|
|
The upcoming Gulftown/Westmere Mac Pro (Page 2)
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by P
And drivers. Apparently nVidia is making them themselves again.
That's the "stability" bit. And optimizing for stability over squeezing every last fps out.
Originally Posted by Veltliner
What I am astonished that for the Mac there is only one Quadro available - an absolute high end card with 1,5 GB video RAM and it costs around $1650.
There's a long history of graphics professionals on Macs being relegated to gaming cards, so the ISVs have come to support them; there's also a lot fewer ISVs due to the lack of serious engineering and similar apps. What's the point in a $100 or $400 Quadro for Mac?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by Veltliner
Dual four core as an entry level Mac Pro, and not a single 6-core. Sounds like a good idea.
It actually sounds like a very expensive idea. IOW most likely not going to happen.
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Status:
Offline
|
|
Mac Pro: The $2500 computer with a $250 CPU.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
The Mac Pro is all about revenue. And it has never been as clear as with the current generation. The highest entry-level price since the MP's introduction coupled with the cheapest Xeon (W3520) Apple has ever used.
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mac Elite
Join Date: Aug 2003
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by Simon
The Mac Pro is all about revenue. And it has never been as clear as with the current generation. The highest entry-level price since the MP's introduction coupled with the cheapest Xeon (W3520) Apple has ever used.
Sux 2 be us.
|
blabba5555555555555555555555555555555555555
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: here
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by Simon
It actually sounds like a very expensive idea. IOW most likely not going to happen.
The 4-cores can't be that expensive.
Is it the dual-processor architecture that makes it so expensive?
I just don't want to see another Mac Snail as the entry level Mac Pro.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
A single low-clocked 4-core Gainestown is not expensive. In fact it's the least expensive type of CPU Apple has so far used in the MP. OTOH two of them, especially at higher clock rates are significantly more expensive than a single 6-core Gulftown is expected to be. Add to that that in principle the single-CPU board can be produced for less than the dual-CPU board. That is if Apple actually choses to make two separate boards. In the past they have gone both ways.
Regarding the Mac Snail, it depends where Apple is going. Clearly the last generation had horrible price-performance on the low-end. Apple can do basically three things now:
- keep the price-performance structure the way it is
- leave the prices, but increase low-end performance
- drop low-end prices to match performance better
I have trouble being optimistic here because I know that since its inception the MP has become more and more expensive. It's true that the performance has also been raised more than accordingly, but so has the iMac's - especially with Lynnfield. It's difficult to make a MP that shows vastly better performance than the iMac for $2k. OTOH it seems Steve has no interest in making a MP that roughly matches the high-end iMac on performance in order to make it more affordable. And if everything about the MP hast to be high end, the price will reflect that. Bummer if you're more interested in the case/expansion than in the CPU/clock. For those people, the MP will remain horribly expensive.
(
Last edited by Simon; Jan 17, 2010 at 03:44 AM.
)
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status:
Offline
|
|
To use to sockets on the same motherboard, you need a CPU that supports that natively. With Nehalem, that means having 2 QPI links - one to the other CPU and one to the Northbridge. This means the Xeon 5500 series (codenamed Gainestown). If you're happy with one socket, you can skip that second QPI link. This means the Xeon 3500 series (Bloomfield) - basically the desktop Core i7-900 series except with support for ECC RAM. Intel is very open with it's prices - here's the current price list. Straight comparisons aren't possible, as lower clocked 5500 models are quite cheap, from $188 if you're happy with 1.83 GHz. They soon rise, however, and when you hit 2.66 GHz they cost $958 each. Meanwhile, the single socket 3500 Xeons start at 2.66 GHz with a price of $284. There's also the Xeon 3400 series - Lynnfield, same as in the iMac - that starts even lower. My guess is that the low-end 5500 series CPUs are for those that prefer massive amounts of memory to raw computing power. Possibly it's meant for HPC users. In any case, it seems rather silly to use it when Apple doesn't even put in all the RAM sockets that it can on the current models.
What Intel will do with Gulftown is anyone's guess at this point. They will sell it as Core i7-980X, an extreme edition chip, so there won't be a any cheap desktop models. My guess is that the Xeon 5600 series (Xeon Gulftown) will not have a low priced version, and instead be phased in at the top of the current 5500 range as some sort of bridge towards Beckton. We'll probably see two of them in an MP, but it will be almost irrelevantly expensive. No word on if there will even be a Xeon 3600 (single-chip Gulftown with ECC). That chip might useful to Apple, to distinguish it from the iMac, but more than anything else they need to fit two more RAM slots on that model. And drop the price, but I seem to have mentioned that before...
|
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mac Elite
Join Date: Aug 2003
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by Simon
Bummer if you're more interested in the case/expansion than in the CPU/clock. For those people, the MP will remain horribly expensive.
Agreed. My work requires multiple monitors/screen space and storage... and not so much cpu power or video performance. Sux.
|
blabba5555555555555555555555555555555555555
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
(
Last edited by Simon; Feb 2, 2010 at 01:30 PM.
)
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Status:
Offline
|
|
Perhaps Apple will get the Xeon 5600s early... although as EVGA demonstrated you can do dual socket systems with i7.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
When it comes to Xeons, Intel loves Apple.
Apple was the first to get Clovertown. Apple was the first to get Gainestown. Good chance we'll now see Apple be the first to get Golftown.
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by mduell
although as EVGA demonstrated you can do dual socket systems with i7.
Link?
|
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
IMHO the moniker is quite irrelevant. If Apple goes for dual sockets they'll likely use Xeon 5600 series Gulftown. If they go single socket they might use Core i7-980X Gulftown instead, but they could also go Xeon. It doesn't really matter. In the end it's the same Gulftown/Westmere cores.
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status:
Offline
|
|
The other difference between Core i7 and Xeon is support for ECC memory.
|
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
Apple's present Xeon box can also run on non-ECC. As long as you don't mix you're fine either way.
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by Simon
When it comes to Xeons, Intel loves Apple.
Apple was the first to get Clovertown. Apple was the first to get Gainestown. Good chance we'll now see Apple be the first to get G ulftown.
If only they could be so prompt with the laptop chips.
Originally Posted by P
Link?
http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/01/...dual-cpu-mode/
(
Last edited by mduell; Feb 3, 2010 at 08:57 PM.
)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by mduell
If only they could be so prompt with the laptop chips.
That's an entirely different ball game. If Intel can deliver a small amount of a brand new high-end Xeon that's probably just sufficient to satisfy Apple's demand. OTOH in the mobile market where Apple ships huge volumes of MBPs, a low-volume shipment of CPUs from a production ramp-up won't do. So I'm not surprised Apple can't beat everybody else with mobile CPUs. OTOH why the chose to wait longer than a lot of other companies in some cases (like now) is not explained by that.
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by Simon
HardMac suspects Apple will also take the opportunity to modify the case with a SSD bay. I'm not so sure about that one.
It'd probably be easier to include a 10¢ bracket.
|
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
More HardMac speculation on the launch of the new Gulftown/Westmere Mac Pro.
Core i7-980X and the Xeon variant are expected to be in very limited supply. Intel will continue to ship Gainestown/Nehalem alongside the new variants and intend them to co-exist similar to Woodcrest and Clovertown back in the day. HardMac is speculating we might see quad or octo MPs at the bottom and 6 or 12 core MPs at the top end.
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status:
Offline
|
|
Why will Gulftown be in very limited supply? It's going to be smaller than Bloomfield, Lynnfield and Gainestown, after all. Is the 32nm process that immature?
|
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
Gulftown is the first Westmere. And Westmere is a new process. No surprise supply will be tight. Plenty of other manufacturers are stuck trying to get decent yield around 40-45nm.
(
Last edited by Simon; Feb 12, 2010 at 11:10 AM.
)
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status:
Offline
|
|
Except it isn't the first Westmere - Clarkdale is. It's been out a few months - usually enough to shake things down. Sure 32nm is cutting edge, but so was 45nm for Penryn, and that worked out.
|
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Status:
Offline
|
|
Intel is pumping out 32nm Westmere-2C parts; they're already in the consumer volume markets.
Westmere-6C is a lot bigger chip so defects really hurt yield.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Yamanashi, Japan
Status:
Offline
|
|
Lets hope they also refresh the Macbook Pro line. It's been 280 days since their last Macbook Update. Way too long in this market. They could use some fresh processors, graphics card bump, and some overall improved specs.
Not that I'm silently waiting or anything...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
It wouldn't surprise me if the MP and MBP were updated the same day. Whatever it takes to prevent distraction from the GodPad launch.
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status:
Offline
|
|
Note that the bigger L3 cache means that L3 cache latency, and with it main memory latency, has gone up a bit. Still, all in all it's 50% more cores at more or less the same price and TDP.
|
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Edmonton, AB
Status:
Offline
|
|
Of course with a larger cache memory doesn't have to be accessed as often.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status:
Offline
|
|
Compared to having 8 megs on a Gulftown, sure. Compared to Bloomfield/Gainestown, no. The cache was increased to make sure that each core can still use 2 megs of its own. I'm sure the tradeoff makes sense for Gulftown, but it's worth noting that code that will not use all 6 cores is going to be minutely slower.
|
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
Mac head: Is everything about the iPad now? The wait for the new MBP and MP has me worried. Will there ever be an update?
Steve: Don't worry.
Supposedly a true story.
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status:
Offline
|
|
I almost wanna email Steve and see if I can get a funny one liner response from him.
|
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by olePigeon
I almost wanna email Steve and see if I can get a funny one liner response from him.
Hehe. Keep us posted.
You have to wonder though, of the hundreds of emails like that he gets every day how does he chose which ones to reply to?
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
So we've almost reached May and still no Westmere Mac Pro.
There have been rumors that Intel "launched" Gulftown/Westmere in order to pre-empt AMD's hexacore, but that they're not actually shipping in volume until summer. That would explain why there have been no signs from Apple. And incidentally that would go rather well with the rumors that Apple plans not to update the MP before June.
Does anybody want to bet on the price of the new low-end MP? Does anybody here believe they'll launch a more modest model around $1999? Or is there consensus that they'll remain north of $2500 for the entire Mac Pro line?
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Truckee, CA
Status:
Offline
|
|
The current bottom not-inexpensive end of the MP has been an unacceptable purchase at its price point. I hope that other buyers realized that and that sales suffered greatly, and that Apple rectifies that situation in the next gen.
However I do not subscribe to the position that Apple should go after the low end (e.g. $1500); I do think that $1999 for entry level would be very appropriate so long as expansion (e.g. RAM like the Quad) is not grossly constrained. With the current price of components $2500 entry level is too high. The MP box itself is beautiful so hopefully they do not have to invest in case changes.
I for one can live without the very fastest very most expensive processor config but RAM slots are a necessity.
-Allen
(
Last edited by SierraDragon; May 4, 2010 at 03:01 PM.
)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Arizona
Status:
Offline
|
|
Remember when Apple abandoned PowerPC under the guise of avoiding further periods of stagnation in their desktop lineup? Anybody wanna argue that the Mac Pro has advanced further in its 3 years of life than the G5 did in its 3 years?
Truly laughable. It seems Apple is intentionally trying to scare off the pro user base that kept the platform afloat through its dark ages.
|
I like chicken
I like liver
Meow Mix, Meow Mix
Please de-liv-er
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maryland
Status:
Offline
|
|
Its unfortunate that the Mac Pro lacks the "cutting edge" factor its pricepoint demands, and was promised.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by Lateralus
Truly laughable. It seems Apple is intentionally trying to scare off the pro user base that kept the platform afloat through its dark ages.
Steve has been flicking pros off ever since he realized it's much more trendy to sell fancy gadgets and content.
(
Last edited by Simon; May 5, 2010 at 02:08 PM.
)
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by Simon
There have been rumors that Intel "launched" Gulftown/Westmere in order to pre-empt AMD's hexacore, but that they're not actually shipping in volume until summer. That would explain why there have been no signs from Apple. And incidentally that would go rather well with the rumors that Apple plans not to update the MP before June.
This just in:
"Intel informed its distribution networks that the 6 core Xeon will only be available in limited quantity until at the end of the second quarter."
Hardmac.com : Le "Macbidouille" in English - No 6 core Xeons in quantity before the end of the second quarter
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status:
Offline
|
|
That might be due to the fact that Apple's getting them all until then.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot
That might be due to the fact that Apple's getting them all until then.
Here's hoping.
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Truckee, CA
Status:
Offline
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Status:
Offline
|
|
We wait. I'm nursing my dying G5 along a little more.
I'm hoping for a Pro but if I have to get a Corei7 iMac I will. The price of the Mac Pros is unreal for what you get.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
Status:
Offline
|
|
Originally Posted by Todd Madson
We wait. I'm nursing my dying G5 along a little more.
I'm hoping for a Pro but if I have to get a Corei7 iMac I will. The price of the Mac Pros is unreal for what you get.
Indeed. Personally, I'm most anxious about the updated pricing. In terms of spec we have a fairly good idea of what we'll see. But I'm curious if Apple is going to keep pricing them the way they have in recent updates or if they will offer something around $2k. Asking for more than $1999 for the current low-end MP is outright ludicrous.
|
•
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Arizona
Status:
Offline
|
|
There's a certain humor to this - consider how many world crises have occurred since Apple last updated the Mac Pro.
433 days and counting...
|
I like chicken
I like liver
Meow Mix, Meow Mix
Please de-liv-er
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Rules
|
|
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|