[nredman]

Originally posted by beb:

The real question is are these real boobs or are they implants?



I want to be the guy who had to glue all those little shiny little bits an...

who cares if they are real or not as for dell dimension vs G5....i dont really care...its all about OS X for me... just my 2 cents.

[Paco500]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Do I use Gb ethernet?
Do I use optical spdiff out?
Do I care how noisy it is?

No.

Do most people use those things? No.

Oh, and by the way... every Dell I've used has been very quiet indeed. Though I can't speak about this one from experience.

I feel your pain, I truly do, but even if you don't use these things, they are there. It's kind of like 4WD on the BMW X5, almost no one takes it off road, but it's there none the less, and it costs money.

Other differences between the G5 and the Dell (not saying you want them, but they are there), sculpted aluminum case VS. cheap plastic. Intelligent, well though out placement of internals in the case, VS. throw everything in a big box, let the cables go everywhere, etc. The ADC system VS. VGA or perhaps DVI. Attractive packaging VS. putting the system in one big box, throw in a bunch of little boxes, styrofoam, air-filled plastic bags, etc until it's secure.

Add that to all the R&D costs that Apple has vs. Dell having the lion's share of their R&D done my MS, Intel, and their competitors (Dell is never the first on the block with the latest and the greatest hardware wise- they let others work out the kinks and then they do it cheaper).

I would love it if Apple had a commodity line of systems, ran OS X but used white-box parts, etc, kind of like a revers lexus. Get people in the door. It would be great for me and many of their customers, but in the long run, it would probably hurt Apple. They could never sell boxes for what Dell does, but they could come close. Now mac people, looking at a $799 G5 in an ugly case, no bells and whistles, but still runs OSX and iLife stuff, would jump on it. You might get some PC folks too. But how many people would continue to buy the high end, high margin stuff? Apple's margins would suck. Could they really capture enough of this low end market to make up for the lost profits of the high-end systems? I have no idea of the number, but lets say they make $200 per G5 and this Dell competing system they make $20 per system. Would they really sell 10 of these for each G5? Probably not.

Premium companies, whatever they be, always strike out when they go cheap. Car analogies are always popular, so think Porche 924 or 914, BMW 318ti, Mercedes 190, Cadillac Cimmaron and Caterra (sp?). All of these models were widely panned, sold horribly and did nothing to increase market share.

Apple's defining characteristic is that it's a premium product. They have to build machines that live up to that designation. All the bells and whistles are necessary for the image, even if you don't use them. BMW and Mercedes aren't the fastest, best handling or most reliable cars out there- they can always be beaten by somebody cheaper. But they are premium, and that makes them desirable.

That being said, I would love a Mac at a Dell price, and I feel your pain- the situation seems especially bad over seas.

Take this as solace- you live in an amazing place with wild exotic creatures and wondrous landscapes, and here in the US, the Terminator is the front runner for Governor of our most populace state- do you really have it so bad?

[proton]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Oh, and by the way... every Dell I've used has been very quiet indeed. Though I can't speak about this one from experience.

You've never used a Dell server then.

Try a PowerEdge 2400 sometime (don't think they still sell them though). That thing sounds like a Jet engine, even comparing it to an Xserve (when people were complaining they were loud).

- proton

[Adam Betts]

Cipher always have a thing against OS X so it's not surprising.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by beb:
The real question is are these real boobs or are they implants?

Implants.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Paco500:
BMW and Mercedes aren't the fastest, best handling or most reliable cars out there

Hate to go O/T and correct you but the M3 is one of the best handling cars on the planet. The rest of the previous-to-current 3/5 series handle pretty well too...

But they still don't run OS X.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Cipher always have a thing against OS X so it's not surprising.

Oh shut up, you bloody tool.

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Hate to go O/T and correct you but the M3 is one of the best handling cars on the planet. The rest of the previous-to-current 3/5 series handle pretty well too...

But they still don't run OS X.

Nope, only the Ford LTD does (Men in Black reference... insert image here)

(but then, logically, wouldn't the Merc in MIB2?)

Originally posted by proton:
You've never used a Dell server then.

Try a PowerEdge 2400 sometime (don't think they still sell them though). That thing sounds like a Jet engine, even comparing it to an Xserve (when people were complaining they were loud).

- proton

I think we have one (it's a PowerEdge of some sort) at work... it gets drowned out by the Acer (G900?) and the Xserve

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Paco500:
I feel your pain, I truly do, but even if you don't use these things, they are there. It's kind of like 4WD on the BMW X5, almost no one takes it off road, but it's there none the less, and it costs money.

Other differences between the G5 and the Dell (not saying you want them, but they are there), sculpted aluminum case VS. cheap plastic. Intelligent, well though out placement of internals in the case, VS. throw everything in a big box, let the cables go everywhere, etc. The ADC system VS. VGA or perhaps DVI. Attractive packaging VS. putting the system in one big box, throw in a bunch of little boxes, styrofoam, air-filled plastic bags, etc until it's secure.

Add that to all the R&D costs that Apple has vs. Dell having the lion's share of their R&D done my MS, Intel, and their competitors (Dell is never the first on the block with the latest and the greatest hardware wise- they let others work out the kinks and then they do it cheaper).

I would love it if Apple had a commodity line of systems, ran OS X but used white-box parts, etc, kind of like a revers lexus. Get people in the door. It would be great for me and many of their customers, but in the long run, it would probably hurt Apple. They could never sell boxes for what Dell does, but they could come close. Now mac people, looking at a $799 G5 in an ugly case, no bells and whistles, but still runs OSX and iLife stuff, would jump on it. You might get some PC folks too. But how many people would continue to buy the high end, high margin stuff? Apple's margins would suck. Could they really capture enough of this low end market to make up for the lost profits of the high-end systems? I have no idea of the number, but lets say they make $200 per G5 and this Dell competing system they make $20 per system. Would they really sell 10 of these for each G5? Probably not.

Premium companies, whatever they be, always strike out when they go cheap. Car analogies are always popular, so think Porche 924 or 914, BMW 318ti, Mercedes 190, Cadillac Cimmaron and Caterra (sp?). All of these models were widely panned, sold horribly and did nothing to increase market share.

Apple's defining characteristic is that it's a premium product. They have to build machines that live up to that designation. All the bells and whistles are necessary for the image, even if you don't use them. BMW and Mercedes aren't the fastest, best handling or most reliable cars out there- they can always be beaten by somebody cheaper. But they are premium, and that makes them desirable.

That being said, I would love a Mac at a Dell price, and I feel your pain- the situation seems especially bad over seas.

Take this as solace- you live in an amazing place with wild exotic creatures and wondrous landscapes, and here in the US, the Terminator is the front runner for Governor of our most populace state- do you really have it so bad?

...but if you don't want an X5, you get a 5 series instead... we don't have that luxury (bad pun).

� aluminium vs. plastic - no concern to me
�_good internal design vs. bad - a good thing, definately
�_adv vs. vga/dvi - I hate adc, truly
�_attractive packaging vs. not so - bonus

Are those 3 things the Dell does not have worth $2000 or so? (when you consider the fact that the Dell is better spec'd, the difference would be over $2000). I know they were just examples, but you get my point.

LMAO re. Arnie, though - that does make me feel better

...a little. John Howard, Arnie... John Howard, Arnie... damn. I think I'd rather Keanu Reeves for Prime Minister than Howard

I do see your point... but I hope you also see mine.

[Nicko]

Originally posted by beb:
Nah, Apple will be bought by Sony (if they have any brains) who will then use a stripped down version of OS X for the Playstation 3 and the (OS X marketshare, not mac marketshare) will quadruple overnight. The IBM move then makes perfect sense.

As for the Powermac G5s, they are a bit pricey but they beat the living crap outa any P4 system versus performance.

The real question is are these real boobs or are they implants?



I want to be the guy who had to glue all those little shiny little bits an...

...I suddenly have the urge to read WIRED

[Nicko]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
...but if you don't want an X5, you get a 5 series instead... we don't have that luxury (bad pun).

� aluminium vs. plastic - no concern to me
�_good internal design vs. bad - a good thing, definately
�_adv vs. vga/dvi - I hate adc, truly
�_attractive packaging vs. not so - bonus

Are those 3 things the Dell does not have worth $2000 or so? (when you consider the fact that the Dell is better spec'd, the difference would be over $2000). I know they were just examples, but you get my point.

LMAO re. Arnie, though - that does make me feel better

...a little. John Howard, Arnie... John Howard, Arnie... damn. I think I'd rather Keanu Reeves for Prime Minister than Howard

I do see your point... but I hope you also see mine.

You forgot to mention that you don't get OSX on that dell

The fact is, if you want a mac you gotta pay for what a mac costs, you don't have to like it .

In the same vein, when I buy my new laptop, it will be an IBM Thinkpad. Sure I could get a cheaper dell or HP, but I am willing to pay a premium for quality. Same goes for mac. Not to mention that you get those cool Apple logo car decals in the box! I love those.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by beb:
I want to be the guy who had to glue all those little shiny little bits on...

Remember those ads where the girls lying on the beach towel had the Budweiser logo painted over them? An ex-brother-in-law of mine was a member of the team that got to do the painting. He said it was exciting for about ten minutes.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Nope, only the Ford LTD does (Men in Black reference... insert image here)

(but then, logically, wouldn't the Merc in MIB2?)

Logic dictates that this is a possibility. However, in the real World Merc appears to have gone with some kind of M$ based system (numerous reports about their latest comp control systems shutting down on people for no known reason when they're bahnstorming).

But... Back to the topic...
For the desktop I'd never run anything but OS X (until Linux gets its act together) - so the choice between Dell and Apple isn't an issue. Apple machines are worth the extra simply for the ability to run the OS. As long as Apple doesn't go bump, who cares if they don't increase market share? It ain't broke, don't fix it.

For the small server market, who cares as long as it's reliable and doesn't run M$? No problems with my cheapo IBM x-series machines so far (other than the fact that the system clocks aren't the most accurate).

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Oh shut up, you bloody tool.

You have to attack on people who tell the truth?

[11011001]

Originally posted by Diggory Laycock:
Does it have gigabit ethernet?
Does it have FW 800?
Does it have optical spdiff audio?
Does it have a very quiet cooling system?

The gigabit, firewire, and spidf cards are really cheap to buy. In total you are looking at around 150-200 CAN.

[zigzag]

What Paco said. It'd be nice to have cheaper Macs, and it's a drag that Ozzies have to pay an even bigger premium, but for me the overall experience - OS, packaging, integration, software - is worth the extra $$. It all depends on what you want out of the product. Nothing wrong with a Dell if it suits your needs.

The market share argument has become next to irrelevant. Apple lost that war 15 years ago. All that matters to me is that the company continues to make products that I like.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
You have to attack on people who tell the truth?

I only attack idiots. You more than qualify.

I use OSX every day.

I don't boot back to OS9.

I run it on every system capable of running it, at home.

I'm migrating work to OSX client, after recently migrating all the OS9 servers to OSX Server.

Yep, I hate OSX, don't I?

I fscking wish Internet use was regulated, and stupid people weren't allowed online. Seriously.

We could put you all on some desert island somewhere, and have you fight amongst yourselves for entertainment; yes, perfect. But we wouldn't watch it; the intelligent wouldn't; we'd feed it back to you, and further perpetuate your own violence against each other for the sake of entertainment and fame. Your OWN entertainment and fame.

How devastatingly twisted.

One day...

[JakeTuba]

Originally posted by beb:
...
The real question is are these real boobs or are they implants?
...

Unfortunately, this point is moot as it's painfully obvious she's been digitally doctored and enhanced. It's a sad day when surgical 'perfection' has to be doctored by a digital enthusiast.

And women are getting boob jobs for...???

On a topic note ... (I know, it's a shock, huh?) ... Cipher13 is entitled to an opinion. Maybe Macs don't work as well down under... I'm sure all those games play just as well on that there ole Dell...

(I'm just funnin ya Cipher13)

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by Cipher13:


I only attack idiots. You more than qualify.

I use OSX every day.

I don't boot back to OS9.

I run it on every system capable of running it, at home.

I'm migrating work to OSX client, after recently migrating all the OS9 servers to OSX Server.

Yep, I hate OSX, don't I?

Jeez, get off your high horse

You take what I said and changed it to something bizarre. I didn't say you refused to use OS X or hate it, I simply said that you have a thing against it and most of your previous posts tell that. Most people can agree with me.

BTW, If I'm so idiot, why did you bother replying to me? I thought idiots are worthless and waste of time?

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Jeez, get off your high horse

You take what I said and changed it to something bizarre. I didn't say you refused to use OS X or hate it, I simply said that you have a thing against it and most of your previous posts tell that. Most people can agree with me.

BTW, If I'm so idiot, why did you bother replying to me? I thought idiots are worthless and waste of time?

Most of my posts do not suggest that at all. You have not read most of my posts. You do not know enough to make that statement. Only I do, given that they are my posts. I was there for every one of them.

I didn't change it - you implied it; you've made the comment before, so why should you mean it differently this time? You didn't. You're just looking for a way out now.

Why did I bother? I can't help myself. Same deal with Gabriel Morales, and Superchicken, and so forth... I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.

EDIT: I apologise, I re-read your comment and mine, and I was a little harsh. I should have saved the island comment for somebody more worthy. I'm in a bad mood tonight.

Damn knee-jerk reactions. It's contagious. *cough*

[version]

Anyway, my dual Xeon blows away every model of G4 out there, I wish it didn't, but it does. I prefer X as an OS, but I also quite like windows 2000. I'd love to see Apple get the prices a bit lower on the hardware front though.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
We could put you all on some desert island somewhere, and have you fight amongst yourselves for entertainment; yes, perfect.

Hang on... Didn't we already do that a few hundred years ago?

[Zimphire]

What Cipher means is, the Dell's numbers look better on paper.

Yeah you have to pay more for Macs in Aus than we do.

I had to pay more for my Marshall amp than someone in England does.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Hang on... Didn't we already do that a few hundred years ago?

Didn't turn out quite the way you planned, huh?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
BTW, If I'm so idiot, why did you bother replying to me? I thought idiots are worthless and waste of time?

Don't you know? If you don't agree with Cipher, you are a idiot.

Cipher's rules of debating.

It makes a nice chest pounding sound.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
What Cipher means is, the Dell's numbers look better on paper.

Yeah you have to pay more for Macs in Aus than we do.

I had to pay more for my Marshall amp than someone in England does.

That's not really my problem with it.

The thing is... the specs ARE better, and it's cheaper, and it comes with a monitor. If it wasn't for all of those factors together, it'd be more tolerable.

You have no idea how many people have said to me they won't get a G5 because it doesn't come with a monitor; it's just *another* additional cost.

If the systems were even, and the G5 was more... fine. But not only is it inferior, in many ways, but it's a lot more expensive; the the point where you could buy an iBook with the Dell for the price of a G5.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Don't you know? If you don't agree with Cipher, you are a idiot.

Cipher's rules of debating.

It makes a nice chest pounding sound.

No, maybe because he and I have had that argument before, to which I replied something very similar to the body of my post. Nice work

Oh, and I also apologised, after realising that my comment was a little harsh. But maybe you didn't see that either

[version]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
What Cipher means is, the Dell's numbers look better on paper.

Yeah you have to pay more for Macs in Aus than we do.

I had to pay more for my Marshall amp than someone in England does.

It's the same here in the UK for Macs, we're much more expensive than the States, pretty much sucks. Car prices area joke too, especially compared to the continent, lot of us just go to Germany, pick up a car, and drive it back here, and we're still saving.

Originally posted by 11011001:
The gigabit, firewire, and spidf cards are really cheap to buy. In total you are looking at around 150-200 CAN.

Where?

100BaseT, FW400 are cheap to buy. But I'd like to see where you can get 1000BaseT, FW800, and an SPDIF sound card for $200 CAN.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
That's not really my problem with it.

The thing is... the specs ARE better, and it's cheaper, and it comes with a monitor. If it wasn't for all of those factors together, it'd be more tolerable.

On paper they are. I find in RWP is a lot different than what they put on Paper. Esp when factoring in Windows.

You have to use Windows. Some people don't want to use Windows. So the Dell isn't even a option.

You have no idea how many people have said to me they won't get a G5 because it doesn't come with a monitor; it's just *another* additional cost.

Most people i know that are buying G5s already have a monitor. Most people I know that don't own a computer or monitor wouldn't buy a G5 in the first place.

I have never heard anyone yet say that. Honestly.

Must be a Australian thing.

If the systems were even, and the G5 was more... fine. But not only is it inferior, in many ways, but it's a lot more expensive; the the point where you could buy an iBook with the Dell for the price of a G5.

Inferior TO YOU.

I don't see it as inferior, and I am hardly your atypical Apple apologist/zealot.

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Most of my posts do not suggest that at all. You have not read most of my posts. You do not know enough to make that statement. Only I do, given that they are my posts. I was there for every one of them.

I didn't change it - you implied it; you've made the comment before, so why should you mean it differently this time? You didn't. You're just looking for a way out now.

Why did I bother? I can't help myself. Same deal with Gabriel Morales, and Superchicken, and so forth... I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.

EDIT: I apologise, I re-read your comment and mine, and I was a little harsh. I should have saved the island comment for somebody more worthy. I'm in a bad mood tonight.

Damn knee-jerk reactions. It's contagious. *cough*

Just so you know, I don't really hate you or anything, I just dislike your attitude toward Mac and OS X. Yes they can be expensive but you have to give them some credit for being very high quality and fully-featured. Lower price is always nice but it'd be hard to offer a computer that is as cheap as most PCs without sacrificing the quality they're known for.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by JakeTuba:
Unfortunately, this point is moot as it's painfully obvious she's been digitally doctored and enhanced. It's a sad day when surgical 'perfection' has to be doctored by a digital enthusiast.

While it's clear that the pic is digitally enhanced (or perhaps even completely digital?), the source girl or source mentality has got plastic inserts. Look at the upper boob/body "join" - don't get a join that defined with the real thing (at least not in all the hundreds of thousands of cases I've experienced).

Originally posted by JakeTuba:
And women are getting boob jobs for...???

To make up for lack of brains. If they actually had brains, they'd know that not all guys are into women with huge sacks of plastic strapped to their fronts. Honestly... These days I don't know whether to get the latest Playboy or a Lego catalogue.

Sorry for being O/T again, but boobies are a topic very dear to my heart.

But unfortunately, they still don't run OS X.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
No, maybe because he and I have had that argument before, to which I replied something very similar to the body of my post. Nice work

Oh, and I also apologised, after realising that my comment was a little harsh. But maybe you didn't see that either

No when I replied I didn't see that.

I am talking about your habit of being abusive and talking down to people.

That type of pretentiousness is silly.

There is no need for it.

You apologized? Good. I am proud of you Cipher.

[version]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
That's not really my problem with it.

The thing is... the specs ARE better, and it's cheaper, and it comes with a monitor. If it wasn't for all of those factors together, it'd be more tolerable.

You have no idea how many people have said to me they won't get a G5 because it doesn't come with a monitor; it's just *another* additional cost.

If the systems were even, and the G5 was more... fine. But not only is it inferior, in many ways, but it's a lot more expensive; the the point where you could buy an iBook with the Dell for the price of a G5.

Got to agree with Cipher here. My next machine will be a G5 revb, or whatever it is; but I know I'm paying over the odds for it, and I could get/build a vastly faster PC for the same price.
Also, when it comes to 3D accelerated cards, the PC wins by a mile. Saying that though, the performance hit isn't that big a deal to me when compared to being able to use OS X, I'm not really a speed junkie.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by version:
Got to agree with Cipher here. My next machine will be a G5 revb, or whatever it is; but I know I'm paying over the odds for it, and I could get/build a vastly faster PC for the same price.
Also, when it comes to 3D accelerated cards, the PC wins by a mile. Saying that though, the performance hit isn't that big a deal to me when compared to being able to use OS X, I'm not really a speed junkie.

Most people don't need anything above a 2ghz machine.

Most people don't even need that.

But hey, some people like the numbers on the paper, and the benchmark bragging rights.

It makes their internet penis bigger.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Most people don't need anything above a 2ghz machine.

Most people don't even need that.

But hey, some people like the numbers on the paper, and the benchmark bragging rights.

It makes their internet penis bigger.

Truth. My old man has a 1.7 Athlon XP... Might as well be a 300 P2, 'coz all he does is (1) use Word and (2) invite me over for tea when the bloody thing needs fixing.

[version]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
On paper they are. I find in RWP is a lot different than what they put on Paper. Esp when factoring in Windows.

You have to use Windows. Some people don't want to use Windows. So the Dell isn't even a option.
[/B]

I would take OS X over windows any time of the day, and I do, but I know that my dual xeon system leaves my dual G4 in the dust, in all areas. Running programs like Lightwave, Maya, Photoshop, word, etc. are just so much more faster on the windows machine that it's not funny. That's my real world tests, day in, day out. I'm not saying this as if I have aproblem with it, I don't mind the difference in performance, but I am equally aware of the claims being made by both parties.
I can tolerate windwos, but it's a far cry from X though. I'm hoping the G5 will at least give the sense of power for the price.

[version]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Most people don't need anything above a 2ghz machine.

Most people don't even need that.

But hey, some people like the numbers on the paper, and the benchmark bragging rights.

It makes their internet penis bigger.

LMAO!!!, true Zimphire. That's how I view it, I'm pretty happy to work on a 400mhz pismo for most of the day, and it's just fine. But... in some areas, the speed is needed, such as 3D animation, compositing, and so on. Also, it would be nice to see Apple at least give the sense of comparative development to the PC world, at least to keep the would-be switchers, and so on happy.

[awaspaas]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
It makes their internet penis bigger.

Internet penis, that's freaking great

Just for that, I'm unblocking you.

[kmkkid]

I agree with you Cipher, I'm Canadian, so I too feel your pricing pain.

Come on people, when are you going to see that Apple is robbing mac users blind!? I'd love for someone to actually price how much it would cost to make the G5, then compare to the price Apple wants. I'm willing to bet the profit margin on a single G5 reaches into the hundreds of dollars. Thats insane.



Chris

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by kmkkid:
Come on people, when are you going to see that Apple is robbing mac users blind!?

Apple are NOT ROBBING MAC USERS BLIND. They are a company trying to make a profit in a downturn economy and making a hell of a job of it.

If anything they are robbing you with your eyes wide open.

[kmkkid]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Apple are NOT ROBBING MAC USERS BLIND. They are a company trying to make a profit in a downturn economy and making a hell of a job of it.

If anything they are robbing you with your eyes wide open.

It's just a saying But you must admit their profit margins are way to high. They could survive as a company of they only made $1 profit this year. Most are in the hole and still kicking stong.


Chris

[ambush]

Apple has a big problem with the cost of its machines. It's a known fact. Until they understand it, well their marketshare will continue to lower and lower and lower.

I mean. I don't need this aluminium case and all those fancy things inside.

Give me a freaking G5 cheap ass beige box and I'll buy it a.n.y.t.i.m.e.

[macarita]

if i was in australia or a country where apple's were that much more expensive i would just get the hell out

but really why can't you organise some sort of group buy (or writing steve jobs making your case)or get some major education discount...or something..i would try to look at every alternative.

after this latest ms worm i look on my mac with even more affection.... & pcs...oh well let those that enjoy worry, struggle & grief go for it...osx gives me tons of security & free time..that's why i'm here

[Paco500]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
...but if you don't want an X5, you get a 5 series instead... we don't have that luxury (bad pun).

True, but no BMW made can compete price (or lack of features wise) with any Kia, Huyndai, etc.

� aluminium vs. plastic - no concern to me

I understand, but whether or not it's a concern to you is not really relevant. It's there, it costs more than plastic.

�_good internal design vs. bad - a good thing, definately
�_adv vs. vga/dvi - I hate adc, truly

Again, I understand, but see above. As a side note, what's to hate, other than it sucks to pay extra if you are not using it, what's wrong with it? I hate cables and clutter, so maybe I'm special, but I love it. It may not be universally helpful, but what's to hate?

�_attractive packaging vs. not so - bonus

Are those 3 things the Dell does not have worth $2000 or so? (when you consider the fact that the Dell is better spec'd, the difference would be over $2000). I know they were just examples, but you get my point.

It's not just those 3 things, bur to some, obviously, it will be worth it. As for the Dell being better spec'd, that's not universally true. I think the processor is a bit of a tossup- for pure power the Dell may have a slight edge, but the G5 will most likely prove to be no slouch. The RAM- well there is no denying that. The video card, more RAM, but no ADC, so for those that want ADC, the Mac is better. The Mac has better Specs as far as FW800, system bus, built-in wireless capability and, (I think) serial ATA and PCI-X (does the entry have these?).

But unquestionably, the Dell, by the numbers, gives you more bang for the buck. My point is that although you me and most have no need for all the bells and whistles that come on the mac, they are there and they cost money and at least partially justify the higher cost of the Mac.

LMAO re. Arnie, though - that does make me feel better

...a little. John Howard, Arnie... John Howard, Arnie... damn. I think I'd rather Keanu Reeves for Prime Minister than Howard

I do see your point... but I hope you also see mine.

I see your point completely, and feel your frustration. An not in a patronizing "I feel your pain" Bill Clinton kind of way, this reality frustrates me as well. But every time Apple has tried to grab market share by going low-end, they have lost money and ultimately market share- think performa, think the clones.

[Nicko]

Saying macs cost more than a simularly spec pc is disingenuous . When you buy a mac you are getting more than just computer parts. You are paying for the hardware, the software, and most importantly the elegence in which they combine to create the unique mac experience.

Oh ya, Apple sells at the prices they do because people are willing to pay that much...obviously.

[Link]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Apple are NOT ROBBING MAC USERS BLIND. They are a company trying to make a profit in a downturn economy and making a hell of a job of it.

If anything they are robbing you with your eyes wide open.

Go read the thread about steve jobs making 219 million a year.. realize that it's about 4000 times more then most white collar workers make and tell me this again.

Apple IS robbing mac users blind.. stop being a moron.

BTW: Price differences being so outrageous in other countries are magnified versions of the already rediculous prices on the g5.. face it.. $1999 for a nice machine that still pales in comparison to one that costs $600 less is kinda suckage.

[version]

Originally posted by Link:
Go read the thread about steve jobs making 219 million a year.. realize that it's about 4000 times more then most white collar workers make and tell me this again.

Apple IS robbing mac users blind.. stop being a moron.

BTW: Price differences being so outrageous in other countries are magnified versions of the already rediculous prices on the g5.. face it.. $1999 for a nice machine that still pales in comparison to one that costs $600 less is kinda suckage.

And let's not forget how Apple squeezed resellers into such tiny profit margins by selling them the hardware at ridiculously high prices, that they virtually only broke even on an iMac sale.

I like Macs, I prefer X, but I'm so blind that I don't see how the price difference between a Mac and a PC is just stupid, even though the quality is better, it doesn't justify the higher mark up.

[itomato]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
3599 - 1999 = 1600. Simple.



I can run Unix/Linux on the PC. It doesn't have to be XP.

-------------------

I want to know what the hell Apple charges such an insane premium for.

You just addressed it:

OS X.

You don't need OS X with a PC. Your choices are Windows or one of the "free" OS's. Apple doesn't run around selling multiple-seat licenses to single-seat customers, it doesn't sell it's OS bundled with computers while claiming on one hand that the software included is a $BIGNUM value, while refusing to offer refunds for that value with the other hand.

There's a lot less bullsh_t with an Apple. It's sad that you have to pay for the privelege of cruft-less computing on every level - from viruses to pop-ups, to crappy-ass shareware utilities that will make your dick bigger, your internet faster, and keep prying eyes from seeing your kiddie porn - CLICK OK TO CONTINUE! -

That's what we do. Have you forgotten, Ciph?

[itomato]

Also, as long as Apple continues to market $149 video conferencing cameras, and $129 point updates to it's OS which should only now be out of Beta, only those people will buy.

Steve wants it that way.

There is an air of haute computing with Apple that is a side-effect of Steve Jobs. It was alive and well when the Mac was born, it's what kept NeXT from going anywhere, and it's what creates the BMW-ness of Apple hardware.



The other side effects are well known.

[Svenmagnus]

Originally posted by beb:
Nah, Apple will be bought by Sony (if they have any brains) who will then use a stripped down version of OS X for the Playstation 3 and the (OS X marketshare, not mac marketshare) will quadruple overnight. The IBM move then makes perfect sense.

As for the Powermac G5s, they are a bit pricey but they beat the living crap outa any P4 system versus performance.

The real question is are these real boobs or are they implants?



I want to be the guy who had to glue all those little shiny little bits an...

i didnt do the glue work but i did do the retouching , which was fun