[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

What would we do about all those that are much more lazy and less altruistic than people like you and refuse to devote all of their talents, energy, hard work, and tireless efforts to the social good?

You mean instead of pressuring them into working low paying, dead-end jobs that turn them into fat, processed food-consuming lard-asses?

Damn, I don't know there Johnny. Maybe the world would asplode.

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

The flaw with the utopian ideal of socialism is that it is not congruent with the true nature of people.

WRONG!

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

Most are not willing to do what it takes to become an engineer, doctor, or even a college professor, when the reward for doing so is that they live no better off than the cab driver next door.

WRONG! There have even been studies that show otherwise.

Greed is a lousy motivational factor that hardly ever produces anything worthwhile.

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

No offense to cab drivers or anything, but do you believe that an engineer should make a salary that is marginally higher than a cab drivers? Or just that he or she should make much more but then have most of it confiscated to give to cab drivers, bus drivers, and even those able bodied people who refuse to work at all but much prefer to sit home and get stoned all day?

Personally, I don't think that re-distribution of wealth is a good long-term solution.

I'm all for "Basic Income" though.

[DLQ2006]

[QUOTE=itai195]

I'm going to take your post slightly out of order.



No, this is what you said, actually, and is what I responded to:



You're saying rich liberals are hypocrites and elitist, sounds like a generalization to me.

I said that the rich liberals who espouse virtues that they do not themselves live by are hypocrits and elitists. I didn't generalize about all liberals in reference to why the terms "elitist" gets used. If you haven't gotten it by now, you're not gonna...........LOL.

You also seem to have some irrational hatred of academia, but I wonder where you think the education and research necessary to support our capitalist economy comes from?

I don't have a hatred of academia at all. I've spent 4 years earning my degree. I am quite aware of the differences between engineer majors, aviation majors, science majors, et cetera who study how to actually build, fix, and operate things that will add to the production of our economy, as opposed to those Liberal arts students learning how to best tear down America.

Do you only find hypocrisy and elitism on the left? Is it hypocritical to call oneself a Christian and support torture?

No, it's not hypocritical at all to expect that when we send our troops in to catch the scumbags terrorists (assuming a great risk to their own life in the process) that when they bring them to us, we do what is needed to make them give us information that will save lives. To not do so is to squander the lives of those who give and risk their lives to hunt down and bring the scumbags to justice. How many Americans and other innocents have to die because of our mercy towards our enemies?

You may want to consider everything and anything that makes someone give up information under duress as "torture" but your definition of torture doesn't resonate with the sane world. Most rationale people realize that taking a terrorist out and covering him with honey and then throwing him to ravenous animals would constitute as torture. However, making them put panties on their head, using loud music, and a room with the temperature turned down to 45 degrees does not constitute as torture.

Is it hypocritical to call oneself compassionate and seek to marginalize homosexuals? Is it elitist and hypocritical to strut and talk with a southern drawl even though one is from Connecticut and went to Yale and Harvard?

There will be bigots everywhere. I don't see homosexuals being marginalized in the U.S. as long as they don't push it in our faces and demand that everyone accepts their lifestyle on a moral level. As far as being insulted, everyone is insulted. I hear people who have a "southern drawl" get insulted all the time. I hear white men in general be disproportionately insulted all the time. Do we all have the right to go into a frenzy every time we are insulted?

Is it hypocritical to claim the need for small government yet support massive spending deficits?

Yea, I am against those.

Is it hypocritical to claim terrorists 'hate our freedom' while one supports curtailment of civil liberties?

You fail to grasp that there are different types of criminals. Those Americans that committ domestic crimes, are protected to the umpth degree by our due process. You want to give every terrorists that comes to America or is caught on the battle field these same protections and denial of that kind of lunacy is not the equivalent of Americans having their civil liberties curtailed.

Is it hypocritical to be pro-life and support the death penalty?

Only if you refuse to make a distinction between the innocent life of an unborn child and the actions of a sadistic slug that slaughters people for fun. Reminds me of the joke: You know you are a liberal if you believe that abortion is about reproductive choice only and the death penalty for a serial killer is cruel and unusual.

Is it elitist to proclaim the importance of 'individualism' yet want to do away with the estate tax?

So now individualism is proportional to how much of a person's own money the govt is entitled to?

[itai195]

So now individualism is proportional to how much of a person's own money the govt is entitled to?

Not really what I meant. For an ideology that espouses individualism, hard work, free enterprise, etc it seems hypocritical to me to oppose the estate tax. Massive wealth transfers empower people who didn't earn anything and were just lucky enough to be related to the right people.

[DLQ2006]

[QUOTE=PER3]

There are no gradations of Socialism?

A nation is either Socialist or not?

The system in the US contains no elements of Socialism?

Why do we pay social security taxes then? That money is being spent to pay for the benefits of current beneficiaries.

Why is it that the federal govt and state govts tax people's income to fund medicare and medicaid?

Why do we have public housing, free hot lunch, food stamps, public education, et cetera? Are all of these programs not funded by taxes?

Those are all SOCIAL PROGRAMS. We do not have as much socialism as countries like Sweden do. We do not have as much govt ownership and control over industry as countries like that do either.

[Spliffdaddy]

Yes, Sweden is socialist.

Heck, so is most of Europe - as well as Canada.

Please note that the USA has been more successful than any other country - to the point that everybody wants to live here.

"I want to live in that country where poor people are fat"

[Dave Brasgalla]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Please note that the USA has been more successful than any other country - to the point that everybody wants to live here.

Well, of course, this very much not true - unless you were just being facetious? Certainly many people do, but many people don't. I like it where I am, Reinfeldt or no. I'm willing to give the man a chance and see what he can do, even if I didn't vote for him.

I consider Sweden to be a wonderful place to live, and even though it's far from perfect and we have our share of serious problems just like anyone else, we're working hard (and democratically) to make it better for everyone.

Sweden has had a strong connection to the States for a long time, and quite a number of people here have family ties there, due to the mass emigrations in the early 20th century. Beyond that, there are heavy business links and a lot of international traffic, through companies like Volvo, Scania, Sony Ericsson and others. Swedes are generally quite fond of you all, and I think most people here wish you all well - but that's a very different thing than wanting to live there with you.

[DLQ2006]

Originally Posted by itai195

Not really what I meant. For an ideology that espouses individualism, hard work, free enterprise, etc it seems hypocritical to me to oppose the estate tax. Massive wealth transfers empower people who didn't earn anything and were just lucky enough to be related to the right people.

But it is about rights. Do I not have a right to give my children what I have earned and saved all of my life? Why does the govt have the right to take my money and give it to who they think are more entitled to my own money? Some people leave their businesses to their children so that their children will continue running their business. People should have the freedom to leave their money to whomever or whatever they want to. It's their money and it's already been taxed to death.