[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Nope but DVD players did.

DVD FAQ

Compatibility problems (DVD, HD DVD, Blu-ray) ≠ Changing the spec a year later so that most previous models are orphaned (Blu-ray)

Furthermore, many of the problems with DVDs listed in your link were fixed with service/firmware updates to the DVD players (or else a rerelease to replace a buggy disc). That is impossible with most existing Blu-ray players, because the hardware simply isn't there.

[icruise]

So should they have just left the spec the way it was? I know that doing it right from the beginning would have been the best option, but failing that, I would think that improving the spec right now when there are very few standalone players is the best option.

We all know that if they hadn't made any changes, you'd be complaining about how backward Blu-ray was in terms of features, so it seems like there's no way for them to win.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

So should they have just left the spec the way it was? I know that doing it right from the beginning would have been the best option, but failing that, I would think that improving the spec right now when there are very few standalone players is the best option.

We all know that if they hadn't made any changes, you'd be complaining about how backward Blu-ray was in terms of features, so it seems like there's no way for them to win.

Indeed. They fscked up.

They simply were too arrogant and thought consumers would just roll over and hand over their money for whatever was offered. That didn't happen. Blu-ray standalone sales are in the toilet.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

300 Breaks High Definition Record - Superhero Hype!

Can't wait to see the breakdown of which format sold the most.

[Dakarʒ]

It's a perfect movie for the Hi-Def format.

[macintologist]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Lame

"Samsung would not have a Blu-ray player with the updated specs until 2008."

I think this whole format war is lame.

[goMac]

And no Bluray on the new iMacs...

I'm still waiting for this massive exclusive Bluray support for consumers that is supposed to be coming from Apple. I mean, they have the GPU now to do fully graphics accelerated Bluray and HD-DVD.

(Of course I could still be gravely mistaken, Apple could have a surprise announcement, but the specs on the iMac say 8x Superdrive...)

[icruise]

And there's no HD-DVD drive either. It still sounds like we have no idea of what Apple will be doing.

[Dakarʒ]

They remain damn dirty neutrals.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

I think this whole format war is lame.

I agree.

Originally Posted by goMac 

And no Bluray on the new iMacs...

I'm still waiting for this massive exclusive Bluray support for consumers that is supposed to be coming from Apple. I mean, they have the GPU now to do fully graphics accelerated Bluray and HD-DVD.

(Of course I could still be gravely mistaken, Apple could have a surprise announcement, but the specs on the iMac say 8x Superdrive...)

Originally Posted by icruise 

And there's no HD-DVD drive either. It still sounds like we have no idea of what Apple will be doing.

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

They remain damn dirty neutrals.

Yeah, I thought it was pretty unlikely Apple would be putting Blu-ray or HD DVD burners in iMacs this year. However, I was hoping they would add hi-def disc burning support (HD DVD and Blu-ray) in iDVD, for DVD-R media.

OTOH, it wouldn't really make sense. If they added Blu-ray along with HD DVD support, that would annoy the pro people, since DVD Studio Pro doesn't even have Blu-ray support yet. If they added just HD DVD support (which DVD Studio Pro already has), then they would be moving away from their stated neutrality. (Mind you, they are already less than completely neutral, as they remain more supportive of HD DVD in practice than neutral, so why not do the same with iLife? )

Too bad though. I guess we'll have to wait for Leopard and iLife '09.

[goMac]

Apple did mention HD video though. They said the preferred means for distribution is online, currently.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

They remain damn dirty neutrals.

I have no strong feelings either way.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I have no strong feelings either way.

What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?

[sek929]

I totally had that line in mind, but my worry of butchering it prevailed.

Also, this HD war conjures visions of people standing ten inches from their 1080p displays proclaiming that their format is superior in every aspect.

I probably would have bought one by now if there wasn't two (almost identical to the layperson) formats that both would serve my needs fine.

[goMac]

"“The HD DVD of 300 is clearly the superior version, boasting some exclusive special features such as a picture-in-picture bluescreen version of the film, web-enabled extras and more,” said optical storage analyst Wesley Novack. “The only exclusive feature found on the Blu-ray Disc version of the release is the uncompressed PCM audio track, which is nearly identical to the TrueHD audio found on the HD DVD release.”"

DailyTech - "300" Outlines HD DVD, Blu-ray Disc Differences

Hmmmmm...

[starman]

Home Theater Forum institutes a "zero tolerance" policy on "war-talk".

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...d.php?t=260573

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Blu-ray, HD DVD Overtake VHS in Sales | High-Def Digest

[Dakarʒ]

How anti-climactic.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Also, this HD war conjures visions of people standing ten inches from their 1080p displays proclaiming that their format is superior in every aspect.

Hilarious! And sadly, true.

[starman]

The BR version of 300 is outselling the HD-DVD version 65/35

Blu-ray continues to outpace HD DVD - Technology Live - USATODAY.com

[Dakarʒ]

So what's the most copies any next-gen movie has sold?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by starman 

The BR version of 300 is outselling the HD-DVD version 65/35

Blu-ray continues to outpace HD DVD - Technology Live - USATODAY.com

Damn! That's one big gap!

But goMac will be thrilled to see it is +2% higher than norm for HD. Must be all those standalone unit salez.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by goMac 

"“The HD DVD of 300 is clearly the superior version, boasting some exclusive special features such as a picture-in-picture bluescreen version of the film, web-enabled extras and more,” said optical storage analyst Wesley Novack. “The only exclusive feature found on the Blu-ray Disc version of the release is the uncompressed PCM audio track, which is nearly identical to the TrueHD audio found on the HD DVD release.”"

DailyTech - "300" Outlines HD DVD, Blu-ray Disc Differences

Hmmmmm...

Originally Posted by starman 

The BR version of 300 is outselling the HD-DVD version 65/35

Blu-ray continues to outpace HD DVD - Technology Live - USATODAY.com

Considering they have many times more standalone players and the HD version has the better extras, that's pretty high. Guess that proved a few peoples theory on here that the extras don't really seal the deal, as much as the film itself.

[icruise]

The HD-DVD version may have better extras, but there's still a lot on the Blu-ray version. In any case, there's only a very small population of people who are going to have both formats, so sales-wise, the differences between extras on one movie or the other make little difference. People buy the version they have the hardware for. The 300 sales are about what I would have expected, given the overall sales figures.

From the article:

Overall, released titles on Blu-ray outnumber HD DVD roughly 2-to-1

Is that accurate? I thought the number of titles was a lot closer to being equal.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Considering they have many times more standalone players and the HD version has the better extras, that's pretty high. Guess that proved a few peoples theory on here that the extras don't really seal the deal, as much as the film itself.

I watched a few extra's on the BR 300 version. Interesting for about 5 minutes to see that it was pretty much one big blue room with sand, after that I couldn't care to watch the rest just like any DVD I have.

I consider it a plus there is no picture in picture of the whole damn movie infront of a bluescreen on BR.

[goMac]

So much for the PS3 being Bluray's secret weapon... Only 40% of PS3 owners are actually aware of the PS3's Bluray drive:
How Do I Hd: Most PS3, Xbox 360 Owners Unaware Of HD Features - Kotaku

[pyrite]

Wow... probably a massive reason behind them not selling as well as they should be.

Yet again, confirmation that the gaming world is driven by n00bs (with games like Transformers topping the charts...)

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by icruise 

The HD-DVD version may have better extras, but there's still a lot on the Blu-ray version. In any case, there's only a very small population of people who are going to have both formats, so sales-wise, the differences between extras on one movie or the other make little difference. People buy the version they have the hardware for. The 300 sales are about what I would have expected, given the overall sales figures.

From the article:


Is that accurate? I thought the number of titles was a lot closer to being equal.

Not even close to being accurate. BluRay has a 279-272 lead domestically, but HD-DVD has the lead internationally. In fact, many BluRay exclusive movies are available on HD-DVD outside of the US.

[starman]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Not even close to being accurate. BluRay has a 279-272 lead domestically, but HD-DVD has the lead internationally. In fact, many BluRay exclusive movies are available on HD-DVD outside of the US.

Source?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by starman 

Source?

If you're asking about Blu-ray exclusives being on HD DVD, just check through Amazon.co.uk or Amazon.de or something. This should not be a surprise because different companies hold distribution rights in different countries.

For example, Hero is Sony Picture Classics in the US, but it's Alliance/Universal in Canada. And it's yet another company in Germany.



Two problems:

1) Cost. It's usually often more expensive. That said, I got some HD DVDs from the UK for cheap, including Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, which isn't out on either HD DVD or Blu-ray in North America yet.
2) Subtitles. For English language movies it's not a problem for us, but for foreign language HD DVDs released outside of North America, there may not be English subs. So, you have to check this before you order an HD DVD from overseas.

The bonus though is HD DVDs are region free. (Blu-ray isn't region free.)

Ironically, although Hero would be Blu-ray exclusive in the US of A, Hero isn't even out on Blu-ray yet.

For a more common example of a Blu-ray exclusive on HD DVD, there is Terminator 2.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

So 300 on Next gen has tought us many things.

1) HD-DVD may have "supirior extra's" but not enough to sell equal or more than BR. No java popups, no "Downloadable content" or "less DMR". People love and buy BR.
2) PS3's are having a way way bigger inpact on this war whiich is why ever HD press release tries to exclude PS3's from sales statistics.
3) All those silly sales on the HD side hasn't helped much at all.
4) Next gen is starting to sell REALLY well as 250,000 SOLD in one week is pretty damn high considering the departed was the next best seller at 100,000.
5) No sales on HD side is going to help much at this point as if you don't want one at $150 with 5 DVD's another $50 isn't going to help beat BR.
6) Studio's can no longer ignore how well BR movies sell in comparison to HD so it is only a matter of WHEN not IF Universal go neutral and end HD for good shortly after.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

So much for the PS3 being Bluray's secret weapon... Only 40% of PS3 owners are actually aware of the PS3's Bluray drive:
How Do I Hd: Most PS3, Xbox 360 Owners Unaware Of HD Features - Kotaku

40%!? THAT IS A DAMN HIGH AMOUNT!??
What persentage of 360 owners get HD? 5%?

And if you really still think the PS3 isn't making BR win this war you're hilarious

[pyrite]

meh.
Fair speculations, but still speculations... PS3 still isn't popular enough to even come CLOSE to guaranteeing BD's success, and, as we know, a lot of the PS3 install base knows crap all about Blu-Ray anyway... who the hell knows. I own neither, so don't really care much who wins, so long as there is a clear winner and not a 3 year battle involving more format-exclusive titles. I'm barracking for HD-DVD so I can buy the cheap 360 add-on drive

[pyrite]

Sprinkles, note that only HALF of that 40% have even WATCHED a BD movie on their PS3... There's no point comparing the two (360/PS3), coz 360 has NEVER been intended as the format-pushing machine the PS3 is. Considering Sony's intentions, 20% watching Blu-Ray is an abysmal figure IMO.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by pyrite 

Sprinkles, note that only HALF of that 40% have even WATCHED a BD movie on their PS3... There's no point comparing the two (360/PS3), coz 360 has NEVER been intended as the format-pushing machine the PS3 is. Considering Sony's intentions, 20% watching Blu-Ray is an abysmal figure IMO.

If they can sell that many Bluray movies compared to HD-DVD head to head with only 40% of people ever watching a movie on the PS3, and the small standalone percentage, as everyone likes to point out, that kinda sucks more for HD-DVD though. They have a lot of advantages based on what you are trying to point out but can't deliver. Obviously someones math is off here on something. My bet is this 40% number, being that the first batch of PS3s at launch CAME with a movie (Talledega Nights in the US, Casino Royale in the UK), so I don't buy that 40% number at all.

[pyrite]

hmm fair points... i just hope a clear winner emerges by year's end, coz i'm not buyin nothin til one does

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by pyrite 

Sprinkles, note that only HALF of that 40% have even WATCHED a BD movie on their PS3... There's no point comparing the two (360/PS3), coz 360 has NEVER been intended as the format-pushing machine the PS3 is. Considering Sony's intentions, 20% watching Blu-Ray is an abysmal figure IMO.

Dude, even only 20% watching BR movies is far above the percentage of 360 owners who got an HD drive. If HD add ons count for half of HD player sales that is scary.

[pyrite]

yeah ok, again a fair point

In a way, it's a shame to see Sony winning this war. Something about the way they've been playing the game has pissed me off a bit from day one.. In fact, everything I've heard of Sony's philosophies of late has been disappointing. Despite the fact that it's clearly superior in terms of present and potential storage, they've ditched authoring standards and made ridiculous statements (like their premature announcement that they'd won the format war) that have made me back the less-propietary, more consumer/publisher friendly format.
I guess in the end, they both look and sound freaking amazing, and studios will pick up on Sony's authoring environment (whatever that is) in good time, but I wish Sony would come to the party instead of starting a new one, just once.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Dude, even only 20% watching BR movies is far above the percentage of 360 owners who got an HD drive. If HD add ons count for half of HD player sales that is scary.

Actually, what's scarier is that the PS3 accounts for the vast majority of BD player sales.

The statistic quoted above just confirms what many have said all along... It takes many more PS3s to equal a standalone, and Blu-ray can't depend on the PS3 alone to win the Blu-ray war for them. They need cheap full-spec standalones, but unfortunately, they have been reluctant and slow to introduce them.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by starman 

Source?

HD DVD Statistics
Blu-ray Disc Statistics

Eug already mentioned the imports info.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

So 300 on Next gen has tought us many things.

1) HD-DVD may have "supirior extra's" but not enough to sell equal or more than BR. No java popups, no "Downloadable content" or "less DMR". People love and buy BR.
2) PS3's are having a way way bigger inpact on this war whiich is why ever HD press release tries to exclude PS3's from sales statistics.
3) All those silly sales on the HD side hasn't helped much at all.
4) Next gen is starting to sell REALLY well as 250,000 SOLD in one week is pretty damn high considering the departed was the next best seller at 100,000.
5) No sales on HD side is going to help much at this point as if you don't want one at $150 with 5 DVD's another $50 isn't going to help beat BR.
6) Studio's can no longer ignore how well BR movies sell in comparison to HD so it is only a matter of WHEN not IF Universal go neutral and end HD for good shortly after.

Actually, 300 on next gen has shown us this:
1) Less than 10% of BluRay owners bought 300.
2) Over 30% of HD-DVD owners bought 300.
3) The attach rate for BluRay players is still less than 1.
4) Despite selling 250,000 in a week, HD discs are still a drop in the bucket for home video sales, only accounting for less than 1% of the market.

Standalone players sell more movies. Period. And HD-DVD has higher standalone sales. As Toshiba moves more units, the sales numbers will again shift into HD-DVD's lead. It's just a question of when (I'm guessing this holiday season).

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by Eug 

OTOH, it wouldn't really make sense. If they added Blu-ray along with HD DVD support, that would annoy the pro people, since DVD Studio Pro doesn't even have Blu-ray support yet. If they added just HD DVD support (which DVD Studio Pro already has)

DVD Studio exports HD DVD (more in a moment) to any external blue laser drives (HD-DVD and Blu-ray) without mentioning either format specifically.

For commercial replication, choose one of the traditional red laser formats or double the capacity on your HD DVD disc by using a blue laser format.

Note "a blue laser format" and not any of the two specifically. Carefully note also when Apple says HD DVD they do not mean the next generation HD DVD disc format. They simply mean 'high definition digital video disc' which includes Blu-ray, HD on normal DVDs, and HD-DVD disc formats (support is included for the final 1.0 spec).

Some confusion arises from the way Apple uses the abbreviation inside the application. Apple uses terms SD DVD and HD DVD in the application for resolution purposes only.



When Blu-ray spec is finalized an update will be available to add copyright protection. Until then DVD Studio Pro can still record h.264 and other HD content to any blue laser drive (a Blu-ray or HD DVD) as long as the drive you have has OS X drivers.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Actually, what's scarier is that the PS3 accounts for the vast majority of BD player sales.

The statistic quoted above just confirms what many have said all along... It takes many more PS3s to equal a standalone, and Blu-ray can't depend on the PS3 alone to win the Blu-ray war for them. They need cheap full-spec standalones, but unfortunately, they have been reluctant and slow to introduce them.

You bring this up everytime, yet the fact is the percentages have been consistant head to head for the entire year at about a 60-40 sale rate. The standalone units may not be flying off the sheleves like you like but the media is, when you look at units moved. If anything this proves you have a lot more growth potential.

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Actually, 300 on next gen has shown us this:
1) Less than 10% of BluRay owners bought 300.
(Sales were a 60-40 split)

2) Over 30% of HD-DVD owners bought 300.
(Sales were a 40-60 split)

3) The attach rate for BluRay players is still less than 1.
(Irrelevant. Looking at raw sales they are still outselling the competition. Of course there is room for improvement.)

4) Despite selling 250,000 in a week, HD discs are still a drop in the bucket for home video sales, only accounting for less than 1% of the market.
(No surprise or debate here. Not gonna happen for a few years at the earliest.)

Standalone players sell more movies. Period. And HD-DVD has higher standalone sales. As Toshiba moves more units, the sales numbers will again shift into HD-DVD's lead. It's just a question of when (I'm guessing this holiday season).

Are you serious? HD-DVD has ALWAYS had more standalones and have never sold more media. You guys are looking at percentages only, try comparing raw units and you see a different story. This is the thing about statistics I don't like, they are ALWAYS debatable depending on how you look at them.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Note "a blue laser format" and not any of the two specifically. Carefully note also when Apple says HD DVD they do not mean the next generation HD DVD disc format. They simply mean 'high definition digital video disc' which includes Blu-ray, HD on normal DVDs, and HD-DVD disc formats (support is included for the final 1.0 spec).

Um. Yes they do. When you burn an HD-DVD disc in DVD Studio, it is encoded using the next generation HD-DVD disc encoding. If you take what DVD Studio outputs and either directly burn it to a DVD, or send it to an HD-DVD burner elsewhere, it will work. The encoded HD that DVD Studio outputs will not work if you send it to a Bluray burner.

They are not using HD DVD as a generic term. They really do mean the HD-DVD format standard.

[Eug]

Are you serious? HD-DVD has ALWAYS had more standalones and have never sold more media. You guys are looking at percentages only, try comparing raw units and you see a different story. This is the thing about statistics I don't like, they are ALWAYS debatable depending on how you look at them.

No, the point is the PS3 is just not the saviour Sony made it out to be. The point of the PS3 was to blow HD DVD out of the water before it could gain any traction at all.

Unfortunately, that didn't happen. The PS3 was released late and was overpriced, and they've only recently reduced the pricing after seeing just how mediocrely it sold.

Because of this, HD DVD was given time to get its foot in the door, and so far it has never left. So, we're stuck in a situation where we have 2 Blu-ray sales for every 1 HD DVD sale in terms of actual discs, and that is not enough to win the war. Basically this means the war will continue... as standalone sales increase and console sales become less important.

Blu-ray could win the war... if they simply released full-featured players at competitive prices, but they refuse to do this. I don't understand why. My suspicion is that the hardware is more expensive to produce, and the Blu-ray manufacturers are not willing to stomach commoditized hardware pricingt so early in the game, and were still hoping to fleece us on the hardware.

The vitriolic reaction of Panasonic to manufacturers of hybrid players is rather telling. Panasonic clearly wasn't willing to compete on price or features. They wanted to profit by restricting choice.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Blu-ray could win the war today... if they simply released full-featured players at competitive prices, but they refuse to do this. I don't understand why.

Wait, you don't understand why Blu-ray players are more expensive? You actually think that the manufacturers of Blu-ray players are pricing them so much higher than HD-DVD players just to take advantage of consumers? Of course the hardware is more expensive to produce. It's more of a departure from traditional DVD hardware than HD-DVD is. I thought this was common knowledge.

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Are you serious? HD-DVD has ALWAYS had more standalones and have never sold more media. You guys are looking at percentages only, try comparing raw units and you see a different story.

Everyone knows that standalones will have a higher attach rate than something like the PS3. We've said this time and again. But as you say, percentages can be very misleading (and that's why certain people are so fond of quoting them). "Only" 20% of users buying movies sounds bad until you realize that it's equivalent to 1 million+ users. Yeah, the PS3 wasn't the slam-dunk Sony hoped it would be (mostly because of its price) but it's still enough to swing things in Blu-ray's favor. And the thing that people don't mention is that getting PS3 users who haven't used BR before to try out a BR movie is a hell of a lot easier than getting someone to buy new hardware. So you've got millions of potential users out there, just waiting for an HD movie that grabs their attention. That's a big deal.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Wait, you don't understand why Blu-ray players are more expensive? You actually think that the manufacturers of Blu-ray players are pricing them so much higher than HD-DVD players just to take advantage of consumers? Of course the hardware is more expensive to produce. It's more of a departure from traditional DVD hardware than HD-DVD is. I thought this was common knowledge.

Not really. The lens on the players will be different sizes, but aside from that... Most the differences are software. There aren't radical differences in the hardware. This is why we've had hybrid players appear so quickly.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Eug 

No, the point is the PS3 is just not the saviour Sony made it out to be. The point of the PS3 was to blow HD DVD out of the water before it could gain any traction at all.

Unfortunately, that didn't happen. The PS3 was released late and was overpriced, and they've only recently reduced the pricing after seeing just how mediocrely it sold.

Because of this, HD DVD was given time to get its foot in the door, and so far it has never left. So, we're stuck in a situation where we have 2 Blu-ray sales for every 1 HD DVD sale in terms of actual discs, and that is not enough to win the war. Basically this means the war will continue... as standalone sales increase and console sales become less important.

There was no way the PS3 was going to blow out the gate at $600 to kill HD-DVD. Being most people in here think Sony is full of it. Why you guys believed that one, I can only guess. I didn't buy that, and I HAVE a PS3. Considering what it HAS done at $600, now $500 is pretty impressive, but I do agree it could be a lot better. Even with the screw ups they are still doing better than what I, personally, expected.

Blu-ray could win the war... if they simply released full-featured players at competitive prices, but they refuse to do this. I don't understand why. My suspicion is that the hardware is more expensive to produce, and the Blu-ray manufacturers are not willing to stomach commoditized hardware pricingt so early in the game, and were still hoping to fleece us on the hardware.

Most likely because no one wants to take the hit for how long it would take to end it. No one knows if that will work or how long it would take for the company to bleed to break even. Especially in a price war. This is like selling cheap PCs... look what that did the big companies. Saturation has pretty much killed companies that were once computer only. They are now all converting to all types of electronics to stay in business. (CompUSA, Gateway, Dell). History suggests why they won't do that out the gate, which is why you see a gradual price drop over time.

Hybrid players aren't a factor because they are at a high price range and don't support 100% of either players features, yet. Once they get those under control then they might be a factor but the prices for everything else are dropping as well.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

There was no way the PS3 was going to blow out the gate at $600 to kill HD-DVD.

That's the point. Few people suspected that Sony would be stupid enough to release a $600 console, esp. when the success of Blu-ray depended on it. It would seem even the other Blu-ray manufacturers were expecting a lower price. Indeed, it's interesting to note that even Howard Stringer - the frickin' CEO of Sony - was blindedsided by the pricing. Sony clearly has some issues to work out...

Hybrid players aren't a factor because they are at a high price range and don't support 100% of either players features, yet.

Which is a reason why I found Panasonic's response to them so telling. Given the prices that were so high, I too felt they would not make much of a real impact at this time... and they haven't. However, they're are symbolically huge, and Panasonic definitely sees that.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Hybrid players aren't a factor because they are at a high price range and don't support 100% of either players features, yet. Once they get those under control then they might be a factor but the prices for everything else are dropping as well.

The Samsungs support all the features on both formats (HD-DVD and Bluray 1.0).

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by goMac 

They are not using HD DVD as a generic term. They really do mean the HD-DVD format standard.

They're using it as a generic term. Go say what you said on the dvxuser forums and many professionals will tell you what it means. By HD DVD Apple means high definition resolution of any of the codecs supported by Blu-ray and HD-DVD players and also can be recorded on DVD discs.

SD DVD and HD DVD resolutions