[icruise]

Watching this video in French made me wonder: does the name Wii sound like "yes" to French speakers? (Better than what it sounds like in English...)

[Dark Helmet]

I'm gonna get a Wii and i'll give it 2 weeks and if it doesn't work 100% sensor bar wise it is going back.

[zerostar]

From the footage i've seen and the locations they have demoed this thing, I am pretty sure the sunlight thing is worked out and was never that great of a problem.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by zerostar

From the footage i've seen and the locations they have demoed this thing, I am pretty sure the sunlight thing is worked out and was never that great of a problem.

I'm not worried about sunlight I am just worried about the lightbar accuracy in general. Almost every game that uses it I have head it frequently loses the connection and people HOPE it will be fixed through software. Metroid and red steel both seem to have this problem.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I'm not worried about sunlight I am just worried about the lightbar accuracy in general. Almost every game that uses it I have head it frequently loses the connection and people HOPE it will be fixed through software. Metroid and red steel both seem to have this problem.

Gotcha, yeah that would suck in them middle of a long game, but hopefully they will fix it or have it fixed before its in out hands!

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by zerostar

Gotcha, yeah that would suck in them middle of a long game, but hopefully they will fix it or have it fixed before its in out hands!

Well red steel ships in a month so you'd think it was already complete.

I don't see how software can fix IR losing sight though. My TV remotes don't work sometimes unless i get the right angle so if an IR loses sight because you aim to far to one side or the other no software can make the IR 100%.

Is there any other way Nintendo could have gone about the aiming thing without using 30 year old IR?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by JHromadka

Not according to Nintendo

"Nintendo told Kikizo today that this is a known issue with the Wii. A company representative explained that the Wii sensor bar is affected by head-on exposure to sunlight, which could cause "some interference". But he likened it to not being able to see a TV with the sun shining straight on it."

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/wii/mor...bia-207115.php

Halogen lights have also been a problem.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

"Nintendo told Kikizo today that this is a known issue with the Wii. A company representative explained that the Wii sensor bar is affected by head-on exposure to sunlight, which could cause "some interference". But he likened it to not being able to see a TV with the sun shining straight on it."

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/wii/mor...bia-207115.php

Halogen lights have also been a problem.

I can't think of when I'd have the sensor bar directly in the sunlight.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by goMac

I can't think of when I'd have the sensor bar directly in the sunlight.

During the day?

[icruise]

So you have sunlight shining directly on your TV?

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Icruise

So you have sunlight shining directly on your TV?

I was being purposely obtuse (i.e., it was a joke. when = daytime, cause it obviously ain't gonna be the nighttime).

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Is there any other way Nintendo could have gone about the aiming thing without using 30 year old IR?

Sure, and to be honest, I was surprised about the IR thing myself.

My solution would have retained an external sensor, but rather than having IR sensors it would have had three or four basic low-power radio beacons, arranged in a small pyramid. After calibrating, the Wiimote would pick up on these beacons and use them to triangulate its own position in space. This isn't exactly new technology either -GPS works on a similar principle- but sunlight wouldn't interfere with it.

[torsoboy]

This is pretty cool for the Wii... it will make making games much quicker for beginning game developers (and possibly for the experienced ones as well):

Gamasutra - Nintendo, AILive Team For Wii Remote AI Tool

video:

wii

[starman]

Preorders go on sale today, but I have to drag my ass all the way back home in order to do it. Not sure if I can make the trek at lunchtime and get back at a reasonable time.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Sure, and to be honest, I was surprised about the IR thing myself.

My solution would have retained an external sensor, but rather than having IR sensors it would have had three or four basic low-power radio beacons, arranged in a small pyramid. After calibrating, the Wiimote would pick up on these beacons and use them to triangulate its own position in space. This isn't exactly new technology either -GPS works on a similar principle- but sunlight wouldn't interfere with it.

But this way Nintendo makes money from day one which is more important to the fanboys.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by starman

Preorders go on sale today, but I have to drag my ass all the way back home in order to do it. Not sure if I can make the trek at lunchtime and get back at a reasonable time.

I don't think it will be necessary. Nintendo is shipping so damn many of them they should be in good supply consistently. At worst you might have to wait 2 weeks for the second shipment.

[Adam Betts]

Yeah there should be plenty before Christmas. I'm one of the early people who got a preorder spot at Amazon but I'm not really worried if they're unable to send me one.

[starman]

All sold out.

[brokenjago]

I thought the Wiimote used bluetooth?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by brokenjago

I thought the Wiimote used bluetooth?

It uses Bluetooth for sending orientation data, and IR for sending positioning data.

[Dark Helmet]

"One thing to note, for the technically minded of you out there, is that the controller's aim does NOT work like a lightgun - your on-screen cursor isn't positioned in the exact location that you point the remote. It works more like a mouse - the sensor bar detects your movements and translates them to scaled-up movements on screen. And also like a mouse, there will be a sensitivity option that'll allow you to set how fast the on-screen cursor moves relative to your hand movements."

Red Right Hands-On - Kotaku

[Adam Betts]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

"One thing to note, for the technically minded of you out there, is that the controller's aim does NOT work like a lightgun - your on-screen cursor isn't positioned in the exact location that you point the remote. It works more like a mouse - the sensor bar detects your movements and translates them to scaled-up movements on screen. And also like a mouse, there will be a sensitivity option that'll allow you to set how fast the on-screen cursor moves relative to your hand movements."

I was hoping for Metroid Prime 3's expert control for Red Steel but it should be interesting to see how A button will work well in Red Steel's case. It stops camera from moving so you can get an accurate shot in current view.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

"One thing to note, for the technically minded of you out there, is that the controller's aim does NOT work like a lightgun - your on-screen cursor isn't positioned in the exact location that you point the remote. It works more like a mouse - the sensor bar detects your movements and translates them to scaled-up movements on screen. And also like a mouse, there will be a sensitivity option that'll allow you to set how fast the on-screen cursor moves relative to your hand movements."

Red Right Hands-On - Kotaku

I guess it depends on the game as some games use accurate aiming (shoot like a light gun) and some use what is described here, I also read that some games (like the tennis game included with the system) use general aiming like if you swing you arm back and swing it does a swing or if you just flick your wist it does a swing, but in some FPS games it is 100% accurate to your every movement.

Hope I explained that! I guess the tennis is made so even my grandma can play, but I sure would like to be able to smack the ball into my opponents face, I guess thats where the 3rd party games come in.

Correct me if i'm wrong here.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by zerostar

I guess it depends on the game as some games use accurate aiming (shoot like a light gun) and some use what is described here, I also read that some games (like the tennis game included with the system) use general aiming like if you swing you arm back and swing it does a swing or if you just flick your wist it does a swing, but in some FPS games it is 100% accurate to your every movement.

That is because you don't know why one is good and the other is shifty.

The Wii uses TWO types of motion control:

1) Accelerometers that is used in games like Golf and Excite truck is all in the remote and detects the tilt and movement in the controller itself and does not use the IR transmitter or receiver. That is why you hold the remote sideways and just tilt it left/right to turn the car. In fact your hand even covers the IR port when doing that. In this case the Wiimote should work fine and won't lose sight of the system because it is all being sent through blu-tooth.

2) The IR bar is used when you have to point at the screen and interact with it. The IR bar shoots out a signal constantly that the IR bar picks up and has to translate its best guess as when you are pointing 3 feet above the IR bar on your TV you mean top of the screen. I'm not quite sure how the IR bar can figure that out but there must be some initial setup when you first set up so it knows where the sensor bar is in relation to each corner of your TV screen. touchscreens do the same thing when you first use them but even when misaligned it doesn't really show are you are dealing with a few inches and not feet or meters.

THIS is the part that worries me about the Wii. If you are playing metroid/red steel and you point your remote too high or to far in any direction the IR signal will not be seen and the game just thinks it is gone so it will either stick in the corner to default to centre waiting for it to return. With metroid and red steel anyone who has played it has mentioned that it happened so often that it became annoying. Keep in mind this is at RECENT events and in ideal kiosk set ups not in the average living room with coffee tables, sunlight and halogen lamps.

Now there is NO WAY losing connection with a IR remote can be fixed in software. The only thing they can do is try to make it less noticeable when it does lose connection and hope you don't notice in time.

If this doesn't turn out to be an issue than my only problem with the Wii is the low CPU as it means no high def support, no intelligent AI, no 5.1 audio and less sexy graphics. All those things add to the immersion equally if not more than motion control. I've been drawn into games just because of the surround sound. The price doesn't concern me as does the missing ethernet port or DVD player. The missing hard drive does suck though. I might be able to get over those things though if the controller works exactly like it should and developers prove that using motion control makes the game BETTER not just different. Red steel doesn't do it for me as it doesn't matter how cool it is that you can swing a sword as if when you hit another sword or an object it doesn't stop your arm from moving. If my sword stops on screen how does my brain make sense of the fact that this virtual object I am controlling stops when my arm still moves?

[Dark Helmet]

Ok this review just scared the **** out of me to the point where I am not sure I want to get a Wii until a lot of reviews are out.

What is this crap that I see tons of people mentioning about "your not actually aiming at the screen but at the sensor bar". How does that make any sense?

So as I mentioned above it seems the internal motion censors work ok and the IR is ****. Guess it is good Sony went with only motion sensors on the PS3.

Some highlights:
"To begin, let us all say hello to the "Jaggies" of previous consoles. That’s right, while Nintendo claims the Wii is at least twice as powerful as the Gamecube, I was finding it hard to see the upgrade. Zelda didn't look like an upgrade at all. Until I become used to the lower level graphics, I found myself distracted from gameplay. Maybe it is because, at this point, I am used to 720p resolution from my Xbox 360 and 1200p from my PC. Either way, the look was jarring and a bit of a let down from what I had heard. In fact, showing the Wii on high definition displays only seemed to enhance the jagged lines on Zelda's Link character rather then increase viewing quality. "

"On the other hand, games that seemed better fit for a controller, felt forced and awkward. Ported games like Madden, Marvel Ultimate Alliance or even first party games like Zelda had the most awkward gameplay experiences. Since I have always played Zelda and Madden with a controller, the Wiimote almost seemed unnatural. "

"On the other hand, if you were already a 360 owner would you honestly buy the Wii version of Call of Duty 3 over the 360 counterpart? At this point, I would say better graphics and a control scheme I can understand would make much more sense. "

On Zelda:
This was where the Wiimote became tricky. You must point the controller at the sensor bar and not the TV and I found myself struggling to locate my center. Taller people gaming with a low sensor bar will make things much harder because you must turn your wrists down in order to get a center spot on the monitor. Compound this by a slow and unresponsive camera, and you'll spend more time losing arrows and taking hits than actually killing baddies. I tried to picture myself in an eight hour session marathon of Zelda (which is totally common for me and the franchise) using only the Wiimote. I cringed at the thought. Games like this need intense hours of hands on button mashing and sore thumbs - not risk of carpal tunnel. In fact, when I asked the Nintendo representative if I was able to switch to a classic controller over the Wiimote he said, “No, then again we recommend a game session of no longer then two to three hours.” Two to three hours!?! Do they even know how people play Zelda? "

And the issue I mentioned a month ago:
This side of the Wii is almost never discussed, but it may make or break your console experience. The fact is, the Wii requires space to be fun. For the average person this may be ok, but for a hardcore gamer it could be a turn off. In a demo setting everything seems perfect. Your standing in front of the TV with no obstruction in the way and your sensor bar is place at the perfect height. Take the Wii into the real world and you may start to see some issue.


The Older Gamers Paradise - 2old2play - 2old2play Hands on Review of the Wii

[ort888]

These are the concerns I have as well. I'm definitely not getting a Wii until I hear tons of real world feedback on the device.

I do like the idea, I just worry about the execution.

[zro]

Oddly enough, I'm thinking the Wii could be the last console I ever buy. Especially if they keep downloadable content available for, what, the next ten years at least.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by zro

Oddly enough, I'm thinking the Wii could be the last console I ever buy. Especially if they keep downloadable content available for, what, the next ten years at least.

They said the Wii is supposed to last longer than the other systems but there is no way. 3 years from now the missing HD will be a much bigger issue so they will probably come out with a new one.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

3 years from now the missing HD will be a much bigger issue so they will probably come out with a new one.

Nintendo seems too hard-headed to do that.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Nintendo seems too hard-headed to do that.

Well.. look at what they do with the gameboys. You're lucky they go 16 months before they release a new model fixing the problems the first model shouldn't have had to begin with.

Nintendo looooves selling people the same games and hardware with tiny improvements over and over as they fanboys are tricked into thinking it is cheaper that way.

[Dakar²]

You may have a point there.

Then again, that may only apply to their handhelds.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Nintendo looooves selling people the same games and hardware with tiny improvements over and over as they fanboys are tricked into thinking it is cheaper that way.

I can't think of a single instance in which Sony has ever done this.

: tries to keep a straight face :

[Kerrigan]

What does that mean, that you have to keep centering it on the IR device?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Dakar²

You may have a point there.

Then again, that may only apply to their handhelds.

The Super Nintendo was supposed to get the CD-ROM upgrade but Nintendo ****ed that up and that became the PS1.

Well the N64 got a VRAM upgrade so it could look less awful next to PS1 textures.

The N64 was also supposed to get the DD drive update to make up for the shortcomings of small storage and memory cards.

The Cube had a port on the bottom for online play but that went nowhere cuz Nintendo said "people don't want to play online" right when they released it. Smart.

The Cube had support for 480p and widescreen but the Component cables were impossible to find for the first year. Even then Nintendo hardly even bothered to make games widescreen let alone 480p. Heck even the next Zelda on the cube won't support widescreen so they can coax you into getting a wii instead.

So in other words look for a Wii upgrade in no time. First in the middle of next year will come a black and pink model so everyone will sell their white one to get those. A year and a half after that they will upgrade the hardware in some manner.

[Dakar²]

Yeah but half your examples said supposed as in Nintendo choked on doing anything. Which is what I'm saying.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac

I can't think of a single instance in which Sony has ever done this.

: tries to keep a straight face :

Examples please.

If you mention the slim PS1/PS2 keep in mind it was what 4-5 years later?

: tries to keep a straight face :

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Well the N64 got a VRAM upgrade so it could look less awful next to PS1 textures.

Um, the example I quoted above is the only one that actually supports your point (that Nintendo releases substandard hardware and upgrades it soon after to get people to pay again). In fact, it doesn't really even support it, since as I recall the expansion pack came with the games it was required for (at least most of them).

You would have been a lot better off aiming at Nintendo's portable track record, which is filled with this kind of thing.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Yeah but half your examples said supposed as in Nintendo choked on doing anything. Which is what I'm saying.

Problem was they developed the DD because people wanted bigger games with better graphics. They also wanted more writing storage to make and save new characters.

They did it in direct response to Sony's playstation as it held over 600 megs on a disk over the N64's 512 megabit.

The system was OFFICIALLY announced and shipped in Japan but Nintendo quickly figured out it sucked and pulled the plug to hold that stuff over for the cube.

The Super nintendo CD-ROM was also also publicly known and the first game "star Trek" was previewed.

I also forgot about the SNES FX chip upgrade that they built into the game carts themselves to make up for the SNES shortcomings.

The next Zelda game was a Cube title and they swore it would stay that way. Oops, now it is a Wii title and they purposely cripple the Cube version.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Icruise

Um, the example I quoted above is the only one that actually supports your point (that Nintendo releases substandard hardware and upgrades it soon after to get people to pay again).

Nope.

The DD was also released and it wasn't free.

If they charge you for it or not they are always aware of shortcomings before it comes out and trying to sell you an add on or fix at a later date.

Sega did the same thing.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Examples please.

If you mention the slim PS1/PS2 keep in mind it was what 4-5 years later?

: tries to keep a straight face :

Sony has been the only one in Consoles that has taken the same hardware, repackaged it, and re-released it. Neither Nintendo or Microsoft ever has. Sony repackaged the PS1, and they repackaged the PS2.

So forgive me if I find your "Nintendo repackages their hardware all the time" rant humorous. If Nintendo did rev the Wii for HD (which I think they will probably do), if anything they'd adopt that practice from Sony.

Handhelds are a different mater. The DS is rev'd just like the iPod is rev'd.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Problem was they developed the DD because people wanted bigger games with better graphics. They also wanted more writing storage to make and save new characters.

Strange. Most the games that were on DD moved to normal cartridges just fine.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

They did it in direct response to Sony's playstation as it held over 600 megs on a disk over the N64's 512 megabit.

Playstation's CD drive was slow. I'm glad Nintendo didn't move over to optical drives at that point, and I enjoyed carts very much on my N64. The only time I need my memory card was for the Playstation ports.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

The system was OFFICIALLY announced and shipped in Japan but Nintendo quickly figured out it sucked and pulled the plug to hold that stuff over for the cube.

So first you rant about how much Nintendo needed higher capacity media and all the demand for ir, then you rant about how much it sucked for Nintendo and that there was not demand for it. Right.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

The Super nintendo CD-ROM was also also publicly known and the first game "star Trek" was previewed.

So?

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I also forgot about the SNES FX chip upgrade that they built into the game carts themselves to make up for the SNES shortcomings.

I recall carts with extra chips on my Genesis.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

The next Zelda game was a Cube title and they swore it would stay that way. Oops, now it is a Wii title and they purposely cripple the Cube version.

How is the Cube version crippled?

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Nope.

The DD was also released and it wasn't free.

Yeah, but it was only released in Japan and only a relative few were actually made. You could make a similar argument about the PS2's hard disk attachment (most of the games that actually used it were only released in Japan).

Sega did the same thing.

Don't get me started on Sega...

So does the Xbox 360's lack of HD DVD drive (and its subsequent release as an external peripheral) also fit into this category?

[icruise]

Originally Posted by goMac

How is the Cube version crippled?

No widescreen support.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Icruise

No widescreen support.

Ahhhhh. I don't exactly see that as a huge problem myself.

[brokenjago]

Also no progressive scan, I believe.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

They said the Wii is supposed to last longer than the other systems but there is no way. 3 years from now the missing HD will be a much bigger issue so they will probably come out with a new one.

5 years minimum, and probably more like 7. Easily enough time for another generation.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Ahhhhh. I don't exactly see that as a huge problem myself.

Says the "average consumer" with the 14" TV that is getting a Wii anyway.

Point is there is NO REASON to cripple the cube version other than to make it less appealing so you buy a Wii.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Says the "average consumer" with the 14" TV that is getting a Wii anyway.

Point is there is NO REASON to cripple the cube version other than to make it less appealing so you buy a Wii.

The only reason I have the tiny TV is because I moved out from my roommate and I's place, and he had the tv. So I just dugg up this tiny set for nothing.

I've been waiting until the HD sets come down in price to buy a new tv. I was thinking about buying a new set for the Wii, but honestly, I'll probably wait until next year. The tv I have won't work wonderfully, but it will be fine.

[zro]

What idiot would sell something they just bought to get it in another color? I've never heard of that.

FYI, the FX chip wasn't available when the SNES was built and was developed for StarFox. A game that would otherwise have been impossible. Therefore, no shortcoming was there to have been filled by it.

What's wrong with trying to sell your latest hardware? Really, I'd like to know why you think that is wrong. Guess what... the Wii version has different controls, also! OH NOESS!!!

Or why it's wrong for Nintendo to make money. FYI, Nintendo doesn't have windows licensing income to lean on. They don't have Sony's "income" either. They can't lose money on this and stay in business. I don't understand how that can be lost on some people. So I believe it's just another bit of BS to fuel their fire of generic Nintendo hate.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by zro 

What's wrong with trying to sell your latest hardware? Really, I'd like to know why you think that is wrong. Guess what... the Wii version has different controls, also! OH NOESS!!!

Are you telling me that it took a year to discover how to make the gameboy Advance have backlighting? It took a year to take all that ugly bulk of the DS?