[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Which is great and all, but that was a SCSI burner. The iMac shipped with USB 1.0 only, which is too slow really for a CD burner. SCSI was faster than USB, making the iMac somewhat of a downgrade for people who used external drives.

Wrong USB could run burners up to 4X. I have setup plenty of those around that time.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Wrong USB could run burners up to 4X. I have setup plenty of those around that time.

How many iMac owners do you think had external USB CD drives? The reality is that Apple sold a lot of machines where the way most consumers got data off the computer was the modem or the ethernet port.

[brassplayersrock²]

blu-ray/hd-dvd... who is winning?

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by goMac 

How many iMac owners do you think had external USB CD drives? The reality is that Apple sold a lot of machines where the way most consumers got data off the computer was the modem or the ethernet port.

If you wanted a burner that was the only option at the time for the iMac. I personally knew tons of people with external burners at that time on more than just iMacs.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

blu-ray/hd-dvd... who is winning?

This thread must rival anything seen elsewhere. Other than High Def Digest, anyways.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Honestly, probably 80% of the non techie people I know use iTunes. The people who use CD's continue to do so out of habit. iTunes is the world's 5th largest music store. I'm sure quite a few average users use it.



Again, you assume Apple cares about Mac gaming? As I said, Aspyr is working on their online store. IIRC it was announced almost two years ago. With Steam as my example, it is technically feasible. I was buying games on Steam 3 years ago, and presently many of your average gamers use it.



I actually do run Steam in Crossover, but that's besides the point. I'm not sure your average user is going to play that many games... But again, Aspyr is working on gaming downloads, and it has been technically possible for a while.



Well, this is a perfect example. Instead of having your sister learn how to burn things to CD, there are many available iPhoto plugins to submit your photos to a photo printing place online. In fact, iPhoto has a built in way to submit photos to Kodak for printing. Your example shows how cumbersome a optical drive is for the end user.



The Mac is always a platform that's ahead of the curve. I'm sure PC's will hold onto optical drives for a while more, but Apple is going to lead the market, not follow it.

Using iTunes and getting your movies from iTunes are two hugely different things. Yes, the average user now acquires music digitally. However, the average user still uses CD's. I see it at school all the time. My students burn each other CD's, bring PowerPoints in on CD, save downloaded videos on discs, all manner of stuff.

And Mac gaming may not be that important, but gaming is huge and the overwhelming majority of those games are sold on discs.

As to when Mac makes its move away from optical, you've also got to remember that Apple is in an entirely different position now than they were when they made the first iMac. Mac is now aspiring for serious market share. An off-the-wall move would be too risky now, whereas during the era of the original iMac, Apple really didn't have much to lose.

Obviously someday the industry will outgrow optical discs. I wager, though, that we won't see the first commercial Mac without them until 2012, or maybe not until...next week!

Ha ha, fooled ya. That new subnotebook probably won't have a drive. Maybe if it pans out then Apple will start moving that direction. We'll see.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Dude, they care a lot because when unemployment figures rise the stock market gets hurt by that news every time. ...

Actually when a company announces that they have reduced their number of employees their stock goes up. Every time. Companies only care about their stock price, not the 'stock market'.

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The reality is there is nothing your average consumer needs an optical drive for, just as there wasn't anything your average consumer needed a floppy drive for.

What about major OS upgrades? It will be quite a while before any reasonable percentage of the population can easily download an 8 GB OS.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

blu-ray/hd-dvd... who is winning?

Recap:

Blu-Ray won this week when Warner decided to shift its support exclusively to Blu-Ray based on fourth quarter sales that favored Blu-Ray over HD-DVD, 70% to 30%. Basically, they're afraid that if they don't settle on one format now then the HD movie market will move to digital downloads before either disc format can get established--and that market promises to be less profitable than discs that can be sold in brick and mortar shops.

HD-DVD is dead. Long-live Blu-Ray.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

When did the first iMac with either a bus fast enough to feed a CD burner, or a internal CD burner come out?

Apple shipped consumer machines for quite a while with no way to get files off except for the modem/ethernet.

That's not what you said. You said CDs didn't burn then. They did.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Using iTunes and getting your movies from iTunes are two hugely different things. Yes, the average user now acquires music digitally. However, the average user still uses CD's. I see it at school all the time. My students burn each other CD's, bring PowerPoints in on CD, save downloaded videos on discs, all manner of stuff.

My feeling is that Apple feels that people will mostly watch their movies on a TV, but they'll have that external drive as a stop gap for people who still need to watch things on DVD.

CD music is pretty easy for Apple to deal with. They'll just tell people to use iTunes.

The school district I work for has already gone optical free at the urging of Apple years and years ago. Each student has a folder on a server that is world accessible from Windows or OS X.

Originally Posted by Helmling 

And Mac gaming may not be that important, but gaming is huge and the overwhelming majority of those games are sold on discs.

And on the PC side at least, most those games are also sold on Steam. Take a look at their catalog sometime. Between Steam and Gametap I've only bought a few games recently, and Gametap is certainly something marketed towards your average consumer.

Originally Posted by Helmling 

As to when Mac makes its move away from optical, you've also got to remember that Apple is in an entirely different position now than they were when they made the first iMac. Mac is now aspiring for serious market share. An off-the-wall move would be too risky now, whereas during the era of the original iMac, Apple really didn't have much to lose.

I doubt that Apple dropping the floppy drive from the iMac helped them gain market share. I mean, I don't remember anyone saying "A computer without a floppy drive, I must buy it!" Apple will drop the optical drive because it saves space, makes the computer more reliable, and lets them push better designs.

Edit: Sorry, reread what you wrote. I think Apple dropping the floppy from the iMac was completely a design decision, like dropping the CD drive would be now. I think your average consumer is far less dependent on optical media than they think.

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Ha ha, fooled ya. That new subnotebook probably won't have a drive. Maybe if it pans out then Apple will start moving that direction. We'll see.

Same thing happened with the floppy drive. The iMac dropped it first, then the laptops, then the towers finally dropped their zip drives. Once Apple starts the process I give it two years until optical drives are gone across the line, except for the Mac Pros.

Originally Posted by awaspaas 

What about major OS upgrades? It will be quite a while before any reasonable percentage of the population can easily download an 8 GB OS.

Yeah, I mentioned this. With the new Macbooks I guess we'll find out what Apple's plan is. I'm guessing thumb drive. In the future I think Apple will just have people Netboot to a restore server over the internet, but I doubt that would be something people would be ready for by next week.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

That's not what you said. You said CDs didn't burn then. They did.

Did I? Oh, I did. I meant in the context of the iMac. I had a CD burner on my G3 tower back then, and I have a Mac repair guide from like 1993 detailing different brands of old fangled CD burners, so I'm aware there were cd burners on the market. But burners were way out of reach of your average consumer.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by goMac 

My feeling is that Apple feels that people will mostly watch their movies on a TV, but they'll have that external drive as a stop gap for people who still need to watch things on DVD.

CD music is pretty easy for Apple to deal with. They'll just tell people to use iTunes.

The school district I work for has already gone optical free at the urging of Apple years and years ago. Each student has a folder on a server that is world accessible from Windows or OS X.



And on the PC side at least, most those games are also sold on Steam. Take a look at their catalog sometime. Between Steam and Gametap I've only bought a few games recently, and Gametap is certainly something marketed towards your average consumer.



I doubt that Apple dropping the floppy drive from the iMac helped them gain market share. I mean, I don't remember anyone saying "A computer without a floppy drive, I must buy it!" Apple will drop the optical drive because it saves space, makes the computer more reliable, and lets them push better designs.

Edit: Sorry, reread what you wrote. I think Apple dropping the floppy from the iMac was completely a design decision, like dropping the CD drive would be now. I think your average consumer is far less dependent on optical media than they think.



Same thing happened with the floppy drive. The iMac dropped it first, then the laptops, then the towers finally dropped their zip drives. Once Apple starts the process I give it two years until optical drives are gone across the line, except for the Mac Pros.



Yeah, I mentioned this. With the new Macbooks I guess we'll find out what Apple's plan is. I'm guessing thumb drive. In the future I think Apple will just have people Netboot to a restore server over the internet, but I doubt that would be something people would be ready for by next week.

Earth to GoMac: Your usage patterns do not reflect the average user.

Just because it *can* be done, does not mean it *will* be done.

Really man, you seem to enjoy beating dead horses, but me...it gets old.

Wait and see who's right.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Earth to GoMac: Your usage patterns do not reflect the average user.

God forbid Apple do anything new.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Did I? Oh, I did. I meant in the context of the iMac. I had a CD burner on my G3 tower back then, and I have a Mac repair guide from like 1993 detailing different brands of old fangled CD burners, so I'm aware there were cd burners on the market. But burners were way out of reach of your average consumer.

I remember cheap USB burners coming out for the iMac months after it first came out.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I remember cheap USB burners coming out for the iMac months after it first came out.

Yup, there were tons of them, they had accessories for the iMac like they do the iPod now. Everyone was making Bondi blue external everything. Hard drives, cd-burners, USB hubs, floppy drives, etc.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I remember cheap USB burners coming out for the iMac months after it first came out.

Cheap? My Que I bought in 2000 was four hundred freakin dollars.

Here's a drive that, judging from the requirements, looks like it came out around 2000.
Sony Spressa 4x/4x/6x USB CD-RW Review

[icruise]

While Apple is often ahead of the curve with many technologies, they have been clinging to optical drives for as long as I can remember. As someone who likes small portables, I've been dying for them to deliver a small and light portable with no optical drive for YEARS. Makers of Windows portables have been doing it for a long long time, but Apple hasn't released a portable computer without an optical drive since they first started using them in portables. The closest was something like the PowerBook Duo or 2400, which didn't have internal floppy drives, but there haven't been any modern portables like that, and certainly no desktop machines.

I think it's possible that they could introduce an ultraportable machine of some kind with no internal drive, but it is absolutely inconceivable to me that they would remove optical drives from one of their main product lines anytime in the next several years. If they do next week, I'll eat my hat.

[cSurfr]

I'll send you my Illini hat. . . I haven't worn it since they blew the bowl game last week

[goMac]

Microsoft has announced that ABC, Disney, and (strangely enough) Sony will be adding content to XBox Live:
2008 CES Microsoft Briefing - Xbox Announcements - Xbox

Hm, Apple better add 720p...

(Also of note, no HD-DVD XBox 360 was announced.)

[cSurfr]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Microsoft has announced that ABC, Disney, and (strangely enough) Sony will be adding content to XBox Live:
2008 CES Microsoft Briefing - Xbox Announcements - Xbox

Hm, Apple better add 720p...

(Also of note, no HD-DVD XBox 360 was announced.)

If MS Points weren't so overpriced, I would consider dumping NetFlix in favor of XBLM. Apple will have to do much better if they plan on taking some of that market.

[goMac]

Edit: NM

Edit: Hey, I'll use this post for something useful...

One of my issues with XBox Live is their HD content is inconsistent. For example, no Matrix or Lord of the Rings in HD. But stuff like Space Cowboys or Disney's Atlantis is in HD.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

If the HD battle is indeed over, I still think it will be quite a while before we see Blu-ray come out as the winner with an absolute certainty.

The reason I say that is the simple fact that I can't see Paramount doing a 180 on their HD-DVD exclusivity anywhere near this soon after having gone exclusive in the first place.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see continuously strong HD-DVD support from both Paramount and Universal through the end of 2008. And if we do, it may serve to, at the very least, encourage additional support for HD-DVD that may indeed keep the battle going for some time.

I suspect that the exclusivity is always a timed contract. I wouldn't be surprised if Universal's contract ends this spring. I suspected the same thing for Warner might have been true, which would make sense given their Blu-ray exclusivity adoption schedule. However, their announcement this early surprised me given that it basically tells Toshiba to frack off for the rest of the contract.

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Okay, as a disclaimer, I realize that every sensible businessman realizes the smart money is on China (given its 1.3B people market, burgeoning economy, rising middle class, et al.).

But first, if Toshiba is counting on China to sell its goods, then it really has reached a new low. First, the average Chinese earns about 1000RMB, or about $125, per month. A majority of Chinese won't be in the market for a HD DVD player, much less a HDTV anytime soon. (Note: This is the same country where for many people going to McDonald's is treated as a special occasion).

This is a common fallacy about China. Of course the average Chinese salary is quite low. The average Chinese person my wait tables or clean toilets or do housekeeping. Or worse, s/he may work the farms in blistering heat, in bare feet in ankle deep water with snails infested with Schistosomiasis. However, at the same time, $300000 condos in Beijing are snapped up quickly and 40" LCD TVs are commonplace. The upper class is quite well off, pay more for coffee than Americans, send their kids to foreign universities at $30000 a year, and drive GM, German, Japanese cars. Who do you think the housekeepers work for?

I remember visiting Beijing many years ago. I asked the taxi driver where to get new electronics and so he dropped me off at an area which consisted of a whole bunch of consumer electronics stores side by side. I asked him how good the deals were, and he said he had no idea, because he can't afford anything there. Nonetheless, when I got there, the place was packed, and stuff was being bought left and right. Think Christmas time as Best Buy, but 12 months of the year.

Beijing alone has a population of 17+ million people. That's about half of the population of the State of California. Even if only 1% of the population in China can afford hi-def, that's still a lot of people.

Second, even if Toshiba were to compete in the Chinese market, they'd be competing with cheap Chinese manufacturers and won't be making many sales if they charge a premium on their Toshiba branded sets.

Entry level Toshiba players are made by Alco Electronics in China, the parent company of Venturer. Toshiba's plan was to sell the players uber cheaply, and may money off royalties.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Oh oh Eug, you may have been wrong again...
You thought you wouldn't see a 1.1 BR player before Sept for $300?

Philips launches BDP7200 BonusView-enabled Blu-ray player - Engadget HD

At $350 it is damn close plus that is just the MSRP so I am sure you can get it easily at $300 in April.

I said $200. If it's $300, I'm not buying, unless it's a totally awesome player with top tier DVD upscaling or whatever. However, if it's anything like I expect it be (relatively slow, and just OK DVD upscaling), I'm not interested until they drop below $200.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Yes and extremely well.

The PS3 is reasonably good at DVD upscaling, but it's definitely not top tier.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Macbooks will be first obviously, and Apple has already sold some iMacs without optical drives. It won't be too much longer before all iMac modals drop the optical drive. Obviously laptops are a priority because they need to be thinner.

I think it's likely we may see a Mini with no optical drive as well.

The iMacs they sold w/o optical drives were for education, to make them more secure and a tad cheaper. No other reason.

Regular Macbooks, Macbook Pros, iMacs, and Minis will still have such drives. They are coming out with an ultra-portable w/o a drive, but that's it. And even then, it'll have a docking station WITH such a drive.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

The iMacs they sold w/o optical drives were for education, to make them more secure and a tad cheaper. No other reason.

Regular Macbooks, Macbook Pros, iMacs, and Minis will still have such drives. They are coming out with an ultra-portable w/o a drive, but that's it. And even then, it'll have a docking station WITH such a drive.

Well, as I noted, for about 3 years Apple sold machines with no writable drives aside from the internal hard drive. It wouldn't be the first time Apple has left USB/Firewire/Internet as the only way to get info off a machine.

As far as I'm aware the new ultraportable IS the new Macbook. We'll see if the drive comes standard, I bet it won't.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Well, as I noted, for about 3 years Apple sold machines with no writable drives aside from the internal hard drive. It wouldn't be the first time Apple has left USB/Firewire/Internet as the only way to get info off a machine.

As far as I'm aware the new ultraportable IS the new Macbook. We'll see if the drive comes standard, I bet it won't.

They sold those units to a VERY exclusive market, one that favored security over convenience.

Optical drives will be standard on every single Macintosh, with the exception of an ultra-subcompact unit that Apple will release, it will be different and separate from the present Macbooks and MBPs. However, even that unit will have a docking station WITH an optical drive.

ODs aren't going anywhere for at least another 4-6 years. They are, and will be, standard Apple (and PC) hardware for some time.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

They sold those units to a VERY exclusive market, one that favored security over convenience.

Huh? I was referring to the original G3 iMacs, original iBooks and the original Powerbook G4's.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Optical drives will be standard on every single Macintosh, with the exception of an ultra-subcompact unit that Apple will release, it will be different and separate from the present Macbooks and MBPs. However, even that unit will have a docking station WITH an optical drive.

This is getting even further off topic... but I don't think Apple will want to pollute their product lines that much. Two laptops with 13" screens is bound to be confusing for consumers, and I can't imagine Steve wants to deal with that. Same reason we don't have 15" Macbooks. The last laptop to share a screen size, the 12" Powerbook, didn't last too long.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

ODs aren't going anywhere for at least another 4-6 years. They are, and will be, standard Apple (and PC) hardware for some time.

You do realize if Apple ships a notebook with an optional optical drive, that's going to be game changing, right? Mac software developers will be forced to be moved to online distribution, and because of stronger online distribution Apple will begin dropping optical drives from other product lines....

Seriously. A Macbook without an optical drive would force companies like Microsoft to distribute Office online. I mean, what else are they going to do? Tell all the subnotebook people that they need to buy an optical drive to use Office?

[awaspaas]

So I ask again - who, other than a few dorks on MacNN, is willing to download an 8 GB 10.6 update??

[brassplayersrock²]

these 3 way old guys are sitting around the kitchen table. one of them says that his life is so hard. when he wakes up at 7 am, he has to stand infront of the toilet for 20 minutes and if he's lucky, he can get only a few drops out.

another guy laughed and said that he had it even worse. when he wakes up at 7am he has to sit on the toilet for 40 minutes and is lucky if he gets even a small amount of crap out

the third geezer laughs and says, oh i have it so much worse than you two! at 7am i take a huge dump, and make a river when i piss.

the other two say, hey that isn't awful at all!

the third guys says, yeah it is! I usually wake up at 11am

[goMac]

Originally Posted by awaspaas 

So I ask again - who, other than a few dorks on MacNN, is willing to download an 8 GB 10.6 update??

Ask any of us ADC Select members. We used to do it every few weeks.

Regardless, as I mentioned they could sell it on a thumb drive. It's going to be a question addressed in the next few weeks anyway if the subnotebook has an optional optical drive.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Huh? I was referring to the original G3 iMacs, original iBooks and the original Powerbook G4's.

In other words, the machines that only came with CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drives.

You do realize if Apple ships a notebook with an optional optical drive, that's going to be game changing, right? Mac software developers will be forced to be moved to online distribution, and because of stronger online distribution Apple will begin dropping optical drives from other product lines....

Seriously. A Macbook without an optical drive would force companies like Microsoft to distribute Office online. I mean, what else are they going to do? Tell all the subnotebook people that they need to buy an optical drive to use Office?

You're assuming that Apple will be replacing its main consumer portable with some kind of ultra-portable that has no internal drive, rather than introducing it as a separate model. I don't think that is remotely the case. If they do introduce a driveless ultra-portable (and let me just remind people that I recall rumors of Apple ultra-portables going back to before the original iBook was released, so this is by no means a certainty) it will be a separate product line.

As such, making the drive optional wouldn't be "game changing" in any way. Makers of Windows machines have been selling laptops with optional external drives for years and years. These machines have no way of installing package software, and no way of reinstalling the OS without the optional drive (unless you are very computer savvy, anyway).

Originally Posted by goMac 

Ask any of us ADC Select members. We used to do it every few weeks.

Regardless, as I mentioned they could sell it on a thumb drive. It's going to be a question addressed in the next few weeks anyway if the subnotebook has an optional optical drive.

We're not going to have to discuss the actual price of 8GB thumb drives again, are we?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Huh? I was referring to the original G3 iMacs, original iBooks and the original Powerbook G4's.

Bollocks.

This is getting even further off topic... but I don't think Apple will want to pollute their product lines that much. Two laptops with 13" screens is bound to be confusing for consumers, and I can't imagine Steve wants to deal with that. Same reason we don't have 15" Macbooks. The last laptop to share a screen size, the 12" Powerbook, didn't last too long.

You do realize if Apple ships a notebook with an optional optical drive, that's going to be game changing, right? Mac software developers will be forced to be moved to online distribution, and because of stronger online distribution Apple will begin dropping optical drives from other product lines....

Apple isn't changing the game like that for a very long time.

Seriously. A Macbook without an optical drive would force companies like Microsoft to distribute Office online. I mean, what else are they going to do? Tell all the subnotebook people that they need to buy an optical drive to use Office?

Not happening. Macs will have optical drives standard. Deal.


Your format lost, Apple's not going to change just because you're bitter. Blu-ray won, it will be fabulously successful. Those of us who appreciate it's advantages are rejoicing, those who aren't will buy a Blu-ray unit anyway. It will replace DVD.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by awaspaas 

So I ask again - who, other than a few dorks on MacNN, is willing to download an 8 GB 10.6 update??

No way. It'll ship on a pretty, shiny new Blu-ray disc.

[Face Ache]

TOKYO — Sony said Monday that PlayStation 3 game machine sales totaled 1.2 million in North America during the key holiday season, boosting the strength of the company's Blu-ray video format because the console also works as a Blu-ray player...

Newsvine - PS3 Holiday Sales Total 1.2 Million

[Face Ache]

[thud]
[clang]
CART-MASTER: Bring out your dead!
[clang]
Bring out your dead!
[clang]
Bring out your dead!
[clang]
Bring out your dead!
[clang]
Bring out your dead!
CUSTOMER: Here's one.
CART-MASTER: Ninepence.
DEAD PERSON: I'm not dead!
CART-MASTER: What?
CUSTOMER: Nothing. Here's your ninepence.
DEAD PERSON: I'm not dead!
CART-MASTER: 'Ere. He says he's not dead!
CUSTOMER: Yes he is.
DEAD PERSON: I'm not!
CART-MASTER: He isn't?
CUSTOMER: Well, he will be soon. He's very ill.
DEAD PERSON: I'm getting better!
CUSTOMER: No you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment.
CART-MASTER: Oh, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.
DEAD PERSON: I don't want to go on the cart!
CUSTOMER: Oh, don't be such a baby.
CART-MASTER: I can't take him.
DEAD PERSON: I feel fine!
CUSTOMER: Well, do us a favor.
CART-MASTER: I can't.
CUSTOMER: Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes? He won't be long.
CART-MASTER: No, I've got to go to the Robinson's. They've lost nine today.
CUSTOMER: Well, when's your next round?
CART-MASTER: Thursday.
DEAD PERSON: I think I'll go for a walk.
CUSTOMER: You're not fooling anyone you know. Look, isn't there something
you can do?
DEAD PERSON: [singing] I feel happy... I feel happy.
[whop]
CUSTOMER: Ah, thanks very much.
CART-MASTER: Not at all. See you on Thursday.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by goMac 

(Also of note, no HD-DVD XBox 360 was announced.)

It was a stupid rumor in the first place.

[mrtew]

You guys are weird. Why would you want to eliminate the optical drive for your computer? That's one of the best things about a computer is the drive that can handle reading and writing all those different discs. I can't wait for a blu-ray drive. Imagine if Apple eliminated it first. People would say wow those Apple computers can't even play DVDs, let alone blu-rays. I'll stick with a decent PC, thanks.

[icruise]

Aside from goMac, I don't think anyone is saying they want to get rid of optical drives on normal computers. An ultra-portable is a different matter as it will not generally be someone's primary computer, and is targeted at people who want the smallest and lightest computer possible.

[Dakar the Fourth]

I see reality set in over the weekend, causing goMac to go insane.

[starman]

Originally Posted by icruise 

We're not going to have to discuss the actual price of 8GB thumb drives again, are we?

LOL. Forgot about that. I'm still waiting to find out which Magic Radio Shack had those thumb drivers for a fraction of everyone else.....including Radio Shack's own site

[Eug]

On the hardware front, this CES is disappointing.

1) Blu-ray players are still quite pricey. The CHEAPEST list price is $350, with several announced in the $499 or more range. (No, a $200 external drive doesn't count. That's too expensive too for 2008 IMO.)
2) No new HD DVD players announced AT ALL, aside from the new Samsung combo player.

The good news is Paramount is going to release Season's Two and Three for Star Trek (original series). The Season 1 box set is totally awesome.

The label predicts that its first high-definition release, the Nov. 20 HD DVD release of Star Trek: Season One, will reach 100,000 units sold. That momentum has led the company to commit to releasing all subsequent Star Trek seasons on high-def, amounting to two more HD DVD titles. That is ambitious, as most major studios are not yet heavily mining TV DVD libraries for catalog titles to release in next-gen formats.

“I think that when we are looking at catalog and some sitcoms, we don’t see [high-def] moving the dial that much, but with some of our sci-fi and action-adventure, it can be a very positive format change for us,” said Ross.

Nothing has been confirmed, but Ross speculates that CBS’ CSI is a great upcoming candidate for HD DVD release, as “it lends itself to high-def with its magnificent effects.”

Also, CBS’ first-season release of Showtime’s Dexter has sold more than 250,000 copies on standard DVD, respectable for a series that is seen by a limited number of subscribers.

[starman]

Let's be realistic here. Optical drives going the way of the dodo would be completely ridiculous for any kind of average user. CDs, movies, games, apps, OSs, data, pictures, fonts, etc. are all shipped on CD/DVD. For Apple to say "well, we're going to come out with a Macbook Pro without an optical drive" is ludicrous. It's going to take a LONG TIME for the optical drive to disappear. First, you need EVERYONE on broadband. Not 90%, it has to be 100%. Second, until every single track ever made is on some kind of online music distribution system, CDs aren't going away. Have you (goMac) looked at the vast library of CDs at your local BB/CC/Frys lately? Now, imagine if that entire revenue stream just up and disappeared overnight. It's not going to happen.

Seriously, I can't even fathom how screwed up a device would be without an optical drive.

In other news, HD-DVD is dead and some people just can't let go.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by starman 

Let's be realistic here. Optical drives going the way of the dodo would be completely ridiculous for any kind of average user.

Right now, and for the near future, I would definitely agree with you. But I do think that eventually we will move away from optical media in general. I definitely don't agree with gomac that it's going to happen with Apple here soon, though...

Originally Posted by starman 

In other news, HD-DVD is dead and some people just can't let go.

While it's definitely not going to beat Blu-Ray anymore, with Universal and Paramount still pumping out releases I wouldn't call it dead. The possibility of coexistence is still there if the two largest studios can release enough to keep people buying until combo players become the standard.

I'm not buying anything from either side anytime soon. I'll be happy with the discs I have and may go back to Netflix for more - but this entire war has left me jaded on the entire industry.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

I see reality set in over the weekend, causing goMac to go insane.

Karma. The universe's way of entertaining people who had to put up with sh!t from others. I see jokell has slowed down to go bang his head with his Nintendo gear too.

And anyone who says optical drives are needed has never had a hard drive die on them. There's no better archiving format than an optical disc and Blu-ray is the first to use a more resistant coating to protect data.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

this entire war has left me jaded on the entire industry.

If you hadn't spent one year being a pissant you would be happier right now. Next time don't diss a technology just because of brand loyalty.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Karma. The universe's way of entertaining people who had to put up with sh!t from others. I see jokell has slowed down to go bang his head with his Nintendo gear too.

And anyone who says optical drives are needed has never had a hard drive die on them. There's no better archiving format than an optical disc and Blu-ray is the first to use a more resistant coating to protect data.

My Nintendo gear??? WTF are you talking about?

And I was saying optical drives *are* needed. But you can't think that we're going to be using optical drives forever. Eventually we will move to something else as technology progresses. I don't think it will be hard drives or current flash drives, but something new will come out and we will think of optical drives like we currently do floppy drives. It's only a question of when, not a question of if.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

And I was saying optical drives *are* needed.

To the contrary just one month ago you were replying my points with your usual bullshizzle about how 50GB optical discs aren't needed yak yak yak. Now learn some humility and be happier without brand loyality fanboyism. It's silly. And use Piracetam. It's good stuff for all humans. Creates mental clarity

[starman]

Ok, here's my prediction.

Flash media will eventually become much cheaper to produce. Yeah, I know that falls in like with "the sun will come up tomorrow", but if you think about it, we already have 16GB iPhones. That's almost 4x what a single-layer DVD can hold, but the price is still WAY out of whack to go to flash memory right now. Flash's positive trait is the fact that you don't need to "burn" anything, you just copy the stuff over like you do any file or folder. Boom, done. Once the price of flash becomes reasonable (read: no fantasy Radio Shack prices), and competes DIRECTLY with optical media (including the price of the burner), then will we see a decline in the need for optical media.

Also, we need all computers (PC, Mac) to boot off flash media.

The only caveat to that is persistent storage. Honestly, I don't know how long stuff will stay on a flash drive. A year? 10? I know that the CDs I bought in 1986 still play fine.

Broadband still can't carry/stream HD media reliably. It just can't, and it won't for a while. There's a part of me that would like to "rent" online, but I can't right now because the transport for HD isn't quite there yet.

So that leaves us with....optical media for a long, long time. The stuff on floppies we were all able to transfer over and burn onto a new media very easily. The only floppies I have left are a few for silly reasons (like, what I wrote on the labels).

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

To the contrary just one month ago you were replying my points with your usual bullshizzle about how 50GB optical discs aren't needed yak yak yak. Now learn some humility and be happier without brand loyality fanboyism. It's silly. And use Piracetam. It's good stuff for all humans. Creates mental clarity

50GB discs *AREN'T* needed right now, but that doesn't mean optical drives as a whole aren't. Way to not have the most basic reading comprehension skills.

And I don't know where you get "brand loyalty fanboyism" - I have no allegiance to any brand in this matter. I thought (and still think) HD DVD is the better technology. I don't see how that makes me a fanboy...

Edit - still want to know what the hell you were talking about with the whole Nintendo bit.

[PaperNotes]

]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

50GB discs *AREN'T* needed right now, but that doesn't mean optical drives as a whole aren't.

Yes they ARE. Just because you don't have any important large sized data or never backed up a large volume to optical doesn't mean no one does.