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Repeal of Obamacare (Page 12)
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
15 million for the senate version.
According my unnamed anonymous source, most of those are people who were forced to buy insurance under the individual mandate.
Having insurance≠health care.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/s...obamacare.html
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
How does this bill solve that problem?
...
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Clinically Insane
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Originally Posted by andi*pandi
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^excellent
No wonder bills take up eleventy billion pages, with margins like that. Horrible readability! Sad.
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The current bills are ≈ 150 pages, far less the Obamacare bills >1000 pages
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Don't know. Perhaps the best thing is to do nothing and let Obamacare collapse on its own. Then you can start the cry for single payer. You have no worry at this moment. There is enough GOP Senators opposing the bill it won't get to the floor for debate.
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by Chongo
The current bills are ≈ 150 pages, far less the Obamacare bills >1000 pages
Don't know. Perhaps the best thing is to do nothing and let Obamacare collapse on its own. Then you can start the cry for single payer. You have no worry at this moment. There is enough GOP Senators opposing the bill it won't get to the floor for debate.
lol
Here's a crazy thought. Try crafting a bill that's primary focus is fixing the ACA rather than cutting taxes and entitlement spending.
Letting the ACA collapse while you're in power is a bold strategy. Doubly so given this administration has been speeding it along by fighting paying its obligations. You can't blame Obama when you had your chance to repeal and replace and it sucked so bad it failed.
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Games Meister
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Btw, one of the reasons this bill is shorter is it just refers to sections of the ACA it uses without quoting them verbatim. Ignoring the shorter = better is fallacy.
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Here is a crazier idea: have the CBO score Obamacare as of today and compare that to whatever comes out congress so we have a reference point to determine if it is realy better or worse.
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You don't think obamacare has been scrutinized or discussed enough already? At this point, anyone working on the replacement should be able to quote it verbatim and know what they are changing.
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by Chongo
Here is a crazier idea: have the CBO score Obamacare as of today and compare that to whatever comes out congress so we have a reference point to determine if it is realy better or worse.
I am 100% for this idea. Plus a full repeal.
Edit: However this assumes that the CBO is currently scoring against its old ACA estimates rather than current regulations ...which are the ACAs. Is there something I'm missing here?
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Originally Posted by andi*pandi
You don't think obamacare has been scrutinized or discussed enough already? At this point, anyone working on the replacement should be able to quote it verbatim and know what they are changing.
You use Wikipedia, can you quote it verbatim?
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"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
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My boss hasn't asked me to rewrite wikipedia. If they did, I'd be pretty sure to know it and know if what I was writing was an improvement.
Point is, the information is already out there. Dakar has a good question though.
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Games Meister
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Sounds like the vote might be delayed but I'd wait to see what comes of Trump meeting with senators this afternoon.
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by andi*pandi
My boss hasn't asked me to rewrite wikipedia. If they did, I'd be pretty sure to know it and know if what I was writing was an improvement.
Point is, the information is already out there. Dakar has a good question though.
If a Wikipedia entry links to another Wikipedia entry, rather than present the text, that makes the entry shorter but doesn't change the amount of content on the subject.
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Expecting a full ACA replacement in 6 months is absurd, even Repub leadership thought Hillary was going to handily win.
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"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
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Games Meister
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The delay must be real. A bunch of GOP senators suddenly found their voice and are against the bill. I've seen this movie before, though
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Trump at senate GOP meeting (also there's press?)
Insert head exploding image here
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It's been delayed until after the July 4 recess. Activists are hoping Senators will feel pressure from constituents back home during their vacations.
Health care survives for the moment.
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Games Meister
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If they hold town halls. Otherwise things might cool down enough for them to proceed.
Assuming the hold outs aren't posturing I don't see how they make a passable bill. The Paul wing want more killed and the moderates want more coverage. I believe that roughly four votes on each side.
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Originally Posted by reader50
It's been delayed until after the July 4 recess. Activists are hoping Senators will feel pressure from constituents back home during their vacations.
Federally mandated purchase of health insurance survives for the moment.
Fixinated
As many have found out, having ACA insurance is no guarantee of receiving healthcare.
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25 million lost their plans so that 22 million could get poor, overpriced coverage. Great deal that was.
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"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
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Originally Posted by Chongo
Fixinated
As many have found out, having ACA insurance is no guarantee of receiving healthcare.
It'd be nice if there were hard numbers for this. I know the effects have been across broad categories, but it's unclear what percentage of people have what are essentially unusable plans.
Of course it looks like congress is trading plans that are unusable thanks to high deductibles for plans that are unusable because the scope of coverage is so narrow.
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Games Meister
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I should add, does anyone here believe that the current bills proposed adhere to Trumps campaign promises?
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Games Meister
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26% support for senate bill
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CBO says Senate bill cuts Medicaid 35% in 2036 even as older/costlier patients become higher share of beneficiaries
But hey, it's better than the ACA!
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Games Meister
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Trump who advocated simultaneous repeal and replace now advocating repeal now replace later. See conservative senators agreeing. Who knew healthcare could be this hard?
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
I should add, does anyone here believe that the current bills proposed adhere to Trumps campaign promises?
no.
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by Snow-i
no.
I appreciate your weighing in. I guess who I'm curious to hear from is those Trump voters or supporters who want the ACA repealed.
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
I appreciate your weighing in. I guess who I'm curious to hear from is those Trump voters or supporters who want the ACA repealed.
I want the ACA repealed. This bill does not do that.
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Originally Posted by Snow-i
I want the ACA repealed. This bill does not do that.
I was under the impression you were interested in improving the market not just a blanket repeal.
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
I was under the impression you were interested in improving the market not just a blanket repeal.
You are absolutely correct.
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by Snow-i
no.
In retrospect I'm wondering if we weren't thinking of different Trump promises re: healthcare
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Sounds like Murkowski has been bought off so this thing is much more live than previously anticipated
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Games Meister
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So, weird complication: McCain had eye surgery and is recuperating in Arizona for a week. McConnell had to (temporarily) pull the bill since they don't have the votes.
Also, there's some weird shenanigans going on with scoring the Cruz amendment but I'm hoping this delay means they have to eat that shit sandwich as it gives the CBO plenty of time to get that score out.
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Games Meister
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Pence sure lies a lot for a Christian.
And people trying to repeal the ACA sure have to lie a lot about its replacement. Makes you think...
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Games Meister
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This just blew the hell up. My timeline is flooded. Two of the more conservative senators came out against the bill, effectively killing it. Just seeing the McConnell is going with a solo repeal vote to put everyone to the test.
This was an issue earlier today:
The Wisconsin Republican was stunned to read in The Washington Post that McConnell was privately arguing that major reforms to Medicaid were so far in the distance that they would never take effect. Johnson said Monday that he’d confirmed through conversations with other senators that McConnell had made the remarks, which he said now puts a procedural vote on the bill in “jeopardy.”
“The reported comments from Leader McConnell before last Thursday about ‘don’t worry about these Medicaid changes, they won’t take effect,’ that’s troubling to me. I have talked to senators that basically confirmed that. I’ll see what Leader McConnell says tomorrow,” Johnson said on Monday evening. “From my standpoint, it’s a pretty serious breach of trust, those comments. I’m just troubled by those comments.”
In all honesty I think he's playing both sides. He doesn't care what happens either way in the future, as long as it gets done.
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Games Meister
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He's d a good nickname for the entire situation: the Obamacare Maru
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Games Meister
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Well that collapsed quickly
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So much for blaming Trump. ObamaCare collapses on it's own. He can't be blamed for not fixing either.
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by Chongo
So much for blaming Trump. ObamaCare collapses on it's own. He can't be blamed for not fixing either.
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Nice try. Not leading on repeal and replace can be blamed on Trump. Obamacare collapsing under its own weight is all on the Democrats.
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by Chongo
Nice try. Not leading on repeal and replace can be blamed on Trump. Obamacare collapsing under its own weight is all on the Democrats.
I don't see any wiggle room in that tweet.
Regardless, would you say the GOP has done everything possible to fix the situation?
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
I don't see any wiggle room in that tweet.
Regardless, would you say the GOP has done everything possible to fix the situation?
I'll take that as a no.
Anyway Trump talking up repeal and replace again. Says they shouldn't leave town til it's done. I'm sure he'll lead by example.
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It's not their job to fix ObamaCare. They ran on repealing it, not fixing it. This is why there were Senators that said they would vote no. They want full repeal.
Yes, Trump needs to stay in DC.
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I don't know if that's specific enough... does he own a golf course in DC? I'd say he needs to stay in DC and off the golf course.
Repeal without replacement is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by Chongo
It's not their job to fix ObamaCare.
This quote, in isolation is quite something. It's their job to govern. This is not an issue that only hurts Democrats.
They ran on repealing it, not fixing it. This is why there were Senators that said they would vote no. They want full repeal.
You think senators want a full repeal? Have you been paying attention? There's a group of hardliners on the right that want it and a roughly equal amount in the center that want to keep segments that are helping their constituents.
What's more important? Keeping the promise or not hurting your constituents?
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Originally Posted by andi*pandi
I don't know if that's specific enough... does he own a golf course in DC? I'd say he needs to stay in DC and off the golf course.
Repeal without replacement is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
It's a bluff that the GOP can no longer pull. Democrats should take heed because they're going down the same path with this single payer bullshit.
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
It's a bluff that the GOP can no longer pull. Democrats should take heed because they're going down the same path with this single payer bullshit.
I haven't been paying attention to the Democrats at all so pardon me if this is an ignorant question, but why is it bullshit? Isn't there a possibility that there is a significant population that is ready to be done with insurance plans? I have no idea if this population is big enough to make a difference, but what is wrong in stimulating it and pulling all possible ideas on the table? I'm kind of afraid that they are just going to patch up American health care rather blindly, give it a new name, and then we'll be back in the same place a few years later after these experiments fail.
There are ways health care can actually be fixed. It is nowhere near this big a problem in other countries (and I'm not thinking just of Canada).
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
15 million for the senate version.
Straight repeal is 17 million. To give you context on how terrible the convoluted GOP bills are.
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