[Too Much Coffee Woman]

i think apple made some big mistakes from 92-96'

they should have focused all their resources into gaining support during the computer revolution of the 90s.

i think if steve jobs was around, this would be his "thang"....and we'd be a lot larger than 7%

[Millennium]

As I understand it, Jobs wasn't actually fired, per se. But they reduced his power to the point where he didn't have iron-fisted control over everything in the company. Being the control freak that he is, he didn't much like that, so he left to start his own company. NeXT was the result of that.

[cpt kangarooski]

Basically, it's important to look at what had been happening up to that point. The Apple III, released in 1980 was a gigantic failure. The Lisa, released in 1983 was a failure. (it worked ok, but cost too much)

Steve had been in charge of the Lisa project for a while, dropping it like a hot potato once he realized what was likely to happen. He then moved to the Macintosh project, ousted Jef Raskin, and turned it into his personal fiefdom.

The problem was that when the Mac was finally released, years behind schedule in 1984, it was a flop. There wasn't much third party software or hardware, it was underpowered and overpriced, and not very functional. No one was buying them. This was particularly bad, since the IBM PC series, and the clones and compatables that were beginning to appear at that time, were really taking over. Furthermore, the Mac development team had been totally burned out by the effort of bringing the first machine to market, and couldn't continue development for quite a while. Several left.

Worse still, Apple was very disorganized in terms of the coprorate structure; in fact, Scully had been brought in BY JOBS to run the boring parts of the show (he was initially given the Apple II division, IIRC) and try to help Jobs learn how to actually run a company.

Scully, for example, was the first person at Apple to require the company to run on an actual budget! Before, no one was accounting for the money in and out. He also started to re-organize the company (something that they weren't good at doing -- see Black Tuesday), cut down on some silly and extravagant projects, etc. Jobs, however, feeling that the Mac was being threatened by the Lisa (which for a while was the development platform for the Mac, and finally beginning to achieve some modest popularity), cancels the Lisa. Thousands are buried in a landfill in Utah for tax purposes.

Feeling threatened, and perhaps casting around for something else to latch onto, Remora-style, Jobs starts a power play against Scully. However, during the course of their weekend meeting, the Apple Board finds that Scully is a more responsible, more level-headed person. Jobs' grasp for power is reversed into him getting stripped of all of his authority at Apple, and he gets shipped off to a remote office he calls Siberia.

After a little time during which he realizes that he's got no chance of ousting Scully and getting back into the Board's good graces, he leaves, taking several key Mac personnel with him.

He then goes on to start NeXT, which is plagued by his terrible management, never turns a profit (Ross Perot, a major investor, calls it the worst decision he ever made; Canon probably lost a few hundred million) and never achieves popularity.

Meanwhile, the LaserWriter doesn't debut until a few months prior to Jobs' ouster, and was never championed by him. It and PageMaker are responsible for the huge surge of popularity of the Mac, and the creation, more or less, of the DTP market.

This is just from memory... I'd look at the book "Infinite Loop" for more details, and "Steve Jobs and the NeXT Big Thing" for what happened to him later.

There's really no reason to think that Jobs would magically become competent at running a company if he had stayed on.

[ 04-07-2002: Message edited by: cpt kangarooski ]

[scaught]

pirates of silicon valley i think touches on this too, doesnt it?

[spb]

for acting like an asshole - mind you that never stopped steve 'golden-balls' ballmer did it ?..

considering the state of the world , the last thing we need right now is ANOTHER asshole running a big company..

[cpt kangarooski]

Actually, from what I've heard, Steve Ballmer has been really good for MS. There's the whole dancing around thing, but and he's rumored to be a bit of a yes-man to Bill, but an effective manager.

I shudder to think of what could've happened if Apple had started with three Steves.

[driven]

Originally posted by cpt kangarooski:
<STRONG>

I shudder to think of what could've happened if Apple had started with three Steves.</STRONG>

A new dance craze?
The macarana might not have taken off!

[spb]

3 steves?

sounds like some cheap 70's porno flick..

anyone got a copy ?..

[Too Much Coffee Woman]

ok....

steve needed a little time to himself in the 80s, but who the heck was running the show when everyday people started buying computers in the mid-90s?

i don't remember seeing a single Mac outside a dirty 200mhz powermac in the back of a wiz in like 1997

(my first mac was an original imac)

[spb]

progress.. m'dear..

[gto47]

Jobs, however, feeling that the Mac was being threatened by the Lisa (which for a while was the development platform for the Mac, and finally beginning to achieve some modest popularity), cancels the Lisa.
Thousands are buried in a landfill in Utah for tax purposes.

Get me a shovel and a pickup, we're goin to Utah!!!

[beb]

I've read a bunch of books about Steve, Bill, Larry, John, Gil, Jean Louis, Monkeyboy & a bunch of barbarians. I've come to the following conclusions:

1. Steve Jobs is an artist. Artists, especially in America are among the most mistreated and wholy misunderstood segment of the population. I'm fairly certain despite a few occasional hiccups, Apple's & Steve's path is onward and upward from here.

2. Bill Gates is not as smart as everyone thinks he is. While still very bright and ambitious, his focus has somewhat turned to making a better and more secure, ::chuckle:: products and more humanatarian efforts.

3. Larry Ellison is not God, no matter what he may believe. Oracle needs to seriously rethink it's pricing schemes for many of it's products or face the consquences of it's customers going with far cheaper open source solutions.

4. Anybody who thinks that a Pentium is faster than a PowerPC is an idiot. I don't care what pro, semi pro, amateur tests show. The final analysis is that IBM is the real mover and shaker not Intel.

5. Gil Amelio is a nice and good person. He was just not very bright. He also should have realized that Apple is Steve's child and any parent will do the unbelieveable to get a child back.

6. Jean Louis G is an ivory tower egghead. He is the one almost entirely responsible for not allowing Apple to go the Intel route over a decade ago. He also wanted far too much for Be and it's assets. The Be OS was great, but not that ::cha ching:: great.

7. John Scully had the right idea, but at the wrong time. The market simply was not yet sophisticated enough to handle the wonderful and esquisite Newton. Long live the Newton.

8. Oh and Monkeyboy or Steve B. Well, um... No comment.

[ 04-07-2002: Message edited by: beb ]

[Face Ache]

I like Monkeyboy. Leave Monkeyboy alone...