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Zimphire · Jan 19, 2004, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by vmpaul:
Listen buddy, I'm not interested in trading insults with you. I thought I made that clear. Your position was weak, your arguments even weaker. You shot your wad and all you have left is to lash out at me. Nobody cares.

Go away.

If you are trying to convince us or whoever you are not interesting in trading insults, you failed.

Er I mean failed again.

Zimphire · 02:21 PM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Hey! Stop insulting Dio! They're one of my favorite "hair/metal" bands... along with Dokken and Iron Maiden). Ronnie's lyrics make far more sense than benign's.

Both Dio and benign try to muddy their waters to appear deep.

That was my point.

benign posts in the way he does hoping people will see him as some sort of super-intellectual person. But he isn't too good at it, so it comes off amateurish and pretentious.

If he would actually spend more time debating, and less time worrying about 'structure" maybe he wouldn't say the same things over and over again ad-nauseum.

But then again, he has shown himself to be a one-trick pony already.

Forcing even the people who share his ideals, to not take him seriously.

Zimphire · Jan 19, 2004, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by benign:

Do you want mummy to bring
something that you can swallow
and not get off the fence for ?
find non-superstitious ideas too
flavorsome.

How are you finding school ?

In other words, you have nothing more to add to this discussion.

Shaddim · Jan 19, 2004, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by benign:
In a single stroke you debase
every religions validity.

Man has no knowledge of, or could
ever know the plans or reasoning
of any possible creator -
but can only sniff at where his butt
might have been. That is the value
of all religious texts and the men
who maintain them.

This is my understanding of what
it means to be human and trying
to make sense of it through superstitious
reasoning. It is all man made sophistry
and empowering lies.

We are all the same - alone and without
reason - all we have is each other and
the possibility of a better tomorrow.

Huh??? Oh, it's just you with the same old BS.

OH, BTW, Zimph I wasn't being serious... was a joke (the Dio thing). Yeah, I like `em, but I wasn't being critical.

Zimphire · Jan 19, 2004, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
:OH, BTW, Zimph I wasn't being serious... was a joke (the Dio thing). Yeah, I like `em, but I wasn't being critical.

Good, you were scaring me.

Stradlater · Jan 19, 2004, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by benign:

Fence sitting cowboy...

Do you want mummy to bring
something that you can swallow
and not get off the fence for ?
find non-superstitious ideas too
flavorsome.

How are you finding school ?

Eh? Speak English please. Are you saying I'm superstitious? Finding school?

Stradlater · Jan 19, 2004, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by benign:
In a single stroke you debase
every religions validity.

Wow, he's talented. You're still lumping too many religions into the same group. Do some research.

Shaddim · Jan 19, 2004, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by Stradlater:
Wow, he's talented. You're still lumping too many religions into the same group. Do some research.

Guess I didn't know my own strength.

undotwa · Jan 21, 2004, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Right one? The "messianic"/Christ consciousness is a part of all cultures and has been revealed to them in the way that it can best be understood by them. Whatever they call their "Christ" (ie. Jesus, Buddah, Krishnah, Balder, Dionysus, Osiris/Horus, etc.) is irrelevant, they're all a part of the same ideal. All are archetypes for the same "being".

"A Rose by any other name..."

To some extent, yes. It is believed by most Christians (including the Catholic Church) that these leaders are not wrong, but they are not 100% true. They show 'elements' of the truth.

korn · Jan 21, 2004, 07:41 AM

!! I've been out of the lounge and missed this thread......
...Amazing and frightening...
...quoting the bible as if it contains scientific evidence is very, very frightening...
..if this is the way the USA is going, then... God bless us all!

sanity assassin · Jan 21, 2004, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by MacNStein:

Right one? The "messianic"/Christ consciousness is a part of all cultures and has been revealed to them in the way that it can best be understood by them. Whatever they call their "Christ" (ie. Jesus, Buddah, Krishnah, Balder, Dionysus, Osiris/Horus, etc.) is irrelevant, they're all a part of the same ideal. All are archetypes for the same "being".

"A Rose by any other name..."

That is one huge leap of conjecture there. It's one thing to note that many, not all, but many cultures have an archetypal hero/saviour; but to assume that it's Messianic/Christ is to apply very Judaic/Christian characteristics to completely different personalities, and is stretching things too much.

What's more likely? that we humans who came out from a small group in Africa carrying traditions, stories, and basic human traits? ; or that we had some Messianic figures, whose connections are tenuous, 'revealed' to us over time?

Shaddim · Jan 21, 2004, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by sanity assassin:

That is one huge leap of conjecture there. It's one thing to note that many, not all, but many cultures have an archetypal hero/saviour; but to assume that it's Messianic/Christ is to apply very Judaic/Christian characteristics to completely different personalities, and is stretching things too much.

What's more likely? that we humans who came out from a small group in Africa carrying traditions, stories, and basic human traits? ; or that we had some Messianic figures, whose connections are tenuous, 'revealed' to us over time? [/B]

Jung theorized that all cultures are revealed the "truth" in their own time and in a way that they would best understand, my statement about "Christ" and a messianic consciousness is, IMO, a global phenomena. Yes, I believe any culture that has evolved to a certain evolutionary point "gives birth" to a particular archetype which is the ideal of what the perfect human could be... one that is in complete touch with "the Divine" yet also of flesh.

Also, fossil records would indicate that man came out of Africa and the Middle East some 140-150K years ago. I doubt very seriously that a particular ideology would survive that long, given man's primative state at that time. FWIW, I can see those individuals having a very basic concept of a "God", but nothing on the order of anything even remotely organized or uniform.

sanity assassin · Jan 21, 2004, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Jung theorized that all cultures are revealed the "truth" in their own time and in a way that they would best understand, my statement about "Christ" and a messianic consciousness is, IMO, a global phenomena. Yes, I believe any culture that has evolved to a certain evolutionary point "gives birth" to a particular archetype which is the ideal of what the perfect human could be... one that is in complete touch with "the Divine" yet also of flesh.

Also, fossil records would indicate that man came out of Africa and the Middle East some 140-150K years ago. I doubt very seriously that a particular ideology would survive that long, given man's primative state at that time. FWIW, I can see those individuals having a very basic concept of a "God", but nothing on the order of anything even remotely organized or uniform.

The African example was a bad one, although we did come out of Africa, there's another theory out there that modern man suffered a cataclym which reduced the population to just a few thousand, and in which we descend from.
But I guess the point is that, just like psychological profiles today have a basis in the ancient world (Babylonian eniagram for example); so can human ideologies, and the creation of ideas, rolled up into Gods. They have a far more reasonable explanation, in which we have carried these notions, built them up over millenia, rather than assuming we have had them revealed from a higher power.

I take issue with quite a few of Jung's theories, Joseph Campbell would also put together an altogether different hypothesis on the archetypal hero in the ancient world.

We could put revelation into why this happened, but isn't it more likely that we are just predisposed to creating Gods/saviours that reflect our highest ideals, reflect our perceived salvation?

Athens · Feb 13, 2005, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by sanity assassin:
The African example was a bad one, although we did come out of Africa, there's another theory out there that modern man suffered a cataclym which reduced the population to just a few thousand, and in which we descend from.
But I guess the point is that, just like psychological profiles today have a basis in the ancient world (Babylonian eniagram for example); so can human ideologies, and the creation of ideas, rolled up into Gods. They have a far more reasonable explanation, in which we have carried these notions, built them up over millenia, rather than assuming we have had them revealed from a higher power.

I take issue with quite a few of Jung's theories, Joseph Campbell would also put together an altogether different hypothesis on the archetypal hero in the ancient world.

We could put revelation into why this happened, but isn't it more likely that we are just predisposed to creating Gods/saviours that reflect our highest ideals, reflect our perceived salvation?

Maybe we came from mars

roberto blanco · Feb 13, 2005, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by sanity assassin:
...but isn't it more likely that we are just predisposed to creating Gods/saviours that reflect our highest ideals, reflect our perceived salvation?

you don't need to study cultural anthropolgy for a long time to figure out that such a hypothesis is completely false.

once you get down to the "nitty gritty" though, you realise that there are virtually no "religious" (the idea of "religion" in itself reflects a western bias) universals.

moonmonkey · Feb 13, 2005, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by Athens:
Maybe we came from mars

I want this to be the last post ever made in this thread.

The last one.

sugar_coated · Feb 13, 2005, 09:39 AM

We are stardust.

Randman · Feb 13, 2005, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
I want this to be the last post ever made in this thread.

The last one.

Yeah, me too.

moonmonkey · Feb 13, 2005, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Randman:
Yeah, me too.

me too.

Stradlater · Feb 13, 2005, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
me too.

Me three. This thread is not Jesus.

MilkmanDan · Feb 13, 2005, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
I want this to be the last post ever made in this thread.

The last one.

If only we could be so lucky.

Though one of my college room mates believes that the 1) the earth is only 6000 years old 2) The dinosaurs and people lived together on earth up until the Flood 3) Dragons in ancient stories are Dinosaurs 4) That he will one day get a Physics PHD.

brapper · Feb 13, 2005, 05:30 PM

hey, what's going on in here?

Face Ache · Feb 13, 2005, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by MilkmanDan:
Though one of my college room mates believes that...

...Dragons in ancient stories are Dinosaurs...

If you found a dinosaur skeleton 1000 years ago, what would you make of it?

Scientist · Feb 13, 2005, 08:07 PM

Wow, this thread brings back some crazy memories. Fortunately I am now dating a level headed agnostic. No more young earth creationists for me!

demograph68 · Feb 13, 2005, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Scientist:
Wow, this thread brings back some crazy memories. Fortunately I am now dating a level headed agnostic. No more young earth creationists for me!

Sweet

olePigeon · Feb 13, 2005, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by Face Ache:
If you found a dinosaur skeleton 1000 years ago, what would you make of it?

Uh... I'd make a dinosaur.

itistoday · Feb 13, 2005, 09:15 PM

Why the fuck is this thread so long????

SimpleLife · Feb 13, 2005, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by itistoday:
Why the fuck is this thread so long????

This thread is now about its lenght.

i_rooster · Feb 13, 2005, 09:19 PM

I guess it takes a lot of discussion here to convince oneself that earth is older than 4000 years!?

hyteckit · Feb 13, 2005, 09:38 PM

Holy Crap. Time flies. This thread is over 1 freakin year old. I can't believe it. I'm getting old quick. Another reason to believe the Earth has to be more than 4000 years old.

sugar_coated · 10:01 PM

This question will be debated for as long as humans live. It may very well be possible that we are actually aliens on this planet and we arrived about 4000 years ago form a similar planet far far away. This is not a new thought if people have read Erich Daniken's works.

phantomdragonz · Feb 13, 2005, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by itistoday:
Why the fuck is this thread so long????

because it just fucking is... damnit!

Zach

Athens · Feb 13, 2005, 11:57 PM

it just shows how boring things use to be lol

itistoday · 12:15 AM

Originally posted by Athens:
it just shows how boring things use to be lol

Or how dumb people used to be... oh wait... I guess not much has changed. There's still lots of people unable to face reality.

historylme · Feb 14, 2005, 01:52 AM

I'm all for never seeing this thread again.

When I think of zombie threads, this one defines the term.

Crazy **** that it still going.

Xeo · Feb 14, 2005, 01:58 AM

Well this thread is locked for a couple reasons. First and foremost, religious topics no longer go here and therefore, I'd have to move this one. Second, moving is worthless because the topic isn't even being discussed, 90% of 2005 posts in this thread are about the thread being long and old. So bye-bye. Another time perhaps.