[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Try reading the thread next time. Nobody's questioning whether humans have eaten meat — I can sit at a McDonalds and answer that one pretty easily. The point is that we aren't very good at eating meat: It usually doesn't give us most of the nutrients we need, it gives us a bunch of stuff that is bad for us, and it generally requires a crapton of processing just not to kill us. If you think that is a food that's well-suited to us, I've got a bottle of arsenic you can try.

Actually our appendix was for processing vegitation.
If vegitation was so easy to get nutriants from, cows wouldn't have 3 stomachs.
Now it's shrank over the melennia and some are born without an appendix.

Inuits live off of a meat diet.
They'll take the arsenic now.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Humans can eat raw meat. See steak tartare if you don't believe me.

I brought that up earlier as well, but it was conviently ignored.

[design219]

Mmmmmm. medium rare steak. I've never tried it raw, I guess because of the ick factor, but I know some people do like it that way.

I think a little singe brings out the real flavor. Yes, I think I might go out for steak tonight. And I'll drive.

Apologies to you vegans, but this is the war lounge.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by design219 

Mmmmmm. medium rare steak. I've never tried it raw, I guess because of the ick factor, but I know some people do like it that way.

I think a little singe brings out the real flavor. Yes, I think I might go out for steak tonight. And I'll drive.

Apologies to you vegans, but this is the war lounge.

I like my steak lightly seared on the outside and still bloody inside. I suppose it would be even better raw, but there are some safety concerns, so cooking the outside is a good idea.

[Rumor]

There was a guy that used to go into a restaurant my sister worked that ordered his steak the minimum it can be cooked in California, which is something like three or five seconds per side.

A bit hardcore for me, but to each thier own.

[nonhuman]

Cow blood is delicious.

[design219]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Cow blood is delicious.

I've heard scramble cow blood (like scrambled eggs) is a delicacy in parts of the world.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

I like my steak lightly seared on the outside and still bloody inside. I suppose it would be even better raw, but there are some safety concerns, so cooking the outside is a good idea.

Why would omnivores have safety concerns with raw meat? Surely your system processes it just fine?

[design219]

I sort of suspect before we learned to use fire, we relied partly on bacteria to help break down meat before we ate it.

Eating rotten meat. Isn't that a lovely thought?

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Why would omnivores have safety concerns with raw meat? Surely your system processes it just fine?

You know damned well why.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by design219 

I sort of suspect before we learned to use fire, we relied partly on bacteria to help break down meat before we ate it.

Eating rotten meat. Isn't that a lovely thought?

Even when it's cooked we do that. Intestinal flora is a wonderful thing.

[BRussell]

This is kind of an odd debate. To argue that raw meat has germs that can be dangerous is pretty unconvincing as to what we're "meant" to eat - plants can have germs on them too, and can be unsafe unless handled and cleaned properly. Most e coli outbreaks today are from plants (e.g. spinach). Other plants are poisonous. Does that mean we aren't "meant" to eat fruits and vegetables? Isn't talk about what humans are "meant" to eat really a nonsensical question? I can't believe that we were meant to eat 90% of the stuff in grocery stores.

[Sherman Homan]

Eating rotten meat. Isn't that a lovely thought?

Yet we eat yogurt and Blue cheese.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Sherman Homan 

Yet we eat yogurt and Blue cheese.

Maybe you do…

[design219]

Originally Posted by Sherman Homan 

Yet we eat yogurt and Blue cheese.

Yes, not me either. I have always hated cheese and yogurt. However, I am in a minority. Say that you want something without cheese at a restaurant and they think you are some kind of outer space alien.

[Sky Captain]

The Inuits and I are still awaiting the arrival of our arsenic.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

Ever see Stephen Tyler?

Bon mot.

[design219]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

Ever see Stephen Tyler?

Yeah, he had a cameo in one of the Harry Potter movies.

[Sky Captain]

Not one vegetarian, none, started life that way.
No herbivore mammal ever started life as a vegetarian.
Mammals rely on their mothers milk for sustinance.
Animal product. Not vegan at all.

And there was a case where a vegan couple starved their infant to death on a vegan diet.
Vegan is murder.

Link to case

[CollinG3G4]

So the arguments against humans consuming meat have come down to a squabble between whether humans are omnivores, herbivores, or carnivores ? Christ, pick a general biology text or better yet, ask someone with a university degree in the field.

Personally, the individuals against meat eating would have a much better argument if they realized a few things: 1. People don't care if meat production is harmful to the earth. 2. People don't care if meat is "murder" 3. The human digestive tract does a fine job of digesting cooked meat protein just as it does vegetation. The digestive system has certainly not lost its capacity to handle animal proteins. And until it does, meat is on the menu.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for less meat with a diet consisting of more fruits, vegetables, nuts, and what have you, but the complete removal of meat from the human diet is ridiculous.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain 

Not one vegetarian, none, started life that way.
No herbivore mammal ever started life as a vegetarian.
Mammals rely on their mothers milk for sustinance.
Animal product. Not vegan at all.

You confuse vegetarian and vegan, Cap'n.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by CollinG3G4 

Personally, the individuals against meat eating would have a much better argument if they realized a few things: 1. People don't care if meat production is harmful to the earth. 2. People don't care if meat is "murder" 3. The human digestive tract does a fine job of digesting cooked meat protein just as it does vegetation. The digestive system has certainly not lost its capacity to handle animal proteins. And until it does, meat is on the menu.

That ain't the argument.

The real argument is something like this:

You eat meat. I don't. Fair enough.
I drive a gas-guzzling SUV. Perhaps you don't.

Our carbon footprints would be roughly equal. So until you guys stop eating meat (i.e. caring about the harm meat production does to the planet), stop trying to force me out of my SUV.

It's a "log in your own eye" kind of argument.

[CollinG3G4]

Hey, as long as you're driving that SUV in a responsible fashion more power to ya.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by CollinG3G4 

Hey, as long as you're driving that SUV in a responsible fashion more power to ya.

See, that's the kind of answer I like. Live and let live, etc..

Unfortunately, it's rare.

[Rumor]

A Jeep is not an SUV. A Jeep can effectively go offroad.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

A Jeep is not an SUV. A Jeep can effectively go offroad.

Permission to print a big bumper sticker reading "Rumor says that Jeeps aren't SUVs, so go screw yourselves you stupid hippies" please?

[Rumor]

Permission granted.

Run some hippies over while your at it. I'm sure petrulli oil isn't good for air quality.

[tie]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

That ain't the argument.

The real argument is something like this:

You eat meat. I don't. Fair enough.
I drive a gas-guzzling SUV. Perhaps you don't.

Our carbon footprints would be roughly equal. So until you guys stop eating meat (i.e. caring about the harm meat production does to the planet), stop trying to force me out of my SUV.

It's a "log in your own eye" kind of argument.

Of course, then someone comes along who doesn't eat meat and doesn't drive an SUV, and Doofy's whole "I'm screwing up the environment, yes, but it's okay since that other guy is, too" falls flat.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by tie 

Of course, then someone comes along who doesn't eat meat and doesn't drive an SUV, and Doofy's whole "I'm screwing up the environment, yes, but it's okay since that other guy is, too" falls flat.

That wasn't my argument. It's folks telling others what to do when they're themselves just as guilty which annoys me.

Like Al Gore, for example.

[design219]

Come on people, can't we all just be perfect? I mean, really, is that asking too much?

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by design219 

Come on people, can't we all just be perfect? I mean, really, is that asking too much?

...you rang?

[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

You confuse vegetarian and vegan, Cap'n.

Ummm, wht's the difference?

[Uncle Skeleton]

vegetarians don't care about abusing animals for food, they're just too weak kneed to actually eat the flesh

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain 

Ummm, wht's the difference?

Veggies don't eat meat or fish (or any derivative such as rennet or gelatin).
Vegans don't eat meat, fish, dairy or honey. And generally don't tend to wear leather, silk or wool.

[Sky Captain]

Without a modern food cultivation, transport and storage systems.
Not to mention vitamin supplimants, the vegan and vegitarian "lifestyle" is almost impossible.
Especially in the winter.
It's a created lifestyle, not a natural one.

And mammals still consume mother's milk as babies.

[Uncle Skeleton]

vegan yes, vegetarian no. Aren't there several major world religions that mandate vegetarianism? In regions that for the most part can't afford vitamin regimens and mass refrigeration anyways? I have a hard time believing any religion (besides scientology) can't survive without industry.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain 

Without a modern food cultivation, transport and storage systems.
Not to mention vitamin supplimants, the vegan and vegitarian "lifestyle" is almost impossible.
Especially in the winter.
It's a created lifestyle, not a natural one.

Sorry, no. Until the industrial revolution, hardly anyone ate meat as it was far too expensive.

Give me an acre and a cold cellar and I could feed a family of four all year round without too much hassle. And no need for supplements either - I've been veggie for nigh on 20 years without any supplements whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Sky Captain 

And mammals still consume mother's milk as babies.

I'm still not seeing your point.

[Sky Captain]

Consuming mother's milk is not vegetarian. At all.
Without a cellar, one would have to hunt game in the winter.
Without cultivation, one would have to hunt game.
If crops fail one would have to hunt/trap/fish.
It is not a natural diet.

Please tell me how Inuits gather and cultivate vegetables?

And I assume you're referring to preindustrial revolution Europe.
The peasant class was not allowed to hunt. Nothing to do with expense but government of the people.

Now in the New World, meat was readily available. Pre-industrial.
The Native Americans hunted game.
If anyone was in tune with environmentalism, it was them.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain 

Consuming mother's milk is not vegetarian. At all.

Yes it is. Which bit of "vegetarians drink milk" are you not getting?

Further discussion is pointless as you're simply not listening. You've been told the difference between veggie and vegan already yet you still have it in your head that veggies don't do milk.

[Sky Captain]

I've got the flu and am woozy headed...


Choosing to be vegetarian is still just that, a choice.
It's an artificial lifestyle.
More power to 'em.
Just don't try and convince me of something that is not true.

[tie]

Doofy, never argue with Sky Captain.

Originally Posted by Doofy 

That wasn't my argument. It's folks telling others what to do when they're themselves just as guilty which annoys me.

Like Al Gore, for example.

Well, Al Gore is certainly very annoying. But justifying your behavior by saying that some other guy is "just as guilty" as you are is a terrible argument. (You'd do better if you avoided the word "guilty" since you can't win if you frame the argument in terms of morality.)

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by tie 

Well, Al Gore is certainly very annoying. But justifying your behavior by saying that some other guy is "just as guilty" as you are is a terrible argument. (You'd do better if you avoided the word "guilty" since you can't win if you frame the argument in terms of morality.)

Point is, the environmentalistas are expecting me to change my lifestyle without lifting a finger to change their own. You can bet that when they introduce carbon rationing, meat won't be in the list of stuff which produces CO2.

It's strange how the cure for global warming is to ban/restrict things which "the left" has always hated - luxury cars, capitalist industry, etc..
Kind of makes you think that it's all just political control BS which the left is now using as a way to destroy western society, what with communism having been discredited with the fall of the USSR.

As for Al Gore... ...Well, the Gores have always been into scare-mongering as a way to earn money, status and visibility. Remember Tipper with the PMRC?

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

It's strange how the cure for global warming is to ban/restrict things which "the left" has always hated - luxury cars, capitalist industry, etc..

You may want to rethink that statement.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

You may want to rethink that statement.

No.

You may want to take it in and think about it.

[Rumor]

Blanket statement.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

Blanket statement.

And yours wasn't?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain 

Now in the New World, meat was readily available. Pre-industrial.
The Native Americans hunted game.
If anyone was in tune with environmentalism, it was them.

Indeed

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Yes it is. Which bit of "vegetarians drink milk" are you not getting?

But the rest of his argument was valid. You have to atleast give him that.

[Sky Captain]

The socialist society that the left clamors for cannot be achieved without artifical means.

It's strange how the cure for global warming is to ban/restrict things which "the left" has always hated - luxury cars, capitalist industry, etc..
Kind of makes you think that it's all just political control BS which the left is now using as a way to destroy western society, what with communism having been discredited with the fall of the USSR.

Bingo

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

But the rest of his argument was valid. You have to atleast give him that.

I'll concede some of it. But mostly it's a complex historical issue which I can't be bothered to pick apart (I have too many planks of wood all screaming "play me, play me!").

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I'll concede some of it. But mostly it's a complex historical issue which I can't be bothered to pick apart (I have too many planks of wood all screaming "play me, play me!").

Dirty!