[Maflynn]

I'm profoundly disappointed. First the iPADification of OSX, and the now an apple netbook, albeit an expensive netbook.

My concern with 10.7 and its app store, is my ability to install apps outside of the app store. Plus the saving state/autosave will this impact multitasking, i.e., will OSX now embrace the iPhone's method for multitasking?

As for the MBA, I had my credit card ready to buy one, but given that its a 1,000 netbook, heck C2D is so 2006 and its only has 2gb of ram.

[turtle777]

Yeah, no shit, when will Apple deliver that $ 200 netbook

And of course, all those other cheap netbooks have much faster processors than a C2C, and sport a minimum of 4GB RAM

Can I have some of your dope ?

-t

[Maflynn]

Better to have my dope then apple's kool-aid

[voodoo]

That was one boring presentation! App store on the Mac? Well we've pretty much had that in iTunes, but well now it's Mac apps too.

Big whoop. It's not like finding apps on the Mac has ever been difficult. But now, I'll have the web *and* the Mac App store. Dumb.

Back to the Mac? No. Back to the iOS. Now this is basically the problem with Apple the last decade.. well ever since OS X was released actually, is that Apple has *never* not one single moment had one iota of inspiration for the UI.

The UI of the public beta was a terrible mishmash of an OS and the 'look and feel' of the gumdrop iMac of the time. The Apple menu was just an Apple-logo doing nothing (?!) in the middle of the menubar and everything was glowing and slow.

Since then the UI cycle has been something like this: Add a random feature or look to iTunes, see if it becomes popular -> plaster it all over.

What to do with the Finder? It was uninspired and inconsistent in 10.0-10.2 and then "eureka" make it like iTunes. That's popular!

Then come up with some random and unconnected ideas for UI, such as Dashboard and widgets, Exposé, the Dock and Spaces. Completely non-intuative and inconsistent between each other, but sure you can learn to use them ... much like you can learn command-line interface. It can even become second nature to use it, but it isn't good design.

And it isn't a good user experience.

Then came the iDevices. They're popular, thus their interface must be great!

It's a shotgun method of designing things: just blast in all directions and see what falls down. No thinking, no planning, no inspiration... and in nearly every single case an "update" is just to facilitate Apple to make a few more cents. Like the Mac App store.

Mac OS X Lion seems doomed from the beginning. It's not so much because it's inherently bad to have options or simplicity available as an option - but rather that it's un-inspireing and bolted on. Meanwhile established technology and interface lingers in the background..

And in the next update of OS X we can look forward to having the Finder UI, the iOS UI and the "next" UI whatever it is, all cluttering and essentially being a nuisance. None of them maintained very well, but hopefully no one will notice because of all the "new" UI features.

Less is more. Elegant is better. Steve whined about how boring it was being a janitor only a decade ago. Well, here we are, with multiple UIs in one system - essentially being janitors. Cleaning up and organizing between multiple UIs and visual metaphors.

New iLife and MBAs. Meh.. they're always being updated and there's no surprise there.

The only surprise is Lion, because it was such an unispired guess that Apple would start mixing iOS elements and the Mac OS X elements together - and such a dumb guess turned out to be true!

Irony of the day: the emphasis of iMovie and HD with all the great new amateur features to make cool looking full HD movies and no way to store or share them, because there's no Blu-ray drive on Macs.

But that irony, like the MBA update and the iLife update, was expected.

[ort888]

Did apple say that they are dong a 70/30 split on the app store? What developer is going to go for that? That seems a little ridiculous.

[Maflynn]

If I'm going to spend over a grand, I'd prefer to have some serious specs, an i5, more then 2gb of ram, something like what the 15" MBP is offering. I'd love to see the 13" MBP be refreshed with an i5 processor.

Its said apple is charging over a grand for 2006 technology when a sub 500 dollar netbook can do most of what the MBA can with an atom processor (albeit slower).

My dell mini 10, which is a hackintosh cost me 250 bucks, and has the same amount of ram, larger storage.

[Brien]

I'd have to agree, Voodoo. They touted the fact that they finally merged brushed/pinstripe/inspector UI modes into one consistent UI in Leopard, and seem to have drifted away from that again. I'd actually prefer one consistent UI, even if that meant that OS X looked like iOS. It really is random, and Apple breaks their own HIG all the time, especially with pro apps and iTunes (and now iPhone, apparently).

However, you are right about Apple back-porting iTunes UI "improvements" into OS X. Coverflow, Quicklook, the unified theme, and those vertical traffic lights all started in iTunes and have - or will become - a part of OS X.

[turtle777]

Meh, too many Apples to oranges comparison.

Get a MBP, but don't expect to get the small footprint.

-t

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Did apple say that they are dong a 70/30 split on the app store? What developer is going to go for that? That seems a little ridiculous.

Agreed when that can host their apps on macupdate for free. Of course if apple locks down 10.7 so only you can get apps through the app store, then that may force developers, but is a very poor business decision in of itself.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

What's up with the reasonable pricing?

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Don't worry:

That ends at the U.S. border.

I'll take that back.

€999 to €1599 - euro for dollar, incl. 19%VAT.

Now, I'd like them to move the Mac mini down from €800 back into non-silly range.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Meh, too many Apples to oranges comparison.

Get a MBP, but don't expect to get the small footprint.

-t

Agreed, I want a 13" laptop but preferably with an i5, not a c2d

[Brien]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

Agreed when that can host their apps on macupdate for free. Of course if apple locks down 10.7 so only you can get apps through the app store, then that may force developers, but is a very poor business decision in of itself.

I was talking to a friend on AIM about this a few minutes ago. Either the draw of the easy downloading, no searching will prove popular enough to snuff out update sites/the "old" way of getting apps, or Apple is releasing the App Store for 10.6 ahead of 10.7 so that they can use it as training wheels for the eventual locked-down 10.7. Here's how to tell: if they bundle the App Store as a forced point update (10.6.5 or 6.6, depending on release date), they're probably going to lock down 10.7.

[The Final Dakar]

Loving the panicked conjecture.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Brien 

I was talking to a friend on AIM about this a few minutes ago. Either the draw of the easy downloading, no searching will prove popular enough to snuff out update sites/the "old" way of getting apps, or Apple is releasing the App Store for 10.6 ahead of 10.7 so that they can use it as training wheels for the eventual locked-down 10.7. Here's how to tell: if they bundle the App Store as a forced point update (10.6.5 or 6.6, depending on release date), they're probably going to lock down 10.7.

I'll be impressed by Apple if they bait and switch developers.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

Agreed when that can host their apps on macupdate for free. Of course if apple locks down 10.7 so only you can get apps through the app store, then that may force developers, but is a very poor business decision in of itself.

Except nobody uses MacUpdate.

No, I'm quite serious: You and I and a handful of people on this forum do (or did; I haven't in years - I rarely search out stuff anymore).

But out in the real world, nobody knows about MacUpdate.

Application discovery on the Mac is Google, period.

(Which is why so many people have downloaded Xilisoft's spam-pushed iPhone/iPad video converter. The ****ing thing doesn't work, it's horrendous interface, but it's selling well. Then they ask somebody "in the know" and are amazed at the free - and functional - HandBrake.)

The App Store on the Mac is a GREAT idea - provided it never becomes the exclusive distribution mechanism (and I doubt it will).

[Maflynn]

What incentive is there for adobe, Microsoft, or any other vendor who now gets 100% of the sales

[Brien]

Piracy?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

What incentive is there for adobe, Microsoft, or any other vendor who now gets 100% of the sales

Incentive to do what?

[turtle777]

I'm not worried.

I doubt Apple will lock down OS X.

-t

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Except nobody uses MacUpdate.

fair enough, but people do use google, microsoft, adobe and of course amazon to get software. My point is that there are so many other ways to buy/download software and the authors of said software get all of the proceeds. Now apple wants a piece of the action and I don't see the folks from Panic software willing to fork over 30% of their proceeds when they sell a copy of transmit.

[Brien]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I'm not worried.

I doubt Apple will lock down OS X.

-t

Maybe, maybe not. Apple has done stupid things before, though.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by maflynn 

now apple wants a piece of the action

nm.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Incentive to do what?

Sorry I should have quoted the poster I was responding too.

What incentive is there for those companies to stop selling software the traditional way and move it to the app store

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

What incentive is there for those companies to stop selling software the traditional way and move it to the app store

There's not. Isn't that a good thing?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Brien 

Piracy?

Which reminds me, any attempt by Apple to lock-down the Mac would be instantly thwarted.

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

Of course if apple locks down 10.7 so only you can get apps through the app store, then that may force developers, but is a very poor business decision in of itself.

Steve specifically said that apps would be available outside the app store.

[osiris]

I love, use, and recommend Macupdate.com, so there.

[voodoo]

A random quote from the web, that I think fits in nicely:

Of all the things I wanted on OS X, the AppStore was not even on my list...

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by AKcrab 

Steve specifically said that apps would be available outside the app store.

I missed that, I guess it all depends on which site you use to view the presentation.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by osiris 

I love, use, and recommend Macupdate.com, so there.

I look forward to MacUpdate creating an app-finding app and releasing it on the app store.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

What incentive is there for adobe, Microsoft, or any other vendor who now gets 100% of the sales

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

fair enough, but people do use google, microsoft, adobe and of course amazon to get software. My point is that there are so many other ways to buy/download software and the authors of said software get all of the proceeds. Now apple wants a piece of the action and I don't see the folks from Panic software willing to fork over 30% of their proceeds when they sell a copy of transmit.

What?

Name one.

Just a single one.

(Hint: There isn't any. You either pay the dealer a cut, or the distribution system, or the credit card company, or the sister-in-law who manages your sales, or the sales department, or the commissioned web-store management, or the shareware payment company (like Kagi), or you pay through the nose in time invested that really should be going to programming (or sleep), or any and all of the above, in various combinations.

Have you really not understood that Apple's iApp Store offer is actually a pretty good deal?)

[ChrisF]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

What incentive is there for adobe, Microsoft, or any other vendor who now gets 100% of the sales

No they don't. They're paying for distribution of physical media unless the software is purchased electronically, which then means they're paying for bandwidth. Software sold at retail is sold to the reseller at a discount, remember.

[Spheric Harlot]

…by the distributor, who gets it wholesale at further discount from the software maker.

Also, thanks for pointing out bandwidth. I forgot that on my list above.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

What?
Have you really not understood that Apple's iApp Store offer is actually a pretty good deal?)

Its a great deal, mostly because you have no other alternative. I understand what apple provides in terms of services with the app store, I'm not debating that. Its made a lot of people rich, but for the iphone/ipod touch/ipad you can only install apps from the apple app store (unless you jail break).

[voodoo]

Another thing, it was really a cringe-worthy moment when Steve explained that "Back to the Mac" wasn't Apple acknowledging that the Mac was of such monumental importance to the company and the future (what with the immense increase of Macs sold etc.) that Apple was actually going to use way more resources on the Mac and really focus on making the Mac OS great -- but rather that "Back to the Mac" meant that the Mac OS was going to "benefit" (using the term loosely) from the tablescraps of iOS development.

Which are neither consistent nor particularly applicaple to the Mac OS. A big disappointment. I actually had some hopes there for a moment, seeing how much they were hyping the Mac sucess.. (notably sans any iOS bolt-ons)

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

What incentive is there for adobe, Microsoft, or any other vendor who now gets 100% of the sales

That's not how it works. If you're selling independently with any success then you're extremely lucky if you get to keep 70% of the sales price. The App store is an excellent deal.

[ort888]

So the big question is what is the difference between an app from the app store and an app you install the traditional way.

Will traditional apps show up in the iPad like app switcher or will I have to have multiple app launchers?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

Its a great deal, mostly because you have no other alternative. I understand what apple provides in terms of services with the app store, I'm not debating that. Its made a lot of people rich, but for the iphone/ipod touch/ipad you can only install apps from the apple app store (unless you jail break).

Wait.

The actual content of my post was the paragraph BETWEEN the two lines of text you quoted and responded to.

It's not a great deal because you have no other options.

It's a great deal because in ANY other scenario

the dealer cut, or
the distribution system, or
the credit card company, or
the sister-in-law who manages your sales, or
the sales department, or
the commissioned web-store management, or
the shareware payment company (like Kagi), or
your time invested that really should be going to programming (or sleep), or
bandwidth, or

any combination of the above

tend to eat up WAY more than a 30% cut.

In fact, in most cases, distributor and sales-point cuts will be close to 50%, already.

Add to that international distribution, and you may never even SEE your cut if you happen to make some unwise choice somewhere, or you might get screwed because, though you're selling via your own homepage at supposed 100% cut, you've forgotten to allow for the various taxation schemes in various countries, so you've inadvertently run afoul of the tax services in a dozen countries where people have bought your app via the web, and now you owe those states money. (This is something that ****ed up a lot of independent software makers in the past few years, btw - not something I made up.)

You wanna deal with all that yourself - figure out an hourly wage for yourself to become an expert. Or hire someone with an hourly wage to deal with it for you. The more you sell, the less of a cut of your profits that will be, but at first, it's gonna be a couple thousand percent, and probably lead you to the realization that it might not be worth it. Rogue Amoeba actually stopped selling to the EU for a while because of this.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by ort888 

So the big question is what is the difference between an app from the app store and an app you install the traditional way.

Will traditional apps show up in the iPad like app switcher or will I have to have multiple app launchers?

That's the only thing I'm a little scared of.

[andi*pandi]

I miss versiontracker.

[Person Man]

Steve said the Mac App store WILL BE OPTIONAL!

I used big text because people are all panicking for nothing. Steve Jobs said in his presentation that the Mac App Store will be optional. As in, people will not be forced to use it as the only way to get apps. As in, developers will not be forced to use it as the only way to sell apps.

The Mac App Store will be optional in Mac OS 10.7 Lion!

Optional. OPTIONAL!

[The Final Dakar]

You're an hour late.

[andi*pandi]

I wonder, will it be optional?

[Spheric Harlot]

Yes, but it will be the defacto discovery and distribution system for 90% of sales within a year or two.

This doesn't bother me.

I think it's a good thing for the average user.

[Spheric Harlot]

Unless it's not optional.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I think it's a good thing for the average user.

Probably. It'll probably be better for developers. I can't recall how many apps I've d/led in the past year or two (not many), but I think I can recall paying only for one. The app store can only increase that.

[turtle777]

I think it will be optionally mandatory.

-t

[Doc HM]

MacBook Air is $999 bt in the UK its £849 (or £755.25 without VAT) which is $1196.13. Not a complete rip off but not great either. It's still too expensive.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

I wonder, will it be optional?

Sorry. I did that because nobody else has mentioned it on any of the forums I've seen and everybody keeps repeating stuff like "That's it. The Mac is dead. It will be forced on us... etc"

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I think it will be optionally mandatory.

-t

As long as I'm not forced to volunteer for the mandatory option, I'm fiercely relaxed about the prospect.