruptcy from ridiculous overspending, and people like you would blame Republicans who warned about the approaching cliff ledge years ago.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by villalobos 

You really want to talk about the recall, led by Republicans following the "energy crisis", that actually was Enron's doing?? You really want to talk about that imposture? Really?

Do you really want to get into something you clearly know nothing about?

So now you're going to try and blame California's current budget crisis on Enron?

You people are just throwing up whatever **** you can and seeing if it will stick.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

It's really a sad way for Schwarzenegger to end his career, but he can't take that much of the blame for what is a systemic fiscal illness.

Ah yes. The classic "The Republicans have been in charge with a veto pen but we still blame the Democrats" argument.

[Chuckit]

The veto pen is not enough to establish fiscal policy. Schwarzenegger has been raking them across the coals since he first took office, but incompetence and irresponsibility are deeply intrenched in the California Legislature. (This isn't a Democrats vs. Republicans thing, IMO. Our leaders are just useless.)

[finboy]

Originally Posted by kobi 

It's always a Democrat that has to clean up the mess, always.

Wow. Seems like US History eluded you in school, huh?

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by k2director 

In light of this budget news, I think all Californians should congratulate themselves on passing that recent multi-billion dollar ballot measure to build a bullet train from LA to San Francisco. Money well spent!!

Yes, it is money well spent. The funding for the bullet train was from 2 years ago and is already set. None of the money for the bullet train is coming out of this year (or any future year's) budget.

It's already been payed for and has no baring on the current fiscal crisis.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Ronnie is the Governator? Wow, who knew?

No, you said all Californian Republicans are Democrats in nicer suits. Ronald Regan was governor of California.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

It isn't a partisan issue, it's philosophical. Liberalism has thrown California into disarray...

Sharing a responsibility in helping people less fortunate is not a problem. It's unfortunate you should think so.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Fiscal stupidity, the trademark of their slice of the Democratic party, has led them into this. To say otherwise is what is idiotic.

I would like to see some examples of Democratic stupidity that isn't matched or exceeded by Republican fiscal stupidity here in California.

Perhaps you missed the part when Pete Wilson deregulated California's energy that sent it spiraling into debt in the first place? Sounds eerily familiar, like when banks and lenders were deregulated. I wonder whatever became of that?

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by finboy 

Wow. Seems like US History eluded you in school, huh?

Example?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

No, you said all Californian Republicans are Democrats in nicer suits. Ronald Regan was governor of California.

We're in the 21st century now, try and catch up.

Sharing a responsibility in helping people less fortunate is not a problem. It's unfortunate you should think so.

Helping people starts with the individual, not a bloated and broken government. Last year I donated >200x more to charity than Biden, how about you?

I would like to see some examples of Democratic stupidity that isn't matched or exceeded by Republican fiscal stupidity here in California.

Perhaps you missed the part when Pete Wilson deregulated California's energy that sent it spiraling into debt in the first place? Sounds eerily familiar, like when banks and lenders were deregulated. I wonder whatever became of that?

Liberal Dems have the ball in Cali right now, can't say they've done much more than fumble it at every opportunity. Fact is, they're an utter failure and have destroyed an economic powerhouse in record time. That's impressive. Was it deliberate or are they just irrevocably stupid?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

The veto pen is not enough to establish fiscal policy. Schwarzenegger has been raking them across the coals since he first took office, but incompetence and irresponsibility are deeply intrenched in the California Legislature. (This isn't a Democrats vs. Republicans thing, IMO. Our leaders are just useless.)

How so? If Schwarzenegger thinks a program is too expensive, he vetos it when it comes across his desk. He also has veto power over the budget.

I fail to see how this can happen and the Republicans can blame it on the Democrats.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by goMac 

How so? If Schwarzenegger thinks a program is too expensive, he vetos it when it comes across his desk. He also has veto power over the budget.

I fail to see how this can happen and the Republicans can blame it on the Democrats.

The Democrats overwhelmingly control the legislature, and the legislature has the power of the purse. Yes, Schwarzenegger can veto bills, but he's a weak, moderate Republican to begin with, and after his defeat in the second special election he called against the legislature he lost a substantial amount of the power he formerly had - he goes along with the radical Dems of the legislature most of the time because it's easier that way.

[crazeinc]

Originally Posted by k2director 

In light of this budget news, I think all Californians should congratulate themselves on passing that recent multi-billion dollar ballot measure to build a bullet train from LA to San Francisco. Money well spent!!

Can't wait!

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

A majority not large enough to do anything my ass. You're just backpedaling from even admitting there was a majority of Democrats in the first place.

I never said they weren't a majority.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Every year it's a few Republicans who keep the drunken sailor Democrats from raising taxes again and again (pretty much their ONLY legislative tool, right out the leftwing handbook of pure stupidity) and every year the Democrats whine and cry fowl and pretend they can't pass a budget, but they have every year, and they've increased spending by 40% and now want to keep it at such ridiculous levels when it's clear that it's unsustainable.

I'm not defending Democrats from their out of control spending, I am stating that it is not only their fault. I stated already that the California's fiscal crisis is compounded by mistakes from both sides, and the current recession is exaggerating the problem. You keep insisting that it's only the Democrats, I am trying to explain that it isn't just the Democrats. Both sides are screwing this up, but blaming only one of them is wrong.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Here we go, the leftwing lunatic version of why California is in a deficit... *snip drivel*

See above.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Why, California is red! And it's all the Republican's fault!" Let's go back YEARS to past Republican governors and blame them for the problems of 2009- even Reagan!

I never said that, and I didn't blame Ronald Reagan for anything. I was pointing out that the Democrats aren't the only people to blame.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Why are you insisting on using the entirety of the current economic crisis as an excuse for California's budget problems?

I didn't. Before the recession hit, California's budget was actually balanced in 2006, despite increased spending by the Democrats. When the recession hit, the spending could no longer be sustained. This exacerbated the current crisis, but it is not the reason for it.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

And again, you're wrong. Republicans are proposing $15.6 billion in ACTUAL spending cuts.

I'll give you three guesses as to where those cuts are coming from and why it's not acceptable.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

That's Democrat 'thinking' if ever there was! So the state with the most income automatically has to have the biggest deficit! HA!

No, the amount of debt is much larger than any other state, but the ratio of debt to income is pretty comparable to several other states. The size of California's economy eclipses the other 49 states, so the size of the debt will also. It isn't an excuse.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

You can't even make a proper analogy. The asylums would have increased their budgets by a whopping 40% despite having fewer inmates to take care of.

Since we're stereotyping:

Nearly all funding would be cut from social services because Conservative Republicans would expect everyone (no excuses) to help themselves, ergo there doesn't need to be an asylum or ward, and we don't need "pseudoscience" like psychology. You'd hold prayer sessions to cure homosexuals and schizophrenics, taking a page right out of Scientology that these are illnesses that can be cured by faith. Asylums would be privatized institutions with no regulation, expected to make better judgement as they "work themselves out." Anyone who thinks women should have a voice, that people don't have to proclaim a nation under God, would most likely be locked up in your asylums. Taxes would be removed, along with regulation and restrictions. The state would quickly develop into a nation of the top 10% controlling the policies and welfare of the bottom 90%.

[Doofy]

Asylums in Cali are to keep the sane people safe and the mental people out, right?

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

We're in the 21st century now, try and catch up.

Yeah, who cares about history and facts. We're in the 21st century.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Helping people starts with the individual, not a bloated and broken government. Last year I donated >200x more to charity than Biden, how about you?

Most people are not as generous as you and do not want to help other people. It's human nature, we're greedy. If you take away government assist and protection programs, less fortunate people will be taken advantage of. It comes back to the History thing you're so quick to dismiss, because if there's one thing for certain, people will take advantage other people if there is nothing to intervene.

I couldn't count how much I donated, I usually donate $1 to cancer research when I'm at the grocery store, and $25 to stem cell research when I file my taxes. So maybe $100. I'm also considered poor in my area, so for me that's a lot of money.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Liberal Dems have the ball in Cali right now, can't say they've done much more than fumble it at every opportunity. Fact is, they're an utter failure and have destroyed an economic powerhouse in record time. That's impressive. Was it deliberate or are they just irrevocably stupid?

I'm not saying Democrats haven't screwed up, I've only been saying it isn't only their fault. As individuals I'm sure they're really, really smart. As a group, yes, probably stupid. That goes for Republicans as well.

Here's the problem: Republicans don't want taxes and they also want to cut spending on public works and social services; however, at the same time they want public works and social services. That doesn't work. You need to have taxes to do those things.

Democrats don't mind raising taxes, but as soon as they get the money for public works and social services, they're quick to spend most of it on new programs instead of funding existing programs. This doesn't work because then they're overspending on bond measures promised to existing programs while simultaneously trying to increase spending to fund the new programs, resulting in a perpetual increase in spending.

Neither side wants to compromise. Republicans don't want to fund programs we need, Democrats don't want to stop funding programs we don't need.

[olePigeon]

CRASH, just heard on the news today that Democrats and Republicans are close to sealing a budget deal that includes a few things we're both obviously pretty passionate about:

1. Democrats will agree to a permanent spending cap with increases only based on inflation & population (exactly what you stated would be a good idea.)
2. Republicans conceded to a few tax increases to that will help keep current social services and public works programs going.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Do you really want to get into something you clearly know nothing about?

So now you're going to try and blame California's current budget crisis on Enron?

You people are just throwing up whatever **** you can and seeing if it will stick.

CRASH HARDDRIVE yet again shows his ignorance.

villalobos is right. The recall of Gov. Davis was about the energy crisis.

Gov Davis was recalled due to the energy crisis caused by Enron.

Stupid Republican Gov Pete Wilson deregulated the the electricity industry.

Deregulation lead to Enron defrauding California out of billions of dollars.



It's always stupid Republicans and deregulation. Why are Republicans so in love with deregulation?

Republicans love:

1. deregulation the energy market --> lead to fraud
2. deregulation the housing market --> lead to fraud
3. deregulation the stock market --> lead to fraud

Stop the idiot Republicans and their crazy deregulation ideas. No more idiot deregulation.

More regulations and oversight is what we need.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I'm not defending Democrats from their out of control spending, I am stating that it is not only their fault. I stated already that the California's fiscal crisis is compounded by mistakes from both sides, and the current recession is exaggerating the problem. You keep insisting that it's only the Democrats, I am trying to explain that it isn't just the Democrats. Both sides are screwing this up, but blaming only one of them is wrong.

I don't see how it's anything but the fault of the Democrats in the legislature and the Democrats in the unions who together agree to overspend on services and to deliver services at only inflated prices. I recently saw a listing for a $70,000 starting salary at the LAUSD (local, yes, but still significant and Democrat controlled) with an education requirement of high school graduate. $70,000 school district job to a person with only a high school diploma. Pretty funny. And people like you still want to blame Republicans for ridiculous budget deficits. It's sounds highly nonsensical, Pigeon, and I hope you know that.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

More regulations and oversight is what we need.

I have trouble not reading this with an ironic tone of voice.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I have trouble not reading this with an ironic tone of voice.

I have trouble reading it, period. Most of said poster's spew is almost unintelligible and entirely incoherent...it's like randomly selecting words from a word generator and making sentences from them.

I do always enjoy when people blame the housing crisis on deregulation, rather than the much bigger culprit - Democrats punishing banks who didn't give enough housing loans to broke-ass people who couldn't even qualify for a standard mortgage. But that's another discussion entirely.

I was interested to see that nobody here has mentioned California's pathetic tendency to allow their own citizens to propose and vote on laws. It certainly is closer to true democracy than the republic that is the rest of the United States...and now we're seeing just how miserably such a philosophy has failed.

It's not that they've just run out of money to cover social programs and public works. It's that the social programs afforded there are far and beyond anything sensible, and The People have too much say in what's going on. Why do you think you see warning labels such as "This product is known to the state of California to contain lead", etc?

I'm not at all surprised that California is falling hard and fast. Of course, they'll be the first state to beg the federal government for handouts, and you can bet the bank that Obama is going to be all over that sh!t like a fat kid on a cupcake.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

More regulations and oversight is what we need.

...continuing his FAIL spree...

-t

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

...continuing his FAIL spree...

-t

I think you are flame baiting.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I think you are flame baiting.

Sweetie, I don't really think you have room to talk here. Take a chill pill and sit back for awhile, unless you want the entirety of 'NN Lounge regulars to band together and demand your permanent bannination from the forum.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I have trouble reading it, period. Most of said poster's spew is almost unintelligible and entirely incoherent...it's like randomly selecting words from a word generator and making sentences from them.

I do always enjoy when people blame the housing crisis on deregulation, rather than the much bigger culprit - Democrats punishing banks who didn't give enough housing loans to broke-ass people who couldn't even qualify for a standard mortgage. But that's another discussion entirely.

How are "Democrats punishing banks who didn't give enough housing loans to broke-ass people who couldn't even qualify for a standard mortgage"?

Maybe the bigger culprit is of the housing market crisis is the deregulation of the banking and financial markets.

You know the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999.

Yes, deregulation is the culprit. Stop the deregulation insanity.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Sweetie, I don't really think you have room to talk here. Take a chill pill and sit back for awhile, unless you want the entirety of 'NN Lounge regulars to band together and demand your permanent bannination from the forum.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I have trouble reading it, period. Most of said poster's spew is almost unintelligible and entirely incoherent...it's like randomly selecting words from a word generator and making sentences from them.

Please, continue calling me sweetie. I think you are flame baiting as well.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

How are "Democrats punishing banks who didn't give enough housing loans to broke-ass people who couldn't even qualify for a standard mortgage"?

Maybe the bigger culprit is of the housing market crisis is the deregulation of the banking and financial markets.

You know the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999.

Yes, deregulation is the culprit. Stop the deregulation insanity.

And you know what the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977, signed into effect by one Jimmy Carter, is - right?

Are you also aware that in 1995, Bill Clinton used the CRA to tighten regulations on lending institutions in order to force them to increase lending to extremely high-risk consumers?

Were you aware that in 1997, Cato Institute chair William A. Niskanen predicted exactly what happened as a result of Democrats demanding that broke-ass minorities be given concessions to enable them to buy homes they couldn't afford?

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

During March 1995 congressional hearings William A. Niskanen, chair of the Cato Institute, criticized the proposals for political favoritism in allocating credit and micromanagement by regulators, and that there was no assurance that banks would not be expected to operate at a loss. He predicted they would be very costly to the economy and banking system, and that the primary long term effect would be to contract the banking system. He recommended Congress repeal the Act.

What has happened? Banks couldn't operate at a loss. Multiple long-standing banks have crumbled and either declared bankruptcy or been forced to fold into other existing banks. The economy has dipped into a recession. Competition in the banking system has been rapidly decreased as more lending institutions have been unable to stand up against the massive quantity of subprime and other risky loans they were pressured into underwriting by so-called "well-meaning" Democrats.

Deregulation had almost nothing to do with it. The pipe dreams of the liberal left played a much larger role in the mortgage meltdown that has since been a significant contributor to the current economic recession.

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Please, continue calling me sweetie. I think you are flame baiting as well.

Look - I'm trying to do you a favor here. I'm going to lay it out for you - nobody, including the Democrats and liberals here, appreciate your hateful rantings and half-constructed "arguments". If you don't want a mass demand of your permanent bannination, I am objectively suggesting that you just cool it for a few days. Just sit back, don't post in the PWL for a few days, and do yourself a favor by avoiding another temp ban so soon after your last one.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Please, continue calling me sweetie. I think you are flame baiting as well.

Hey sweetie

-t

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

And you know what the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977, signed into effect by one Jimmy Carter, is - right?

Are you also aware that in 1995, Bill Clinton used the CRA to tighten regulations on lending institutions in order to force them to increase lending to extremely high-risk consumers?

Were you aware that in 1997, Cato Institute chair William A. Niskanen predicted exactly what happened as a result of Democrats demanding that broke-ass minorities be given concessions to enable them to buy homes they couldn't afford?



What has happened? Banks couldn't operate at a loss. Multiple long-standing banks have crumbled and either declared bankruptcy or been forced to fold into other existing banks. The economy has dipped into a recession. Competition in the banking system has been rapidly decreased as more lending institutions have been unable to stand up against the massive quantity of subprime and other risky loans they were pressured into underwriting by so-called "well-meaning" Democrats.

Deregulation had almost nothing to do with it. The pipe dreams of the liberal left played a much larger role in the mortgage meltdown that has since been a significant contributor to the current economic recession.

Deregulation has almost nothing to do with it and it's all because of CRA. Hah..

Don't tell me. CRA is still in effect and banks continue making loans to people who can't afford it.

By the way, Pres. Bush in 2002 demanded $440 billion from Fannie Mae to be made available to first-time, low-income buyers. Maybe Pres. Bush is a democrat too.

http://www.hud.gov/news/speeches/presremarks.cfm

[shifuimam]

You are aware that every President is going to do certain things to keep the opposing party at bay, right?

That particular move on Bush's part was likely a bad one.

I'm not saying the CRA doesn't still exist. I'm saying it played a massive role in the mortgage meltdown, by being leveraged by Bill Clinton to bully banks into approving loans to people who couldn't afford them.

If you are low-income and you can't afford a house. Rent. Period. The government is in no way obligated to ensure that you can purchase a home. Hell, the government isn't even obligated to put a roof over your head.