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MikeM32 · May 26, 2002, 12:49 AM

<a href="http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/macwarriors/eoh2k2/3dosx/screenshots.html" target="_blank">http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/macwarriors/eoh2k2/3dosx/screenshots.html</a>

Pretty cool screenshots

here's the whole link

<a href="http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/macwarriors/eoh2k2/3dosx/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/macwarriors/eoh2k2/3dosx/index.html</a>

Mike

nonhuman · May 26, 2002, 12:52 AM

It certainly looks interesting, and I wouldn't mind giving it a try, but I don't know how well it would work. How could you interact with the computer in 3 dimensions? Some new kind of input device?

Footy · May 26, 2002, 01:02 AM

Oh boy! Did you read between the lines? Maybe this will be a bad thing. 3 DOS X

20 years from now this will be the norm.

wataru · May 26, 2002, 01:05 AM

I've played with 3DOSX a bit, and I don't really like it. I don't think it's an improvement over the current Finder at all.

It's interesting, though.

pathogen · May 26, 2002, 01:10 AM

I have to agree that its not a good improvement over the original finder system yet. Navigating to a certain file in 3D is a big chore, especially if you have lots of nested folders that are closed.

Instead of lazy susans, they would have done better to imitate a library, with aisles and shelves and books.

11011001 · May 26, 2002, 01:25 AM

Wow. That is really cool.

I got frustrated with it though, trying to go back to another directory and keep one of them open. But I like that idea, that you can do this.

I don't know how they would do it, but I would have it that when you went command-click you could click through a platter to another platter, this would make it easier to navigate.

If it had this, I think it would be just about perfect. Stick in smart spawning of platter locations, and 3D things to click to move down a platter and keep another open, and perhaps 1 click file opening/directory opening, and it would be kick ass.

It is impressive though, but it crashed on me when I got to deep in a file system so that I was out of the box.

edit: added this: Wow. This has so much potential. I went back to it, and was just messing. But it could support a whole different file hierarcy, like how we have aliases, pointers to other files, this could show that symbolically by having lines running between alias and original?? maybe... but you see where I am going with this. One does not even have to have a hierachy anymore, instead it could be a net. You see the file system pretty much all at once, and as you move around in it, it keeps on spawning pieces of it into view. I mean, it could be so intuitive... quick to navigate. Have areas color coded, or lighted differently, ie system area could be dark and mysterious, music could be cheery... I don't know! Wow!

But ya, a net. Perhpas have it show only directories (from the old terminology), and then when you open one of these it will display its contents. directories no longer reside inside of eachother, instead they are connected together by ropes I guess you could say.

I think this will be my next programming challenge, to make a mock one of these. Of course it can't replace the finder to be used on my computer, because the file system is completely and utterly different.

[ 05-26-2002, 01:36 AM: Message edited by: 11011001 ]

Face Ache · May 26, 2002, 01:32 AM

Going from 2D to 3D only adds complexity.

Mastrap · May 26, 2002, 01:35 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Face Ache:
Going from 2D to 3D only adds complexity.<hr /></blockquote>We tried doing a site navigation in 3D once. It looked great for the first two levels and then just developed into a total quagmire.

Jim Paradise · May 26, 2002, 02:23 AM

Well, while it's not an improvement over the current Finder, it's definitely interesting and I think could be really good if given a few years of development...

For now it's just really fun to use and show off.

RGB · May 26, 2002, 02:48 AM

I found this neat program a few months ago, but that's all it was: neat. The graphics got choppy after a few minutes on my Yosemite, and it doesn't display information about the files ie size, mod. date, etc. Fun to play with though, not to mention a very impressive piece of coding.

ford prefect · May 26, 2002, 03:17 AM

cool that someone could make that. it's kind of like hackers. in hackers, it seemed imposible to find anything, but who knows.

didn't microsoft� try something like this, but it didn't really work out too well for them, as i recall. does anyone have details on this?

MikeM32 · May 26, 2002, 03:19 AM

I really think this is leading into what operating systems will look like in the future. We might even have an OS that has a 3D person that we command (male or female depending upon our preference). A sort of virtual reality "slave" for our own personal use. "I need this file"......."As you wish master".

It's a sign of the things to come Ladies and Gentleman, are you ready?

Mike

theUpsetter · May 26, 2002, 03:26 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ford prefect:
didn't microsoft� try something like this, but it didn't really work out too well for them, as i recall. does anyone have details on this?<hr /></blockquote>I had a video of that on my computer a while back, looked super complicated.

When i tried 3D OS X it gave me a headache in about 3 min. I have motion sickness issues.

Face Ache · May 26, 2002, 03:30 AM

I really don't think it's going to happen. Perhaps "real" 3D will come in if they use it for drop shadows and the like, say... make the desktop look 2" deep and icons really bounce. Multiple desktop overlays with translucency might be possible.

All that animation just requires harder work/longer tasks/more memory (from you).

People complain about the speed of the 2D finder....

ford prefect · May 26, 2002, 04:10 AM

The only thing that would be even resonable is if they had a filing cabinet that you could look in different folders and there could be different folders in there...

oh. wait.

I guess it's good this way.

If I had 50 million physical psd's sitting around my apartement, i'd never get anything done.

On a system like that I'd loose stuff forever just like I lost my favorite pencil. it's one of those translucent brown ones with the clicker on the grip part (kind of tough to hold on to, but you get used to it). You get the eraser so used up you get down to the metal and rip your paper.

and my led breaks all the time cause I write too hard. of if the metal end where the led comes out comes apart and goes into the end of the pencil, it's pretty much done for. i hated that stupid pencil.

why did i always try to load the pencil from the front. it would shave the lead some and get graphite all over everything. and keep breaking the lead anyway. I hate it when you have a short little lead and it's too short to stay out of the pencil, but it's the last peice, so you take it out and try to write with that one little lead.

I hate that. or when people post off topic. I hate that.

Cipher13 · May 26, 2002, 08:09 AM

Eh, it isn't really 3D.

I mean sure, it is technically, but navigation wise, it's still "flat"... if you know what I mean.

Krypton · May 26, 2002, 08:31 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Cipher13:
Eh, it isn't really 3D.

I mean sure, it is technically, but navigation wise, it's still "flat"... if you know what I mean.<hr /></blockquote>I agree - I don't think 3D interfaces will take off until we have super cool (albeit hugely expensive) fantabulous input devices like gloves etc - that will allow you to use xyz planes instead of just the two that a mouse uses.

Cipher13 · May 26, 2002, 09:11 AM

It *could* be done with a mouse, I guess... but only very hap-hazardly.

Anyone who's done 3D modelling knows what I mean.

You do get used to it, but it's not quite natural...

For eg, use right-click-drag to zoom, middle-click-drag to slide, and left-click-drag to rotate... how horrible would that be, especially for beginners... and even then, you need another few buttons. Heh.

You're right... we need truly 3D input devices.

Even if we did have them, though, 3DOSX doesn't allow true 3D interaction.

IUJHJSDHE · May 26, 2002, 09:38 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ford prefect:
cool that someone could make that. it's kind of like hackers<hr /></blockquote>Exactly what I thought!!!

It's cool, but way too far ahead of it's time

scaught · May 26, 2002, 09:45 AM

certainly cool looking, but hardly contributes to productivity or ease of use. yes i said that without even trying it out.

neoapple · May 26, 2002, 11:25 AM

yuck!

OS X is already a compromise between looks and performance. Why futher complicate and slow down something that already works well! Besides a its ugly and counter-intelligent design. I prefer to not feel like I'm in a underwater tornado while I'm trying to find my porn... I mean word documents.

cdhostage · May 26, 2002, 11:56 AM

OS X Finder does NOT work well.

Anwyay, it looks cool. The 3D thing.
You'd need an input device that naviagates the third dimension thoughh.

While you're at it add a couple buttons.

MikeM32 · May 26, 2002, 04:52 PM

I posted this more for amusement than anything else, but like I said, I think future Operating Systems may actually be "3d" similar to this idea. I really don't think the hardware is ready right now for such a system, but in say 5 yrs (maybe sooner) we might have hardware that really is capable of handling something like this.

OSX doesn't run so great as-is on my Beige G3/266 desktop, so I wouldn't even think of trying something like this out (no I didn't actually test drive this, but thought it was cool looking anyway).

I also agree that it would be cool to have true 3d navigation rather than the traditional 2d of a mouse and pointer. Like someone else mentionned something like that would probably require a glove-like interface that would ultimately replace the mouse. The thing is that glove would be a pesky thing to work with assuming a keyboard would still be a necessity (and I don't see how a keyboard wouldn't be). Unless it attached to your wrist leaving your fingers free to type with. I don't see speech-to-text replacing the traditional keyboard because unless you're all alone at your computer with nobody else around there's nothing keeping the software from picking-up other sounds in the vicinity.

Mike

11011001 · May 26, 2002, 10:32 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Cipher13:
It *could* be done with a mouse, I guess... but only very hap-hazardly.

Anyone who's done 3D modelling knows what I mean.

You do get used to it, but it's not quite natural...

For eg, use right-click-drag to zoom, middle-click-drag to slide, and left-click-drag to rotate... how horrible would that be, especially for beginners... and even then, you need another few buttons. Heh.

You're right... we need truly 3D input devices.

Even if we did have them, though, 3DOSX doesn't allow true 3D interaction.<hr /></blockquote>That might happen. But do you have any idea how sore and tired your arm would get if you had to hold it up in the air all day? I mean if perhaps there were force feedback, so you could feel what you were modeling, like a can, so you could run your hand over it and feel the lip, the little handle thing, and the opening... but a 3D glove thing would suck I think. I would prefer a mouse over that.

It is 3D though, 3DOSX that is, not just in the sense of the representation, but that you can jump from directory way up high to one way down low and off to the side without closing any directores. You can move anywhere in the file hierarchy, up, down, to a direcotry way over to the left (in a nother file tree)... you can jump up and down file trees, and to parallel file trees, but hmmm... in and out... I don't know.

The finder is kind of 3D in this sense, but you have to have many windows open at once.

Do you see what I mean?

My net idea would be 3D though. I am actually laying on the concepts right now and starting to design it. Maybe I will finish this one, who knows. I figured out a way to get it to work as a substitute for the finder though, it's file structure can exist within the finder's, but trying to find something you did in this might be hard to find if went looking for it in the finder. It is based on the idea of nodes, and clusters, and orbs... nodes are like directories linked together in a net, with as many links between directories as you want, if you open a node, you get its contents... or files.... in the center of a node complex you have an exit node that takes you the third level of abstratcion, a cluster (which is like a node, but instead of holding files, it holds a collection of nodes), you can then have cluster inside of clusters. Nodes, clusters or files are represented by a 3D orb that contains inside of it a preview of its contents-> whether that be the contents of a file (ie. its heading) or a representation of a node network.

This model is incredibly powerful. Because of the way that nodes and clusters are linked together, you can reogranize them in any possible way. They could (if ever computers are fast enough, and AI good enough) be linked together in an intuitve way. You could for instance organize your entire mp3 collection instantly by artist, or by genre... all in the finder... not without a mp3 app like iTunes... it solves the static (only one possible way) to organize mp3s in the finder. You don't have to worry about having your mp3's organized by composer when there is 2 composers... both can be part of the organization at the same time, solving the dilema of who is more important hans zimmer or enya in the soundtrack gladiator, both are part of the file organization system.

This is going to be hell to program. Well not setting up the basic cluster/node/orb/file structure thing, that is easy... but the algorithms that reorganize the network, or link things together... this involves math and programming techniques that I have never dealt with, and AI. God, this is going to need massive AI... not thinking AI, but you know what I mean.

I am so excited. This could be amazing! Perfect thing to have too when starting out in computer science... "so what is your experience" -> "err, this... (shows computer screen with this file system)" hehe... the need to impress is strong in this one, it is.

Minimum requirements for the final system: 200 Ghz G7.. 10 gigs of RAM... 100 gigs of free space... hehehe

If you steal this idea I will hunt you down

[ 05-26-2002, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: 11011001 ]