[Eug Wanker]

Xbox 360 instruction manual (PDF)

[Dark Helmet]

I looked at it last night. Nothing exciting in it at all. Actually it is a rather bad manual.

[starman]

Said to be fake on digg.

[Dark Helmet]

Some unboxing porn. No that is not me.

Damn that is one large power adapter

http://www.bitflydesign.com/misc/Xbo..._deballage.avi

[Dark Helmet]

Reviews are starting to trickle out.

So far Kamio is about an 8.5 and Project Gotham Racing is 10/10.

[ort888]

I'm waiting on the perfect Dark review before deciding to get one on launch.

I have a feeling that it isn't going to score very high. I think the Kameo scores are disappointing.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by ort888

I'm waiting on the perfect Dark review before deciding to get one on launch.

I have a feeling that it isn't going to score very high. I think the Kameo scores are disappointing.

I think 8.5 is great for a launch title. Remember how the N64 launched with TWO games? Even the cube launched with Luigi's mansion.

At any rate, PGR seems like it is worth getting on launch.

[ort888]

But one of those games was Mario 64, one of the best and most revolutionary games of all times.

I would trade 100 mediocre titles for another game as groundbreaking and excellent as Mario 64 was in 1997. (or whenever that was)

The cube had a super-crappy launch line-up.

[ort888]

I'm also not a big fan of racing games. So PGR3 isn't going to convince me to buy the system. I will probably get it if I decide to get an Xbox, but it's not going to convince me to spend $400 bucks RIGHT NOW.

I'm looking forward to Halflife 2 on the Xbox more then any of the launch titles. (Unless PD0 ends up being good, but it looks sketchy right now, since it's an official launch title yet not one reviewer actually has a copy of it. That's a bad sign.)

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by ort888

But one of those games was Mario 64, one of the best and most revolutionary games of all times.

I would trade 100 mediocre titles for another game as groundbreaking and excellent as Mario 64 was in 1997. (or whenever that was)

Well in some peoples opinion that is PGR so far. We'll see how perfect dark does.

and I just read a review saying kamino is the best title. Different strokes I guess.

[ort888]

But PGR isn't anything revolutionary at all. It's just a great racing game with incredible graphics. Nothing wrong with that, but it isn't a Mario 64. Mario 64 changed everything.

Mario 64 was the coolest thing I had ever seen and it consumed me for months. I just can't see a racer doing that. Other then graphics, what makes PGR 3 that much better then PGR 2?

[ort888]

Microsoft and Bizarre Creations have fashioned a beautiful, fast-moving racer in a style Xbox gamers are all too familiar with. The game is gorgeous, deep in modes and challenges, and well balanced, even if it's nothing more than a minor leap in gameplay over its predecessor. On the one hand that doesn't bother me a bit. The game wasn't broken before, and now it's more accessible. It's even fatter with modes and online gameplay and challenges, credits, medals, kudos, and trophies than before. On the other hand, there is nothing drastically or even moderately next generation about the racing itself. It handles almost identically to PGR2, the AI balance is similar and the courses and kudos tricks are all in-line with the previous games. There are slight differences, but not many nor enough. Still, as a launch title for Xbox 360? Hell, this is without hesitation on my top five list. It's a no-brainer, must-have launch title.

From the IGN review. Sounds good... but not a system seller for me.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by ort888

But PGR isn't anything revolutionary at all. It's just a great racing game with incredible graphics. Nothing wrong with that, but it isn't a Mario 64. Mario 64 changed everything.

Mario 64 was the coolest thing I had ever seen and it consumed me for months. I just can't see a racer doing that. Other then graphics, what makes PGR 3 that much better then PGR 2?

Well IYO fine. Some people hate mario type games no matter how revolutionary, they rather race cars.

For me I have enjoyed lower rated games like Beyond good and evil more than higher rated ones like Zelda.

If you don't like the launch titles don't touch the system till you do.

For me I will be more than happy with Kamio, PGR and Perfect dark.

I didn't but the PS2 or Xbox until a year after launch.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by ort888

But PGR isn't anything revolutionary at all. It's just a great racing game with incredible graphics.

Tell me, how could you possibly make a realistic driving simulator revolutionary? I think they accomplished it though with the cockpit view. In every other racing game when you go to first person view you only see the road ahead of you, in PGR3 you see the whole cockpit.

"While it is quite difficult to innovate within the racing genre, Bizarre Creations did so in Project Gotham Racing 2 by integrating Xbox Live functionality seamlessly into both the single- and multiplayer experience. With PGR3, innovation continues with aforementioned in-cockpit camera. The developer has rendered the interiors of each vehicle in the game with nearly the same level of detail as their exteriors. Every gauge and dial inside each car not only looks as it would from the perspective of the driver's seat, but also function as the actual tachometers you'll be watching as you keep an eye on your speed and RPMs. Additionally, the player can also control the driver's view independently of the vehicle's vector; as such, rear-view and side mirrors can be viewed with a quick nudge of the right analog stick. Before long, I was able to drive any vehicle using it's dashboard indicators and its mirrors without acknowledging the HUD at all. Playing from this perspective makes for a far more immersive experience and, for perhaps the first time, we have true 180 degree situational awareness behind a virtual dashboard. After playing PGR3 exclusively from this perspective, it will be downright difficult to play another driving game from any other camera angle again. In fact, PGR3 is a single-handed challenge to developers to really push immersion in future racing games. If you've ever hoped for a true in-car experience, the time is now with PGR3."

[Jim Paradise]

*edit* Wrong thread.

[ort888]

Don't get me wrong, it looks great and there is an audience for it. I like racing games. They can be fun. It's just not my favorite genre. Especially more realistic ones.

All I'm saying, is that it isn't revolutionary. It's PG2 with better graphics. And again, there is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't need to do anything revolutionary... it just has to be fun.

But to compare it to Mario 64 and say that it is as good of a launch title in 2005 as Mario was in 1996 is way off. Mario 64 was one of those special games that only comes around once a generation. The kind of games kids will probably be reading about in text books 30 years from now. PGR3 will be forgotten as soon as PGR4 comes out.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by ort888

All I'm saying, is that it isn't revolutionary. It's PG2 with better graphics. And again, there is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't need to do anything revolutionary... it just has to be fun.

But to compare it to Mario 64 and say that it is as good of a launch title in 2005 as Mario was in 1996 is way off. Mario 64 was one of those special games that only comes around once a generation. The kind of games kids will probably be reading about in text books 30 years from now. PGR3 will be forgotten as soon as PGR4 comes out.

Over the past year Nintendo has been trying to drill in everyone's head that the game industry is broken and in order to fix it each game has to be totally revolutionary to be fun.

This is bull. Games are selling incredibly well now better than ever. Nintendo is confusing "different" and "revolutionary".

ALL of my fav games are not "revolutionary". Most are just different somehow. Halo was not revolutionary, just did some things well yet it sells like hotcakes.

I think Kameo will do some things that are fresh and fun that will make it highly enjoyable.

[starman]

I was debating on hooking the 360 to my Dell 2405, and then I saw these pics:

http://g-prime.net/x360/

There's no index.html so you'll have to click the links individually.

The problem is that the 2405 is hooked up to my PC already and I don't want to get ANOTHER set of speakers for that room. I'll have to see if I can "piggy back" the speakers I already have between the PC and the 360.

Mike

[Insurgent]

Originally Posted by starman

720p Halo OUT OF THE BOX on the 360

That's what I'm looking forward to. XBox 360 is looking damn lovely so far, and that new controller is meant to be excellent.

XBox 360 + Halo2 + Live = heaven over Xmas.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Insurgent

That's what I'm looking forward to. XBox 360 is looking damn lovely so far, and that new controller is meant to be excellent.

XBox 360 + Halo2 + Live = heaven over Xmas.

So far everyone who has touched the controller has sworn it is the best controller ever which is quite ironic after how MS started off.

[kcmac]

Why is the XBox so big. Sure it has a few more curves and doesn't appear quite as bulky as rev 1, but good lord. Couldn't it be more the size of the Mac mini?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by kcmac

Why is the XBox so big. Sure it has a few more curves and doesn't appear quite as bulky as rev 1, but good lord. Couldn't it be more the size of the Mac mini?

Put that much power in a Mini and see what it swells up to. Heck, it has more power than a G5 tower and tiny in comparison.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Put that much power in a Mini and see what it swells up to. Heck, it has more power than a G5 tower and tiny in comparison.

No. A dual G5 tower would be noticeably faster for most code we'd want to run. Why? Because the Xbox 360's CPU cores are less than half as fast per clock.

ie. I'd much rather run Mac apps on a dual-core G5 2.3 than a triple-core 3.2 GHz CPU from an Xbox 360. I suspect Apple's engineers told Steve the same thing.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

No. A dual G5 tower would be noticeably faster for most code we'd want to run. Why? Because the Xbox 360's CPU cores are less than half as fast per clock.

ie. I'd much rather run Mac apps on a dual-core G5 2.3 than a triple-core 3.2 GHz CPU from an Xbox 360. I suspect Apple's engineers told Steve the same thing.

So why were the Dev Dual towers less than half the power of the finals according to developers?

Are you saying even a single chip G5 and advanced video card fit into a smaller space?

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

So why were the Dev Dual towers less than half the power of the finals according to developers?

Cuz the dual towers didn't have as nice of a GPU setup, and ideally the games are written specifically to try to maximize the performance of the Xbox 360's CPU and overall design too.

ie. I'm no expert but... If you code specifically for the idiosyncracies of a specific CPU (like you can with a console), then you wring every last ounce of performance out of it. Hoewever, if you write generic code like you might for real-world apps that run on PCs and Macs, then it would probably suck on a machine with the Xbox 360 CPU. Well, suck is too strong a word. It would probably be just OK.

Are you saying even a single chip G5 and advanced video card fit into a smaller space?

I dunno, but the key here is that advanced GPU you mention. That's the forte of the Xbox 360. Well, that, and the fact the whole machine is specifically built to play games, and not do too much else.

[SuvsareRetarded]

Originally Posted by ort888

Microsoft and Bizarre Creations have fashioned a beautiful, fast-moving racer in a style Xbox gamers are all too familiar with. The game is gorgeous, deep in modes and challenges, and well balanced, even if it's nothing more than a minor leap in gameplay over its predecessor. On the one hand that doesn't bother me a bit. The game wasn't broken before, and now it's more accessible. It's even fatter with modes and online gameplay and challenges, credits, medals, kudos, and trophies than before. On the other hand, there is nothing drastically or even moderately next generation about the racing itself. It handles almost identically to PGR2, the AI balance is similar and the courses and kudos tricks are all in-line with the previous games. There are slight differences, but not many nor enough. Still, as a launch title for Xbox 360? Hell, this is without hesitation on my top five list. It's a no-brainer, must-have launch title.

From the IGN review. Sounds good... but not a system seller for me.

Sounds like..... the same thing, only with more polygons. Yay. zzzzzzzzzzzzz

[SuvsareRetarded]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Tell me, how could you possibly make a realistic driving simulator revolutionary? I think they accomplished it though with the cockpit view. In every other racing game when you go to first person view you only see the road ahead of you, in PGR3 you see the whole cockpit.

Ever heard of NEED FOR SPEED? The first one was sold specifically on the 3DO system. I had it. You saw the cockpits (which were accurate) in all the cars.

What would make a racer revolutionary? BADASS ONLINE HOOKUPS. Massive global race systems. Cash prizes. REALISTIC DAMAGE. Engine failure from redlining. Overheating your tires (NOT WEARING THEM OUT). Fading your brakes. Blowing up your transmission by shoving it into reverse or doing neutral drops. Tons of things could help racing games, but seeing hte cockpit isn't exactly revolutionary.

[goMac]

Saw one today and played with it when I picked up Mario Kart DS.

The system is a good size. It's decent, not the huge original XBox. More like original Playstation 3.

The graphics looked fuzzy. I'm assuming the demo setup was crap. They had some LCD monitor and everything was fuzzy and unreadable.

The controller pissed me off because I feel like the giant X should be start, but it's not, it's XBox Live, and everytime I hit it it brought up XBox live. Meantime, the start button, which is arguably far more important, was the little tiny button next to the XBox live button.

On the bright side the controller had a nice feel to it when you held it.

[SShoot3r]

The controller looks and feels great. I can't wait to get my hands on a 360. I'm probably gonna get PGR3 and COD2..or COD2 and Madden.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Cuz the dual towers didn't have as nice of a GPU setup, and ideally the games are written specifically to try to maximize the performance of the Xbox 360's CPU and overall design too.

ie. I'm no expert but... If you code specifically for the idiosyncracies of a specific CPU (like you can with a console), then you wring every last ounce of performance out of it. Hoewever, if you write generic code like you might for real-world apps that run on PCs and Macs, then it would probably suck on a machine with the Xbox 360 CPU. Well, suck is too strong a word. It would probably be just OK.

I dunno, but the key here is that advanced GPU you mention. That's the forte of the Xbox 360. Well, that, and the fact the whole machine is specifically built to play games, and not do too much else.

Crack open a G5 iMac and then an Xbox 360. Pretty much the same size.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Crack open a G5 iMac and then an Xbox 360. Pretty much the same size.

Right. But the iMac G5 has one powerful core. The XBox 360 has 3 sucky cores. The iMac G5 is probably about the same power as the XBox 360.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac

Right. But the iMac G5 has one powerful core. The XBox 360 has 3 sucky cores. The iMac G5 is probably about the same power as the XBox 360.

ya um fine. Wonder which doom would look on

At any rate, seems the space is reasonable then.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

ya um fine. Wonder which doom would look on

At any rate, seems the space is reasonable then.

Well, the XBox 360 probably has something like a Radeon X1300 so I would be it would look better on the XBox. Processing power has nothing to do with how good a game will look. The graphics card will make a game look better. Nintendo could equip the Revolution with MacNN's hamster and as long as it had a high end graphics card no one could probably tell the difference. Processor power is only important for AI, physics (unless you have a dedicated physics processor which rumor is the Revolution will have), or sound (again assuming that you don't have a dedicated sound card, and I would bet the 360 has one).

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac

Well, the XBox 360 probably has something like a Radeon X1300 so I would be it would look better on the XBox. Processing power has nothing to do with how good a game will look. The graphics card will make a game look better. Nintendo could equip the Revolution with MacNN's hamster and as long as it had a high end graphics card no one could probably tell the difference. Processor power is only important for AI, physics (unless you have a dedicated physics processor which rumor is the Revolution will have), or sound (again assuming that you don't have a dedicated sound card, and I would bet the 360 has one).

Wow, you're impressing us again.

So you are saying they can put in a 16MHz processor but as long as the graphics card is ultra hard core nobody would know the difference? Music, AI and physics are pretty minor stuff eh. Oh ya and graphics are 100% based on the graphics chip

Someone want to have a field day with this one?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Wow, your impressing us again.

So you are saying they can put in a 16MHz processor but as long as the graphics card is ultra hard core nobody would know the difference? Music, AI and physics are pretty minor stuff eh. Oh ya and graphics are 100% based on the graphics chip

Someone want to have a field day with this one?

You asked if an XBox 360 would look better than an iMac. I said it would, but it doesn't have anything to do with the processor. It doesn't get much more complicated than that sir.

[JoshuaZ]

Blah, none of the games impress me all so much yet. Give it some time. See what comes out.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac

You asked if an XBox 360 would look better than an iMac. I said it would, but it doesn't have anything to do with the processor. It doesn't get much more complicated than that sir.

Uh right. This is the same guy that said nobody has HD TV and GameCube sold more than 20 mil (when the oposite it the truth) oh and... half of 20 million is 5 million

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Uh right. This is the same guy that said nobody has HD TV and GameCube sold more than 20 mil (when the oposite it the truth) oh and... half of 20 million is 5 million

Do you spend your life trying to start arguments about game consoles?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac

Do you spend your life trying to start arguments about game consoles?

I believe you're the "anything but nintendo hater" here in every video game thread speaking on things you have done no research on, nor have experience with... but good way around that question.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac

Well, the XBox 360 probably has something like a Radeon X1300 so I would be it would look better on the XBox. Processing power has nothing to do with how good a game will look. The graphics card will make a game look better. Nintendo could equip the Revolution with MacNN's hamster and as long as it had a high end graphics card no one could probably tell the difference. Processor power is only important for AI, physics (unless you have a dedicated physics processor which rumor is the Revolution will have), or sound (again assuming that you don't have a dedicated sound card, and I would bet the 360 has one).

It's amazing how big that hole is you keep digging yourself into.

[SuvsareRetarded]

Processing power actually has a lot to do with how good a game looks or runs. It's what feeds the GPU.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

Processing power actually has a lot to do with how good a game looks or runs. It's what feeds the GPU.

No I hear if you take a 600MHz G4 and put a 256meg video card in it that doom 3 runs better than on a Dual G5.

[Dark Helmet]

I'm somewhat concerned that there are no perfect dark reviews out yet.

[ort888]

It's already in the stores. IGN had to go buy a retail copy! Crazy. That's a REALLY bad sign.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by ort888

It's already in the stores. IGN had to go buy a retail copy! Crazy. That's a REALLY bad sign.

Actually i think microsoft makes them swear that they will not publish the review till a couple days before if they provide them with the hardware early. They did the same for Halo.

At any rate, so far people are saying Call of Duty and PGR are the best.

[ort888]

There was a review embargo, it was 2 days ago at midnight... they never received Perfect Dark.

[Dark Helmet]

Seems the PD reviews are rather positive.

[Stogieman]

Is there any way I can get an xBox 360 on Tuesday without having to purchase a package deal? I went to my local Best Buy store and the price range on the packages were $650 to $1200! F*** THAT!!!

[starman]

STELLAR review of PDZ

http://www.talkxbox.com/review745.html

[goMac]

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

Processing power actually has a lot to do with how good a game looks or runs. It's what feeds the GPU.

Sure but there is a limit. You're talking about feeding the CPU textures. Once all the textures are in VRAM, or RAM, the GPU pretty much just maintains the game state again. And you don't need a crazy CPU to do this. This is why in games, graphics cards and system memory are much much more important than CPU. My P4 3.8 can run World of Warcraft at a higher framerate because of it's X700, but take it to Ironforge and it chops up. My Powerbook has a lesser graphics card, runs at a lower framerate, but take it to Ironforge and the framerate doesn't change. Why? My Powerbook has a gig of RAM, my P4 has 512. Take my P4 to Ironforge, and it's trying to load all the character modals and it's paging my hard drive to death. My Powerbook has enough RAM to avoid the swap file and stay nice and smooth. In other-words, my P4's CPU could cream my Powerbook, but a CPU has nothing to do with avoiding the choppys. Your CPU doesn't really affect your machines bandwidth all that much. Just keep the machine off the hard disk and in the memory and everything will stay nice and fast. CPU is only useful for physics calculations really (programmable GPU's do the lighting these days), and physics CPU's are coming up soon. Once we get physics CPU's, the main CPU will only be useful really for throwing textures into memory, which a G3/233 could easily do.