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SUV Talk; Also, Persian Rugs (Page 8)
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
That was snippy and snide? Are people here such delicate flowers? I think you're a bit divorced from reality. How does "arrives" not mean "arrives here", within the context of what I was saying? "It's been on sale since 2009..." Not here, not anywhere in N America, a quick Google search reveals that. This isn't about a language barrier, he and I are both speak Americanized English as our native tongue.
Sigh. I can't believe I have to lay this out for you.
One (simple) question for you to answer: is the Volkswagen Scirocco available in the US? Not the R model - just the Scirocco car? Please answer in simple form. Thanks.
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I won't claim his original post was snark free, but holy shit this place would be different if that was the level where snark shaming kicked for everybody else.
When did we start pretending we were that polite?
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I`m certainly not. I`m full of snark. I love snark. My issue stems from somebody being accused of trolling and saying something that he clearly did not.
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I think it falls under the general guideline, "if you're gonna be ass, be a correct ass."
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Originally Posted by subego
They're both correct.
I'll disagree. As shortcut points out, Shaddim can only come to that conclusion with an incredibly narrow reading.
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In attempt to make myself even less popular around here, I'm going to side with Shaddim.
Originally Posted by imitchellg5
People whined and cried for a Scirocco replacement, and now that we have it, nobody buys it.
I totally took "we" to mean "Americans" (because why wouldn't we be talking about America, and Freedom, and Liberty, and Bacon?), so I got your back, Cap'n.
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Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
Sigh. I can't believe I have to lay this out for you.
I'm all ears.
One (simple) question for you to answer: is the Volkswagen Scirocco available in the US? Not the R model - just the Scirocco car?
Nope, it isn't available in North America, at all.
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
I'll disagree. As shortcut points out, Shaddim can only come to that conclusion with an incredibly narrow reading.
How in the hell is that reading narrow? The car (the VW Scirocco) is in no way, available for purchase in North America. Hell, I'd probably buy even a base model of it, if I could, because I think it looks snazzy (I have a major boner for hot hatches) and there are metric ****-tons of tuning options available for VWs.
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
I'll disagree. As shortcut points out, Shaddim can only come to that conclusion with an incredibly narrow reading.
I'm an American. I read narrow.
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The simple way to sort this, is to find out what context iMitchell meant by "we have it". Is iMitchell in the US? If not, then his statement is entirely correct, and Cap'n assumed he meant North America erroneously. If so, (his location says Seattle, but that doesn't always mean anything) then he should have clarified Europe.
Ok, no big?
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
How in the hell is that reading narrow?
Assuming that a global car company that released a car had to be referring to US market only.
Unless, of course, mitchell meant Americans specifically when he said "People whined and cried". But that seems unlikely when it was followed by 'nobody buys it'. He must be talking about the markets in which it was released, unless he's an idiot.
Originally Posted by subego
I'm an American. I read narrow.
Yes, its part of our problem.
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Originally Posted by andi*pandi
Ok, no big?
This controversy wouldn't fit in the back of subego's not-kangoo
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Originally Posted by Laminar
In attempt to make myself even less popular around here, I'm going to side with Shaddim.
I totally took "we" to mean "Americans" (because why wouldn't we be talking about America, and Freedom, and Liberty, and Bacon?), so I got your back, Cap'n.
Especially since iMitchell lives in the U.S.
So yes, Shaddim has a point.
-t
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Dakar, thank you for bringing this back on-topic: discussing Subego's dubious purchasing decisions.
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Can we just agree that subego sucks at SUVs ? That way, we can continue with the bashing and contentiousness.
-t
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
How in the hell is that reading narrow? The car (the VW Scirocco) is in no way, available for purchase in North America. Hell, I'd probably buy even a base model of it, if I could, because I think it looks snazzy (I have a major boner for hot hatches) and there are metric ****-tons of tuning options available for VWs.
Exactly. It isn't available here at all. So:
Originally Posted by Laminar
I totally took "we" to mean "Americans" (because why wouldn't we be talking about America, and Freedom, and Liberty, and Bacon?), so I got your back, Cap'n.
This reading cannot be correct; "now that we have it" cannot mean "Americans", because Americans do not have it.
By definition, imitchell's statement "we" could only refer to areas where the new Scirocco has actually been released:
Originally Posted by imitchellg5
People whined and cried for a Scirocco replacement, and now that we have it, nobody buys it.
Any other reading, such as Laminar`s, would be to suggest that imitchell is saying "people whined and cried for a Scirocco replacement, and now that it is available in other overseas markets, I still do not see anyone in the US buying it." Which simply makes no sense to the argument at hand (namely, subego's question as to why the Karmann Ghia had never been rebooted).
Furthermore, Cap'n Tightpants' response did not address the availability of the car "in North America"; it addressed only the availability of the R:
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
Wake me when the actual Scirocco (the R variant with the 275hp engine] arrives.
Tightpants did not say something like "wake me when the Scirocco arrives, specifically the R"; that would have indeed implied from the get-go that he meant "in North America" - because the car being referenced by imitchell is not available here at all. His response did not dispute imitchell's initial statement that "we have" the Scirocco - he was just looking for a specific sport model. Which as imitchell then pointed out, has also arrived in the same manner as the Scirocco he had previously referenced.
To then go back and say, as Tightpants then did:
Originally Posted by Tightpants
since he was the one who kept implying it's available in the US when it clearly isn't. So, either he was ignorant (perhaps, though unlikely) or trolling (boo)
...is totally and completely false based on a careful reading of the text.
Fellows...I am the wrong person to debate careful readings with. Sorry.
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Can't we just go back to complaining about how SUVs are slow, get bad gas mileage, and tip over?
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Originally Posted by Laminar
Can't we just go back to complaining about how SUVs are slow, get bad gas mileage, and tip over?
Yeah, now that you're wrong you say that!!1
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Assuming that a global car company that released a car had to be referring to US market only.
Unless, of course, mitchell meant Americans specifically when he said "People whined and cried". But that seems unlikely when it was followed by 'nobody buys it'. He must be talking about the markets in which it was released, unless he's an idiot.
VW Group is not a global company, not completely, we (North America) traditionally get far fewer models of cars than Europe (and even Oz and Asia, now), due to federal regs. So when a hot, limited edition car makes its way over here it's a big deal and usually sells like meth-dipped pancakes (ex. the Fiat 500 Abarth and Alfa Romeo 4C). It was a really big deal recently when Ford announced the One Ford initiative, meaning all models are being consolidated and made available worldwide. No other major carmaker has ever done that, at least not in the modern era.
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Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
Exactly. It isn't available here at all. So:
This reading cannot be correct; "now that we have it" cannot mean "Americans", because Americans do not have it.
By definition, imitchell's statement "we" could only refer to areas where the new Scirocco has actually been released:
Any other reading, such as Laminar`s, would be to suggest that imitchell is saying "people whined and cried for a Scirocco replacement, and now that it is available in other overseas markets, I still do not see anyone in the US buying it." Which simply makes no sense to the argument at hand (namely, subego's question as to why the Karmann Ghia had never been rebooted).
Furthermore, Cap'n Tightpants' response did not address the availability of the car "in North America"; it addressed only the availability of the R:
Tightpants did not say something like "wake me when the Scirocco arrives, specifically the R"; that would have indeed implied from the get-go that he meant "in North America" - because the car being referenced by imitchell is not available here at all. His response did not dispute imitchell's initial statement that "we have" the Scirocco - he was just looking for a specific sport model. Which as imitchell then pointed out, has also arrived in the same manner as the Scirocco he had previously referenced.
To then go back and say, as Tightpants then did:
...is totally and completely false based on a careful reading of the text.
Fellows...I am the wrong person to debate careful readings with. Sorry.
Talk about a narrow reading. I rest my case.
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Yeah, now that you're wrong you say that!!1
He isn't wrong, you and StM are quite obviously brain damaged.
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
Talk about a narrow reading. I rest my case.
Honestly, I do not consider my explanation a narrow reading at all. I consider that the only possible reading one could make if they had followed the conversation. Any other conclusion would be in my opinion the result of careless and/or sloppy reading.
Of course I interpret words for a living. So there ya go.
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Now that we've properly rounded back to subego's vantruck thing: did we ever get a longer-term review? Is it holding up? Is it worth not using the local highway? Do you feel embarrassed in polite company when everyone is talking about their vehicles and someone says "so subego, how's that awesome X5 holding up?"
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
VW Group is not a global company, not completely
Ah, a semantic response disregarding the meat of my post.
(
Last edited by The Final Dakar; Jun 11, 2015 at 11:34 AM.
Reason: I forgot add a word, rendering the post completely idiotic)
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Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
Honestly, I do not consider my explanation a narrow reading at all. I consider that the only possible reading one could make if they had followed the conversation. Any other conclusion would be in my opinion the result of careless and/or sloppy reading.
Of course I interpret words for a living. So there ya go.
The amount of logical gymnastics involved in coming to your conclusion is extraordinarily impressive.
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Ah, a semantic response the meat of my post.
If their products, by their own planning, are only available in certain regions, then it's difficult to consider them to be a global company. I was just pointing out that your reasoning falls flat, right out of the gate.
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
If their products, by their own planning, are only available in certain regions, then it's difficult to consider them to be a global company.
You forgot to add your "DA" tag here, because this makes no sense.
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Originally Posted by Laminar
You forgot to add your "DA" tag here, because this makes no sense.
Traitor!
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I'm not sure how a company can be "global" when they limit distribution of their product to only one hemisphere, but okay.
and the DL is that DA is for the PL, OK?
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
The amount of logical gymnastics involved in coming to your conclusion is extraordinarily impressive.
It really is not. I would consider it fairly basic and straightforward reading comprehension. On the other hand, the example of the FedEx man that you provided is so illogically connected to the actual fact scenario that I am having trouble comprehending why a highly educated person such as yourself could possibly think it serves as a proper analogy.
So I suspect we will likely not come to an agreement on why you accused imitchellg5 of repeatedly implying that the Scirocco was available in the US - which he did not - or of being a troll - he was not.
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
I'm not sure how a company can be "global" when they limit distribution of their product to only one hemisphere, but okay.
They limit distribution of their cars to one hemisphere?
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
They limit distribution of their cars to one hemisphere?
about half of their models have never made it across the Atlantic from Europe.
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Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
It really is not. I would consider it fairly basic and straightforward reading comprehension. On the other hand, the example of the FedEx man that you provided is so illogically connected to the actual fact scenario that I am having trouble comprehending why a highly educated person such as yourself could possibly think it serves as a proper analogy.
Given the huge disparity in our philosophical views, it doesn't at all surprise me that we see each other in the same light. The difference is, I fully comprehend your position, but simply don't agree with it.
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
about half of their models have never made it across the Atlantic from Europe.
This is what I'm talking about when I say "narrow" view. Being a global company doesn't mean all your products anywhere. Your definition is.... unique.
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
This is what I'm talking about when I say "narrow" view. Being a global company doesn't mean all your products anywhere. Your definition is.... unique.
I would agree with you, if it was only a model or two being withheld every now and then, but that's not the case. Why they choose to pointedly ignore the 2nd largest car market in the world is a real puzzler.
Market penetration:
At times it appears that they don't give a s*** about making money.
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
Given the huge disparity in our philosophical views, it doesn't at all surprise me that we see each other in the same light. The difference is, I fully comprehend your position, but simply don't agree with it.
Perhaps you have gotten to the root of the problem. I am surprised you feel there is a huge disparity in our philosophical views, as to my knowledge a) I am not sure I have ever discussed them to much extent on MacNN, and b) to the limited extent that I have, I would have concluded that they were not much different than yours, at least with respect to many popular MacNN subjects. I would be very interested to hear your evaluation of my philosophical views to be honest.
Perhaps more importantly, I really do not see how my philosophical views would in any way significantly impact what I feel is a rather straightforward reading of the plain language used in your discussion.
I provided my clear interpretation of the specific quoted language that was used. You provided analogies that contained critically non-similar fact scenarios, dismissed my conclusions as "narrow" without providing any specific reference to or comment on the language itself, and alluded to unnamed philosophical differences which you suggest without providing specifics would lead us to interpret the language differently.
Again to be clear: I'm a language geek. I draft and interpret language for a living. So I find this sort of thing interesting, although I'm sure others might regard it in low light. Necessary semantics when it forms the basis of disagreement.
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
Why they choose to pointedly ignore the 2nd largest car market in the world is a real puzzler.
It looks like the 2nd largest market in the world isn't interested in them.
---
Back to meat of the subject:
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Unless, of course, mitchell meant Americans specifically when he said "People whined and cried". But that seems unlikely when it was followed by 'nobody buys it'. He must be talking about the markets in which it was released, unless he's an idiot.
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Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
Again to be clear: I'm a language geek. I draft and interpret language for a living. So I find this sort of thing interesting, although I'm sure others might regard it in low light. Necessary semantics when it forms the basis of disagreement.
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Somebody hunt down imitchell and get him to tell what his point was.
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The best part would be that he goes "Oh....I thought the new Scirocco was available here in the States but that, like, nobody bought it."
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Originally Posted by andi*pandi
Somebody hunt down imitchell and get him to tell what his point was.
iMitchell is Shaddim's alt /twist
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Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
Now that we've properly rounded back to subego's vantruck thing: did we ever get a longer-term review? Is it holding up? Is it worth not using the local highway? Do you feel embarrassed in polite company when everyone is talking about their vehicles and someone says "so subego, how's that awesome X5 holding up?"
So far, I'm lovin' the **** out of it. Not even the slightest tinge of regret.
What's surprising is I'm feeling almost no burn from giving up the amenities in the X5. I was worried I had falsely convinced myself I'm no frills. Turns out I am that way. I want terrestrial radio... and that's it. The seats are rougher on my sciatica, but there's nothing I can really do about that, and was expecting it.
While you can't help but notice the 150 missing horses, what they squeezed out of this 4-banger is incredible. 9-speed transmission FTW.
I don't mind, but I need to get used to doing things like turning on my headlights. They thought this out though. Headlights won't run unless the car's running, so I can in theory just always keep them on. Overall, that is the watch-phrase for the van in general: it's well thought out.
As I've mentioned, it smells funky, but at least it's chemical funky and not rotting matter funky.
The truck designation doesn't bother me, though I have a lifetime of skill built up ignoring admonitions for trucks. By far the most irritating thing about it is you need special, vertical market GPS if you want a properly edited set of maps. Buying that doesn't bother me, but lacking the traffic routing features of Waze does.
I'm giving serious thought to "de-trucking" the plates. There's no way a cop thinks this is a truck without specifically knowing. Considering what flies as "not-a-truck", I think the dealer may have made a mistake.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
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Offline
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The polite company response has been "that's adorable... it's so European looking! Can you deliver me milk, now?".
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status:
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You know, looking at this truck designation shit, I'm pretty sure I need to stop at ****ing weigh stations.
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
I would agree with you, if it was only a model or two being withheld every now and then, but that's not the case. Why they choose to pointedly ignore the 2nd largest car market in the world is a real puzzler.
Market penetration:
At times it appears that they don't give a s*** about making money.
They care a lot about making money. The decision is a little more complicated than you may be aware. Certifying cars for the North American markets is very different from certifying them elsewhere - just those freaky airbag setups alone add complexity and cost. Since the Chinese based their ruleset on the European one in many respects, that means that the world is increasingly becoming North America, and Elsewhere. It is not quite that simple (and when I say "based", I don't mean that the Chinese ruleset is the same as the European - they have their own wrinkles) but deciding to focus on the North American market adds complexity and cost. In effect, you have to be certain that you will sell a rather significant number of cars for that to be worth it.
This is further complicated by the cost of exporting cars to the US from Europe forcing them to be more expensive, varying exchange rates (the dollar was weak at launch), the market organization's ideas of "what the US wants" (sedans and SUVs, usually), and competing with yourself. In this case, I suspect that the marketing people figured that the hot hatch market in the US was small, and that they already had one entrant (the GTi), so why compete with yourself?
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The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Traitor!
I take no sides, except that of shit-stirring.
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