[NY152]

Great theme bOOzo

[Mac Guru]

Your actions are very dishonerable Unsanity. These themes take weeks, even months to create and to go behind someones back and rip it off because your selfish little self wanted it SO bad you couldn't STAND to let anything get in your way is just dispicable.

Sure you have seen Luna themes for OS X but this is completely dishonerable. Luna was developed by a multi BILLION dollar monopoly that has money to burn. bOOzo probably doesn't even have money CLOSE to that and is just one man. He worked his butt off and is by far one of the best themers in this community and if your kind keep stealing his work, he may just stop making themes. That would NOT be good.

Go build a theme for XP yourself and let us see how creative you REALLY are. My guess is that the main reason your ported it is because you can't make something like it from your own original thoughts.

Mac Guru

[ROFL]

This theme is fantasic. Honestly the best one I've used (and I've used nearly all of them). Seriously, great work. This and smooth stripes (which I believe is also made by you) are my favorites.

[darkcore]

Originally posted by Mac Guru:
<STRONG>Your actions are very dishonerable Unsanity. These themes take weeks, even months to create and to go behind someones back and rip it off because your selfish little self wanted it SO bad you couldn't STAND to let anything get in your way is just dispicable.

Sure you have seen Luna themes for OS X but this is completely dishonerable. Luna was developed by a multi BILLION dollar monopoly that has money to burn. bOOzo probably doesn't even have money CLOSE to that and is just one man. He worked his butt off and is by far one of the best themers in this community and if your kind keep stealing his work, he may just stop making themes. That would NOT be good.

Go build a theme for XP yourself and let us see how creative you REALLY are. My guess is that the main reason your ported it is because you can't make something like it from your own original thoughts.

Mac Guru</STRONG>

you're a moron. read the other posts, get a clue.

[Mac Guru]

I may be a moron to you, but then again we're all entitled to our oppinions. I personally would be extremely outraged if I had spent my precious time developing something just to have it ripped off.

Back off.

[frawgz]

Originally posted by darkcore:
<STRONG>you're a moron. read the other posts, get a clue.</STRONG>

I agree with Guru. What "clue" are you hoping he will get?

Was Unsanity justified in porting bOOzo's theme when bOOzo explicitly denied him permission to do so? He excused himself by saying he ported it for himself, and then weaseled out of taking responsibility for the fact that he released it to others by offloading it onto those who "hagged" him for it. What right does he have? Furthermore, and more importantly, where's the respect?

[train]

Originally posted by Mac Guru:
<STRONG>Your actions are very dishonerable Unsanity. These themes take weeks, even months to create and to go behind someones back and rip it off because your selfish little self wanted it SO bad you couldn't STAND to let anything get in your way is just dispicable.

Sure you have seen Luna themes for OS X but this is completely dishonerable. Luna was developed by a multi BILLION dollar monopoly that has money to burn. bOOzo probably doesn't even have money CLOSE to that and is just one man. He worked his butt off and is by far one of the best themers in this community and if your kind keep stealing his work, he may just stop making themes. That would NOT be good.

Go build a theme for XP yourself and let us see how creative you REALLY are. My guess is that the main reason your ported it is because you can't make something like it from your own original thoughts.

Mac Guru</STRONG>

I agree completely.

People with that kind of attitude are almost always the ones who have never created anything original themselves, and thus don't have any respect for the process or creator.

[darkcore]

Originally posted by Mac Guru:
<STRONG>I may be a moron to you, but then again we're all entitled to our oppinions. I personally would be extremely outraged if I had spent my precious time developing something just to have it ripped off.

Back off.</STRONG>

As long as Unsanity gives b00zo credit for creating the original theme I don't see the problem here. Id personally be flattered if someone wanted to port something I created to another platform.

[ 05-24-2002: Message edited by: darkcore ]

[Mac Guru]

The fact remains that as long as permission was not expressly granted for the porting of the theme, no amount of credit in the whole freaking world will replace the fact that he went behind his back and created the theme and released it KNOWING it would make bOOzo mad.

Direct quotes from the neowin thread that SHOW unsanity's intentions were in NO way honerable.

Bad news
No More Milk

So, lets release it anyway eh? What can they do MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

let me ask you this. if we did release it. what possibly could he do?

It SEEMS as though he had intentions from the beginning to make it no matter what.

Now I don't have time to browse all 400 pages of that thread but from what I have read I have absolutly ZERO respect for Unsanity and his crew.

If you don't like that darkscore... well you can sit on it and twirl.

Mac Guru

[dazzla]

Originally posted by Mac Guru:
<STRONG>I have absolutly ZERO respect for Unsanity and his crew</STRONG>

I don't agree with that, I'm "part of that crew" if you are referring to that thread and the members who posted. I was against this right from the start and condoned it. Perhaps you should take the time to read instead of making the brash generalisation you just made.

[diskobolos]

If I may add a post that isn't related to the pc vs. mac debate... just wanted to say if you're using Mozilla, check out the GrayModern theme (available under the view:apply theme:get new themes menu) it goes very nice with milk. It looks seemless.

[wil]

There are two very separate issues here:
1. copyright protection
2. respect

and one integrating issue:
3. the internet


--------------

1. since themes for OS X are possibly in violation of Apple's end user agreement, and since bOOzo has released his theme to the public (i.e. posted it on the internet where anyone can gain access to it), I don't think that bOOzo has any real protection from people like Unsanity. Xthemination posted my theme after I asked them to hold off. That's their right and that's what I get for posting my theme. However...

2. communities are formed of members who share common interests and abide by common rules. in the case of artistic communities, members hold original creation as sacred. anyone who does not respect a given community's basic tenants doesn't belong

3. online communities are often formed and maintained publicly. this means that anyone can join and/or interfere with online communities that publish indiscriminately. the OS X theme community meets informally here on this OS X Software forum. therefore, not one theme maker has control over who has access or rights to any information posted here. not even the original poster himself

in the case of Unsanity
1. he has a right (albeit a shmarmy right) to port bOOzo's theme
2. he lacks integrity and respect
3. there isn't much anyone here can do about it; however if we start using another, password protected theme-forum , people like Unsanity can be banned from the proceedings and effectively ignored

granted, no one can eliminate the flow of information on the internet, but, given the right environment, we CAN determine who we interact with

[darkcore]

Originally posted by Mac Guru:
<STRONG>The fact remains that as long as permission was not expressly granted for the porting of the theme, no amount of credit in the whole freaking world will replace the fact that he went behind his back and created the theme and released it KNOWING it would make bOOzo mad.

Direct quotes from the neowin thread that SHOW unsanity's intentions were in NO way honerable.



It SEEMS as though he had intentions from the beginning to make it no matter what.

Now I don't have time to browse all 400 pages of that thread but from what I have read I have absolutly ZERO respect for Unsanity and his crew.

If you don't like that darkscore... well you can sit on it and twirl.

Mac Guru</STRONG>

That's darkcore not darkscore. And will you get a damn spell checker, the spelling mistakes hurt my eyes. And by the way I found a picture of you online, http://www.liquid2k.com/scn/8retard.jpg

[Mac Guru]

That's darkcore not darkscore. And will you get a damn spell checker, the spelling mistakes hurt my eyes. And by the way I found a picture of you online, http://www.liquid2k.com/scn/8retard.jpg

The Kid runs out of things to actually DISCUSS and throws in the famous "your spelling is bad" argument. Get a life darkcore. This is the internet. I'm not here to prove to you or anyone else that I am some sore of literary genius, I just type what I have to say and if I happen to mispell something along the way OOPS! My bad.

That was a very lame attempt at a decent rebuttal on your part.

BTW dazzla, I must have missed that part of the thread where you were against it because from what I saw, you Kol and Unsanity were all working on the theme. If I in fact DID miss it, I'm sorry and my comment is retracted in your favor. It still stands though, you've just been excluded from the "crew" in this instance.

communities are formed of members who share common interests and abide by common rules. in the case of artistic communities, members hold original creation as sacred. anyone who does not respect a given community's basic tenants doesn't belong

Right on Wil. An artist puts forth effort and time creating a work. In bOOzo's case, he spent his time creating a theme for the people in this OS X Software Area. Although he doesn't hold ACTUAL copyrights to the graphics he used, it is generally frowned upon in the artistic community to use a persons work to generate something that is a VERY close copy of the original. Granted it's not a complete and exact copy of Milk but it's close enough to make people think it IS Milk and THAT is what's causing the issue. bOOzo didn't want an XP version of Milk or HE would have made one.

Mac Guru

[Mediaman_12]

This entire Theme porting issue is getting out of hand There are XP themes that people have half ported to OSX. Got permission of who they thought did the theme. Then been told to stop by real creator of the XP theme (as seen in this thread)
There are people people doing XP versions of OSX themes without permission.

It all needs a solution.

[Mac Guru]

Easy... Stop porting.

I make a theme for OS X and that's that... if there is a high enough demand and/or I feel the need to make my theme for XP, I do it and vice versa.

If I feel a theme I have made needs to be ported to XP but I don't want to do it myself... I personally find someone who is willing and license them to create the theme for me and vice versa.

It's a very simple solution... the only reason it doesn't happen is selfishness and ego's.

Mac Guru

[dazzla]

Originally posted by Mediaman_12:
<STRONG>This entire Theme porting issue is getting out of hand There are XP themes that people have half ported to OSX. Got permission of who they thought did the theme. Then been told to stop by real creator of the XP theme (as seen in this thread)
There are people people doing XP versions of OSX themes without permission.

It all needs a solution.</STRONG>

Now if you had read that thread properly, you would have realised that I made the Windows XP theme chosenOS, the mix/max/close widgets were designed by someone else who demanded that the OS X theme stopped being made because he wasn't asked.

[chezpaul]

U guys are all dreaming !!!

There's nothing U can do about it, whatever amount of words U post here or anywhere else.
Mac/PC who cares, U got your Milk theme on your computer, U're happy, they port it, does it change your life ?

The only person who can be pissed is bOOzo but then again he made it public for consomption.

If U want to be constructive about all this then find a way to make themes much harder to port and I don't how U'd do that.

I just think U guys are wasting your time...
I actually think U guys like to fight.

;-)

[train]

Although it is true that with the net its inevitable and there isn't much we can do about it, in many cases like this, it IS indeed copyright infringement.

Just as Apple could sue any maker of an Aqua theme, a theme designer like bOOzo could sue for his work, regardless of if the theme is in theme format or just an image mockup of his widgets. It would be hard to justify (and maybe harder to win damages) with a freeware release, but nevertheless his rights are protected. It might be easier to defend those rights if the theme had been shareware or commercial, thus the unauthorized ports could hurt his income from his creation.

Unsanity's case would be even weaker since he can't claim ignorance. He infringed even after being denied permission.

Granted, a lot of themes (maybe this one) infringe on Aqua as well, which makes some cases even stickier. The more original the work, obviously, the better the case.

This subject is like the stealing of music - its inevitable on the net, but its still often copyright infringement and ethically questionable.

[ 05-24-2002: Message edited by: train ]

[chezpaul]

U know what bOOzo, U should make your themes shareware $1 through paypal for example.. Everyone would buy them.. I would without a second thought about it.

[WinsOBoogi]

Oh...well, if this is a flame war, then I think I need to get involved as well.

And I know this situation is pretty much over, but I still need to post what I feel, because I'm sure Max is still pissed as hell at Unsanity.

I'll put the situation in several other terms..maybe people can better understand it if I give different examples, and hopefully one of them will strike a core with you.

I'm a Graphics Designer, a Musician, and a writer.

We all know how this situation fits in the graphics world.

But in the music world, it's like writing a song, and someone else taking your song and getting noteriety for it. It's like...P. Diddy, I guess But seriously...if someone took one of MY songs and copied it without my permission, I'd go nuts. Do you know how dear I hold each of my songs to be?

Then, take writing. I once had a teacher who published an article in a local paper about his life. He gained a lot of noteriety for it locally, and he was really proud of it. Then, someone else took it, and published it in the New York Times as their own piece of writing, and it was published. My teacher was heartbroken.

It doesn't matter if you get credit or you don't. It's YOUR heart and soul in the work..whether it's a song, a writing, or even a graphic. Graphics are still art...if someone tells me what Max is doing now isn't art, I'll be the first one to argue with you, because I'm using Milk right now, and I don't think I'll ever go back to Aqua because of how amazing it is.

And, for Unsanity and his team to go around disrespecting Max like that..with the "what can he do? Muhahaha"...it shows that you're not a) an artist, b) someone who does not respect others, c) a lack of maturity and d) a lack of regard for the feelings of others. Honestly, I've been in Max's situation. If teels like when someone copies off of you, that you've been...raped.

I guess that makes sense as to why you're using Microsoft products.

But, you can't go around with this lack of regard for how people will feel, and then back it by saying that B00zo made a port of XP because people (like myself) requested it. Because Max and many other people have been porting OSes, but still put out the most original and brilliant themes there are..like Milk. So, your arguement of "well, he ported XP, so we can port Milk without his permission anyway" is extremely flawed and unjustified. In another situation, Max was porting a theme, and the author told him to remove it. He immediately complied, and sent out a letter of apology to the public.

If you're an artist, you'll understand where Max is coming from. And, I'm sure Max is still extremely unhappy..and probably agreed to it because he had no other choice, due to your lack fo regard towards the #1 rule of artisty.

And, you know, I'll get frank with you, Unsanity. I think you're a major a-hole for what you did. You must be...what? 14? If you're not, you should be ashamed, because that's how you've acted. Grow up a bit.

I may not post often, but I support my fellow MacNN posters. Especially people like Max who a) love and support the Mac platform and b) spend hours on out producing things for his Mac brotheren, completely free of charge.

Max, I'm sorry this had to happen to you, and most of us are totally there for you. I thank you for the work you've done here, and I hope that this situation doesn't affect your love for what you do.

Anyway, that's all I have to say about that. And i hope that I said everything.

Sincerely,
Brad

[Unsanity]

yall do need to do some darn reading over at that neowin thread read some of max's post too i can care less now i jsut released it cause i was being hasseled but too many assholes if you dont' like it to bad its not your theme its not your stuf so its no your BUIS!

[kmkkid]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by WinsOBoogi:
<strong>And, for Unsanity and his team to go around disrespecting Max like that..with the "what can he do? Muhahaha"...it shows that you're not a) an artist, b) someone who does not respect others, c) a lack of maturity and d) a lack of regard for the feelings of others. Honestly, I've been in Max's situation. If teels like when someone copies off of you, that you've been...raped.

I guess that makes sense as to why you're using Microsoft products.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">May I ask what part anything Microsoft play's in this? (and being ported to an MS product isnt what this is about, it's about copyright in essence.) Stop stereotyping, it's uncalled for and shows what type of person you are. The rest of what you said is good, but stop generalizing and stereotyping, it's really lame.

Chris

[Mac Guru]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"> i jsut released it cause i was being hasseled but too many assholes </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Boy you must have NO free will... someone says "release it!" and you say you have no other option to do so. WEAK man, you are WEAK.

Mac Guru

[bOOzo]

I agreed for them to port it after unsanity released his port without my permission since I rather have good port than a bad. But I'd prefer no port at all..

[Spirit_VW]

So� anybody know where to find that sweet Titanium World desktop pic?

<small>[ 05-27-2002, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: Spirit_VW ]</small>

[DigitalEl]

Good question, Spirit VW. I've been looking for that background with no luck, myself.

In the meantime, thank you, B. Milk is simply the best theme goin'. I tried to switch back to Aqua tonight, thinking I had had enough... But it seemed ugly and awkward.

Long live Milk!

[bOOzo]

I'm about to release Milk 1.1 with improved scrollbars and some bug fixes and I was wondering if any one here is good at 3D apps and could make a background to go with the theme. I've got it pictured but I don't have the tools (don't even know what tool to use..) but if some one could make me one with a flat white landscape and milk pouring down on it I'll include it with the theme as the official desktop picture.

The Titanium world dp can be found <a href="http://idisk.mac.com/dazzla/Public/Earth.jpg" target="_blank">here</a> .