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Bockie · Sep 11, 2001, 04:43 PM

Now the WTC Building 7 (one of the smaller buildings next to the towers--the WTC is not just two towers, it's a series of interconnected buildings including the north and south towers) is on fire and is in danger of collapse. I hope there are no people left in the area!

The NYSE and NASDAQ have officially stated that they will be closed all of tomorrow.

Air Force One has now left Omaha for Washington, DC and the White House.

pscates · Sep 11, 2001, 04:46 PM

I REALLY, REALLY hope that in some sort of way, tis horrible act serves to unify and strengthen our nation and get us all a bit more on the same page, regarding our loyalty and patriotism.

It is my fervent hope that Bush comes on TV tonight aqnd says, in effect, "okay, you sumbitches...the gloves are off and somebody's getting their butt handed to 'em".

An then we - in a swift and brutal manner - rain down holy terror on somebody. I don't buy for a minute that we don't know (or can't learn in a very short amount of time) who was/is behind this.

No mercy and no restraint. I think this is a pivotal moment in our history. We are such a polarized, fragmented nation and culture, that hopefully something like an attack on our soil against innocent civilians could serve to unite us.

I say bomb the hell out of anyone we KNOW did it, THINK did it, anyone who's offered haven and support to those that did it, etc.

If we sit here and try to take the high road and be all civil and restrained, we may as well just cash it in and get used to this nonsense.

It's like a schoolyard bully, albeit on a much larger scale.

I think we hit back quickly, with no mercy and hit hard. And I'd like to see everyone get behind such an action.

Jeez...talk about waking a sleeping giant. I kinda hope this did it. I hope all these deaths weren't in vain ultimately. I hope that maybe we open our eyes and recognize and celebrate our uniting, common factors instead of simply always touting our differences and petty arguments and varied views. We're all Americans...and we were all attacked this morning. Don't lose sight of that fact, people.

HeatMiser · Sep 11, 2001, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
CNN is now reporting that the NSA has strong, direct evidence to connect Bin-Laden and his people to this attack. Of course, they aren't saying what it is, but they did mention passanger lists and airport security cameras.

I wondered how long it would be before they started going through passenger manifests. I guess you just eliminate everyone on the plane save for the couple people who no one called about, huh?

It's interesting to think that whichever group did this must've used totally unknown operatives...otherwise they would've been picked up--or at least watched closesly--the minute they came into the United States. As I understand it, the U.S. has a pretty detailed system for tracking most of the better-known terrorists in the world.

I'm going to be VERY interested to read the details of how this whole thing was carried out.

Captain Obvious · Sep 11, 2001, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by HeatMiser:


I wondered how long it would be before they started going through passenger manifests.

Well they know that Ted Olson the Solicitor General's wife was on the Pentagon plane and that she was able to call her husband while on the flight to tell her it was hijacked.

cpt kangarooski · Sep 11, 2001, 04:57 PM

With regards to the Empire State Building plane crash, that was a B-25 bomber that crashed into it in late July of 1945. There was dense fog that day, and the pilot, not having radar, just couldn't see anything; he then proceeded to dip _below_ the cloud layer, to get his bearings, and found himself in the middle of Manhattan. He managed to avoid several skyscrapers, but finally collided with the ESB at the 79th floor.

Fourteen people, mostly office workers, died, and there was $1 million of damage. However, the ESB's setbacks kept people on the street level from being hit by much of the debris.

The building's structural integrity was not lost, the plane wreckage was disassembled and disposed of through the building, and the large hole on the 79th floor's exterior wall was repaired.

The WTC is somewhat unusal in its design. It is influenced by the IBM building in Seattle, and relies on both the exterior walls and the central core to provide support and brace the building from environmental factors. (e.g. wind; see the John Hancock building in Boston, or the Citibank building in Manhattan for examples of why this is important) There are no columns within, and exterior forces are not transferred to the floors.

Unfortunately, yeah, the ESB was pretty heavily overengineered, because it was breaking a fair bit of new ground. Even just building regulations required a lot of that. Not that it could've withstood this either, though. I doubt that any building ever could. The mechanical shock, the additional load, the loss of support, the surely massive and intense fires*... it's impressive that they could stand for even nearly the hour prior to each's collapse.

*N.B. that these planes were probably specifically chosen because they were planned to go across the continent, and had full fuel tanks, compounding the tragedy. These were definately much smarter guys than the last bunch that tried to do this, in '93. I _really_ want us to get them; I think we will.

Patrick · Sep 11, 2001, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by pscates:
I REALLY, REALLY hope that in some sort of way, tis horrible act serves to unify and strengthen our nation and get us all a bit more on the same page, regarding our loyalty and patriotism.

Not just our nation, but much of the world is on the same page regarding this attack. I just flipped to a channel which is broadcasting the BBC World News, and they mentioned how world leaders from many countries have come together to condemn this incident.

Unfortunately, there is the other side: a few minutes ago, I saw footage of people in the middle east actually celebrating

- I've known that over there they hate the U.S. with a passion, but this is just plain freaky.

macvillage.net · Sep 11, 2001, 04:59 PM

Well, I talked to my father, and he is OK, and actually trying to get home now that Amtrak has resumed very limited service, though I don't know if he will be sucessful today, or if he will be camping in his office tonight.

Being only an hour from the city, I have been faced with tragedy all day. I do have friends who had parents in the building, and many more with 1 block of the city, who haven't heard from loved ones yet. We can only pray.

Condolences to all who have suffered a lossed loved one. We have all suffered a loss, this attack was against peace, not against those in the buildings, they were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Times have changed... and I really don't think it is for the better. I don't know if I will be in school tomorrow, and I don't know if I want to go either. It's an aweful feeling to know that many of your friends may have lost a relative. It's bad enough knowing that one person has lost a relative, but in this magnitute is hard to comprehend...

Going into the city for at least the next several years will be a large challenge. For those who have entered from Jersey know, the towers were the first thing you saw. The idea that they will not be there anymore is amazing. I am afraid to go. Just the idea that these huge buildings filled with inocent lives are gone is beyond me.

The idea that I have been there, I have been to washington, I have been to boston, I was in Newark not very long ago flying to Hawaii, it's hit home. It's always said that it will never hit home, now it has. My own father right now is walking through dust towards the train. Dust that is the result of lives lost, and an era ending. Dust that covers the city in a manner that reminds me of old WW2 films showing the ash falling from the sky outside of concentration camps. Just blanketing everything with death. Ash, lifeless ash is all that is left of thousands of lives, each life was an important part of other lives, fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, friends.

Miami · Sep 11, 2001, 05:07 PM

Posted by Scott_H:
Don't assume blah blah blah

It was Bin Ladin. We should have taken him out long ago. Hind sight is 20/20. Afghanistan wont hand him over.

see scott, that's why i don't like you. remember oklahoma, eh?
the real enemy here is religious fever, be it islamic or christian or any other flavour. people who think they're right in every possible sense. you better quit your church and try to think "�galit�, libert�, fraternit�". be nice to your neighbour and shut your mouth if you don't know what you're talkin' about.

in case someone's proven guilty, well, then let's proceed to the next step and think about how to prosecute them.

Macfreak7 · Sep 11, 2001, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by faruvius:


When will you "evolve" ?

I understand that you are angry, but just to point out a few errors in your judgement:

a) We don't know WHO "those" people are.
b) We don't know that "religion" blinded them
c) You can't assume that this is religiously motivated.
d) if it is religiously motivated, you don't know which religion. How can you call it stupid? Wait until you find out that it was a group of Christian Fundamentalists.
e) Attacks at the Pentagon and WTC. the WTC is a financial capital, and the Pentagon protects the wealthiest nation in the world. It is more likely that this is an attack at American Capitalism, not religion.

I think that you need to be more educated before placing blame. At least you expressed your anger through speech and not by flying a plane into a building.

okay wait, when were you born, yesterday?
read this for one http://us.news2.yimg.com/dailynews.y...aden_dc_1.html

obviously i know exactly what i was talking about, and since you'd rather be so naive about it all, let me tell you its islam that i was talking about. the people i meant, terrorists. and religion is their motivation all the way. they bring down the bigger powers(like the US), slump their economy and obviously they wont have any interference while raiding another country.
the problem actually is that people dont understand that religion is just a 'thing' to keep humans under control. but it has gone all wrong, and im way off topic now.(sorry, but that idiot just pissed me off even more)

fisherKing · Sep 11, 2001, 05:19 PM

the view from my window, until today...

R.I.P.

[gzL: img -> url]

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: gorgonzola ]

foobars · Sep 11, 2001, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by Miami:
in case someone's proven guilty, well, then let's proceed to the next step and think about how to prosecute them.

Bin Laden was proven guilty by American and outside courts for the attack on the African Embassys. He's been one of the FBIs 10 most wanted for probally 3 years now. He's also responsible for the USS Cole attack.

There's no question here. It was him. Bush knows it, we know it.

A few things are going to happen now:

1) Bin Laden will probally get killed. If we're lucky he'll get extradited (read: kidnapped) and we'll kill him here.
2) Israel will benefit greatly thanks to America's new found distrust of Palistinians. We're talking free liscense to use all the US-made ammo they want to do our dirty work.
3) The Taliban will "collapse" and Afghanistan will get a whole new shiny government complements of the Bush administration.

This will happen in the next 6 months.

FormerLurker · Sep 11, 2001, 05:32 PM

Another building just collapsed (possibly Building 5)

davesimondotcom · Sep 11, 2001, 05:35 PM

People! It is stupid to argue over speculation on who may be behind these horrible events. That is to be sorted out in the days and weeks to come.

What IS important, is that we all work towards preserving freedom in the U.S. and throughout the world. We cannot let cowards force us to put up walls of fear.

If we find that Bin Laden is behind this, I'm sure he won't live to celebrate for long.

As for those who were seen celebrating the tragic loss of possibly tens of thousands of innocent people, who were simply going on with their daily lives:

These people obviously have some warped sense of reality. They obviously don't have any clue of who these normal Americans were. They don't comprehend that these were people with families and friends. People simply trying to work their way towards a better life.

Just remember this: the word American ends with "I CAN." We CAN survive this. We WILL survive this. We will be stronger.

davesimondotcom · Sep 11, 2001, 05:42 PM

FisherKing:

Your posts truly hit me. I can't imagine what it would be like to be a New Yorker today.

I'm deeply pained by these events, and I live far, far away from them.

I'm sure we won't realize the true impact of this day for many months to come. Beyond the incomprehensible loss of life, we'll feel our freedom affected, our economy affected, our daily lives will change.

We need to make sure our lives get better somehow...

ThinkInsane · Sep 11, 2001, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by Miami:


see scott, that's why i don't like you. remember oklahoma, eh?
the real enemy here is religious fever, be it islamic or christian or any other flavour. people who think they're right in every possible sense. you better quit your church and try to think "�galit�, libert�, fraternit�". be nice to your neighbour and shut your mouth if you don't know what you're talkin' about.

in case someone's proven guilty, well, then let's proceed to the next step and think about how to prosecute them.

A couple of things about your little post. There will be no "Proven Guilty". This will not see the courts. This is a military matter and should be dealt with as such. Swiftly and without mercy. And I don't care if they randomly wipe out terrorist cells that weren't responsible. How about this for a national policy: If you belong to a terrorist group, you better duck MOTHER****ER. If you know there is a terrorist base in Libya, start lobbing the Tomahawks, and then send in an A-Team to clean up anyone that might have been hiding in the basement. If you have a cell in Afghanistan, let them wake up and see how they like being surrounded by a battalion of Rangers. Lets drop SEAL teams through their skylights as they sit down to dinner and Marines on their doorsteps. This has nothing to do with religion. I say **** them all. They picked a fight, and should be prepared to deal with the consequences of their actions.

The object of terrorism is to spread terror. I'm not scared, I'm pissed. And I am not the only one. All these assholes managed to do was galvanize a nation. This puts us all across party lines. Today we are not Democrats and Republicans, we are Americans, and we are pissed off. Our prayers go out for our dead, and our rage goes out to the murdering cowards that perpetrated this crime on our people.

IceEnclosure · Sep 11, 2001, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by Miami:


see scott, that's why i don't like you. remember oklahoma, eh?
the real enemy here is religious fever, be it islamic or christian or any other flavour. people who think they're right in every possible sense. you better quit your church and try to think "�galit�, libert�, fraternit�". be nice to your neighbour and shut your mouth if you don't know what you're talkin' about.

in case someone's proven guilty, well, then let's proceed to the next step and think about how to prosecute them.

so ben laden (sp*) didn't do it... fine... he should be gone from this earth anyhow... he threatens the U.S. with terrorist attacks... bam.. we just got one... threats can be taken many ways...even make someone look guilty..

and anyhow... I'd say he's behind this.. you're not defending him, are you? I'm in Miami.. let's meet if you are. (tho i'm fairly certain you're not stickin' up for ben laden)

pscates... right on man.. both your posts are right on...

macvillage... glad your father's okay.. that is definitely a good thing

and to fisherking and all other NYers.... again, my heart is heavy for everyone involved...

and although this is far down on the list of things to be upset about...
the removal of the WTC from the skyline is, indeed eerie and terrible..

people.... let's not argue in this thread

and if someone gets in touch with Gorgonzola, please let me know on instant messenger or in this board... I'd like to know my macnners are accounted for..

Ice

juanvaldes · Sep 11, 2001, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
The object of terrorism is to spread terror. I'm not scared, I'm pissed. And I am not the only one. All these assholes managed to do was galvanize a nation. This puts us all across party lines. Today we are not Democrats and Republicans, we are Americans, and we are pissed off. Our prayers go out for our dead, and our rage goes out to the murdering cowards that perpetrated this crime on our people.
[/IMG]

Amen to that brother!

As one of my favorite Metallica songs says:

DON'T TREAD ON ME!

steve666 · Sep 11, 2001, 05:59 PM

What do the terrorists hope to gain from this and other acts of terrorism? Do the Palestinians think the sight of them dancing in the streets because thousands of innocent Americans were killed is going to make us more sympathetic to their cause?

I say stop trying to reign in Israel and let them handle the situation any way they can. If it means shoving all Palestinians into Jordan and putting up a wall than so be it.

How do civilized people deal with fanatical freaks like Arab terrorists? Unfortunately the only way is to fight them on their own level. Israel should destroy the homes of suicide bombers that strike Israel, if they love being martyrs so much they can make martyrs of their entire families. The United States should wipe out any government directly or indirectly involved with supporting terrorists. The Taliban should be wiped out. Iraq's government buildings should be leveled.

Where was our Intelligence Agency? How can something of this magnitude be allowed to take place? I certainly hope that people in high places are going to be replaced with more competent people.

I certainly hope Bush is up to dealing with this, I know his father would be. Time to get daddy on the phone............................................. ...............................

mike one · Sep 11, 2001, 05:59 PM

first. my prayers and thoughts are with all those in need of them on this tragic day.

second. the head of the port authority police (which is the policing agency responsible for the WTC) said that each building has about 10,000 people working in them with about 5000 visitors per day.
some reports say a total of about 50,000 people for both builidings. the real number is somewhere in the middle. The death toll will be in the thousands. not hundreds.

third. it is time to reinstate U.S. state sponsered assassinations of potential threats to the U.S. We've sowed seeds of extreme hatred and instability throughout the world: iran, iraq, palestien, bin-laden, and we've left some of these leaders alive to contiplate, plan, plot, and act. To diffuse these potential threats, we will have to be more aggressive, more proactive. We'll have to kill these fu#king ba$tard$ before they can kill any more innocent people.

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: mike one ]
I didn't mean to say that is how many died, merely how many they think work there on any given day. forgive my ambiguity. i think the death toll will be in the thousands, not tens of thousands.

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: mike one ]

Bockie · Sep 11, 2001, 06:06 PM

The Number 7 building at the WTC has just collapsed.
The only way out of NY to NJ is to use the ferry across the river.

torifile · Sep 11, 2001, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by Macfreak7:


okay wait, when were you born, yesterday?
read this for one http://us.news2.yimg.com/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010911/ts/crash_tradecen ter_binladen_dc_1.html

obviously i know exactly what i was talking about, and since you'd rather be so naive about it all, let me tell you its islam that i was talking about. the people i meant, terrorists. and religion is their motivation all the way. they bring down the bigger powers(like the US), slump their economy and obviously they wont have any interference while raiding another country.
the problem actually is that people dont understand that religion is just a 'thing' to keep humans under control. but it has gone all wrong, and im way off topic now.(sorry, but that idiot just pissed me off even more)

Ok, I've stood by and waited for some fool like you to stick your foot in the pile of crap that has been fermenting here by some people. This is a ridiculous attitude. You cannot stereotype a whole religion for the actions of one group of people. You shouldn't, either. For one thing, we don't know who did it (though I suspect you're right about bin Laden). For another, we can only suppose the motivation in this was to get at the "American" people. For years now, people have automatically been jumping to the conclusion that any terrorist attack is the work of Islamic extremists. The fact that the Ok City bombing was committed by none other than a born and breed American did nothing to change that. The fact that the unibomber was also American did nothing to change that. The fact that in Britain the IRA is responsible for many, many bombings did nothing to change that. And I don't really expect them to as long as you keep your bigoted attitude about the religion your are blaming for this act.

Let's get one thing straight here: it is not the religion that is causing people to do this. It is their zealotry that is doing it. Just like you gun proponents say it's not the gun's fault that people are committing crimes but the people's fault. It's the same thing here. And the funny thing is, many of you may feel that people have the right to bear arms and vote conservative and are card-carrying members of the NRA but you don't consider how inconsistent your beliefs are when it comes to stereotyping and blaming. There is nothing excusable about what happened today, but what is going to as inexcusable is the prejudice and hate that is going to spread like wildfire if people like you are allowed to continue to voice this uninformed, bigoted opinion.

Are you really uninformed? I can only presume so based on your interpretation of the religion of Islam. What do you know about the religion? Can you cite doctrine that tells people to reign terror on innocents? Where in the religion does it specify that terrorism is ok? I didn't think you could find any examples... Why don't people like you think for a change rather than spew what the TV news anchors and newspapers tell you? Wake up and stop judging...

Captain Obvious · Sep 11, 2001, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by mike one:


third. it is time to reinstate U.S. state sponsered assassinations of potential threats to the U.S. We've sowed seeds of extreme hatred and instability throughout the world: iran, iraq, palestien, bin-laden, and we've left some of these leaders alive to contiplate, plan, plot, and act. To diffuse these potential threats, we will have to be more aggressive, more proactive. We'll have to kill these fu#king ba$tard$ before they can kill any more innocent people.

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: mike one ]

Yup, exactly. There's actually a bill that gets presented every year by some senator (i cant remember who right now) that is exactly that. But it never gets out for a vote.

fisherKing · Sep 11, 2001, 06:14 PM

i've been watching from my fire escape all day, i'm about 20 blocks from the WTC...

the view looks like an insane photoshop trick...
still can't believe what i've seen today.

my friend works a block from the wtc; he watched people jump from the building while his shook...
he got home right then.

my ex-girlfriends brother & his kid were gonna go to the wtc today...
so my ex was gonna drop them off on the path train...

watching the first tower collapse is the most frightening thing i have EVER seen (& that includes windows xp...

)

anyway, without sounding corny, let's wait for all the facts, stick together & save the fighting for...the enemy.

MacmanX · Sep 11, 2001, 06:21 PM

Afgahnastan's capitol is reported by the BBC to be under attack. No confirmation yet! Unclear where the reports are coming from or who the supposed attackers may be. For the love of god, don't let it be the US...

macvillage.net · Sep 11, 2001, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by mike one:
second. the head of the port authority police (which is the policing agency responsible for the WTC) said that each building has about 10,000 people working in them with about 5000 visitors per day.
some reports say a total of about 50,000 people for both builidings. the real number is somewhere in the middle. The death toll will be in the thousands. not hundreds.

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: mike one ]

I have to say I don't think the death total witll be 50k, but I do think it will be in the tens of thousands. The WTC is all that is getting publicity right now, but don't forget what is to come. I do belive there will be looting and even some rioting tonight. The "experts" on tv said this morning that they most likely would declare martial law if needed. Remember that the city is in chaios right now. All fire and police can't work 24x7. Eventually some have to get some rest. Tonight will be a test for NYC. Right now there are over a million who are stranded in NYC for the night, most will be wandering the streets. Every hotel is filled. Nobody had any idea that will happen. Nobody knows what will happen. Many know that their family presumes them dead, and are unable to contact them due to the many problems with getting a phone (most cell phones in the tri state area including mine are having lots of trouble). Imagine knowing that your family is strugling with the thought of you being dead, and you can't even let them know you are all right. Tonight will be very tough, and with a heavy heart I do belive that more will die tonight. More will die at the hands of others who do not know where to channel their anger to, so they turn it towards there fellow American assuming that because they are from a region associated with terrorism, that they were involved. This is sad, but a fact. Already there has been video published of people vandalizing taxi cabs. This is terrible, and shows what evil exists in this world. I am scaired sh!t about the next 72 hours and hope that everyone else realizes what a serious situation is at hand. The worst is NOT behind us, but right before us. That was the easy part which required no effort on behalf of Americans, now it is time for us to show that we will not surcome to the evil which has been exibited on us. We will stand up and show the world that we shall overcome this and rebuild, but never forget. America must prove that it can withstand this punishment and not crumble upon itself like the buildings did today, instead we must hold strong and continue to function as a society, and as a country.

Watching the second plane crash into the building was a disturbing image that I know I will think of every day until I die. The thought of how many lives were effected by that quick even is unbelieveable. How many people perished as a result of something that doesn't even look real is beyond me.

These are the times that try mens souls.

ThinkInsane · Sep 11, 2001, 06:24 PM

Oh no, who just bombed Afganastan? There goes the Kabul airport. Oh-My...

I hear F-16's going over my house right now (174th TFW from Hancock Field) and I am loving the sound of it.

Miami · Sep 11, 2001, 06:27 PM

EDIT: i'm not willing to participate in this discussion anymore.

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: Miami ]

IceEnclosure · Sep 11, 2001, 06:28 PM

The NYC skyline with the WTC

a pic i took while visiting NYC in '99...

bastards

Ice

[gzl: img -> url]

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: gorgonzola ]

FormerLurker · Sep 11, 2001, 06:30 PM

We are going after Bin-Laden, it's a virtual certainty.

Bush should say:
We will cross into any nation where we believe we can find him. We will notify the government of that nation that we are coming in, and if they decline to invite us, we'll be coming anyway, and responding appropriately to ANY resistance from ANY party.

they just showed footage of Bush's statement just before leaving Booker Elementary, on our local news.

"two planes have crashed into the World Trade Center, in an apparent terrorist attack on our country"

"those responsible will be hunted down and dealt with"

"I will be returning to Washington now, and the Lt. Governer and [someone] will continue today's education program."

then he asked for the moment of silence and closed with asking for prayer for victims and families.

it was interesting to see the looks on the faces of the predominately-black first graders and their parents, as they realized they were seeing unprecedentedly tragic and historic news being delivered to the President for the first time.

They were in effect participating in history, instead of being part of an inner-city education photo-op as was originally planned.

MacmanX · Sep 11, 2001, 06:36 PM

The BBC is reporting a Pentagon statement that the US are not launching the attack! This is not an American strike. It just feels like the world is erupting around us.

The Solomon Brothers building has also collapsed (old news I assume.)

sek929 · Sep 11, 2001, 06:41 PM

Im with think on this situation,

Right now is not the time to be sitting with our thumbs up our asses. I say if you are a known terrorist you will die now, the world does not need this **** , we really don't. These people (refferring to terrorists) are subhuman if human at all and should be exterminated like bugs.

We really shouldn't have wait to take action until something as horryfying as this happens, it saddens me. Lets learn from our mistakes shall we?

Mac The Fork · Sep 11, 2001, 06:43 PM

Bombing this terrorist threat, whatever it is, would be akin to bombing the Mafia. I'm sure we'll all try it though.

roger_ramjet · Sep 11, 2001, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:

...what was done was cowardly...

No it wasn't. It was hateful, evil, indiscriminate, contemptuous of human life but it wasn't cowardly. They embraced their deaths for their twisted cause. That's how serious this is. I'm all in favor of helping their fellow terrorists and co-conspirators to embrace more death but they're not cowards.

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]

parallax · Sep 11, 2001, 06:50 PM

Ice, Gzl's okay.

macvillage.net · Sep 11, 2001, 06:51 PM

Terorists win when they get their target down no it's knees. I will not surcome to this, and I hope that all other Americans agree. I WILL NOT BE INTIMIDATED BY THESE ACTS. I will not avoid federal buildings, and I hope the US does get and punish anyone involved. I will not start hiding under my bed, but will function tomorrow with a heavy heart, but never the less will resume normal activity, I will not sit around scaired, then they claim victory.

Damn them all to hell

Those mother ****ers

edddeduck · Sep 11, 2001, 06:52 PM

Think Insane ...

How can you be "loving it right now"

Have you know understanding? of what happened people have died!!.

Also I think before any attack is launched the US and the rest of the world has to be 100% or we might kill just as many inoccent people becoming no better that the twisted and sick people who did this.

The people who have done this need to be punished and todo so you need to be sure of who they are...

macvillage.net · Sep 11, 2001, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by parallax:
Ice, Gzl's okay.

Good to hear.

Is any other forum member unaccounted for that we suspect may have been effected?

edddeduck · Sep 11, 2001, 07:02 PM

Good to hear about gzl

I cannot think of anyone but I rarely look at the from info..

My fingers are crossed but there is nothing I can really do or say to help.

The only real tought I have is why????

IceEnclosure · Sep 11, 2001, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by edddeduck:
Think Insane ...

How can you be "loving it right now"

Have you know understanding? of what happened people have died!!.

Quote correctly or don't quote at all... he's 'loving the sound' of the F-16s flying over... Patriotism... have you ever been to a US Military Air Show? One cannot help but get goosebumps when the F-16s fly overhead. This, I believe, is what he meant.

He surely has understanding. And he wants a little repayment, surely. As do I.

MikeM32 · Sep 11, 2001, 07:06 PM

My prayers go out to those who'se lives were lost In New York City, Washington D.C. and Pennsylvania.

I work and live in the same town in Northern New Jersey about 10 miles outside Manhattan. My workday starts at 8:00 am, by roughly 9:00 am a co-worker from another department came by yelling out "a plane just crashed into the world trade center".

So we openned the blinds of our second floor departments eastward facing windows, and low and behold the usual 1/3 top-most view of the Towers was showing one tower billowing with smoke.

The events unfolded as the day went on. The reports on the radio of the crash on the pentagon, the reports of hijacked planes, the second crash on the other tower, etc., etc. We watched in horror as the Towers disintigrated to the ground. My co-workers were hysterical, some crying, or worried about loved ones they knew were in the city today. I also wept, and offered many a hug to many a co-worker. I know I didn't know anyone at the WTC or in that area today, but I cried at the sheer loss, and the total stupidity of our species. Another "Holy War" probably.

In my 33 years I have never seen anything like this, I've never heard of anything on this scale. My Father fought in WW2, I've an uncle who was in the Navy at Pearl Harbor when the Japanese Empire Bombed. I myself served 2 years in the Navy. We were prepared to die if we had to, even if attacked, but that was part of the job.

But this is just a heinous under-handed "sort-of-warfare" at it's worst or what we like to refer to as "terrorism". Not that war is ever pretty or honorable, but this is just low-end "throw the cherry bomb in the school boys room crapper and run away" tactics.

It's time to kick some ass and show the world we won't take this **** anymore. The Gloves are off as far as I'm concerned. In the past we'd have tried to find exactly which terrorist group from which nation was responsible. This was so we could take that person or group out without hurting "innocent people". That is total Bullshit, that's obviously not going to work with these mongrels/heathens. They're also taking our innocent lives here and doing everything possible to make thier "point." These people are throwing stones at us and we're just going to sit here and cry? Bullshit! Nuke -em!!! It worked on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I'm willing to bet it'll work again.

If Bin Ladens (or whoevers) own country cannot keep this person under control then we will, and with blind prejudice, Wipe out the country he comes from I say. We merely do not have the time to search this person out. Perhaps when that message comes accross his "safe-harboring" nation will give them up. And if they don't they'll all just have to die along with them.

And if there's a war and the service will still take me at my age (since I do have previous service) I'll be the first in line.

Who's with me?

This is a time for real Nationalism in a positive way and we should bond together as a nation. Take an actual pride in what we are, who we are, where we're from, and tell the world we won't let people screw with us like this anymore. I'm sure we all don't think America is "perfect" but should you tolerate this sort of crap? Do you want to be the next victem?.........I didn't think so.

Put an American Flag outside your house or wear one on a T-Shirt or a button or something tomorrow. Show we won't take this crap and show those around you that we can overcome this and that our spirit is still alive.

Okay I'll get off my soapbox now (but I do feel strongly about this.........and usually I'm just indifferent)

Mike

edddeduck · Sep 11, 2001, 07:08 PM

Sorry I apologise its just I am a little shocked and tired and posted a little rashly but the rest of my post is heartfelt.

I just have heard to many gunho attitudes

I think you have to know how you are fighting 100% b4 you attack... I guess I am scared of the US reacting over the top and starting world war 3.....

I doubt it as I belive the US and the rest of the world will come together and help if finding and giving suitiable pay back.....

Yours Edd

guerro · Sep 11, 2001, 07:27 PM

Does the word "Anti-Christ" mean anything to anyone ?? We are witnessing acts of Biblical proportions. May God have mercy on all of us.

Ca$hs Unemployed Mother · Sep 11, 2001, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by guerro:
Does the word "Anti-Christ" mean anything to anyone ?? We are witnessing acts of Biblical proportions. May God have mercy on all of us.

Oh come on. Some well organized radicals have nothing to do with the bible or Anti-Christ.

They will be found and punished.

IceEnclosure · Sep 11, 2001, 07:35 PM

i'm wearing this as we speak.... it's my show of support for our Nation, and the actions I feel we must take to rid the World of such individuals, and those who follow them.

Ice.

gorgonzola · Sep 11, 2001, 07:44 PM

A little food for thought, especially considering how long ago this was written:

The law would say that to be patient under calamity is best, and that we should not give way to impatience, as the good and evil in such things are not clear, and nothing is gained by impatience; also, because no human thing is of serious importance, and grief stands in the way of that which at the moment is most required.

What is most required? he asked.

That we should take counsel about what has happened, and when the dice have been thrown, according to their fall, order our affairs in the way which reason deems best; not, like children who have had a fall, keeping hold of the part struck and wasting time in setting up a howl, but always accustoming the soul forthwith to apply a remedy, raising up that which is sickly and fallen, banishing the cry of sorrow by the healing art.

The Republic, Book X, by Plato.

shmerek · Sep 11, 2001, 07:59 PM

First let me say tht I cannot express how sad I am for the lose of life today. I don't have cable so does anyone know what kind of response there has been from countries like China, India, and Pakistan?

Whoever did this is insane if Bin Laden did it I don't think he will of helped his relationship with the Talliban. Which ever country is harbouring which ever group did this will have to choose between handing them over and their own survival.

I believe in seeking retribution for these terrorist acts but I don't think that the US should bomb the **** out of some country killing innocent civilians along with there target. And as far as the Palistinians celebrating the event: **** them! They just lost all their humanity in my eyes.

My prayers go out to the deceased, the injured and to the families.
Peace.

Ruddigger · Sep 11, 2001, 08:10 PM

You guys wanna hear something freaky?

"In the City of God there will be a great thunder,
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos,
while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb"
"The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" - Nostradamus 1654

Leonard · Sep 11, 2001, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:


A couple of things about your little post. There will be no "Proven Guilty". This will not see the courts. This is a military matter and should be dealt with as such. Swiftly and without mercy. And I don't care if they randomly wipe out terrorist cells that weren't responsible. How about this for a national policy: If you belong to a terrorist group, you better duck MOTHER****ER. If you know there is a terrorist base in Libya, start lobbing the Tomahawks, and then send in an A-Team to clean up anyone that might have been hiding in the basement. If you have a cell in Afghanistan, let them wake up and see how they like being surrounded by a battalion of Rangers. Lets drop SEAL teams through their skylights as they sit down to dinner and Marines on their doorsteps. This has nothing to do with religion. I say **** them all. They picked a fight, and should be prepared to deal with the consequences of their actions.

I for one couldn't agree more... who cares if you get the wrong terrorist group. Their terrorists. If they weren't responsible for this incident, they were responsible for something else I'm sure.

4.669 · Sep 11, 2001, 08:17 PM

I can't believe this,a lot of people I went to high school with work in the financial district.

btober · Sep 11, 2001, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Ruddigger:
You guys wanna hear something freaky?

"In the City of God there will be a great thunder,
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos,
while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb"
"The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" - Nostradamus 1654

Woah... freaky indeed!

We watched this entire situation at school today and I am just extremely shocked. I never really understood what adults meant by remembering exactly what they were doing when JFK was shot. Now I do.

My prayers/thoughts are with everyone.