[iloveOSX]

hi scot.

how's the java going to be in 10.1? (from a developers point of view. i am intersted in making full apps with java and was wondering what the speed of screen redraws and controls were like.)

(anything you can state publically?)


thanks

Originally posted by TNproud2b:
<STRONG>In response to Yeti:

(1) WinME is running great until you install non-Microsoft freeware, some of which is 'beta' (ICQ). No kidding? (insert rolleye smiley here) Well, it's either that or the RAM, you say. Did Microsoft sell you that RAM?

(2) You're describing a hardware issue related to the cold cathode backlighting in your Dell TFT LCD flatpanel. Did Microsoft manufacture that flatpanel backlight assembly?

(3) Typical Microsoft glitch. You'll grow to love 'em. Just don't ever leave the IE browser window and your problem is gone.


Your score: 1 for 3</STRONG>

Oh silly TNproud2b...don't you realize that an OS is supposed to run on computers? Especially computers made specifically for the aforementioned OS by one of the largest producers/distributors of home PCs with that OS? Shouldn't it recognize an important thing such as RAM?

hohohoho...

I didn't even get past the shareware glitches. Oh TNproud2b...I have many more glitches where those came from -- and of the non-shareware variety as well.

4) While listening to mp3s (oh, oh, wait a minute...NOT on winamp...no, I learned my lesson early about winamp) on WMP (stands for Worst Media Player), I cannot, under any circumstances open Microsoft Word. It's just not allowed...I still can't figure it out...What's that? Sound Card you say? Well, even if it is that, please note my statement regarding an OS (and complicitly, apps) and its purpose to run on computers using hardware on computers.

5) this is not a new point, but rather a reiteration of my earlier comments regarding Microsoft's online ME updates. One of the files Microsoft's server tried to send me had a virus...come on...if I hadn't turned off auto update and if I'd left "always trust files from Microsoft" on...I'd be screwed (well, more screwed than I already am owning this chunk o' garbage)

6) um getting back to my problem with the blue screens of death...you blame it on shareware (ICQ)...what about Microsoft Outlook Express (the reason that I am a proud Eudora owner) Shareware? These problems happen with the software bundled with the OS...

7) well, at least it plays games great. Oh, wait, no...it doesn't do that either...it sucks all my system resources so games are played slower than they should be. (NOTE: this did NOT happen with 98)

ok...I've said enough for today. If I haven't listed enough problems to convince you that ME is total crap, please let me know cause I can have some friends hop on the boards and let you know all the crap they've had to deal with.

-Yeti

[TNproud2b]

It wasn't a virus. In fact, it's well well known that many, many things can be mis-diagnosed as a virus. Also, I have a theory about people that need virus-detection software - those are the dolts that will get a virus.

Sorry, RAM 'detection' is a function of the motherboad BIOS - NOT the operating system. See Dell about that.

Hey, at least Windows supports most hardware made in the last 10 years - something that can't be said for OSX, which was made to run on a half-dozen platforms manufactured exclusively for the maker of OSX...go figure.

[TC]

Originally posted by TNproud2b:
<STRONG>Also, I have a theory about people that need virus-detection software - those are the dolts that will get a virus.</STRONG>

Do you have a theory about the people who wear seat belts being the people who will crash their cars? Maybe your theories should be kept to yourself, just like your offensive signature.

<STRONG>
Hey, at least Windows supports most hardware made in the last 10 years - something that can't be said for OSX, which was made to run on a half-dozen platforms manufactured exclusively for the maker of OSX...go figure.</STRONG>

What sort of hardware are you talking about, the motherboard and processor or cards/peripherals? Of course Windows ME can support hardware from 10 years ago, it still has DOS as its base. Windows NT which was a fresh start for M$ didn�t support half as much hardware. A lot of those hardware drivers would be written by other companies not by M$, give them some time and we will see this happen for OS X.

Mac OS X is a leap into a new OS for Mac users. If your system isn�t up to it then just run 9.2, it�s a great OS, better than Windows ME. If you want to be running OS X then you need a recent computer. If you are getting good performance and 100% hardware support running Windows XP on a 10 year old PC then well done, sure it is really zippy for you.

Just in case you think I am just a mac user who will stand up for macs no matter what I should tell you since 1991 I have used the following systems:
Windows 3.11,95,98,ME,NT,2000
Solaris, HP-UX, IRIX, Linux Suse + Red Hat
Amiga OS
Mac OS 8-9.2, OS X

Most productive + enjoyable OS to use of all these is OS X + it can only get better.

[TNproud2b]

nevermind.


*offensive signature below*

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: TNproud2b ]

[edddeduck]

TNproud2B

Your don't burn cows is really offensive

I live in a rural area of the UK and the entire country has be hit my this

It has corsed many people in the UK to lose there homes, jobs ,familys through stress and even in some cases their lives.

This is a country in serious pain when it comes to farming.

I understand you might think it was a funny joke but to some it brings up memorys of things which are stil happening over hear.

Edd

[TC]

Originally posted by edddeduck:
<STRONG>It has corsed many people in the UK to lose there homes, jobs ,familys through stress and even in some cases their lives.

This is a country in serious pain when it comes to farming.

I understand you might think it was a funny joke but to some it brings up memorys of things which are stil happening over hear.

Edd</STRONG>

I come originally from a farming community in the UK and there is absolutely nothing funny about the foot + mouth crisis in the UK.

At the end of the day these forums are supposed to be for discussing computing issues, not for taking jibes at the problems of people in other countries.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by TC:
<STRONG>I come originally from a farming community in the UK and there is absolutely nothing funny about the foot + mouth crisis in the UK.
</STRONG>

cows are the big things that go "mmmmoooooh!" and got burned for BSE (as in "bovine"), not foot & mouth.

[TNproud2b]

Since it was kinda dated - and I believe you truly are offended - and you asked nicely

I changed my sig.

I have a feeling it will still offend a handful of people here, tho.

*makes a run for the door*

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: TNproud2b ]

[Person Man]

Originally posted by godzookie2k:
<STRONG>They promised an OS that ran fully functional on a list of hardware. Nowhere did I see that 10.0 was feature incomplete. On Apple's site or on the box or anywhere outside of these boards and others like them. Even C|Net's review didn't say that, neither did any of the other reviews I have read on it (post purchase).
</STRONG>

Back in 1995 they promised an OS that would run fully functional on all hardware at that time.

I bought a 7600 in June of 1996. They promised that Rhapsody would run on that machine. In 1998 they promised that OS X would run on the first iMac. Maybe at all those times, they were right.

But, now it is 2001, and in computer terms, machines made in 1998 are OLD NEWS. Be glad you have any support AT ALL.

[Amorph]

The problem here is that people are applying very simple analyses to a complicated situation.

As we all know, OS X's release date was slipping, and slipping and slipping. Apple had to announce a firm date for a release of a final version, because the Curse of the Next-Generation OS was starting to loom large in the minds of their users, and shareholders, and pundits. So they prettied up what they had as best they could for the people who would need it most - developers - packaged it up in retail clothing because they had to get the system out in retail packaging, and downplayed the introduction because they knew what they were shipping.

In other words, Apple used triage to get out of a real bind.

Was it the best possible way out? Maybe not. It's easy to judge in retrospect. Would I be happier if 10.0 looked like 10.1 apparently will? Sure, who wouldn't? I'll bet Apple would be too. It's not ignoring anything about the real drawbacks of 10.0 to assert that the furor about deliberate fraud and false advertising is itself unfair and misleading. It's not blind Apple worship to suggest that they should be cut some slack for choosing their compromises carefully in order to make a deadline, and making it an easy and obvious process to send feedback to Apple about the OS.

I've been hearing about "the next MacOS" since I started using Macs in 1986. As a purely symbolic act, it was an immense relief to see it ship. Even if it was rough. Even if there were things missing. Even if it was slow.
I'm not thrilled about spending $20 for 10.1, but a) I'll wait and see if I have to, and b) I'm not horrified, either. It's $20 for new boot CDs, a manual, and a massive overhaul of the OS. I certainly feel better about spending that than I did about paying $99 for 8.5.
As an aside: How do I know OS X 10.0.0 was targeted at developers?

1) Name one other MacOS release that came with dev tools;

2) Around the time of the Public Beta, there were any number of development houses being rather vocal about the fact that they wouldn't start OS X development until it was shipping - an attitude left over from the long string of failed attempts, abandoned technologies, broken promises and missed deadlines that led to OS X in the first place;

3) Apple hyped OS X to developers, at WWDC and in their mailing lists, and on the developer sites. Developers saw the hype - and also the caveats and provisos about what would be missing, why, and when they hoped to ship updates. How much mainstream advertising did they do, before they'd patched 10.0.4 into a workable OS?

That's enough for me. I don't need the package to read "THIS RELEASE IS INTENDED FOR DEVELOPERS" written in 64 point boldface across the front to get the idea.

[Orbit]

Wow... haven't posted here in awhile, but felt the need to comment on something I found particularly ridiculous. Somebody actually on these boards defending Windows ME??? Come on, seriously now. NOBODY defends ME, not even Windows zealots! It's an awful amalgamation of legacy technologies, with no finesse whatsoever... I have many friends at Microsoft who won't touch it with a ten foot pole. I mean, if you're gonna actually waste your time and troll these boards (which is pretty pathetic in and of itself) at least compare apples to apple and laud the virtues of Windows 2000 or Linux, or *something* not based on the Win95 architecture. You don't see us talking about the infallible nature of OS 9...

Additionally, from personal experience, 10.1 is MUCH better on the speed front... and if you make comments to the effect of "they should've gotten the speed right on the first try" then sorry my friend, you haven't written a line of code in your entire life.

Anyway, hope everyone is okay after the events of yesterday... I'm done ranting for awhile.

[TC]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
<STRONG>

cows are the big things that go "mmmmoooooh!" and got burned for BSE (as in "bovine"), not foot & mouth.</STRONG>

You don�t know sh1t sherlock!
We have had 2 major problems concerning cows in the UK, the spread of BSE was nowhere near as widespread as the recent, still ongoing in some places, spread of foot + mouth. Hundreds of thousands of animals, cows, sheep + pigs, were burnt because of foot + mouth.

And on the subject of signatures, every time I have to see the end of the dolphin screwing site on your sig it makes me feel sick. I would have thought you where too far away from the sea in Germany to get your hands on a dolphin, or do you live near an aquarium?

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: TC ]

[cyberdogX]

look, Apple advertised 10.0 as an actual release, but then whispered that it really was for early adopters. so the message was that most things were within acceptable tolerances. some tings were, and others were't, but in my opinion they underestimated what people would consider to be a "release". this should have been PB2, and not marketed as a release. but all in all, i'm glad i bought it, and if it's only twenty bucks to upgrade, i'm good with that.

Originally posted by cyberdogX:
<STRONG> look, Apple advertised 10.0 as an actual release, but then whispered that it really was for early adopters. so the message was that most things were within acceptable tolerances. some tings were, and others were't, but in my opinion they underestimated what people would consider to be a "release". this should have been PB2, and not marketed as a release. but all in all, i'm glad i bought it, and if it's only twenty bucks to upgrade, i'm good with that.</STRONG>

That's the most rational post I've seen on this topic.

I agree fully. What's done is done.

[Cotton]

I was thinking free because you still have the hassle of opening classic to run a lot of stuff

[Cotton]

and it's only 6 months old

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by TC:
<STRONG>You don�t know sh1t sherlock!
We have had 2 major problems concerning cows in the UK, the spread of BSE was nowhere near as widespread as the recent, still ongoing in some places, spread of foot + mouth. Hundreds of thousands of animals, cows, sheep + pigs, were burnt because of foot + mouth.

And on the subject of signatures, every time I have to see the end of the dolphin screwing site on your sig it makes me feel sick. I would have thought you where too far away from the sea in Germany to get your hands on a dolphin, or do you live near an aquarium?</STRONG>

OK. I wasn't aware that foot&mouth was a bovine problem as well - we had our huge issue with it here "on the continent", but that was limited to sheep & pigs. I also wasn't being terribly serious about the matter, as the tone may have indicated (apparently not).

As for the sig:
A brief look on the map should tell you that Hamburg is a *lot* closer to the sea than Milan is to Britain - although there aren't too many dolphins in the North or Baltic Seas AFAIK, true.

I figured that there might possibly be the one or other humo(u)r-impaired reader on these fora when I chose my sig text, but decided that that was really their (read: "your") problem.

For the record: I do not have sex with dolphins. I do not know anyone who has sex with dolphins. Just dogs, cats, cows, snails, barstools, the occasional yak, and Englishmen.

We return you now to your regularly scheduled program.

-chris.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
<STRONG>For the record: I do not have sex with dolphins. I do not know anyone who has sex with dolphins. Just dogs, cats, cows, snails, barstools, the occasional yak, and Englishmen.
</STRONG>

Actually, to clear the air for future humor-impaired on the boards, this might be a good sig as well...

[Aussie John]

For the record: I do not have sex with dolphins. I do not know anyone who has sex with dolphins. Just dogs, cats, cows, snails, barstools, the occasional yak, and Englishmen.

good one Spheric Harlot.
Some ppl just dont know how to have a joke.

of course we dont like to mention the war�but how did Hitlar get all those u boats into the Atlantic. Must have dragged em.

�but not wishing to make light of serious problems I am glad i live in Australia where BSE, foot & mouth and for that matter planes flying into buildings is not as likely as many other places.

[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: Aussie John ]

[TC]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
<STRONG>
I figured that there might possibly be the one or other humo(u)r-impaired reader on these fora when I chose my sig text, but decided that that was really their (read: "your") problem.
</STRONG>

I was taking the p*ss cos you sound like a dolphin shagger, but of course I forgot you are from Germany. You�re world famous for "your" incredible sense of humo(u)r.

Don�t waste your time with any English or Italian jibes as I am neither.

Can�t really have a dig at John as there are some funny Aussies and they gave the world the Minogue sisters, but Germany gave David Hasselhof a successful singing career!!!

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by TC:
<STRONG>Can�t really have a dig at John as there are some funny Aussies and they gave the world the Minogue sisters, but Germany gave David Hasselhof a successful singing career!!!</STRONG>

Ouch! That really hurt...believe me, I am as embarrassed about David Hasselhoff as I am about Modern Talking.

Let's just stop right here, since arguing the merits of national cultures is almost, if not entirely, pointless - except in jest, perhaps, but I suspect you would have problems with my sense of humor.

One thing though, regarding the dolphinsex quote:
I am somewhat fascinated with the truly bizarre. And the quote, to me, epitomizes what exactly I find so bizarre about that site.

you english are barbaric. the minogue sisters can suck my footlong!

[xi_hyperon]

Originally posted by &lt;usamaster&gt;:
<STRONG>you english are barbaric. the minogue sisters can suck my footlong!</STRONG>

alright... who in here left open the troll-door again?

[TC]

Cool, glad that is all sorted.

You can never go wrong with a foot long.

I like putting peppers on my footlongs. Then I eat the foot long.

[theolein]

Originally posted by ZO:
<STRONG>how can you "20$ is nothing and I'll pay for it" people say that?

dont you get it? nobody was warned that half the stuff didnt work... and now you have to pay MORE to make it work BETTER (not even well... nor 'perfectly')

Yes, the OS may WORK... but I want it to work WELL and with everything I have that used to work!

Do ALL of you accept mediocrity like this? Or are you all brainwashed to accept everything Apple throws at you? OS X was not complete when it shipped... the fact that they charde you even MORE to fix their errors is horrible.

PS Whoever said it was going to be 3CDs?

PPS And WHO IS THE MORON who is calculating 20$ PER BOX/UPDATE that has to cover salaries, etc? Apple could easily help feed the families of people at CD replication companies even at 3$/update. Yeesh.</STRONG>

Uhm.. Since you think apple is an unfair company, what then are your views on Microsoft, WinXP, mp3 support on WinXP,Smarttags and Product Activation?

[theolein]

Originally posted by &lt;Yeti&gt;:
<STRONG>

Ok...I feel like I should let you in on something here. I am a PC user...At the beginning of this year I purchased a Dell Laptop with Windows ME installed. Please bear in mind here that I did so at a time when Wintel boxes were being shipped with ME as the one and only OS. This was Microsoft's next big thing and they backed it as their newest consumer Home PC OS...

Do you guys, being Mac Users, really need me to list all the problems I'm having? Not just me either...but EVERY SINGLE PERSON I'VE MET who is still running ME (most people drop it and install 98SE but I'm lazy and sort of amused by how crappy this product is).

Let's see where to start...ok, I'll just give you the problems this beast had when it came out of the box...

1) Multiple blue screens...so far I've narrowed it down to A) ME can't deal with my Ram setup...as in it has no idea how much ram I have on how many chips on whatever number of slots... or B) One of the following programs that I have installed on this piece is not compatible with the OS and that freaks ME (Microsoft's version of ME not me, Yeti) out. The guilty program is one of the following (or...possibly all of the following): AIM, Netscape, iMesh, ICQ, Palm Desktop, or Eudora. When I don't run any of these programs everything is fine.

2) You guys have problems with brightness keys not working in X? How about in ME world where each tap of the brightness key turns the left side of the screen almost completely dark? This when I'm trying to make the screen brighter (admittedly this could be a problem with Dell's components)

3) Oh yeah, this one is my favorite...ME won't let me click on a weblink that exists inside of any app other than IE. If I try it: instant Freeze. Every time.

There are more...but those are the most fun...ok, now let's talk tech support: Microsoft's website offered me several downloads...they have done nothing...ONE CAME WITH A VIRUS!!!!!!!! Norton hooked me up on that one...I'm basically waiting till ME kills Norton...then a virus will kill the comp and the circle will be complete.

Oh, and DELL has no clue what is going on...I've spoken with them more than I have with my mother the past few months...and I'm starting to realize that my Mom definetly knows more about computers than their tech support.

So, should you be ticked that you are being asked to pay $20 bucks to upgrade to a usable O.S.??? NO WAY, because you'll have a sweet OS (I've seen it...it's beautiful...everything a Computer should be) that every PC user will be wishing they had (until Microsoft copies it and totally screws it up then all of us will be cursing it). And if you really can't do with the 20 dollar pricetag, you've always got OS 9 to fall back on...

count your blessings mac users, count 'em...

-the Yeti

Oh yeah...and if you're wondering why I'm still a PC user, don't worry, I am too...</STRONG>

Go tell em boy! I have a PC with Win98SE on it at home and it has for the most part been quite good. I'm pretty shocked at this actually because most of the Win's I've used have not exactly been stable. I use Win2k at work and it is stable but has some pretty nasty networking bugs in it that you can't do anything about because MS has no interest in compatibility with anyone else. My mac may be slow at home but OSX is a gem and each time I sit at the term I learn a little bit about Perl,ifconfig etc etc etc. And this knowledge I can transfer to Linux almost one to one.

I think OSX has a great future. I read often enough on these boards about Win users and Linux and Solaris guys coming on board, because this OS is so cool.

I agree that Scott_H has the right to disagree. That's what discussion is about. What is simply a bit irritating is that he says the same thing over and over again almost verbatim. I don't mean this personally Scott, but Everybody knows your position by now. Who are you trying to tell this to?

[mosespatrader]

OS X 1.0 is like a microsoft product, never buy the first version.

[itomato]

You should never expect much from a 1.0 release. Apple screwed up w/ the naming scheme (big time). If it had been a new name, and a version 1.0, people would know better than to get hung up on it. 10.0 implies that it's better than 9.0. We know better.

When Apple ships it on everything as the default OS (or the only OS) then you can justifiably complain about being duped if it doesn't live up to expectations. We all knew it would be broken. Apple said it would be broken.

(this is redundant.. I'll stop)