[chaddiman]

Bye the way we will be seeing the Cylon Homeworld very soon.

How do you know?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by chaddiman 

How do you know?

At the end of season 2 the writers said in season 3 one character would spend most of the season on a Cylon basestar and even see they Cylon homeworld as they wanted to show things from the Cylon perspective.

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

At the end of season 2 the writers said in season 3 one character would spend most of the season on a Cylon basestar and even see they Cylon homeworld as they wanted to show things from the Cylon perspective.

That must be Baltar. It's kinda like the old show with him being on the basestar and all. I wonder why they would send him back to the homeworld?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

That must be Baltar. It's kinda like the old show with him being on the basestar and all. I wonder why they would send him back to the homeworld?

Well duh

I think that was pretty damn obvious before the season even started, I mean who else could it be?

[SirCastor]

I've been thinking about the whole 'each cylon model represents something about humanity' here's my list:

Simon: Logic
Doral: Doubt
D'Anna: Leadership
Six/Gina: Love
Leoben: Faith
Sharon: Hope
Bro. Cavel: I'm not sure. Somewhere in Authority I think or something. I dunno.

what do you guys think? (I'm trying to stave off my excitement for the next episode.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by SirCastor 

Bro. Cavel: I'm not sure. Somewhere in Authority I think or something. I dunno.

Perhaps the Brother Cavels represent the other, not pretty, side of faith.

[Visnaut]

Perhaps Leoben is the faith follower, and Cavel is the faith leader.

I'd hate to be the cylon model that represents an atheist. Not gonna fit into the group I'd imagine.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Visnaut 

Perhaps Leoben is the faith follower, and Cavel is the faith leader.

Ooh; I like this idea. The flock versus the shepherd, huh?

I'd hate to be the cylon model that represents an atheist. Not gonna fit into the group I'd imagine.

I thought Doral was supposed to be the atheist (or at least the non-religious one).

[Dark Helmet]

I like brother Cavels attitide. He seems like one of those people who are realistic about worshiping a god.

Cavel says praying will do you no good, if they are supposed to be carrying out Gods will then they should go at it full force and not half assed. He is sorta a reality check for the religious ones.

Leoban on the other hand seems to follow his faith in more of a blind way thinking everything that happens is done by God and the way it is written is how he expects it to happen even if it doesn't come naturally. Just look at how he treats Starbuck. He thinks Starbuck will love him and he doesn't care if it isn't sincere as long as it happens like his visions have shown him.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Visnaut 

Perhaps Leoben is the faith follower, and Cavel is the faith leader.

I'd hate to be the cylon model that represents an atheist. Not gonna fit into the group I'd imagine.

That's kinda what I was thinking ... you vocalized it better

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

He thinks Starbuck will love him and he doesn't care if it isn't sincere as long as it happens like his visions have shown him.

Leoben is also an interesting case of the perils of putting too much stock in visions like that. He did indeed see Starbuck saying she loved him, and this did indeed happen. What he failed to see was the stabbity-death that followed shortly thereafter.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

Leoben is also an interesting case of the perils of putting too much stock in visions like that. He did indeed see Starbuck saying she loved him, and this did indeed happen. What he failed to see was the stabbity-death that followed shortly thereafter.

I'm not sure he really cared. In the end he got what he want. Kara still lost and he still won.

[SirCastor]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I'm not sure he really cared. In the end he got what he want. Kara still lost and he still won.

That's what's so disturbing about it. I hate to bring Star Trek back into the fray again, but that situation reminds me vaugely of when Picard was held prisoner by the cardassian guy. Even though Picard didn't really ever give up, he was ready to...

[reader50]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I'm not sure he really cared. In the end he got what he want. Kara still lost and he still won.

I read it a bit differently. Leoben is trying to find love (ie - real feelings, tangible evidence of a soul) and attempted to get it by going though the visible motions. Failed, of course.

Kara did something unpleasant, followed by something pleasant, and won the life of one little girl. This was a bargain.

So why didn't Anders catch up pronto and put a bullet in Leoben? That would skip the forcing-Starbuck scenario and save the little girl anyway. Uh ... next question, please.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by SirCastor 

That's what's so disturbing about it. I hate to bring Star Trek back into the fray again, but that situation reminds me vaugely of when Picard was held prisoner by the cardassian guy. Even though Picard didn't really ever give up, he was ready to...

Well the joke was on the Cardassian as picard never said what he wanted to hear.

[SirCastor]

Nobody's hopped on to make any comments about "A Measure of Salvation"? Did I miss the memo where we all abandoned this thread?

[Oversoul]

Well, Helo is a frakkin' traitor. Every human death from this point on should be on Helo's conscience.

I'm against genocide like anyone else, but this is a different kind of enemy and a different kind of war. (Notwithstanding BSG is fiction.) True, the Cylons did strike first and for all intent and purposes committed genocide against the human race. And sure, it's debateable whether Cylons are actually "alive" in the sense we understand it. More importantly though, the Cylons aren't your typical enemy. There's no ship to ship, man to man kind of battle that will wear the Cylons thin and force them to accept peace. Kill one Cylon and it resurrects to fight again, and they'll keep resurrecting and continue chasing down the humans to the ends of the universe. There's no stopping the Cylons, with their apparently infinite resources and unlimited lives . . . except that disease.

[SirCastor]

I can appreciate the sentiment, but what Helo did was the right thing. In the real world we're dealing right now with an enemy that has essentially no conscience. Murdering random people is of zero concern to them. Some logics state that we should be going quid pro quo here. A small tactical nuke could easily send the right message: Don't screw with us.

We don't do that though, because we have a moral responsibility to protect innocent people, regardless of who they are or where they live, or what they believe. We have to stand up and say "These are people too. They experience life." even though our enemy says "You will die" (and that often times is absolute, no alternative.)

So yes, the Cylons are responsible for Billions of deaths. That doesn't give humanity license to return in kind. Not if they expect to remain truely human.

Back to BSG, off the soapbox:

- It was an "all right" episode. I'm not crazy about it though.
- What the heck is Baltar doing and where is he going with this?
- Is that the end of this whole virus thing?
-Where the heck is Hera? We've had nothing really about her since we left New Caprica

[Sourbook]

So Baltar is strapped to the Cylon the torture table, seemingly enduring tremendous pain, and what does he do? He has an orgasm. That'll keep the Cylons from torturing him again.

[Eriamjh]

Helo is now a traitor. Saying he did the "right" thing only covers the moral ground. It does not cover his duty.

Here's the deal. They concluded that the bacteria came from a contaminated launch (somebody sneezed on the beacon). That means that the Galactica now has a weapon they could use at anytime when encountering cylons. Why would a missile be appropriate and a bacteria not? A weapon is a weapon, biological or not.

Galactica can choose to use this bacteria now at anytime (assuming they have cultures of it). They could coat a missile with it and launch it at a basestar when attacked. Unfortunately, I doubt this bacteria will be mentioned in any future episodes.

Baltar is now known to the fleet as leading the Cylons to the Lion's Head nebula. He can never return to the fleet. Unless he somehow lies and tells the fleet that he KNEW about the bacteria (which is what the cylons thought), incorrectly).

Good episode, though. I still love the show.

[SpaceMonkey]

I loved the Baltar orgasm/finding God part. It totally fits with his character development.

[scottiB]

While I liked the ep a lot, I think it ran out of gas at the end. Going in, I thought that the the beacon may have contaminated with the virus on purpose to deter the Cylons from following (all has happened before and happened again).

Anyway, I really enjoyed the Baltar scenes and am digging the Cylon/Basestar story line.

B+.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

RDM has said he has always had a 5 year plan for the show.

Originally Posted by reader50 

I don't recall reading that anywhere, could you be thinking of JMS on B5? The only reference that I can recall is after Season 2, the writers were going to talk about more general story arcs. About where the series was going.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

No I am 100% positive he said it in an interview.

Found a reference. This is from an RDM interview with Harlan Ellison.

Originally Posted by Ronald D Moore

...
So right now my gut says that we've got a couple of more years [from middle of Season 3] to do it. I could see two more seasons. Next year you can ask me the same question and maybe I'll say two more seasons again. So yeah, I don't know. [how long BSG will take to finish]

So it looks like five years is a vague target for series length, but it's not solid, like B5 was. I'm going to guess at six years, since BSG episodes almost always run long on the first cut. I'm going to guess that the overall story will run long too.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Sourbook 

So Baltar is strapped to the Cylon the torture table, seemingly enduring tremendous pain, and what does he do? He has an orgasm. That'll keep the Cylons from torturing him again.

An orgasm can be a response to pain. In fact, this is the norm in some species (such as cats, which have barbs in places that no animal should ever have barbs). Hanging victims are also said to orgasm before they die.

[JoshuaZ]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

An orgasm can be a response to pain. In fact, this is the norm in some species (such as cats, which have barbs in places that no animal should ever have barbs). Hanging victims are also said to orgasm before they die.

I second the cats with barbs notion. They just won't shut up during mating season...

[reader50]

Two people have died since Torn began. Or two more people died than were born. Population total went from 41422 -> 41420. I don't recall anyone dying, unless Tigh decided to check out.

I think Galactica's starboard hanger bay has finally been refitted into service. Apollo talks on the wireless as the Raptors leave the baseship "... approaching Starboard Hanger ..." [baseship explodes, interrupts conversation].

Apollo is back to being a Major, and appears to be CAG again. Helo is still Galactica XO, though his rank was Lieutenant before Exodus (rank pins matched Lt. Dualla). Helo is now a Captain according to the battlestar wiki people, who can read rank pins. This sets up the odd (to me) position that Captain Agathon as XO can give orders to Major Adama, who has the higher rank. Shouldn't the ship's executive officer outrank the CAG? It certainly looked to me like Helo was giving orders to Apollo during the baseship boarding operation.

Where were the baseship's airlock doors? Presumably in that access passageway the Raptors fly through. They must have still worked in the bay used by the boarding party, because the boarding party didn't need suits. However, the bay doors didn't work in whatever landing bay Baltar used, because the camera angle showed the interior bay wall visible from out in space.

When the baseship explodes, look at the dradis screen in CIC. It shows Galactica, the four Raptors, and (momentarily) the baseship. The four Vipers escorting the Raptors are all stealth models, they do not appear on the dradis screen. Unless the dradis was adjusted to exclude smaller vessels, it doesn't show the dead Raiders either.

Athena fired on the Raiders. Or Racetrack did so under her command. Sharon has gotten more willing to shoot other Cylons.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Where were the baseship's airlock doors? Presumably in that access passageway the Raptors fly through. They must have still worked in the bay used by the boarding party, because the boarding party didn't need suits. However, the bay doors didn't work in whatever landing bay Baltar used, because the camera angle showed the interior bay wall visible from out in space.

Ya that stood out as a huge mistake to me also. The ship was dead, there was no way airlocks were working when nothing else was. Well, the artificial gravity and green lights seemed in tip top shape though.

[SirCastor]

I just realized this... I had read the preview note on iTunes before I bought the ep. (I don't have cable) this is what it says?!?!"

A team from Galactica boards the infected baseship and finds hundreds of dead and dying Cylons. It's an intelligence windfall. Adama (Edward James Olmos) orders the team to tap into the dying Hybrid and to return with the surviving Cylons. Adama sends Starbuck (Katee Sackhoff) in to interrogate them. The deal she offers the Cylons is simple: cooperate and you get the vaccine and live; resist and you die - forever. Simon (Rick Worthy) reveals that Baltar (James Callis) is helping the Cylons find earth and Lee (Jamie Bamber) gets an idea: if the virus is spread by resurrection, it may be possible to set a trap and use it to destroy the Cylon race. Helo (Tahmoh Penikett) is outraged - this is genocide, the extinction of his wife's race - but Adama and Laura (Mary McDonnell) take the idea seriously. Meanwhile, the Cylons hold Baltar responsible for the virus and are torturing him for more information. Number Six (Tricia Helfer) talks him through the pain, filling his mind first with pleasure and then with a warning. As Galactica's trap is sprung and the Cylons move in, Baltar must once again choose between his own people and his captors while Helo must decide how far his loyalties will go.

What the heck episode did they watch? It's obviously about 50% right, but there's some weird stuff in there.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by SirCastor 

I just realized this... I had read the preview note on iTunes before I bought the ep. (I don't have cable) this is what it says?!?!"



What the heck episode did they watch? It's obviously about 50% right, but there's some weird stuff in there.

Heh. I remember watching some of the previews for Babylon 5 episodes and thinking the same thing. They take great license to make things seem like they will be more dramatic, I guess.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

Why would a missile be appropriate and a bacteria not? A weapon is a weapon, biological or not.

Because it is much more difficult to control what a biological weapon targets. Biologicals can spread beyond combatants and target innocents. If it weren't for Athena, it could easily be said that all Cylons were combatants. But, now there is evidence that not all Cylons support the war.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Because it is much more difficult to control what a biological weapon targets. Biologicals can spread beyond combatants and target innocents. If it weren't for Athena, it could easily be said that all Cylons were combatants. But, now there is evidence that not all Cylons support the war.

This is indeed the moral dilemma that anyone considering bioweapons faces in the real world. An ethical decision is very difficult.

[Dark Helmet]

Since when do resurrection ships jump that close to battles? Normally they are waaaaaay off in another solar system as nobody every saw one before unless they were looking for it.

They made it seem like it has to be right by the battle to download dead cylons.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by SirCastor 

I just realized this... I had read the preview note on iTunes before I bought the ep. (I don't have cable) this is what it says?!?!"

... Adama sends Starbuck (Katee Sackhoff) in to interrogate them. The deal she offers the Cylons is simple: cooperate and you get the vaccine and live; resist and you die - forever.
...

What the heck episode did they watch? It's obviously about 50% right, but there's some weird stuff in there.

According to the podcast, the part I quoted was filmed but later cut. Starbuck was sent in after they decided to interrogate in exchange for a "cure". She went after the Leoben unit mostly, pleased that the shoe was on the other foot again. The Leoben remained in character, trying to get into her head again.

Eventually, the Simon cracked and offered to answer questions. This took place right before we got to see the Simon dragged in front of the group. RDM indicated that the scene didn't seem quite necessary, and the episode ran long, so snip. We'll get to see it in the deleted scenes.

Seperate note. According to one of the writers, who responded to questions posed by the battlestar wiki people. Anything actually filmed is considered to have happened by the writers - unless they later come up with a specific reason to contradict it. So most of the time, deleted scenes can be considered to be valid.

[goMac]

I still don't buy the "someone sneezed on the beacon and as a result it contaminated Cylon's and only Cylons" thing. Either it was "God's" influence or there something more devious.

Guess with the beacon destroyed we'll never know.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Well, Helo is a frakkin' traitor. Every human death from this point on should be on Helo's conscience.

I'm against genocide like anyone else, but this is a different kind of enemy and a different kind of war. (Notwithstanding BSG is fiction.) True, the Cylons did strike first and for all intent and purposes committed genocide against the human race. And sure, it's debateable whether Cylons are actually "alive" in the sense we understand it. More importantly though, the Cylons aren't your typical enemy. There's no ship to ship, man to man kind of battle that will wear the Cylons thin and force them to accept peace. Kill one Cylon and it resurrects to fight again, and they'll keep resurrecting and continue chasing down the humans to the ends of the universe. There's no stopping the Cylons, with their apparently infinite resources and unlimited lives . . . except that disease.

Yes but see that is the dynamic of the story. Helo and Athena are now joined in their decisions, both betraying their own kind for the good of both races. It's a really nice parallel (writing-wise).

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I still don't buy the "someone sneezed on the beacon and as a result it contaminated Cylon's and only Cylons" thing. Either it was "God's" influence or there something more devious.

Was it God's influence when smallpox devastated the American Indians?

[Eug]

Well, that episode was pretty boring.

[jokell82]

Anyone know of some good BSG icons? I've found the two sets from IconFactory, but I was hoping there'd be some more out there. InterfaceLift has zero.

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Guess with the beacon destroyed we'll never know.

Wasn't the beacon brought onto the galactica?

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

Wasn't the beacon brought onto the galactica?

Nope. During the salvage, someone asked Adama if they should bring it aboard, and he said no, that it was too risky.

I thought it was an interesting episode. Not boring to me anyway. I'm really curious where they're going to go with Baltar now since he basically has no way to redeem himself to humanity.

The preview for next week looks good too. Looks like that supposed human POW the cylons had decided to pull a starbuck and hijack a raider.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Visnaut 

Nope. During the salvage, someone asked Adama if they should bring it aboard, and he said no, that it was too risky.

Though, I found it curious that they would completely abandon it. There are many ways they could have recovered it without bringing it aboard Galactica.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Visnaut 

I'm really curious where they're going to go with Baltar now since he basically has no way to redeem himself to humanity.

As a fan of the old series the thought of Baltar redeeming himself to humanity is absurd. He is heading towards becoming the leader of the cylons if the character is at all similar.

[Dark Helmet]

So is there any question that Athena blew up the basestar?

[ThinkInsane]

I didn't think Athena blew up the infected basestar. I figured the hybrid just succumbed from the disease, and since it's what controls the ship you'd have to think that a lot off critical systems would do bad things if there was nothing to control them. Know what I mean?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

I didn't think Athena blew up the infected basestar. I figured the hybrid just succumbed from the disease, and since it's what controls the ship you'd have to think that a lot off critical systems would do bad things if there was nothing to control them. Know what I mean?

That's what I figured too. It seemed like Athena couldn't interface with the ship enough to blow it up.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

I didn't think Athena blew up the infected basestar. I figured the hybrid just succumbed from the disease, and since it's what controls the ship you'd have to think that a lot off critical systems would do bad things if there was nothing to control them. Know what I mean?

I dunno the timing was too good and she had shifty eyes when it blew.

[SirCastor]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I dunno the timing was too good and she had shifty eyes when it blew.

There was some foreshadowing going on there with the shots as I recall. Panning back to Athena and her expression as they were reporting it.

[Ganesha]

Wouldn't the Cylons have deactivated all of Athena's access codes by now? You think after she stole all the launch keys on NC they would of tightened up their network security.

Anyone notice in the preview for next week, when the Raiders are attacking they have to announce "This is not a drill"... You think, by now they would know it, something must be up...

[MRTrauffer]

Originally Posted by Ganesha 

Wouldn't the Cylons have deactivated all of Athena's access codes by now? You think after she stole all the launch keys on NC they would of tightened up their network security.

Anyone notice in the preview for next week, when the Raiders are attacking they have to announce "This is not a drill"... You think, by now they would know it, something must be up...

I don't think they can. Mainly using the same reasoning that was used to send her to New Caprica in the first place. Something along the lines that they're programmed not to be able to tell each other apart as to prevent another "self-awareness uprising". While certain "living' models may be able to tell that she's Athena, the hybrid can't.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I dunno the timing was too good and she had shifty eyes when it blew.

Has anyone asked yet why Cylons can't just back themselves up before battle and then go in fearless?