[mdc]

You raise some good points goMac. I didn't think about how the table knows what is placed where, and the idea of security in a public place is interesting.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon 

Why? What is the advantage of this particular implementation (rear projection using IR cameras) over a normal touchscreen in the context of an audio app? Wouldn't a normal touchscreen be more cost effective? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm asking because I don't have expertise in that field.

I did say "touchscreen OR table", meaning no difference.

The multiple-touch aspect is the advantage over "normal" touchscreens:

Imagine a mixing console.

48 faders
TEN fingers
multiband graphic equalizers with variable Qs
etc. etc.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by analogika 

I did say "touchscreen OR table", meaning no difference.

The multiple-touch aspect is the advantage over "normal" touchscreens:

Imagine a mixing console.

48 faders
TEN fingers
multiband graphic equalizers with variable Qs
etc. etc.

Ah, ok, we were talking past each other. I was speaking more in the context of the big, rear projection approach they use here, rather than a multi touch flat screen.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Meh. I think I'll stick with the Penny and Giles.

Heh.

When did you start getting into computer-based audio production again?

At your rate, you'll start caving about fifteen years after this tech has found widespread adoption.

[JonoMarshall]

I have sweaty palms, do I get a special "glove"?

This isn't exactly new, but it is rather exciting... I work in Outdoor advertising and there's certainly enough demand for this current product as long as the price is right.

BTW does anyone else ever feel distant to content that is delivered via touchscreen consoles? Like you can never actually get at "it", like your stuck on the outside? (I loved the virtual to physical elements of the Surface for this reason.)

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The future of computer is something you carry everywhere with you, not a giant table stuck in your living room.

Or perhaps it's both.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by C.A.T.S. CEO 

I'd like to see multi-touch in general in MacBooks and Pros, remove the keyboard and trackpad and stick a multi-touch screen there (a MacBook/Pro DS if you will).

I think people who ask for a touch screen keyboard fail to realize how difficult touch typing would be on a completely smooth surface without any tactile feedback.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Heh.

When did you start getting into computer-based audio production again?

SD2 era. But I likes my analogue mixing!

Originally Posted by analogika 

At your rate, you'll start caving about fifteen years after this tech has found widespread adoption.

Sounds about right.

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I think people who ask for a touch screen keyboard fail to realize how difficult touch typing would be on a completely smooth surface without any tactile feedback.

With object recognition like the kind demonstrated in the Surface videos, you could have a transparent silicon keyboard you can drop on top of the table, and be able to use it with the software keyboard showing through the keys.

The advantages to that would be a few: with the raised keys you could touch-type no problem, and by seeing the interface below it, you can create user interface clues, such as displaying the alternate character set when you hold down the option key, or labelling key commands directly on the keyboard when you hold down command.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

And really, do you want to trust your device to freely talk to a table? You might put your cell phone on the table so the table can pull your credit card info, but what's to stop someone from programming the table to quietly pull your pictures and contact list too?

Personally, I don't care about the privacy of my pictures and contact list nearly as much as my credit card info.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Visnaut 

With object recognition like the kind demonstrated in the Surface videos, you could have a transparent silicon keyboard you can drop on top of the table, and be able to use it with the software keyboard showing through the keys.

The advantages to that would be a few: with the raised keys you could touch-type no problem, and by seeing the interface below it, you can create user interface clues, such as displaying the alternate character set when you hold down the option key, or labelling key commands directly on the keyboard when you hold down command.

Yes, a transparent silicon keyboard-shaped overlay would solve the problem of touch type. Hardware design would have to deal with the issue of storing an accessory (always on the table? accessory drawer?), but those would be rather simple issues to deal with.

I really like the idea of silicone overlays with object recognition.

[imitchellg5]

Seriously, is this a joke? What is it? It reminds me of the holoprojector table in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Personally, I don't care about the privacy of my pictures and contact list nearly as much as my credit card info.

Well, then there is the more basic problem of these tables being hacked. They're all wireless. All some hacker needs to do is find a buffer overflow exploit somewhere (shouldn't be too hard on a Microsoft product), and then load some sort of additional software on the table that logs credit card numbers and info and ships them back to the hacker.

The touchscreen is cool but all this wireless is a problem.

I mention the contact list because it would be something that could be sold to tele-marketers.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Seriously, is this a joke? What is it? It reminds me of the holoprojector table in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones.

What about it makes you think it's a joke? The Microsoft logo?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Visnaut 

...and amazingly Windows only. I'm sorry, but I don't buy into Microsoft's brand of altruism.

Wrong

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Wrong

That page is about the Silverlight browser plugin, not the development tools.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

"Right now, the machine is using a series of tags on some physical objects to recognize them "

Gadget Lab - Wired Blogs

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

"Right now, the machine is using a series of tags on some physical objects to recognize them "

Gadget Lab - Wired Blogs

Yep, that's about what I thought. Until devices start shipping with these tags, I don't see these tables catching on. What good is putting one of this things in a restaurant when no one has tags on their stuff?

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

What about it makes you think it's a joke? The Microsoft logo?

Well that too. It just seems terribly silly.

[Super Mario]

Stop calling it a touchscreen. Technically Surface is a diffuser screen for a rear projector and it uses infrared sensor to detect where hands are placed on the diffuser.



(1) Screen: A diffuser turns the Surface's acrylic tabletop into a large horizontal screen, capable of processing multiple inputs from multiple users. The Surface can also recognize objects by their shapes or by reading coded "domino" tags.
(2) Infrared: Surface's "machine vision" operates in the near-infrared spectrum, using an 850-nanometer-wavelength LED light source aimed at the screen. When objects touch the tabletop, the light reflects back and is picked up by multiple infrared cameras with a net resolution of 1280 x 960.
(3) CPU: Surface uses many of the same components found in everyday desktop computers — a Core 2 Duo processor, 2GB of RAM and a 256MB graphics card. Wireless communication with devices on the surface is handled using WiFi and Bluetooth antennas (future versions may incorporate RFID or Near Field Communications). The underlying operating system is a modified version of Microsoft Vista.
(4) Projector: Microsoft's Surface uses the same DLP light engine found in many rear-projection HDTVs. The footprint of the visible light screen, at 1024 x 768 pixels, is actually smaller than the invisible overlapping infrared projection to allow for better recognition at the edges of the screen.



Jeff Han's version uses a real touch sensitive screen.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by C.A.T.S. CEO 

Excuse me? I know how to use a keyboard.

How do we know that you didn't write this post with voice recognition? I think maybe you should take a video of you writing something on your keyboard so that this can be proven.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I used to love these as a kid.

[Kerrigan]

This reminds me of those "home of the future" style predictions. Very cool, very slick, but the technology will not find its way into our homes in the manner demonstrated.

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Wrong

If you read what I quoted, you'd see I was making light of the fact that the developer tools are Windows-only. They can have the best tools on the planet, but I'd rather go with a truly cross-platform solution.

As for the Surface hardware, that's pretty interesting. It's a shame though that the resolution on that 30" screen is just 1024x768.

Originally Posted by goMac 

Yep, that's about what I thought. Until devices start shipping with these tags, I don't see these tables catching on. What good is putting one of this things in a restaurant when no one has tags on their stuff?

Yeah, you're completely right. Chicken and the egg scenario. I don't see major manufacturers hopping onboard until this is much more mainstream. Unless there's a way to print out your own tags, for your own devices, the usefulness is extremely limited.

How is a restaurant going to go about it? Would they have to be printing tags to tape onto the underside of glasses all the time? I would imagine they would have to use adhesive that is easy to remove so that the kitchen staff doesn't have to be scraping those things off.

I wonder how condensation or other fluids on the table affect object recognition as well...

[red rocket]

I'm not impressed.

The concept has very limited real‑world application potential (hotels, museums, tourist centres, etc.), and the implementation via cameras, projectors, and tag‑readers is unimaginative and impractical.

Typical Microsoft mindset, their view of the future is everybody loaded with ID tags, being constantly scanned and squirted upon and interfaced with via proprietary technology embedded in big fat tables and wall panels. Retards.

[Big Mac]

It's a slick demo. I have to doubt it's really as functional as what's shown, but they're promising a winter roll-out so I suppose it's possible. If it works as shown, it may be the first truly cool technological creation M$ beat Apple to. Hey, does anyone else see similarities between this thing's GUI and the iPhone's?

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

I'm not impressed.

The concept has very limited real‑world application potential (hotels, museums, tourist centres, etc.), and the implementation via cameras, projectors, and tag‑readers is unimaginative and impractical.

I recognise that this has limited potential and I still think it's cool. Kudos to Microsoft for innovating in a vertical niche!

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Yep, that's about what I thought. Until devices start shipping with these tags, I don't see these tables catching on. What good is putting one of this things in a restaurant when no one has tags on their stuff?

Say what? You KNOW that companies will starting adding whatever "tags" are needed to work with it as soon as they get them in stock. That's the way technology works... someone comes up with something cool and the big players jump on as fast as they can so that their competitors don't have extra advantages over them. With credit cards it would be very very easy... every year or two you have to replace your card, so in a 2-3 year span every card in the world could work with this.

I would gladly replace my credit card with one that could work with this technology. And I wouldn't buy a phone/camera/whatever in the future if it was not compatible.

[- - e r i k - -]

RFID Journal - RFID-Enabled Credit Cards Apt to Lead - RFID (Radio Frequency Identification) Technology News & Features
When paying with plastic, why swipe? Just wave | Tech News on ZDNet

[Doofy]

Avoid RFID credit cards like they're the plague. Seriously.

Unless you want your account drained, that is.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Avoid RFID credit cards like they're the plague. Seriously.

Unless you want your account drained, that is.

So best to keep them in non-important things like U.S. Passports than right?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

So best to keep them in non-important things like U.S. Passports than right?

It's best to keep them in the trashcan. Whatever idiot thought that idea up wants horsewhipping.

[- - e r i k - -]

Seeing as RFID credit cards are just transmitting dummy numbers that are encrypted it doesn't really matter. Even if you break the encryption the data is meaningless.

[Super Mario]

If RFID is done right with full security it can be really good. You can use the internet or phone to find your kids or lost dog or search where your friends are when you lost them at the club. If you don't want to be found you can put yourself on private mode. When you go shopping you can throw clothes on and a mirror will tell how much the cost of everything you are wearing is. You can walk right out the store with the clothes on and be charged automatically. No need for cash registers.

You can find terrorists if they forget to put their profile on private Big rewards $$$

Everyone can be more accountable and it cuts lots of bureaucracy. Police and intelligensia can be cut down massively. If that happens there will be very big savings and then more money can go to hospitals, welfare, education and the national healthcare service that everyone keeps asking for in the US.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

If RFID is done right with full security it can be really good. You can use the internet or phone to find your kids or lost dog or search where your friends are when you lost them at the club. If you don't want to be found you can put yourself on private mode. When you go shopping you can throw clothes on and a mirror will tell how much the cost of everything you are wearing is. You can walk right out the store with the clothes on and be charged automatically. No need for cash registers.

How on earth do you securely implement a system where people are charged money without their explicit consent?

[Hawkeye_a]

I vaguely remember seeing a demo of a huge 'multi-touch' screen a year or 2 ago, which seems reall similar to what Microsoft Surface's technology seems to resemble.

It's cool, but it's obvious this is a 'trade show' product (ie, it will never make it to market due to price, demand, etc). it's like those 'future cars' you used to see at car shows through the 90s that never made it to production.

As far as Marketability.... this would fare far worse than the 'tablet PC'. Whats the target market ? cafe's, homes, offices, studios ? of all of those i see studios as having the most interest in this product for the light table emulation.

However, I did like the way the camera and the table interacted. thats what i want. it would be so cool to have camera sync photos into iPhoto over WiFi/Bluetooth (albiet slow).

PS>> it would be a pain in the neck(literally) to use this device over long periods

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

How on earth do you securely implement a system where people are charged money without their explicit consent?

You walk out the store with the goods. The store's sensor picks up that person ID #4245SGH24S52492 walked out with goods ID #4580HDSS480FT. The store sends a message to person ID #4245SGH24S52492 on their phone to confirm they walked out with goods ID #4580HDSS480FT. Confirmation is done with combination thumbprint, facial recognition and Bluetooth pairing (2-way password or account with a store). It's one step easy confirmation because you have your thumb on the phone's thumbprint reader while pointing the phone's camera at your face and Bluetooth (or whatever secure wireless protocol) is on.

If confirmation fails that means your RFID tag could be stolen and the cops track the thief down. You are not charged money because confirmation failed.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

So best to keep them in non-important things like U.S. Passports than right?

Name may have changed. Hatefulness still same.