[goMac]

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984 

ITMS movies are "near DVD-quality, 640-by-480-pixel video"
Apple

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding this but any movie I buy at the itunes store to play on the apple tv will be playing at "near DVD-quality, 640-by-480-pixel video". Did I misunderstand this?

I think he just misunderstood what you were saying. (Either that, or he was subtly suggesting you pirate movies at 720p and feed them to your AppleTV)

[residentEvil]

apple has 720p programming available...notice i didn't say movies, i said programming.

give it oh, say...2 1/2 weeks and you will see 720p movies available

[goMac]

Originally Posted by residentEvil 

apple has 720p programming available...notice i didn't say movies, i said programming.

give it oh, say...2 1/2 weeks and you will see 720p movies available

They even have 1080p content available.

[OAW]

Regarding the "Why doesn't AppleTV have DVR functionality debate?" .....

Channel tuning

As has been mentioned before, the biggest challenge here is tuning to a specific channel. IR and RF blasters are a hack. Plain and simple. The cable and satellite boxes are proprietary. And you need them to gain access to the content. Such workarounds might be functional once you get it all setup right, but it is far cry from the "plug it in, turn it on, and it just works" simplicity that Apple is going for.

Believe you me, standalone DVRs suck for this very reason. And yes I'll say it ... that includes Tivo. Once you have experienced an integrated set-top box with DVR functionality .... you will know exactly what I'm talking about. Tuning to the right channel is never an issue. And let's not even get into dual tuners! Recording conflicts are virtually non-existent. I have a MS UltimateTV box for DirecTV that I've used for the last 6 or 7 years. I went with it over the standalone Tivo for this very reason. I even chose it over the integrated DirecTV box with Tivo because I preferred the layout and speed of the UI. When the tuners started flaking out I sent it out for repair, because nothing on the market today can touch it IMO. The cable and satellite companies are pushing watered down, crappy little DVRs that are buggy as all get out ... and why? Because they want to charge you every month for every box you have! I suppose I'll give it up once I get an HDTV, but I'll certainly be replacing it with another integrated tuner/DVR box. Or when it finally craps out on me completely. Whichever comes first. Bu there's no way in hell I'll deal with the hassle of some IR/RF blaster foolishness.

Cable Card

This is a technology mandated by Congress that requires the cable companies to offer credit-card sized cards that allow users to access digital cable signals in a set top box other than the ones offered by the cable companies. And as the name implies, it is a cable TV technology only. Satellite services like DirecTV and DISH Network are not involved. Now having said that, the fact of the matter is that the cable companies hate the idea of cable cards. As I mentioned above, they want to charge you by the month for their own set top box. They definitely don't want you to use a cable card in a set top box offered by a third-party. And as the HD Tivo users are finding out, they are notorious for dragging their feet and giving customers the run around when they request them ... especially when they request two for a dual-tuner setup. On top of that, cable cards currently don't support interactive features like Pay Per View. So why would Apple want to get in the middle of this BS? Especially at this stage in the game when the technology is very new, out of Apple's control, being actively resisted by the cable companies, and doesn't even address the millions of people who use satellite services? Furthermore, the entire concept of a DVR goes against Apple's business model of trying to sell (and perhaps one day rent) content at the ITS.

Apple TV as a DVR? Just let it go ...

OAW

[goMac]

Originally Posted by OAW 

And as the name implies, it is a cable TV technology only.

If by cable, you mean comes over a wire, yes, you are correct. FIOS supports CableCard and that comes over fiber. But they're not a "Cable TV" company like Comcast. ATT's IPTV also supports CableCard.

The satellite companies could use CableCard if they wanted, they just aren't mandated to by law.

[residentEvil]

Originally Posted by goMac 

They even have 1080p content available.

yes; but there is no reason to bring that up since the apple tv can only do 720p. i was just saying there is 720p HD content that will work with apple tv. the above poster made is sound like there is only "almost DVD quality" programming.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The satellite companies could use CableCard if they wanted, they just aren't mandated to by law.

And that is precisely why they won't. Why should they when they can make you use (and pay for) one of their own boxes?

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see the Apple TV be a DVR. But until the cable card situation settles down and becomes seamless I won't be holding my breath. Even then there will still be challenges to face. Such as getting the metadata for all one's randomly recorded shows. I suppose most can come from the Guide but how many times does it show no plot synopsis info? And where would the poster frame images come from? It's just very difficult to provide a seamless and good user experience when you have to involve third parties.

OAW

[residentEvil]

Originally Posted by OAW 

...Pay Per View. ...

OAW

see, that is where apple is getting involved i think. you buy it from itunes and you own it. the purchase was made via itunes. you don't need the cablecard et all to do that. if i had the choice of spending $3.99 or $5.99 for one time viewing of a ppv (not counting people who record them) that isn't in HD (not many cable companies are offering HD PPV) or $9.99 for a HD* download from itunes; i'd spend the $9.99

*i really think you will see 720p movies on itunes after NAB.

i won't be doing much ppv once i have my apple tv. doesn't make since. i can own it for just a few dollars more.

[Calimus]

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984 

ITMS movies are "near DVD-quality, 640-by-480-pixel video"
Apple

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding this but any movie I buy at the itunes store to play on the apple tv will be playing at "near DVD-quality, 640-by-480-pixel video". Did I misunderstand this?

DVD resolution is 720×480 so you're losing about 20% of the horizontal resolution of a DVD when you buy a movie on iTunes. It's not a big deal, but those who are into details would notice.

On the other hand, I don't get all the people calling for iTunes to offer HD video. If you had a full 250 gig drive exclusively for you iTunes library you could only hold 20 movies and 75 tv episodes at 720p resolution(a rough estimate). And that is without having to worry about backing all that up. For the numbers of DVDs many people own today to fit on hard drives in HD format we're talking about multiple terrabytes of space. It just isn't practical yet. Perhaps in another 3-4 years when we get above the terrabyte mark for the average hard drive.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by goMac 

They even have 1080p content available.

compressed very aggressively?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

compressed very aggressively?

Not really. Look on their movie trailers page. It's usually 100 megs for a 1080p movie trailer.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by OAW 

As has been mentioned before, the biggest challenge here is tuning to a specific channel. IR and RF blasters are a hack. Plain and simple. The cable and satellite boxes are proprietary. And you need them to gain access to the content. Such workarounds might be functional once you get it all setup right, but it is far cry from the "plug it in, turn it on, and it just works" simplicity that Apple is going for.

Believe you me, standalone DVRs suck for this very reason. And yes I'll say it ... that includes Tivo.

That is entirely untrue. My boyfriend has Comcast digital cable and a Series2 TiVo. They gave him the cable box. After two days of missing programs because the little IR adapter didn't work correctly, I suggested we take the Comast box out of the equation. We now are able to get every channel that is offered on his Comcast plan, with no cable box. TiVo even recognizes when channels are added or removed from the lineup.

It actually wouldn't be particularly complicated to make the AppleTV a DVR, at least as far as cable TV is concerned. I've used a TiVo for several years and have converted others to that DVR - and nobody I know has ever regretted it.

I think the AppleTV is going to be similar to the Mighty Mouse - it's been designed for a very small niche. Either you love it or you see it as a worthless overpriced hunk of glossy white plastic.

[besson3c]

I don't think there is such thing as an RF blaster. Sending a RF signal is a cinch, it is the IR mimicking which would be very difficult to do given the proprietary nature of these remote signals, and the necessity of the smart cards and the like.

[Calimus]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I don't think there is such thing as an RF blaster. Sending a RF signal is a cinch, it is the IR mimicking which would be very difficult to do given the proprietary nature of these remote signals, and the necessity of the smart cards and the like.

An IR blaster is essentially just a universal remote. Of course there is such a thing. It's not a perfect solution, but currently for some DVR setups it is your only option.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Calimus 

An IR blaster is essentially just a universal remote. Of course there is such a thing. It's not a perfect solution, but currently for some DVR setups it is your only option.

Huh?

An IR blaster is required to communicate with set top boxes used for changing channels on Dish style satellite systems, while an RF signal will change channels on other satellite systems as well as cable TV.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

That is entirely untrue. My boyfriend has Comcast digital cable and a Series2 TiVo. They gave him the cable box. After two days of missing programs because the little IR adapter didn't work correctly, I suggested we take the Comast box out of the equation. We now are able to get every channel that is offered on his Comcast plan, with no cable box. TiVo even recognizes when channels are added or removed from the lineup.

It actually wouldn't be particularly complicated to make the AppleTV a DVR, at least as far as cable TV is concerned. I've used a TiVo for several years and have converted others to that DVR - and nobody I know has ever regretted it.

I'm not saying Tivo is bad. I just think a standalone Tivo sucks compares to a Tivo that is integrated with a set-top box. There's a reason why the majority of Tivo customers own a DirecTivo and not the standalone box. As for your boyfriend's experience with Comcast, you are in a way making my point. As you said, "the little IR adapter not working correctly" is exactly what I'm talking about. And as for receiving all the channels without the cable box, I must say that I am skeptical. The regular analog cable channels will come over the wire just fine and can be tuned by any device with a cable TV tuner. But the digital cable channels are scrambled (as are all satellite channels). The entire point of the set-top box is to decrypt these channels and allow them to be viewed (along with milking you for a monthly fee). It's been a minute since I had cable (I ditched them for DirecTV years back), but it is my understanding that there is some overlap between the analog version of some channels and the digital version. Perhaps this is why it appears to be working for your boyfriend?

OAW

[shifuimam]

The standalone TiVo, however, has more features than the DirecTiVo, and for that reason I do like the standalone better - plus, if you change TV services (move, get a good deal, etc.), you can keep the DVR.

I don't know if every channel that we ever watch has an analog and a digital signal, but AFAIK we get every single channel that Comcast provides on their digital lineup, without the decoder box.

High-definition channels ARE scrambled unless you have the box, but I don't know the specifics of whether or not my boyfriend gets every channel. We get all the channels we watch (which includes all the sports channels on the lineup, network TV channels, and all the crap I like - Cartoon Network, Comedy Central, Disney Channel, etc), which is all that really matters. The only reason he even has digital cable was because he signed up for that Triple Play deal to get the VoIP phone along with the cable TV and internet services.

If you have HD digital cable, then you'll at the very least need an HD TiVo. But if you're just getting standard-definition digital cable, then it appears that using a TiVo without the cable box does work just fine. You won't get the overpriced "on-demand" crap that Comcast tries to shove at you, but we don't use that.

I guess it just depends on the person and what setup you want/need...

One interesting thing that we found is that if we connect the cable line to his HDTV without the TiVo, he gets all the network stations in high-def - they're not scrambled, but the channel numbers are different from Comcast's published lineup. We used to get TNT in HD, too, but for some reason that one's gone.

I'll have to check out his setup and see if he gets the full digital lineup without the box.