[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

That is me in 20 years.

AFTER the sex change right
?

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock

AFTER the sex change right
?

Na me in drag.

[CollinG3G4]

I guess it all kind of makes sense. After being stuck in a prison for a third of your life, who really cares if the house is clean or not.

[hey!_Zeus]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

I bought this house...

I thought you all lived in trailers down their. Learn something everyday on the internets.

Would this be a step up or a step down from a trailer?

I'm thinking "down' by the sound of who lived there before.

[Spliffdaddy]

You thought wrong.

But I suppose you're accustomed to that by now.

[himself]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

...Most folks would say I'm doing alright by making $20,000 for 3 months of work. I don't see things that way. I can build a new home in 4 months - and make $50-60,000. In essence, this 'flip' project is costing me about $25,000 - the difference between what I'll make, and what I *could* be making. I won't forget this lesson. Losing 25 big ones is a great way to get your attention. Worse, still - that $25,000 would have made me another $25,000 if I could re-invest it in my next project. Hell, I can't even spend a dollar without feeling like it cost me 2 dollars. Kinda warps your brain if you think about money like I do. It's no wonder I always order off the 99 cent value menu at Wendy's. I feel like it costs me 2 bucks for a 99cent junior bacon cheeseburger. No way in hell I'm ordering a $5 combo meal.

I know you said you don't normally do flips... would you do it again? Considering that feel like you're "losing money" on this, why bother? Just asking.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by himself

I know you said you don't normally do flips... would you do it again? Considering that feel like you're "losing money" on this, why bother? Just asking.

He previously said he wasn't going to do it again.

And I don't blame him.

[Spliffdaddy]

No, I don't see the point in working harder for less money. The real estate market in this area is stagnant - always was and always will be. The only time prices increase is when materials and labor costs increase. In areas where housing is limited, the demand for homes drives the prices upward. Those are the areas where 'flipping' is worth the trouble.

In 'new construction' it's pretty easy to accurately predict the costs and the schedule - and the expected sale price of the home when it's complete. There's much less risk in new construction. But, you can't build new homes where there's no available land. They aren't making any more land, either. So don't buy the house - buy the land it's sitting on. Houses don't increase in value. I know that's a hard concept to grasp. A structure like a building or house is temporary and relatively inexpensive to replace. The location of the land is what has value. I bought a house last year that was completely gutted by fire. I think there's one wall standing - and a concrete slab where the garage used to be. Nobody wanted a burnt house. I didn't either. I wanted the land it was sitting on. It was in a nice subdivision. I paid $12,000 at auction, hired a bulldozer, and buried the remains of the house. It sold in February for $26,750. That's house flipping done backwards. While most folks are buying structures, I'm buying land. Well, except for the mistake I made on this particular house. I figured the structure had value, and I miscalculated.

It all depends on the local real estate market. If land is scarce and demand for housing is high, then flipping is profitable. After all, most people are buying the house and forgetting that the land is where the true value is.

here's how it works...

Let's say you have identical 2 properties next door to each other - in an area with huge demand for housing...and limited vacant land. Both are priced at $450,000. The value of the home itself is probably $50,000 - if you had to rebuild it. Buyers don't understand that part. So, I go in there, spend $50,000 and remodel one of the homes so it's now 3 bedrooms and 2 baths - and has twice the square footage as before. Along comes a buyer....he sees the 2 bedroom 1 bath house and he notes the price is $450,000. He looks at my newly remodeled house with 3 bedrooms and 2 baths, and in his mind he sees a house that's worth TWICE as much as the other house. After all, he's getting twice as much house, right? So he willingly pays me $700,000 and thinks he got a bargain. But, actually, he got a property worth $500,000. He forgot that the land is what he was really buying - and the land ain't worth a penny more than the land next door.

House flipping is merely a form of real-estate speculation.

[himself]

It really is about location (...location, location) and demand. Here in Chicago you can find an abandoned three flat that will need to be gutted going for the price of a fully remodeled building, because 1) the property values are rising dramatically in certain areas, and 2) the seller knows that people will give their first-born for classic brownstone three-flat. In an area that me and my buddy are looking in, these kinds of buildings will go for at least $750k. There are also a good number of vacant lots in this area (a lot of folks are just sitting on them, for some reason), and for the same price as brownstone gut, we could probably build two three flats, including the price of the lot, and sell each building for $800k -$1,000,000 apiece, or sell each unit as a condo for $300k - $400k.

We haven't worked our way up to that point, but flipping can be quite lucative here if you do your homework and have a soild plan to get the work done. Like we have done, we made $45k apiece on a nice flip (could have made more if it weren't for a few slip-ups), and another one which we are renting right now and will sell in about a year for a tidy profit when the property values increase a little more. But, like you said, I would far prefer new consturction to flipping any day. It just takes a lot of money if you're building in an area where you expect to make a decent profit.

But I have to disagree with you on the idea that houses don't increase in value. Their value can decrease, but in the case of the old classic brownstones, nobody builds them like that anymore (it is far too expensive), and they don't even make those "chicago style" bricks that people covet so much (those bricks are scavenged from demolition sites and resold to folks want ot build with them), so any building that is built with them gets an automatic value boost. Certain architectural touches and details that no one takes the time to make or add to new construction further increases the uniqeness (and thus the value) of a building. But once again, it's really only about three things: location, location,location.

[Spliffdaddy]

himself;

Yeah, what's with folks buying property and just sitting on it for years on end? That doesn't make sense to me. I mean, you *must* have liked the property and had a plan for it - else you wouldn't have dropped big money on it. They must think they can take it with 'em when they die. There's a man around here that owns pretty much all the best land - and isn't interested in selling any of it. He's like 75 years old. What the hell does he plan to do with it? Mark my words, his heirs will sell it at auction within a week of burying him. All he's doing is driving up the price of neighboring property by making property artificially scarce. I'd hate to see his property tax assessments every year. It costs him money to own land he's not doing anything with. I bet you the mofo has like 8 or 10 cats running around his house.

It sounds like you're doing quite well with your real estate ventures. Remember, something like 90% of all millionaires made their money in real estate - and 90% of those millionaires were between 40 and 55 years of age.

I may not ever get rich, but I enjoy playing with real estate. I consider it a hobby...while I work all day everyday doing it. It isn't something I planned to do, it was more of an accident. I built a house just to see if I could. And it only took about 4 months. When I say "I built a house", I don't mean that I wrote checks and pretended to be a general contractor. I did pretty much all the work. The plans were doodled on a scrap of notebook paper - which amused the guy at the permit office. I doubled my $50,000 investment in those 4 months. After that, I was hooked.

Each individual day that I work sucks. Yet, overall, I can't imagine having more fun than this.

my first house >

[Timo]

Egad. Some bad mojo in that place. Nice of you, Spiff, to return that house to usefulness.

BTW in the current renovation I'm working on I think we've gone through 20 20 yard containers, at $750 per. It sucks to pay those bills.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

my first house >

Any copper tubing in it?

[cjrivera]

I am really jealous of those of you who know how to do constuction/complex building projects. My neighbor is one of those kinds of guys, and the stuff he does just amazes me. I really wish I had the talent/patience to do that type of work well.

And congrats to you, Spliff, for turning that hell-hole into what seems like a great home.

[Timo]

Originally Posted by himself

But I have to disagree with you on the idea that houses don't increase in value. Their value can decrease, but in the case of the old classic brownstones, nobody builds them like that anymore (it is far too expensive), and they don't even make those "chicago style" bricks that people covet so much (those bricks are scavenged from demolition sites and resold to folks want ot build with them), so any building that is built with them gets an automatic value boost. Certain architectural touches and details that no one takes the time to make or add to new construction further increases the uniqeness (and thus the value) of a building. But once again, it's really only about three things: location, location,location.

I agree. Restrictive zoning and landmark districts place premiums on old house here, making re-hab the only smart play (or the only play, short of arson). The lot itself ends up being perhaps 25% of the value of the house/lot.

[Tuoder]

When I talked about "only" making $20k for three months' work, I meant that you should look at it positively. I mean, you are making money. When you run a buisiness, you stand that chanc of losing cash. You are in the black on this project, and that is something to be grateful for.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

himself; my first house >

Being a city boy I can't imagine living in the middle of nowhere like that. I would absolutely lose it after a couple days.

[Y3a]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

You'll have to prove that the previous owners were aware of the defects - and failed to disclose them. I don't see that being possible to prove. Used houses are like used cars. Good luck, though.

I was gonna have a private detective talk to the many renters that lived their in the 3 years before they sold...

[Y3a]

Spliff, what area was that Flipped house in? I know you live in or around VA.

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Houses don't increase in value. I know that's a hard concept to grasp. A structure like a building or house is temporary and relatively inexpensive to replace.

...

Let's say you have identical 2 properties next door to each other - in an area with huge demand for housing...and limited vacant land. Both are priced at $450,000. The value of the home itself is probably $50,000 - if you had to rebuild it. Buyers don't understand that part.

I don't know where you live, but around here a $450,000 home costs WAY more than $50k to build. A $300k 1700 sq/ft home costs about $140k in material around here (Southern Utah).

And the land is not the only thing that is increasing around here... townhomes that have NO LAND (no garage, no back or front yard that you own) have increased dramatically, while LAND with manufactured homes on it has not.

For example, I bought a manufactured home with a nice backyard, a decent front yard, fruit trees, play area, garden, etc. about two years ago; a buddy of mine bought a townhome at the same time. Both of our houses were the same size (1200 sq/ft), and both were in the same valued neighborhood. We both paid ~$95k when we bought them. Today my home (with land) would sell for $125k, his him recnetly sold for $200k. You can't tell me it's the land. The home directly behind mine is not a manufactured home and it recently sold for $215k (it is the same sq footage as mine). It was sold for $100k when I bought my home. Again, it is NOT the land. Land may have increased in value, but so did the actual structures.

You seem to live in a entirely different real estate world than we have around here. A peice of land for $25k? Not here.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Y3a

I was gonna have a private detective talk to the many renters that lived their in the 3 years before they sold...

We had the same issue. Bought a house that was a rental - for below market, which was a good thing. The seller didn't tell us that the main waste pipe running through the house was cracked. They had kept the top floor apartment vacant, so we wouldn't find out. Thankfully we noticed before the walls came up completely so it was an easy job to remove the old cast iron and replace it with plastic. Yes, it's noisier, but this won't be our last house so I didn't go for one of the more expensive solutions.

I talked to my lawyer about this and he advised against suing the previous owner. I wanted to send him a letter just to let him know that we were aware of his asshattery but then I just let it go. Te repair wasn't expensive and we've made about 75-80 grand on the house already.

[CMYKid]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

You'll have to prove that the previous owners were aware of the defects - and failed to disclose them. I don't see that being possible to prove. Used houses are like used cars. Good luck, though.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This picture may possibly be the husband/wife/child from the above news article:



Finally, a more recent photo of the previous owner:


(no way is that *his* house. Not enough junk laying around)


I can't vouch for the accuracy of any of this. All I have is a photo album that contains very few dates and names. Also, I'm no expert on child development...so use your best judgement on whether the infant in the picture appears to be no more than 3 1/2 months old. For all I know, the photo could be unrelated to the people in the article.

that totally looks to be the same guy, or as much as can be gathered from a fuzzy photo...

he looks exactly like i pictured the guy from the beginning of your story too. the first photo is a Far Side character....huge shoulders, tiny head...

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Na me in drag.

With your face painted yellow

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by CMYKid

he looks exactly like i pictured the guy from the beginning of your story too. the first photo is a Far Side character....huge shoulders, tiny head...

Don't forget those fashionable mom jeans with a 9 inch zipper!

[Y3a]

I think its Grandma(his mom)with the baby, Him-only younger but note the same glasses, and his wifey-poo. Creepy.

[Gossamer]

The girl on the far right looks very young to me.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

The girl on the far right looks very young to me.

Yes. According to the article the guy's wife was 16 when he was 22.

[brassplayersrock²]

holy crap. i think that is the guy that got the 25 year conviction. the same type of glasses (as noted above) and in the older picture the guy is wearing a kinda thick watch on his left hand, and the fat guy has a massive tan line on the watch area of his left wrist. (i know i know, more than one person wears a watch)

Alex

[kyles_mac]

It's amazing what a little elbow grease and hard work can do to a house.


It's a shame more people can't pick up after themselves.

[hey!_Zeus]

Looks like the brother and sister were married...to each other!!!

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by torsoboy

I don't know where you live, but around here a $450,000 home costs WAY more than $50k to build. A $300k 1700 sq/ft home costs about $140k in material around here (Southern Utah).

And the land is not the only thing that is increasing around here... townhomes that have NO LAND (no garage, no back or front yard that you own) have increased dramatically, while LAND with manufactured homes on it has not.

For example, I bought a manufactured home with a nice backyard, a decent front yard, fruit trees, play area, garden, etc. about two years ago; a buddy of mine bought a townhome at the same time. Both of our houses were the same size (1200 sq/ft), and both were in the same valued neighborhood. We both paid ~$95k when we bought them. Today my home (with land) would sell for $125k, his him recnetly sold for $200k. You can't tell me it's the land. The home directly behind mine is not a manufactured home and it recently sold for $215k (it is the same sq footage as mine). It was sold for $100k when I bought my home. Again, it is NOT the land. Land may have increased in value, but so did the actual structures.

You seem to live in a entirely different real estate world than we have around here. A peice of land for $25k? Not here.

No, it's the land that's increasing in value. Or more precisely, the location of the land. Land zoned for manufactured homes does not tend to increase in value as much as land with 'restrictions' - which often specify a minimum square footage, 1 or 2 car garage, concrete driveway, and landscaping. The house structure only increases in value as material costs and labor costs increase. Townhomes & condominiums increase in value because of their location. You won't find many townhomes in areas with a lot of vacant land.

I don't understand how material costs could vary so widely across the nation. The house in the picture I posted is 1400 square feet, 3 bedrooms / 2 baths - and was built using very high quality materials throughout. It has a oversized 1 car detached garage/workshop. The total cost of materials was about $38,000. When you add the cost of the septic system ($3800), Heatpump ($3800), and utilities/permits ($2,000) - it's still under $50,000. The labor to assemble the raw materials into a house is probably about $40,000. It sits on a $15,000 acre lot - which don't seem to exist any longer.

The sky is the limit when it comes to material prices. Brick veneer exteriors, granite countertops, and zebrawood flooring could double the cost of materials in a home.

All I know is that for $100,000 you should be able to buy enough raw materials to build a house that's so big you'd need a housekeeper.

[Ulrich Kinbote]

I don't think it's very nice to show everyone that slob's personal photos. You should return them to him.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

When we took a first look at our house my wife nearly walked out again. The stench was just unbelievable. At first we thought that it was just sweat and smoke but when we took the place apart we found that the main waste stack had been leaking for years and that the roof had a hole in it, leading to mould behind the ancient plaster. Nice.

Anyway, we took everything out, back to the brick walls. Fixed the roof, demolished the plaster and started from fresh. We even ripped out the old flooring - when I drove it to the dump you could still smell the rankness of years of neglect in it.

We're about 85% of the way there.
Notice the raised kitchen for tall people who like to cook. The island on the left is an old chest of drawers. It needs a marble top, then it'll make the perfect pastry station.

Nice work!

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by Ulrich Kinbote

I don't think it's very nice to show everyone that slob's personal photos. You should return them to him.

I own them. According to the deed, I own everything on and under the property.

Besides, he left no forwarding address. The mailbox is full of his mail.

edit: He left 60 CUBIC YARDS of personal possessions. I'd like to send him a bill for removing all that crap.

[jbianchini]

Originally Posted by Ulrich Kinbote

I don't think it's very nice to show everyone that slob's personal photos. You should return them to him.

He very well may have killed his newborn son. God forbid someone shows a photo of him! Think of the children

[brassplayersrock²]

i really wanna know how much spliff gets for this house. just me? or does anyone else want to?

alex

[Spliff]

Originally Posted by Person Man

Any copper tubing in it?

I don't get it. What am I missing here?

[himself]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

himself;

Yeah, what's with folks buying property and just sitting on it for years on end? That doesn't make sense to me. I mean, you *must* have liked the property and had a plan for it - else you wouldn't have dropped big money on it. They must think they can take it with 'em when they die. There's a man around here that owns pretty much all the best land - and isn't interested in selling any of it. He's like 75 years old. What the hell does he plan to do with it? Mark my words, his heirs will sell it at auction within a week of burying him. All he's doing is driving up the price of neighboring property by making property artificially scarce. I'd hate to see his property tax assessments every year. It costs him money to own land he's not doing anything with. I bet you the mofo has like 8 or 10 cats running around his house.

It sounds like you're doing quite well with your real estate ventures. Remember, something like 90% of all millionaires made their money in real estate - and 90% of those millionaires were between 40 and 55 years of age.

I may not ever get rich, but I enjoy playing with real estate. I consider it a hobby...while I work all day everyday doing it. It isn't something I planned to do, it was more of an accident. I built a house just to see if I could. And it only took about 4 months. When I say "I built a house", I don't mean that I wrote checks and pretended to be a general contractor. I did pretty much all the work. The plans were doodled on a scrap of notebook paper - which amused the guy at the permit office. I doubled my $50,000 investment in those 4 months. After that, I was hooked.

Each individual day that I work sucks. Yet, overall, I can't imagine having more fun than this.

my first house >

It makes even less sense for someone to sit on a vacant property here is the city, because they are losing money on it. They still have to pay property taxes on it, and the county charges property owners additional fees. I'd advise them to just sell it, or get a loan and start building on it.

As far as getting rich off of real estate, it is a possibility, but I'm not focused on that. I really like working with my hands and getting involoved with some of the dirty work, but this isn't my primary line of work, and thus I don't really have that time to spare. For any other future projects we'll be hiring contractors to do the dirty work, to save us some time and some cash, so I'll be that much less involved. Besides the manual part of it, I can't stand the real estate world and would rather leave that aspect to someone who does. I'm in love with graphic design and art making, and that's what I'd rather spend my days doing, as long as I have a choice.

Your first house looks great, by the way. I don't think I'm skilled enough to build my own home from scratch, but I've fantasized about buying a large plot of land in a rural area and putting a nice home on it and landscaping everything around it. That would be a nice project.

[kick52]

those pictures of the house looking dirty remind me of that tv program (uk) on channel 4, with kim & agey (aggie?) i think its called "How clean is your house?" I dont remember.

[Ulrich Kinbote]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

I own them. According to the deed, I own everything on and under the property.

Besides, he left no forwarding address. The mailbox is full of his mail.

edit: He left 60 CUBIC YARDS of personal possessions. I'd like to send him a bill for removing all that crap.

I didn't say it wasn't legal. I said it wasn't very nice to publish his personal photos in the public domain.

But whatever.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Spliff

I don't get it. What am I missing here?

Well, it was supposed to be a reference to your self-built computer cases, but...

oh, never mind.

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by Ulrich Kinbote

I didn't say it wasn't legal. I said it wasn't very nice to publish the photos spliff paid for in the public domain.

But whatever.

fixed
spliff bought the house and whatever was inside of it. they're spliffs now, not the old guys. spliff can do whatever he wants with them

Alex

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

No, it's the land that's increasing in value. Or more precisely, the location of the land. Land zoned for manufactured homes does not tend to increase in value as much as land with 'restrictions' - which often specify a minimum square footage, 1 or 2 car garage, concrete driveway, and landscaping. The house structure only increases in value as material costs and labor costs increase. Townhomes & condominiums increase in value because of their location. You won't find many townhomes in areas with a lot of vacant land.

I don't know man, the house behind mine that just sold for $215k is the same size as mine and is zoned exactly the same. His neighbors have a manufactured home as well. It doesn't seem to be the land. And the townhome that I was talking about before is next to quite a bit of open land. They are even building apartments directly behind the set of townhomes, and the value still went up WAY more than the value of my home. Seems to me that it is not the land only that is going up. Oh, and my manufactured home has an attached 2 car garage, complete driveway, and full landscaping (as does every other manufactired home around us). I know you build homes and probably know quite a bit, but it seems that the place you live is quite a bit different than the place I live. The quote for $140k for the materials on a 1700 square foot home came from the newspaper a few days ago showing how much material prices have increased in the past two years.

A co-worker of mine built almost every peice of his home himself (except the wiring and the hanging of the drywall); it is a 2300 sq/ft home (with 2 car garage), and it cost him just over $100k (two years ago) in material. Seems like you are getting some awsome deal if you can get it that much cheaper.

[hey!_Zeus]

Buying and fixing up old wooden shacks...pffft!!

[Spliffdaddy]

Living with yer mom...pffft!!

[Ulrich Kinbote]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock

fixed
spliff bought the house and whatever was inside of it. they're spliffs now, not the old guys. spliff can do whatever he wants with them

Alex

You're right. It's legal, so, ipso facto, it's a nice thing to do! Stupid me!

[brassplayersrock²]

you get what the **** im saying, jeezus. it's not like he's posting semi nude pictures of the fatass at his computer desk. jesus christ, some people and there lack of whatever they have the lack of

[Ulrich Kinbote]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock

you get what the **** im saying, jeezus. it's not like he's posting semi nude pictures of the fatass at his computer desk. jesus christ, some people and there lack of whatever they have the lack of

Some people and their lack of whatever.

And I think the word you're looking for is unscrupulousness, which I lack and spliffdaddy doesn't.

But, again, whatever. Post away. In fact, send me a t-shirt.

[brassplayersrock²]

*shrug* anyways, how's the house coming along Spliff?

[Kerrigan]

Maybe Ulrich is the guy in the pictures?

[Ulrich Kinbote]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Maybe Ulrich is the guy in the pictures?

Because showing concern for someone is a clear indication you are that someone.