[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Regarding the latest fighting over Gaza and the Palestinians abducting and killing young men (teenagers) I just want to say that I think that Israel has a right to wage war and I, for one, am proud of them standing up for what is right.

GO ISRAEL - - WE SUPPORT YOU

When is it ever right to destroy the lives of half a million innocent civilians and killing thousands of innocents. Imagine all those innocent embryos they are killing.

[Cody Dawg]

I do not advocate war.

But, you know what?

Terrorists (and you gotta admit that most of them ARE Palestinians ) are one day going to have a dirty bomb. They're going to walk into Israel and detonate and kill 100,000 people without thinking twice.

So, before that happens something needs to be done to prevent that from happening.

When is it ever right to destroy the lives of half a million innocent civilians and killing thousands of innocents. Imagine all those innocent embryos they are killing.

I agree with that hyteckit...especially since they are more likely to be Israelis.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I do not advocate war.

You keep saying that, but it is clear you do

I don't advocate war. For me, war is something that must be resigned to when one cannot peacefully resolve conflict originating from an attacking nation, forcing the defense of your own nation through military means. This does not allow for preemptive military actions.

I believe military conflict can be avoided almost every time if both sides are willing to meet half-way. So far, in the Israeli conflict, I don't see that either side has come close to the half-way mark. Clearly this is subjective, but I see that there are people on both sides of the equation who don't want peace and that war is inevitable.

[Cody Dawg]

Listen: Israel has been at war whether you accept it or not. It happens every single time Hezbollah lobs a bomb over from Lebanon or sends in a suicide bomber.

The Israelis did not start this war on their border - Hezbollah and Lebanon (by apathy) did.

I agree with our president: Israel has a right to defend itself.

THAT IS WHAT I "ADVOCATE": DEFENSE OF A SOVEREIGN NATION OR COUNTRY.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I agree with that hyteckit...especially since they are more likely to be Israelis.

Hmmm...

At Least 372 Dead in Lebanon, 34 in Israel
By The Associated Press , 07.22.2006, 07:01 PM

[Cody Dawg]

Yeah?

How many Israelis have been killed in the last 18 months?

Count them and let us know, okay?

Funny how you must think it's okay for Jews to be killed, Pendergast, because you conveniently "forget" about them when I repeatedly mention attacks upon Israel (repeated attacks and bombings) led up this incursion in order to secure the border of Israel.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Yeah?

How many Israelis have been killed in the last 18 months?

Count them and let us know, okay?

Funny how you must think it's okay for Jews to be killed, Pendergast, because you conveniently "forget" about them when I repeatedly mention attacks upon Israel (repeated attacks and bombings) led up this incursion in order to secure the border of Israel.

Cody, I don't think it is OK for Jews to killed anymore than anyone else around the world.

But your preference for the protection of Israeli babies is quite telling. There is no denial here that Israel is vicitmized on an ongoing basis.

I have it against you who prefer the survival of Israeli babies against others.

Those babies are [b]unarmed[/i] Cody. Those embryos are defenseless where ever they come from!

[Cody Dawg]

Give me a freaking break.

You're crazy.

The Palestinians are the ones who arm small children with bombs and teach them that they should be bomb-carriers to kill Jews. THAT IS THE POINT OF THE CARICATURE, PENDERGAST.

It's WRONG to involve ANY babies in ANY war..."get it" now, Pendergast? THAT IS THE POINT. The "babies" in the cartoon represent not only babies...but also children...including the children that are turned into suicide bombers by Palestinians.

Do you "get it" now?

By the way, if you're so pro-life, when was the last time you marched for pro-Life? I marched with our local church about 6 months ago in a peaceful march...with my children...one of whom is a baby...and I'm expecting another baby soon also.

Or are you an armchair activist?

The guy who sits in front of the television with a bag of potato chips watching a show on Save the Whales who feebly says, "I must...I must...I must save the whales! Er...well...maybe tomorrow."

[Kevin]

Cody you sent me a private message I don't think was actually meant for me.

[Cody Dawg]

No, it was meant for you. I just CC'd you to show you some (should say ONE) of the B$ that the mods are capable of when they launch personal attacks against MacNNers. (No one from the Political Lounge, oddly enough, which is where I'd have expected it.)

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Listen: Israel has been at war whether you accept it or not. It happens every single time Hezbollah lobs a bomb over from Lebanon or sends in a suicide bomber.

The Israelis did not start this war on their border - Hezbollah and Lebanon (by apathy) did.

I agree with our president: Israel has a right to defend itself.

THAT IS WHAT I "ADVOCATE": DEFENSE OF A SOVEREIGN NATION OR COUNTRY.

So if gang A kills a family member of gang B, it's okay for gang B to drive by gang A's house and start shooting. It doesn't matter if gang B kills a few innocent people because gang B is just defending itself? Gang A has been at with with Gang B for decades, it makes it okay?

Cody Dawg for gang violent behavior.

[Angus_D]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

How many Israelis have been killed in the last 18 months?

Count them and let us know, okay?

How many Lebonese have been killed in the past 2 wekes? count them and let us know, okay?

[Powerbook]

Nice memories:

The Times July 20, 2006

The plaque outside the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which has incensed the British Ambassador

British anger at terror celebration
By Ned Parker and Stephen Farrell
The commemoration of Israeli bombings that killing 92 people has caused offence

AS ISRAEL wages war against Hezbollah “terrorists” in Lebanon, Britain has protested about the celebration by right-wing Israelis of a Jewish “act of terrorism” against British rule 60 years ago this week.

The rightwingers, including Binyamin Netanyahu, the former Prime Minister, are commemorating the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the headquarters of British rule, that killed 92 people and helped to drive the British from Palestine.

They have erected a plaque outside the restored building, and are holding a two-day seminar with speeches and a tour of the hotel by one of the Jewish resistance fighters involved in the attack.

Simon McDonald, the British Ambassador in Tel Aviv, and John Jenkins, the Consul-General in Jerusalem, have written to the municipality, stating: “We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated.”

In particular they demanded the removal of the plaque that pays tribute to the Irgun, the Jewish resistance branch headed by Menachem Begin, the future Prime Minister, which carried out the attack on July 22, 1946.

The plaque presents as fact the Irgun’s claim that people died because the British ignored warning calls. “For reasons known only to the British, the hotel was not evacuated,” it states.

Mr McDonald and Dr Jenkins denied that the British had been warned, adding that even if they had “this does not absolve those who planted the bomb from responsibility for the deaths”. On Monday city officials agreed to remove the language deemed offensive from the blue sign hanging on the hotel’s gates, though that had not been done shortly before it was unveiled last night.

The controversy over the plaque and the two-day celebration of the bombing, sponsored by Irgun veterans and the right-wing Menachem Begin Heritage Centre, goes to the heart of the debate over the use of political violence in the Middle East. Yesterday Mr Netanyahu argued in a speech celebrating the attack that the Irgun were governed by morals, unlike fighters from groups such as Hamas.

“It’s very important to make the distinction between terror groups and freedom fighters, and between terror action and legitimate military action,” he said. “Imagine that Hamas or Hezbollah would call the military headquarters in Tel Aviv and say, ‘We have placed a bomb and we are asking you to evacuate the area’.”

But the view of the attack was very different in 1946 when The Times branded the Irgun “terrorists in disguise”. Decades later, Irgun veterans are unrepentant. Sarah Agassi, 80, remembers spying in the King David Hotel.

She and a fellow agent posed as a couple. They danced tangos and waltzes, sipped whisky and wine while they cased out the hotel.

On the day her brother and his fellow fighters posed as Arabs delivering milk and brought seven milk churns, each containing 50kg of explosives, into the building. Ms Agassi waited across the street until her brother rushed out. She said that she then made the warning call to the British command in the hotel.

Sitting in the luxurious hotel lobby, she expressed no regret. “We fought for our independence. We thought it was the right way . . . If I had to fight for Israel, I swear even now I would do anything.”

TWO VERSIONS

The original wording:

The Hotel housed the Mandate Secretariat as well as the Army Headquarters. On July 1946 (sic) Irgun fighters at the order of the Hebrew Resistance Movement planted explosives in the basement. Warning phone calls had been made urging the hotel’s occupants to leave immediately. For reasons known only to the British the hotel was not evacuated and after 25 minutes the bombs exploded, and to the Irgun’s regret and dismay 91 persons were killed.

The amended version

. . .Warning phone calls had been made to the hotel, the Palestine Post and the French Consulate, urging the hotel’s occupants to leave immediately.

The hotel was not evacuated, and after 25 minutes the bombs exploded. The entire western wing was destroyed, and to the Irgun’s regret 92 persons were killed.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...7717_1,00.html

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Listen: Israel has been at war whether you accept it or not. It happens every single time Hezbollah lobs a bomb over from Lebanon or sends in a suicide bomber.

The Israelis did not start this war on their border - Hezbollah and Lebanon (by apathy) did.

I agree with our president: Israel has a right to defend itself.

THAT IS WHAT I "ADVOCATE": DEFENSE OF A SOVEREIGN NATION OR COUNTRY.

Try this pic on for size. It better represents what I think you're trying to show.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by Powerbook

Nice memories:

The Times July 20, 2006

The plaque outside the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which has incensed the British Ambassador

British anger at terror celebration
By Ned Parker and Stephen Farrell
The commemoration of Israeli bombings that killing 92 people has caused offence

AS ISRAEL wages war against Hezbollah “terrorists” in Lebanon, Britain has protested about the celebration by right-wing Israelis of a Jewish “act of terrorism” against British rule 60 years ago this week.

The rightwingers, including Binyamin Netanyahu, the former Prime Minister, are commemorating the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the headquarters of British rule, that killed 92 people and helped to drive the British from Palestine.

They have erected a plaque outside the restored building, and are holding a two-day seminar with speeches and a tour of the hotel by one of the Jewish resistance fighters involved in the attack.

Simon McDonald, the British Ambassador in Tel Aviv, and John Jenkins, the Consul-General in Jerusalem, have written to the municipality, stating: “We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated.”

In particular they demanded the removal of the plaque that pays tribute to the Irgun, the Jewish resistance branch headed by Menachem Begin, the future Prime Minister, which carried out the attack on July 22, 1946.

The plaque presents as fact the Irgun’s claim that people died because the British ignored warning calls. “For reasons known only to the British, the hotel was not evacuated,” it states.

Mr McDonald and Dr Jenkins denied that the British had been warned, adding that even if they had “this does not absolve those who planted the bomb from responsibility for the deaths”. On Monday city officials agreed to remove the language deemed offensive from the blue sign hanging on the hotel’s gates, though that had not been done shortly before it was unveiled last night.

It seems to me that the biggest change in language is that the number of persons who died moved from 91 to 92.

That the Times uses words like 'presents as fact' and that McDonald and Jenkins deny facts that are proven after all these years is absurd.

The facts remain:

The British chose to use the King David Hotel as their military installation. Fewer than 60 of the 200 rooms were used by civilians.

The British chose the King David for its central location and because it was easy to guard. They built a military communications center in the hotel basement and, for security reasons, added a side entrance linking the building to an army camp south of the hotel.

The strike force left in a van loaded with seven milk-churns, each containing 50 kilograms of explosives and special detonators. The commander of the operation, Yisrael Levi (Gidon), rode in the van dressed as a Sudanese waiter, while his deputy, Heinrich Reinhold (Yanai), and the other members of the unit, were dressed as Arabs. The van drove through the streets of Jerusalem, its tarpaulin cover concealing the milk-churns and the passengers, and halted at the side entrance of the hotel, through which foodstuffs were brought into the basement 'La Regence' restaurant. The fighters easily overcame the guards by the gate and hastened to the basement, where they searched all the rooms, and assembled the workers in the restaurant kitchen. They then returned to the van, brought the milk-churns into the restaurant, and placed them beside the supporting pillars . Gidon set the time fuses for 30 minutes, and ordered his men to leave. The staff gathered in the kitchen were told to leave the building 10 minutes later to avoid injury.

After exiting the hotel, Gidon summoned two women fighters who were waiting nearby, and ordered them to carry out their mission. They ran over to a nearby telephone booth, and delivered the following message to the hotel telephone operator and to the editorial office of the Palestine Post:

URGENT

I am speaking on behalf of the Hebrew underground.
We have placed an explosive device in the hotel.
Evacuate it at once - you have been warned.

They also delivered a telephone warning to the French Consulate, adjacent to the hotel, to open their windows to prevent blast damage. The telephone messages were intended to prevent casualties.

Some 25 minutes after the telephone calls, a shattering explosion shook Jerusalem, and reverberated at a great distance. The entire southern wing of the King David Hotel - all seven storeys - was totally destroyed. For reasons unclear, the staff of the government secretariat and the military command remained in their rooms. Some of them were unaware of events, and others were not permitted to leave the building, thus accounting for the large number of victims trapped in the debris.

At first, the Mandatory government denied having received a telephone warning, but testimony submitted to the interrogating judge made it clear beyond a doubt that such a warning had in fact been given. Moreover, the Palestine Post telephone operator attested on oath to the police that, immediately after receiving the telephone message, she had telephoned the duty officer at the police station. The French Consulate staff opened their windows as they had been told to by the anonymous woman who telephoned them, and this was further evidence of the warning.

At the request of the Haganah, the Irgun issued a leaflet accepting responsibility for the operation. It stated, among other things:
The telephone warnings were given at 12:10-12:15. And if it is true, as the British liars have announced, that the explosion occurred at 12:37, they still had 22 minutes at their disposal in order to evacuate the building of its residents and workers.
Therefore responsibility for loss of life among civilians rests solely with them.

What group of terrorists in this modern world ever gives advance notice to people who could be harmed? None. Yet Israelis today leaflet Lebanon in warning, and in 1946 and 1947 used leaflets, phone calls, and bullhorns to announce themselves and make clear a way to safety. So much for being terrorists.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

You missed the other baby carriage that the Palestinian "soldier" rolled AT the Israeli... you know, the one with the bomb in it (duct-taped to the baby).

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Assuming, then, that a violent conflict has "good guys" and "bad guys" (of course, some conflicts will have "bad guys" on both sides), are the "bad guys" always terrorists? Is it possible to have "bad guys" in a violent conflict that aren't terrorists? If so, example? Are there examples of a violent conflict that had "good guys" on both sides?


Works for me. Of course, you'd need some sort of international body where such a consensus could be reached, and would have to be prepared to accept the fact if they did determine that your elected leaders (or those of your allies) were terrorists.

You missed the part in my post where the Nazis commited acts of terrorism against Jews, homosexuals, and ethnic minorities in the 20s and 30s, long before they actually came into power. Your whitewash technique doesn't work here. It's easy to compare the Palestinians to Nazis, even all the way down to using the same scapegoat.

It's interesting how you continue to try and validate the behavior of the Palestinians, though you are being much more subtle about it than most.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Give me a freaking break.

You're crazy.

The Palestinians are the ones who arm small children with bombs and teach them that they should be bomb-carriers to kill Jews. THAT IS THE POINT OF THE CARICATURE, PENDERGAST.

It's WRONG to involve ANY babies in ANY war..."get it" now, Pendergast? THAT IS THE POINT. The "babies" in the cartoon represent not only babies...but also children...including the children that are turned into suicide bombers by Palestinians.

Do you "get it" now?

By the way, if you're so pro-life, when was the last time you marched for pro-Life? I marched with our local church about 6 months ago in a peaceful march...with my children...one of whom is a baby...and I'm expecting another baby soon also.

Or are you an armchair activist?

The guy who sits in front of the television with a bag of potato chips watching a show on Save the Whales who feebly says, "I must...I must...I must save the whales! Er...well...maybe tomorrow."

Cody,

My response to you was not about the caricature, but at your own answer about Israeli babies versus Lebanese. Stop that nonsense of yours. I may be crazy, but you rather express yourself incoherently, or in a very prejudicial way.

For all I know the caricature is likely to be right, as far as terrorism is concerned.

What is wrong is when you say that Palestinians use babies for terrorist acts.

I hope you meant "terrorists", rather than the whole group of Palestinians... Oh but then, Palestinians do not exist in your mind, so they are nobodies... Which ius exactly what they are fighting for; recognition. But that cannot work in your mind, considering a Rabbi, "friend of yours" says they don't exist.

Oh yes... and the Israeli soldier is still shooting towards the baby in that caricature.

As cartoons cary meaning, they are also very simplistic, and I rarely use them to make a point, because they are too often unidimensional. But if that is your preferred way of getting knowledge, I sugget you speak to Jews, Conservatives, and rich Christians; avoid Muslim, and especially those claiming they are Palestinians, because, you know, and as you clearly stated here, Palestinians don't exist but they are all terrorists.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

A soldier of Palestine? How does a non-existent state with a non-existent army have soldiers?

[TETENAL]

Why Israel's Reaction is Right

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...428245,00.html

A very interesting opinion which I suggest for reading.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Troll

A soldier of Palestine? How does a non-existent state with a non-existent army have soldiers?

You know, the ones making attacks on Israel.

BTW HAMAS does indeed have a military side.

And sad part about that pic, is, it's the truth and you know it.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

You missed the part in my post where the Nazis commited acts of terrorism against Jews, homosexuals, and ethnic minorities in the 20s and 30s, long before they actually came into power. Your whitewash technique doesn't work here. It's easy to compare the Palestinians to Nazis, even all the way down to using the same scapegoat.

It's interesting how you continue to try and validate the behavior of the Palestinians, though you are being much more subtle about it than most.

Not at all. I'm just trying to understand how you would define "terrorists". I find it troubling the concept of selectively holding people responsible for the actions of their elected government.

And, I noticed you dodged my questions. Are the "bad guys" in any conflict the "terrorists"? And is a conflict always bad vs. good and bad vs. bad. Is it possible to have a conflict that is good vs. good?

[yakkiebah]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Not at all. I'm just trying to understand how you would define "terrorists". I find it troubling the concept of selectively holding people responsible for the actions of their elected government.

And, I noticed you dodged my questions. Are the "bad guys" in any conflict the "terrorists"? And is a conflict always bad vs. good and bad vs. bad. Is it possible to have a conflict that is good vs. good?

Maybe this will help you understand terrorists a bit better: 3 former terrorists talk about their culture

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

It's interesting how you continue to try and validate the behavior of the Palestinians, though you are being much more subtle about it than most.

I think you are mistaking my desire to see all people treated equally as subtle support for Palestinian terrorists. I think I've been quite clear in my opinion that the Palestinians made a bad decision by electing Hamas. And I agree with you that electors could be held responsible for their election decisions, but I fear that could be extended to ALL electors and make civilians of democratic countries legitimate military targets.

[Wiskedjak]

d-p

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Troll

A soldier of Palestine? How does a non-existent state with a non-existent army have soldiers?

She meant "rogue terrorist", sorry for the confusion.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Not at all. I'm just trying to understand how you would define "terrorists". I find it troubling the concept of selectively holding people responsible for the actions of their elected government.

And, I noticed you dodged my questions. Are the "bad guys" in any conflict the "terrorists"? And is a conflict always bad vs. good and bad vs. bad. Is it possible to have a conflict that is good vs. good?

"Terrorist: a radical who employs terror as a political weapon."

I guess I'd have to say that, yes, in these types of conflicts, the bad guys are terrorists. Mostly due to the tactics they employ and the methods they use.


http://www.answers.com/topic/terrorism

terrorism, the threat or use of violence, often against the civilian population, to achieve political or social ends, to intimidate opponents, or to publicize grievances. The term dates from the Reign of Terror (1793–94) in the French Revolution but has taken on additional meaning in the 20th cent. Terrorism involves activities such as assassinations, bombings, random killings, and hijackings. Used for political, not military, purposes, and most typically by groups too weak to mount open assaults, it is a modern tool of the alienated, and its psychological impact on the public has increased because of extensive coverage by the media. Political terrorism also may be part of a government campaign to eliminate the opposition, as under Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and others, or may be part of a revolutionary effort to overthrow a regime. Terrorist attacks also are now a common tactic in guerrilla warfare. Governments find attacks by terrorist groups difficult to prevent; international agreements to tighten borders or return terrorists for trial may offer some deterrence.

Terrorism reaches back to ancient Greece and has occurred throughout history. Terrorism by radicals (of both the left and right) and by nationalists became widespread after World War II. Since the late 20th cent. acts of terrorism have been associated with the Italian Red Brigades, the Irish Republican Army, the Palestine Liberation Organization, Peru's Shining Path, Sri Lanka's Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, the Weathermen and some members of U.S. “militia” organizations, among many groups. Religiously inspired terrrorism has also occurred, such as that of extremist Christian opponents of abortion in the United States; of extremist Muslims associated with Hamas, Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda, and other organizations; of extremist Sikhs in India; and of Japan's Aum Shinrikyo, who released nerve gas in Tokyo's subway system (1995).

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

That picture you posted reminded me of something, what was it again? Damn, think, think, think, ah now I got it:

Israelis accused of 'human shields' tactic
By Lucy Williamson
BBC News, Gaza

The Israeli army has been accused of using Palestinian civilians as human shields in an operation in northern Gaza.

According to the Israeli human rights group, B'tselem, six civilians including two minors were subjected to the illegal tactic during an incursion into the town of Beit Hanoun last week.

Hazem Ali outside his house in Gaza, Beit Hanoun
Hazem Ali says he was subjected to a terrifying 12-hour ordeal
There are piles of rubble leading up to the hole in Hazem Ali's house.

It's a week since Israel came into Beit Hanoun, but the gash in the side of his house is still raw, the soft inside of family life still visible through the lumps of concrete hanging from the wall. A broken bed; a few girders dripping onto it; an elegant wardrobe still standing against the back wall.

It was soon after dawn when the Israeli army bulldozed their way in. Hazem was still sleeping, taking a break from his job as an engineer with the local Palestinian news agency.

'Blindfolded'

It was his mother who met them in the hallway, Israeli soldiers in a Palestinian home. Behind her, Hazem and his two brothers emerged, one by one.

The three brothers were blindfolded, says Hazem, and their hands tied behind their backs. He shows me the wounds on his wrists from the plastic handcuffs - still sore and infected, but beginning to heal over.

He shows me where the soldiers positioned them: outside the entrance to his flat on the third floor, in the stairwell, facing down the steps.

wrist wound
The wounds are healing
"I think they put us here because they were expecting suiciders to come into the flat because none of the soldiers were on the stairs - they were all inside the flat. They put us here so we'll be shot first."

Inside the flat, the soldiers punched holes in the walls of his living room, and bedroom. Through them, snipers exchanged fire with Palestinian militants. Hazem and his brothers heard it all, but could see nothing.

Hazem says he had little idea at the time exactly how long he was kept there. All he remembers was listening to the heavy gunfire around him, and counting the calls to prayer as they echoed over the area: one at lunchtime, one at tea-time, and one in the evening as the sun set. Twelve hours in all.

He says he expected to die any second. He still can't understand why, as civilians, they couldn't be kept in a room somewhere inside the house, where they would have been safer. But they put us in the middle of the clashes, he says. "There was no need for that."

Court outlawed tactic

Allegations over Israel's use of human shields have surfaced before. The last time they made headlines was during Operation Defensive Shield in the West Bank town of Jenin, four years ago.


This was a very blatant violation of the prohibition of the use of human shields
Yekhezel Lain, B'tselem
The army denied its personnel systematically used civilians as human shields during that operation, but it did issue an order outlawing the practice. As did the Israeli High Court.

But Yekhezel Lain, research director with the Israeli human rights group B'tselem says they are worried those guarantees are now being eroded. He says the cases in Beit Hanoun last week are the first of their kind since the High Court decision.

"This was a very blatant violation of the prohibition of the use of human shields," he tells me. "It was just soldiers hiding behind the back of civilians who were held with force in their homes."

B'tselem says it is investigating reports of other, similar incidents in Gaza during the past month. And it is worried that - having withdrawn from Gaza last year - the Israeli army may see the area as distinct from other Palestinian Territories.

The group is concerned about Israel establishing different rules in the case of the Gaza Strip where according to the state, there is no occupation any more - it's only a state of war, or armed conflict. The human rights group does not believe there is a difference when it comes to the protection of civilians.

The IDF told the BBC the claims in Beit Hanoun were being investigated, and that its soldiers were obliged to act in accordance with moral principles and the rules of engagement. Any misconduct, they said, would be looked into.

As he waits for news of his case in Beit Hanoun, Hazem Ali has got the builders in to fill the holes in his flat, re-glaze his windows and repair as much of the damage as he can.

His wife, meanwhile, is preparing for the birth of their first child. She is half Egyptian, and has been asking Hazem to move out of the Gaza Strip for months now. But he refuses to leave. There's no running away from Gaza, he says.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5212870.stm

Taliesin

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Abe is overly paranoid, as are some others here. You will see, eventually.

Fixed.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

"Terrorist: a radical who employs terror as a political weapon."

LOL. If they had had you around at the discussions on a Terrorism Convention, they could have saved a lot of grief. Hours of discussion that eventually amounted to nought over the definition of "terrorism" and all this time, you had the answer! It must be such a pleasure to live in your binary world where "they" are the baddies, you are the goodies and every other decision or idea is reduced to a dichotomy. I would probably like your world. For like an hour, which is about my tolerance for escapism.

[Monique]

You know what Israel can level the entire country of Lebanon and I will never be outraged they deserve it after harbouring terrorists all this time.

[Y3a]

I wonder how many Iraqi weapons that hezbollocks still have?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Troll

LOL. If they had had you around at the discussions on a Terrorism Convention, they could have saved a lot of grief. Hours of discussion that eventually amounted to nought over the definition of "terrorism" and all this time, you had the answer! It must be such a pleasure to live in your binary world where "they" are the baddies, you are the goodies and every other decision or idea is reduced to a dichotomy. I would probably like your world. For like an hour, which is about my tolerance for escapism.

Yup, it's great not to be conflicted or inanely PC. Just think, if you, or they, knew how to open a dictionary, you'd have the answer too! Guess it never occured to you. Can't say that I'm surprised.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

"Terrorist: a radical who employs terror as a political weapon."

A very self-serving definition, I think. Does it mean a "moderate" who employs terror as a political weapon isn't a terrorist?

A real definition of terrorist: one who uses terrorism.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

A very self-serving definition, I think. Does it mean a "moderate" who employs terror as a political weapon isn't a terrorist?

A real definition of terrorist: one who uses terrorism.

Blame WordNet, it's their definition.

Besides, a person who uses terror as a political weapon couldn't be classified as a "moderate". That's the antithesis of moderation.

[Cody Dawg]

WATCH THIS VIDEO I PUT UP ONLINE - PALESTINIAN AMBULANCE IN ISRAEL

Then you pro-Palestinian people who defend the Palestinians can try to explain to the rest of us how it is that the Palestinians do not use babies and children in their suicide bombings.

Pendergast

What is wrong is when you say that Palestinians use babies for terrorist acts.

THAT MEANS YOU PENDERGAST - NOTICE THAT THE WOMAN *IS* CARRYING A BABY



What do you have to say now Pendergast, eh?

[SSharon]

Nice video Cody,
Before people complain that Israel only searches Palestinian ambulances, they actually search Every ambulance at the entrance to each hospital.

[Sky Captain]

An American, an Israeli and a Palestinian walk into a bar.















BOOM! The bar explodes.

[Cody Dawg]

Both of those posts ^^^ are great.



(Sky Captain, my husband likes those "_____ walks into a bar..." jokes...can't wait to tell him that one The one he tells a lot is, "A horse walks into a bar and the bartender says, 'Why the long face?'" )

[bstone]

Originally Posted by SSharon

Nice video Cody,
Before people complain that Israel only searches Palestinian ambulances, they actually search Every ambulance at the entrance to each hospital.

It's true. SSharon and I are both EMTs who have spent lots of time in Israel.

I have to go put on my uniform. I have an overnight ambulance shift (for real).

[Cody Dawg]

Wow!

props to you SSharon and bstone.

Stay safe.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

WATCH THIS VIDEO I PUT UP ONLINE - PALESTINIAN AMBULANCE IN ISRAEL

Then you pro-Palestinian people who defend the Palestinians can try to explain to the rest of us how it is that the Palestinians do not use babies and children in their suicide bombings.



THAT MEANS YOU PENDERGAST - NOTICE THAT THE WOMAN *IS* CARRYING A BABY



What do you have to say now Pendergast, eh?

She may be Palestinian, but she is most and foremost a terrorist.

Remember that as per vmarks, there are Palestinians living in Israel as peaceful citizens. That is what you don't get yet.

There are no "terrorist nations". There are terrorists belonging to a nation. That is completely different.

[Cody Dawg]

No YOU don't get out of that easily.

YOU SAID THAT PALESTINIANS DO NOT USE THEIR BABIES IN TERRORIST ACTIVITIES AND YOU WERE AND ARE WRONG SINCE THERE IS A REAL VIDEO SHOWING EXACTLY WHAT YOU DENIED.



Can't admit that you're wrong, Pendergast?

That's okay. The rest of us noted your refusal to acknowledge your error and it goes to your lack of credibility - since you don't admit that you were mistaken.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Pendergast

She may be Palestinian, but she is most and foremost a terrorist.

Remember that as per vmarks, there are Palestinians living in Israel as peaceful citizens. That is what you don't get yet.

There are no "terrorist nations". There are terrorists belonging to a nation. That is completely different.

Gasp. I even worked with some while I was living in Haifa.
I think everyone accepts that there are many peaceful citizens, but like with a rev. a machine everyone focuses on the defects.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

No YOU don't get out of that easily.

YOU SAID THAT PALESTINIANS DO NOT USE THEIR BABIES IN TERRORIST ACTIVITIES AND YOU WERE AND ARE WRONG SINCE THERE IS A REAL VIDEO SHOWING EXACTLY WHAT YOU DENIED.



Can't admit that you're wrong, Pendergast?

That's okay. The rest of us noted your refusal to acknowledge your error and it goes to your lack of credibility - since you don't admit that you were mistaken.

I will do one last effort, because in the end, it is amusing.

There are Palestinians who are terrorists: true
All Palestinians are terrorists: false
All terrorists are Palestinians: false
Some mothers are Palestinians: true
All Palestinians are mothers: false
Some mothers are terrorists: true
All terrorists are mothers: false
All Palestinian mothers are terrorists: false
Some mothers who are Palestinians are also terrorists: true
All Palestinians who are mothers have children: true
All terrorists who are Palestinians and mothers and used their children in terrorist acts are terrorists: true
All Palestinian mothers with children are terrorists: false


Hope this helps, sincerily,

P.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by SSharon

Gasp. I even worked with some while I was living in Haifa.
I think everyone accepts that there are many peaceful citizens, but like with a rev. a machine everyone focuses on the defects.

True; a few bad apples gets some people to generalize to the whole population.

It is clear that as per Cody Dawg, all Palestinians are terrorists.

[Cody Dawg]

No, Pendergast.

YOU SAID THAT PALESTINIANS DO NOT USE BABIES IN TERRORIST ACTIVITIES.

I showed you a video that CLEARLY shows a baby being used in a terrorist activity.

Why don't you admit that you were wrong?

You didn't say, "SOME Palestinians MAY use babies in terrorist activities."

You said, "PALESTINIANS DO NOT USE BABIES IN TERRORIST ACTIVITIES."

Therefore, YOU are the one that IS in the wrong.

Next time YOU should be a little more clear on what you mean or do not mean.

The fact is that you said something wrong (and silly) and now you are backpeddling and trying to make it seem as if I said something that I did not: I did NOT say that all Palestinians are terrorists.

And since we're on that track, show all of us here at MacNN where I SPECIFICALLY said, "All Palestinians are terrorists." Let's see the link to the direct quote where I SPECIFICALLY said that.

Again, it will be more Pendergast spinning (is that all you do? Are you Rumpelstiltskin or something of MacNN?) about what you did or did not say...the fact is that you cannot face the fact that YOU_ARE_WRONG.

[Cody Dawg]

Pendergast

There are Palestinians who are terrorists: true
All Palestinians are terrorists: false
All terrorists are Palestinians: false
Some mothers are Palestinians: true
All Palestinians are mothers: false
Some mothers are terrorists: true
All terrorists are mothers: false
All Palestinian mothers are terrorists: false
Some mothers who are Palestinians are also terrorists: true
All Palestinians who are mothers have children: true
All terrorists who are Palestinians and mothers and used their children in terrorist acts are terrorists: true
All Palestinian mothers with children are terrorists: false

Didn't you forget something?

Didn't you forget

No Palestinians use babies in terrorist activities

Because that's what you said up above!





It's okay, Pendergast...it's just more of your spinzone.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Didn't you forget something?

Didn't you forget



Because that's what you said up above!





It's okay, Pendergast...it's just more of your spinzone.

I apologize Cody. I will make it clear again:

All Palestinians are terrorists: false
All terrorists are Palestinians: false

I am sorry that puting things clearer is unfortunately impossible. I think I have put every effort to make you understand that your point of view is dramatically misguided, and you can't see the basic logical mistake you build on, which is that all Palestinians are terrorists.

I will not post further in this thread, and let you conclude as you wish.

[itai195]

It's threads like this that make MacNN so special