[JoshuaZ]

must download....

[zwiebel_]

come on guys, we west coasties have not seen the show yet. please, no more spoilers (hits reload button again)

[JoshuaZ]

Some of us live in another country...

You have to feed the monkey.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Lingering sense of duty mixed with Anders' message that if Tigh didn't kill her, someone else would do it for him, and probably make sure that she felt a lot more pain in the process.

I thought of that, but that seems lame unless she was just being taken off the program and they needed an excuse.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

I thought of that, but that seems lame unless she was just being taken off the program and they needed an excuse.

Not sure, but damn, did he look like a severely broken man once he was back on Galactica.

[greenamp]

Amazing episode. Galactica dropping down from the sky to launch vipers, then jumping just before hitting the ground was brilliant.

[Dark Helmet]

That is my favorite episode to date.

SPOILER. Ellen was a total surprise to me and that was the first time a TV show made me want to cry.

The Battlestar falling out of the sky and right when it is above their heads it jumps blew my geeky mind!

Everything about that episode was great.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by greenamp 

Amazing episode. Galactica dropping down from the sky to launch vipers, then jumping just before hitting the ground was brilliant.

Heh. I liked the Viper pilot's line as he hit the launch tube:

"Well, this is going to be different..."

[JoshuaZ]

Wow. Just wow. So darn good. Words can not tell how good that was.

[Chuckit]

Best. Episode. Ever.

Tigh killing Lady Macbeth was the best emotional scene the show has ever done. Galactica falling through the atmosphere while the Raptors launched and then jumping away at the last minute was completely freaking awesome — and somehow seemed realistic, too. Even the space battle with Galactica and Pegasus vs. all the basestars was great, and I usually don't like the space fights on this show very much.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

So why did Tigh have to kill his wife if they were being rescued? Thoughts?

I'd have been disappoint if he didn't. I'd have killed her with no remorse. Hopefully the next to go will be D'Anna. Why can't they cap her in the head like they do Six?

On a good note that battle scene in space was VERY well done. Reminds me of the good DS9 Dominion vs. everybody battles. Every good sci-fi show in space should have at least a few, per season.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

So why did Tigh have to kill his wife if they were being rescued? Thoughts?

Ellen was directly responsible for the deaths of three good people. That is murder.
She is guilty of collaboration with the enemy in time of war. That is treason.
Her actions endangered the rescue op, at a critical meeting. Thus, it endangered the lives of 40,000 people -- 39K on New Caprica, 1K on Galactica. That is 93% of the remaining Human race. And that is criminally insane.

If the wife of the senior military officer cannot be held responsible for such crimes, then no one can be. She should have gotten a firing squad. Most shows would have let her off with some crying and Sorrys.

On to the usual notes. This was a good episode.

We find out from the Pegasus collision that it is about double the size of a baseship. That explains how the Regeneration Ship Battle worked, Pegasus engaged both baseships and held them in a draw. Galactica finished off one, then the other.

Baltar won't drift further into evil, the character is both good and evil. He seems to drift the opposite direction of his surroundings, so I'm expecting him to get better while in Cylon hands. If he should come back to the fleet, he'll backslide.

It's established that D'anna didn't set off the scorched-earth nuke. Also, there would have been some confusion during the evac, and the Cylons evacuated their own in advance. I expect that some Humans were left on New Caprica, so if the Cylons don't bother to come back, a small colony will remain on the planet. It's not clear to me that D'anna got off either, she may have remained on New Caprica with Hera.

The Galactica-in-atmosphere was done really accurately. The ship jumped away. The plasma envelope surrounding it didn't go with it, instead it collapsed into the vacuum space left by the ship. The physics looked right.

Galactica and Pegasus each had about half-crews since the original attack. By combining the crews, Galactica now has a full crew. It will appear about twice as crowded as before. We got to see that at the end of the episode. I'd expect they will have to maintain that afterwards, paying more extras as needed.

Sharon Agathon should have known Starbuck's location after plugging into the network. I had expected her to be rescuing Starbuck in this episode. Instead, she vanished off the dradis. Almost as if she were busy doing something the writers won't show us for awhile. She left after delivering the launch keys, and came back into view in the hanger deck at the end. It's possible that she was just off flying cover in one of the Raptors ...

Tom Zarek is still Vice President, since he didn't sell out. We will be seeing a lot more of him.

There is an outside party interfering in Human-Cylon affairs. Someone passed info to D'anna through the Tent Oracle. That party might also be responsible for Imaginary Six / Imaginary Baltar. An advanced alien race? The Cylons are occupied elsewhere, with most of their military resources diverted. Possibly they are at war with another species. It's even possible that both outside parties are the same, an alien race under attack that is trying to create diversions with the Cylon's historical enemies.

[scottiB]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

So why did Tigh have to kill his wife if they were being rescued? Thoughts?

Once Ellen was discovered as a collaborator, her fate was sealed. Either Saul does it now, or someone, somewhere, sometime in some fashion will do it (considering the previews for next week's episode).

Anybody think she knew hemlock (or whatever) was in the cup?

I think the scenes of the Galactica being pounded by three Basestars, the camera pullback to a distance, then the rockets and Pegasus pulling into view was a fantastic sequence--music, composition, everything.

I think that this should've been a 90 minute ep--a lot crammed in.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by zwiebel_ 

come on guys, we west coasties have not seen the show yet. please, no more spoilers (hits reload button again)

C'mon.

The thread title says "[SPOILERS]" (in big all caps), and if I could resist clicking on this thread until I got done watching the show, then I'm should you could've.




I can't remember the last time a TV show made me cry. This episode was - good. Really good.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by reader50 

The Galactica-in-atmosphere was done really accurately. The ship jumped away. The plasma envelope surrounding it didn't go with it, instead it collapsed into the vacuum space left by the ship. The physics looked right.

No.

It doesn't really matter, but:

There would have been a sonic boom so hefty that it probably would have knocked out most of the people on the ground. That didn't happen.

Also, the Vipers launched off Galactica should have been ripped away upwards by the wind, since they were launched off an extremely large, extremely heavy body moving very quickly through motionless atmosphere. Think of throwing an apple core out of the window while driving at 75MPH.

[Dark Helmet]

I don't get what happened at the end with Baltar and Lucy.. why didn't he shoot her and shut the bomb off and make a run with the baby?

[Eriamjh]

That Casey was simply someone else's child was brilliant, yet unobvious. I breathed a sigh of relief when that occured, although felt badly for Kara who seemed attached.

It's too bad the Pegasus is no more. It helped the fleet be so much less helpless against the cylons.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I don't get what happened at the end with Baltar and Lucy.. why didn't he shoot her and shut the bomb off and make a run with the baby?

All he was trying to do was stop the nuke. Six convinced him that the bomb wasn't going to be activated, so he left. Killing her would've made his life with the Cylons much more difficult.

[ThinkInsane]

Wow, what a great episode.

Adama is a ****ing madman! Dropping a Battlestar into the atmosphere like that was completely unexpected and looked absolutely brilliant. This may well be my favorite episode to date. And the long shot of Galatica getting pounded by the baseships and the missiles coming from off screen heralding the arrival of Pegasus is my new favorite scene o the series. I need to watch it again before I get ready for work.

I hope Tigh can now get himself a proper pirate-style eye patch. He's earned it. The thing Im not looking forward to is seeing all the emotional aftermath Tigh will go through dealing with what he was forced to do on New Caprica. I really have no desire to see him as a "good man forced to make hard choices" or some such nonsense. I much prefer the slightly maniacal Tigh that gave the"we are demons" speech. I think a cold-blooded good guy would have a lot to offer the show.

[RAILhead]

I think that's (hopefully) the direction they'll have to take him. Tigh has been awesome so far.

[gumby5647]

I really hope they take the time to exlore the chaos of having everybody back on one ship.

IE:

Who's Galactica's CO now? Helo or or does Felix get it back?
Who's Galactica's CAG? Kat? Starbuck? Can't image Apollo will want to be demoted
What about XO? Does Apollo...now shipless become XO? Does Tigh even want to be XO again?
And excuse me....shouldn't Zarek be President? If Baltar is missing...then chain of command goes to Zarek BEFORE Laura. WTF?

---------------------

What i'd reeeeaaallly like to see perhaps in the second half of season three is a concentrated sub-plot on trying to re-equip/re-build/re-armor and fix up Galactica to become perhaps....more battle ready....and showing the strain/irratation it causes with the Civilian fleet when priorities start shifting to the military side.

[Dark Helmet]

I was happy about the Casey part also but really what are the odds that out of all the ships the mother was in the one that ended up on BSG and unloaded right across from Starbuck at the same time.

[Biggysteve]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I was happy about the Casey part also but really what are the odds that out of all the ships the mother was in the one that ended up on BSG and unloaded right across from Starbuck at the same time.

Perhaps that was the way Leoban planned it all along. It would be perfectly inline with the way that character screws with peoples' heads.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Biggysteve 

Perhaps that was the way Leoban planned it all along. It would be perfectly inline with the way that character screws with peoples' heads.

Or the "real mother" is a CYLON!!!!

[Biggysteve]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Or the "real mother" is a CYLON!!!!

Well, they probably could use a "bad actress" Cylon model.

[andi*pandi]

I especially liked Kara's expression, like you could see her going CRAZIER in 2 seconds.

my only fault with the ellen thing, is would she have been so stupid? wouldn't she have known that Tigh would value the mission more than himself? or was it purely selfish? I would have liked to find out that Tigh already knew she was toaster-screwing, or even encouraged it for spying purposes.

Yes, I don't want to see Tigh get all guilty and morose and drunk again.

[RAILhead]

I guess my thing with Ellen is that Tigh is one of the main cheese fists, so it seems like -- if he wanted to -- he could throw his weight around and say that no one can touch his wife. I know Anders isn't part of the "crew," but still...

[zaghahzag]

ellen was a flawed human, she saved tigh's life one way or another. i thought that tigh might have used her in a suicide mission after she got caught for treason, or to give the cylons some false intel.

but as it was, she was a traitor and had to die. sucks for her.

that scene where tigh poisons here was really awesome though. this whole episode was seriously awesome. BTW for anyone who hasn't watched this show, go watch the very first episode, and then watch them in order. it's amazing.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Originally Posted by reader50 

The Galactica-in-atmosphere was done really accurately. The ship jumped away. The plasma envelope surrounding it didn't go with it, instead it collapsed into the vacuum space left by the ship. The physics looked right.

No.

It doesn't really matter, but:

There would have been a sonic boom so hefty that it probably would have knocked out most of the people on the ground. That didn't happen.

Also, the Vipers launched off Galactica should have been ripped away upwards by the wind, since they were launched off an extremely large, extremely heavy body moving very quickly through motionless atmosphere. Think of throwing an apple core out of the window while driving at 75MPH.

You might be right. It's a bit hard to research. I tried to get Galactica specs from the Scifi website, but the Ships Specs section seems to have vanished. I was looking for the length of the ship. Someone gives Galactica's near-starting altitude shortly after jumping in, as "99 thousand", but they don't say what the units are. It seems to me like I've heard them use length units in conversation before, but I can't recall where or what the units were.

If Galactica is a mile long (1.6 km), then some figures can be extrapolated. It fell for a maximum of 42 seconds, from an apparent starting height of 30-50 miles (48-80 km). That places the descent speed around a mile per second (1-2 km/s), and it jumped out 2-5 seconds before impact, so it was still quite a ways up. It would have been 15-25 miles (24-40 km) up when the Vipers were launched, that is 75,000 - 125,000 feet altitude, with the air fairly thin. The Vipers did show some push upwards after leaving the launch tubes, though it should have been worse.

Other notes.

HotDog is the pilot who says "this ought to be different". Before the launch officer triggers the catapult, HotDog gives "him" a thumbs-up. Trouble is, there doesn't appear to be an officer at the control console to receive the thumbs-up, or (more importantly) to trigger the catapult. Maybe the launch officer is on the same side of HotDog as we are, but that disagrees with Starbuck's launch in the miniseries.

With full Viper complement and crew, Galactica will need to refit the Starboard flight pod to operational status. This will upgrade BSG's battle stats somewhat. It seemed to be slightly overmatched against one baseship in the past, afterwards it will probably have the edge against a single baseship.

I agree on the topheavy-with-officers post. Galactica now has a lot of high-rank people:
Admiral Adama
Commander Adama, of Pegasus
- doesn't seem like anyone got promoted to Commander on Galactica -
Colonel Agathon of Galactica
Colonel Tigh (mustered out, possibly retired)
Colonel on Pegasus, if there is one
CAG, Galactica: Kat
CAG, Galactica (mustered out): Starbuck
CAG, Pegasus: unknown
Deck Chief, Galactica: the drafted civvie from Pegasus
Deck Chief, Galactica: Tyrol (possibly demoted, mustered out, possibly retired)
Deck Chief, Pegasus: unknown, possibly more than 1. Pegasus had 4 flight decks.

My guess will be separate Deck Chiefs, for each flight pod. Lee may get command of Galactica. The Colonels will stand different watches. Maybe the Pegasus Air Group will get the Starboard pod, and keep a separate CAG for political reasons. Doesn't seem likely from a military standpoint, but we haven't seen if relations settled down during the missing year or not.

Lee will have dumped all the supplies and personnel he could from Pegasus, before going in. It went in with a skeleton crew. Small enough to evacuate in 5 Raptors from their Port pod. 10 Raptors if you assume they evacuated from both pods. Probably less than 100 officers at risk.

Tom Zarek should be sworn in as President. But, he was the running mate of a traitor. He'll pass for political reasons, and remain Vice President. This could be sticky legally, they really should call another election before too long to make Laura legit. Unless they toss out the winning candidate from the last election, thereby swinging it to the runner-up.

What in the world is Gaita drawing on that sketch pad? A pirate's knife stuck in the head ... of a Bonsai tree?

[ngcreese]

Originally Posted by zaghahzag 

ellen was a flawed human, she saved tigh's life one way or another. i thought that tigh might have used her in a suicide mission after she got caught for treason, or to give the cylons some false intel.

but as it was, she was a traitor and had to die. sucks for her.

that scene where tigh poisons here was really awesome though. this whole episode was seriously awesome. BTW for anyone who hasn't watched this show, go watch the very first episode, and then watch them in order. it's amazing.

Ellen and Tigh had a really tough love / hate marriage. They loved each other, yet she wasn't faithful to her husband, (even before sleeping with the enemy, for a good reason...) and he already knew that much. Even though he'd been hurt by her for a long time, he could never quite get free of her grip. They made mention to it early in the series when she first popped up, as a survivor of the original invasion.

However, what she did in the end took it too far. If their past was different, he would have saved her, one way or the other. But him kiling her himself, that was a long time coming. It was one of the most emotionally disturbing scenes I've seen in a sci fi show, ever. I mean there was two seasons worth of relationship tension building up to this moment... jeez! Great, I mean, really great drama! (It made a tear welp up on my eye, at the end... )


As far as taking a (really) big Battlestar and jumping it into low earth orbit, and letting it freefall.... that has to qualify as the THE boldest, bravest, thing I've ever seen! The special effects, with the plasma enveloped battlestar seen from the ground, looking up... that was amazing!!! The near ground jump, incredible! Though the BSG is big, and probably still high in the air, it was still close enough that they could feel the wind as air rushed in to fill the vacuum, once the ship jumped out! I don't know of any other space based sci fi show or movie that has ever done a shot like that (let me know if you do...).

Bravo BSG!

This might qualify as the best episode of BSG ever (at least visually, possibly overall...).

[analogika]

Originally Posted by reader50 

You might be right. It's a bit hard to research. I tried to get Galactica specs from the Scifi website, but the Ships Specs section seems to have vanished. I was looking for the length of the ship. Someone gives Galactica's near-starting altitude shortly after jumping in, as "99 thousand", but they don't say what the units are. It seems to me like I've heard them use length units in conversation before, but I can't recall where or what the units were.

I take it the sonic boom thing went accepted without further comment and that refers to the Vipers being yanked up from the Galactica due to air drag?

[reader50]

The Vipers being yanked up by air drag, yes. As to the sonic boom knocking people out on the ground, no opinion stated. It was 2-5 miles up I think, but travelling at Mach 7 or thereabouts. Then it vanishes into a large vacuum space.

I can't picture what that would do to the sonic boom, amplify or eat it. You'd need a computer simulation to find out for real. They did show some heavy wind disturbance on the ground right afterwards.

[bstone]

reader50, you wrote "Col Dualla" who served on the Pegasus. She is still only a Lt. Lee calls her so in the very beginning on e04.

[analogika]

Well, a sonic boom is air slamming into the relative vacuum left by an object moving too fast to let the air flow around it.

We used to get sonic booms quite often in Germany from objects no larger than Phantom F4s or Tornados, and they would give the windows quite a rattle.

The Galactica jumping out of the atmosphere would leave a complete vacuum, and an object that size should leave a sonic boom of epic proportions.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by bstone 

reader50, you wrote "Col Dualla" who served on the Pegasus. She is still only a Lt. Lee calls her so in the very beginning on e04.

Whoops, missed that. She seemed to be performing as Lee's XO, which would have been a Huge jump in rank. But what the heck, the Admiral promotes his son, maybe it's normal practice to promote one's wife.

Fixed.

[Eug]

I thought it was a good episode, but my favourite episode is still 33:

Originally Posted by scottiB 

Anybody think she knew hemlock (or whatever) was in the cup?

It would have been nice if they have scripted it that way. I think that would have made even more of an impact if there was more of an insinuation that she suspected what was in the cup, and that Tigh knew that she knew. However, I do agree it was a good scene nonetheless.

Originally Posted by zwiebel_ 

come on guys, we west coasties have not seen the show yet. please, no more spoilers (hits reload button again)

Considering we Canadians see it one day later, I generally don't set foot in this thread on Friday nights.

EDIT:

I'm not sure if you guys outside Canada had a different trailer again, so I've hosted it for ya:

Canadian trailer for BSG 305: Collaborators



(4.1 MB QuickTime H.264 30 seconds)

[bstone]

thanks for the trailer. I was very glad to see it. I wonder if they will find earth next week?

[ThinkInsane]

Felix might want to mention to the Chief that he was the spy providing them with all that oh-so useful information...

[Lateralus]

For those interested, BSG was a topic of discussion yesterday on NPR.

NPR : The Universal Appeal of 'Battlestar Galactica'

[xi_hyperon]

Fantastic screenshots from the last episode:

alecm.com

And a nice animated .gif:

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon 

Fantastic screenshots from the last episode:

alecm.com

And a nice animated .gif:

Can you imagine what the people on the ground must have been thinking at that time? Obviously very few or none knew that was planned and probably thought for a few second that was the end.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

Can you imagine what the people on the ground must have been thinking at that time? Obviously very few or none knew that was planned and probably thought for a few second that was the end.

Yeah, thinking perhaps BSG just got shot down, and then whoomp!

[SirCastor]

I was sad to See Ellen die. In fact, my mind invented a scenario where Saul just drugged her, and stuck her in a crate that would be evacuated. Then she would wake up few hours later. I was kind of sad to see that not work out. I know there's no room for someone like that, but I liked the character and the dynamic created between her and Tigh.

The Kasey-not-Kara's-Kid thing was brilliant. I never saw it coming. I think I hate Leoben all the more.

I don't if anyone's mentioned it, but I really love the celtic theme they stuck with Adama(s)... It's great.

[SirCastor]

Originally Posted by reader50 

I agree on the topheavy-with-officers post. Galactica now has a lot of high-rank people:
Admiral Adama
Commander Adama, of Pegasus
- doesn't seem like anyone got promoted to Commander on Galactica -
Colonel Agathon of Galactica
Colonel Tigh (mustered out, possibly retired)
Colonel on Pegasus, if there is one
CAG, Galactica: Kat
CAG, Galactica (mustered out): Starbuck
CAG, Pegasus: unknown
Deck Chief, Galactica: the drafted civvie from Pegasus
Deck Chief, Galactica: Tyrol (possibly demoted, mustered out, possibly retired)
Deck Chief, Pegasus: unknown, possibly more than 1. Pegasus had 4 flight decks.

I don't know a whole lot about military protocol, but I'm under the impression that rank != position on a ship. It usually goes hand in hand, but not always. The people from Pegasus don't get a positing just because they show up. I'm sure something will be worked out.

As for those who previously had posts, It seems like a lot of them simply left and there was no filler. Tigh left, but the ship didn't have a CO. Agathon took Gaeta's place (Gaeta apparently became a presidential Aide: Ronlin's Billy) and became acting CO in time of war, Cat took Starbuck's place. Those officers AFIC essentially retired. Is there a place for them? Absolutely. Tigh can take his place as CO, Gaeta apparently has his own problems to deal with, Who knows if Starbuck wants to be CAG again...

[andreas_g4]

Originally Posted by SirCastor 

I was sad to See Ellen die....

I am pretty sure that she is a cylon.

[RAILhead]

Yup, me too...

[andreas_g4]

No matter if we're right or not, the undisclosed cylon plot is one of BSG biggest strenghts. The're not overusing it, just a good thrill. Very good.

[brapper]

Just wanted to add, Holy crap! What an episode!

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by andreas_g4 

I am pretty sure that she is a cylon.

I was thinking the same from day one because of imaginary 6's reaction to her.

That and how Ellen came out of nowhere 2 weeks after the attack on the colonies.

[ngcreese]

I don't remember 6's reaction to her. What happened back then?