[pooka]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I'm going to have to agree with Big Mac here. Sure fundamentalism is a dangerous brew no matter what it pertains to, the fact remains a cartoonist was killed by Radical Muslims, I really can't think of a single parallel with any other religion. Family Guy depicts God and Jesus as sly bar guys trying to pick up chicks, now I'm sure there were some Christians that got their collective panties in a bunch, but they didn't kill anybody for it.

So far sek is the only one that makes any sense in here. I wish to give you the coveted NotABiasedPussy Award®

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I'm going to have to agree with Big Mac here. Sure fundamentalism is a dangerous brew no matter what it pertains to, the fact remains a cartoonist was killed by Radical Muslims, I really can't think of a single parallel with any other religion. Family Guy depicts God and Jesus as sly bar guys trying to pick up chicks, now I'm sure there were some Christians that got their collective panties in a bunch, but they didn't kill anybody for it.

The Qur’an strictly forbids drawings of people, especially Mohammad, because it may lead to false idol worship. Some people believe abortion is murder, and therefor strictly forbidden by the New Testament. In both cases, people murder other people as a result of each action defying their religious beliefs.

Christians murdered people in the 17th century for simply depicting images Christians thought were pagan. Catholics were murdered under Protestant kings for something as simple as a silver goblet or a necklace, even if they weren't Catholic.

I still don't understand what makes Christianity a religion and not Scientology.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I'm going to have to agree with Big Mac here. Sure fundamentalism is a dangerous brew no matter what it pertains to, the fact remains a cartoonist was killed by Radical Muslims, I really can't think of a single parallel with any other religion. Family Guy depicts God and Jesus as sly bar guys trying to pick up chicks, now I'm sure there were some Christians that got their collective panties in a bunch, but they didn't kill anybody for it.

I think the point they were making was that the underlying problem is the same, the differences only relate to the extents in which each respective group will go.

This is about extents. I agree with Big Mac too that there are few, if any examples of other religions going to the same extent this often, but still, the differences between hardcore Muslims and hardcore anything else is not a completely apples vs. oranges comparison. Same shit, different pile.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I think the point they were making was that the underlying problem is the same, the differences only relate to the extents in which each respective group will go.

This is about extents. I agree with Big Mac too that there are few, if any examples of other religions going to the same extent this often, but still, the differences between hardcore Muslims and hardcore anything else is not a completely apples vs. oranges comparison. Same shit, different pile.

Exactly.

The willingness to commit violence is present in fundamentalists of every religious persuasion. At this point in time/history the only difference among the Judeo-ChrIslamic faiths in regards to the use of violence is that among Muslim fundamentalists there is a much lower threshold (compared to the other Abrahamic faiths) for deciding how/why to commit violence in the name of their religion. It's not like fundamentalist Christians or Jews (or fundamentalist believers in polytheistic faiths like Hinduism) are not now committing violence in the name of their religion. Adherent of those faiths simply have--at this point in time/history--a much higher threshold for when they will commit acts of violence on behalf of their religious beliefs. That is the only difference at play here; It is a difference of degree and NOT a difference of kind.

[subego]

So, has anyone seen the episodes?

Was the second episode rewritten (and bleeped) because of the dust-up?

[BadKosh]

The cultural immaturity and lack of humor displayed by the Muslims is getting old. They need to mellow out or get back on their collective meds! The behavior of the vocal/violent Muslim types has done more harm than good.

[The Final Dakar]

Yeah, we need a lecture in maturity from a guy who replaces the "O" in the president's last name with a "0".

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Yeah, we need a lecture in maturity from a guy who replaces the "O" in the president's last name with a "0".

0 snap!

[Shaddim]

Christians and Jews who oppose South Park's humor ask others to boycott the show. Muslims who oppose South Park's humor threaten Parker and Stone with death. Seems like quite a difference, but maybe I'm missing something.

[Uncle Skeleton]

And Big Mac threatens to nuke Mecca over hijackings. Over-reactions abound. Most of it is all talk. Idle threats don't really interest me; there's enough actual action in the world that I don't have to resort to "interpreting" idle threats.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by subego 

So, has anyone seen the episodes?

Was the second episode rewritten (and bleeped) because of the dust-up?

didn't see it. I haven't watched it in years but from the way part one was described on the news and how it seemed toned down in part two gives the impression that they backed off a bit. pussies

[Sage]

Um, it was Comedy Central who censored the episode, not Trey and Matt.

[DrTacoMD]

Yeah, I saw the second episode.

 

It turns out that the man in the bear suit was actually Santa Claus, not Muhammad. Throughout the rest of the episode, Muhammad appeared running around town, but entirely hidden behind a large black "Censored" bar. Additionally, they bleeped out his name for the entire episode, though you could clearly see the characters mouthing "Muhammed". Finally, then bleeped out nearly a minute's worth of dialog at the end of the episode, during which the characters described what they had "learned today."

So basically, they turned the entire episode into an oblique meta-tirade about censorship. Whether that was the plan all along or not, I don't know.

EDIT:

According to a statement by Matt and Trey, they had nothing to do with the audio censoring -- it sounds like Comedy Central did all the bleeping, even the end portion. Sounds like those two are pissed... I'll be interested to see what they do for next week's episode.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Christians and Jews who oppose South Park's humor ask others to boycott the show. Muslims who oppose South Park's humor threaten Parker and Stone with death. Seems like quite a difference, but maybe I'm missing something.

I think we've established that there is a difference between extents. The question is whether or not the fundamental underlying convictions among the various religions are the same in their basic construct, to which I say no.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

And Big Mac threatens to nuke Mecca over hijackings. Over-reactions abound. Most of it is all talk. Idle threats don't really interest me; there's enough actual action in the world that I don't have to resort to "interpreting" idle threats.

Except that, on a regular basis, Muslims like to strap bombs to themselves and blow sh*t up.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I think we've established that there is a difference between extents. The question is whether or not the fundamental underlying convictions among the various religions are the same in their basic construct, to which I say no.

That is, except that one group has made a habit out of blowing themselves to hell and taking out a city block in the process.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

That is, except that one group has made a habit out of blowing themselves to hell and taking out a city block in the process.

A *radical sub-group claiming to be part of one group* has made a habit out of blowing themselves to hell and taking out a city block in the process. The group itself has not.

I understand that it's easy to lump a whole group together with the actions of less than 1% of that group's population, but you cannot convict a whole group based only on such a small percentage. It's like when Libs find video clips of a few stupid Conservatives and use those clips to try to paint all Conservatives as stupid.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

That is, except that one group has made a habit out of blowing themselves to hell and taking out a city block in the process.

Is the idea that there are people who do harmful things in acting on religious convictions to various extents a new concept? Again, same shit, different pile.

Moreover, and I always return to this question, if we agree that Islam is a more harmful faith or however you want to characterize what it is that some of you believe, how is this at all actionable?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

A *radical sub-group claiming to be part of one group* has made a habit out of blowing themselves to hell and taking out a city block in the process. The group itself has not.

I understand that it's easy to lump a whole group together with the actions of less than 1% of that group's population, but you cannot convict a whole group based only on such a small percentage. It's like when Libs find video clips of a few stupid Conservatives and use those clips to try to paint all Conservatives as stupid.

Seems that 1% of a particular culture trying to blow you, and themselves, up is cause for some major concern.

Find all the radical/militant factions and liquidate them all. Hell, I'd even include the active members of the IRA, just to be fair.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Seems that 1% of a particular culture trying to blow you, and themselves, up is cause for some major concern.

Find all the radical/militant factions and liquidate them all. Hell, I'd even include the active members of the IRA, just to be fair.

Since there is some evidence of the Pope being aware of and covering up these Catholic sex scandals, do you think that he should be arrested providing that this evidence is sound?

[Shaddim]

I dunno, but prison would be fitting, I'd say. That's the difference between blowing and blowing up, I suppose.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I dunno, but prison would be fitting, I'd say. That's the difference between blowing and blowing up, I suppose.

How long of a sentence?

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Except that, on a regular basis, Muslims like to strap bombs to themselves and blow sh*t up.

The goal of terrorists is to make you terrified of them. Obviously it's working on you. Do you enjoy furthering their agenda?

On a regular basis (more regular and more often than terrorism), motorists kill themselves and take others with them. Should we liquidate all motorists too?

[DrTacoMD]

Can't we just kill everyone? That would make life so much easier.

Cuz, you know, we'd all be dead.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

How long of a sentence?

I don't think he'll live much longer, he's a pretty old guy. Anything over 10 years will be a life sentence.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

The goal of terrorists is to make you terrified of them. Obviously it's working on you. Do you enjoy furthering their agenda?

On a regular basis (more regular and more often than terrorism), motorists kill themselves and take others with them. Should we liquidate all motorists too?

If "furthering their agenda" means wiping them off the face of the globe, then they're succeeding. Find a large concentration of them, drop large FAE, repeat when needed.

Motorists don't typically leave their place of origin hell-bent blowing up a bus load of school kids.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

If "furthering their agenda" means wiping them off the face of the globe, then they're succeeding. Find a large concentration of them, drop large FAE, repeat when needed.

Fast Acting Enema?

You really think that's going to stop them (whatever it is)? If they did that to you, would that make you stop antagonizing them, or would it encourage you to escalate? Keep in mind that by your metric, they outnumber you (Muslims vs Americans).

Just listen to yourself... "they put one of ours in the hospital, we put one of theirs in the morgue" ... "they blaspheme against us, we suicide bomb against them" ... "they suicide bomb against us, we wipe them off the face of the earth" ...

It's all a different flavor of the same flawed strategy: escalation. It doesn't work; on the contrary it makes things worse. The fact that you can't empathize with your opponent enough to see that he's trying to do the same thing to you that you're trying to do to him, but you think it will work for you while not working for him, is pretty ridiculous.

Motorists don't typically leave their place of origin hell-bent blowing up a bus load of school kids.

Neither to typical Muslims, typically, that's the point of this little thing we call "analogy'

[dcmacdaddy]

FAE = Fuel-Air Explosives

Shaddim is suggesting we regularly drop Napalm (or its current equivalent) on our Islamic fundamentalist enemies. I wonder if when he said "Find all the radical/militant factions and liquidate them all" he meant the Christian, Jewish, Hindu, and Buddhist "radical/militant factions" as well?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Fast Acting Enema?

You really think that's going to stop them (whatever it is)? If they did that to you, would that make you stop antagonizing them, or would it encourage you to escalate? Keep in mind that by your metric, they outnumber you (Muslims vs Americans).

Just listen to yourself... "they put one of ours in the hospital, we put one of theirs in the morgue" ... "they blaspheme against us, we suicide bomb against them" ... "they suicide bomb against us, we wipe them off the face of the earth" ...

Yup, it's time to just rub them out, my patience is gone, long gone. Time for a sustained bombing campaign of whatever arms will work. Not to make them acquiesce, but to destroy them utterly.

Neither to typical Muslims, typically, that's the point of this little thing we call "analogy'

Then they need to work harder to remove these elements themselves, police themselves effectively, or we completely open up on them.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

FAE = Fuel-Air Explosives

Shaddim is suggesting we regularly drop Napalm (or its current equivalent) on our Islamic fundamentalist enemies. I wonder if when he said "Find all the radical/militant factions and liquidate them all" he meant the Christian, Jewish, Hindu, and Buddhist "radical/militant factions" as well?

FAE are much more humane. A population is there on second, then the next it's vaporized. It's like a nuke but without radiation. And, yes, any group that will encourage, or turn a blind eye towards, suicide bombings doesn't deserve to continue living on this world. Right now, that's largely the extreme Islamic groups, but many more "mainstream" Muslims just don't see it as their problem. Well, we need to make it their problem.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

And, yes, any group that will encourage, or turn a blind eye towards, suicide bombings doesn't deserve to continue living on this world. Right now, that's largely the extreme Islamic groups, but many more "mainstream" Muslims just don't see it as their problem. Well, we need to make it their problem.

But the rest of us are supposed to turn a blind eye on your violence? Are we "mainstream" Americans supposed to see you as our problem, or not? Well, apparently the Muslim extremists are trying to make you our problem. Maybe if they just Fast Acting Enema your ass, suddenly America will see the error of their ways

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

But the rest of us are supposed to turn a blind eye on your violence? Are we "mainstream" Americans supposed to see you as our problem, or not? Well, apparently the Muslim extremists are trying to make you our problem. Maybe if they just Fast Acting Enema your ass, suddenly America will see the error of their ways

That's the bottom line, they fix their shit or we perform some large-scale urban renewal. If my opinions are too harsh for you, there's the door.

BTW, you can come and try to do something about me anytime you like, I'll be waiting.

[hyteckit]

Christians don't issue "death threats".

Christians only pray for others to die.

You know, like praying for the death of Pres. Obama.
Praying for the death of doctors who perform abortions.
Praying for the death/destruction of a state of city because they are gay friendly or too liberal.
Praying for the death of gay people.
Praying for the death of politicians who pass the health-care bill.

You see, Christians don't issue death threats. Christian Death Squads. Organize death prayers.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Yeah, we need a lecture in maturity from a guy who replaces the "O" in the president's last name with a "0".

Disrespect of your inept savior is the reason for the ZERO. it seems you are the immature one who can't get past the '0'. Sounds like a broken record or a shallow mind.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Great flame bait, Old Man. Try to stay on topic.

That's comedy gold. You're attempting to start a thread bashing all Muslims, using a few terrorists as an example of the entire religion (no doubt because of your religious beliefs), and when it's pointed out, you accuse me of flaming.

You can't see the forest for the trees.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

That's the bottom line, they fix their shit or we perform some large-scale urban renewal. If my opinions are too harsh for you, there's the door.

BTW, you can come and try to do something about me anytime you like, I'll be waiting.

Ah, you don't get it. You think the general Muslim population is responsible for getting their fringe elements under control. Uncle Skeleton is wondering if Mainstream Americans are responsible for getting America's fringe elements (ie: those who think it's a good idea to bomb an entire population just to get at the fringe elements).

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

FAE are much more humane. A population is there on second, then the next it's vaporized. It's like a nuke but without radiation. And, yes, any group that will encourage, or turn a blind eye towards, suicide bombings doesn't deserve to continue living on this world. Right now, that's largely the extreme Islamic groups, but many more "mainstream" Muslims just don't see it as their problem. Well, we need to make it their problem.

I wish you could realize the beautiful irony of calling on America to use terrorism as a means to fight terrorism.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Disrespect of your inept savior is the reason for the ZERO. it seems you are the immature one who can't get past the '0'. Sounds like a broken record or a shallow mind.

Why don't you use justifiable and provable intellectual arguments to prove that Obama is inept rather than just insisting that he is with more rhetoric and forcing zeros down our throats?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Disrespect of your inept savior is the reason for the ZERO.

He's not my "savior" as much as you wish that were the case.

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

it seems you are the immature one who can't get past the '0'.

Good one. "I'm not immature, you are!" Except I'm not the one using childish tactics and is so insecure I need to "disrespect" someone who will never know he was disrespected.

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Sounds like a broken record or a shallow mind.

Are we talking about you or me? Your crusade for "disrespect" is pretty shallow.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

He's not my "savior" as much as you wish that were the case.

Good one. "I'm not immature, you are!" Except I'm not the one using childish tactics and is so insecure I need to "disrespect" someone who will never know he was disrespected.

Are we talking about you or me? Your crusade for "disrespect" is pretty shallow.

Pointless as usual.

[BadKosh]

Censorship of South Park by comedy central? Hmmmm. I wonder if they got a call from the secret muslim president or his staff? Suddenly, the media isn't using that word 'muslim' . Looks like intimidation to me.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Pointless as usual.

You're talking about the "0" again, right? Because otherwise, you responded to this "pointless" stuff earlier. Guess you're all out of a good defense to your pointless actions.

[BadKosh]

As long as that zero keeps your short in a knot, you prove my point.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

As long as that zero keeps your short in a knot, you prove my point.

That extreme idiocy infuriates me?

I also thought people who referred to Bush as "Shrub" were blithering morons. And there were plenty of them on here.

[Big Mac]

So Revolution Muslim issued a statement to the press that their previous rant against Parker and Stone wasn't a threat but at most a "prediction." And they live in this country. Great stuff.

At least Jon Stewart had a fairly strong response in support of South Park on last night's show. . .

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I wish you could realize the beautiful irony of calling on America to use terrorism as a means to fight terrorism.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Disrespect of your inept savior is the reason for the ZERO. it seems you are the immature one who can't get past the '0'. Sounds like a broken record or a shallow mind.

I find the fact that you considering yourself some sort of intellectual giant whose opinions actually matter hilarious.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Originally Posted by Dictionary.com

ter·ror·ism: the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

Nope, pretty sure I got it right. Bombing a civilian population because you don't like the behavior of their fringe elements would be "using violence and threats to intimidate or coerce" the civilian population for your political purposes.

Also, I don't think you've put much thought into setting the precedent of holding an entire population responsible for the actions of a handful of it's members.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Nope, pretty sure I got it right. Bombing a civilian population because you don't like the behavior of their fringe elements would be "using violence and threats to intimidate or coerce" the civilian population for your political purposes.

Also, I don't think you've put much thought into setting the precedent of holding an entire population responsible for the actions of a handful of it's members.

Yeah, I suppose every act of war is terrorism. He's a clue, if you kill a few to incite or suppress the rest, that's terrorism. If you bomb the hell out of a place for attacking your people (or endorsing said attacks), that's war. I'm not talking about threats, I'm talking about destruction.

It isn't a "handful". The majority of the populations of these countries are quite pleased with terrorist attacks against the West, they get downright jovial; dragging the bodies through the streets, cheering, burning pictures, etc.. Well, it'll end at some point, we (or Israel) will reach our fill of it, and there will be a lot less Islamic militants around to extol the virtues of their beliefs.

[besson3c]

Of course, countering violence with more violence has always been a successful solution over the course of history.

How about simply convincing people that their ideas are backwards and do not belong in this century, replacing their backwards ideas with new ones?