[mrtew]

Originally Posted by finboy 

Which act included the shark that was jumped?

Originally Posted by mrtew 

oh for gods sake, anyone that thinks the shark has been jumped is no longer watching the show, let alone reading this thread so shut up already.... it wasn't even funny the first 25 times.

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

I think "finwuss" just learned the expression, so he's using it all too frequently because he's so hip and excited.

I've got a new expression for a show that gets totally lost and just starts throwing out 'unexpected' crap as a substitute for interesting writing that it once had.... "Became all cylons". I can't believe I was waiting for season 3 to come out on HDDVD. I can't believe I was waiting for the last episodes to make some sense of this season and get me excited about the next one. Anyone want to buy seasons one, two and 2.5 on DVD? I'm out.

[Chuckit]

How is Tigh being a cylon and Starbuck returning from the dead less interesting than the cylons taking over New Caprica?

[andi*pandi]

theory: kara's viper did not blow up. There really was a bogey she saw, some kind of ship on autopilot, and THAT blew up and convinced lee. Kara went elsewhere. Somewhere there were viper fixers who could give her a new uncracked windshield.

or, as goMac said, lee is seeing things.

[Sourbook]

It's not unreasonable to think that the Cylons had a captured colonial viper and that Kara was resurrected and is flying it.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I'm not convinced that's the most logical explanation, but even if we were to accept that, we still haven't gotten to "wormhole." As far as we know, wormholes don't exist in the universe of Galactica.

Isn't that how their "Jump drive" system works. They disappear from one place and appear at another without and "traveling" in between.

I think Lee might be seeing Kara in some vision though. The timing of her showing up plus the way her Viper had no transponder and just appearing/disappearing /reappearing was very similar to the way the raider acted in Maelstrom.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Considering she fell into the core of a giant gas planet, it's not really that surprising.

Adama offered to send a rescue party. You think he'd at least send a Raptor in to look for her body.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Maybe I'm thick, but how was this Viper more identical than any other two Vipers? I would say not being blown up actually makes this Viper more different from the one we saw in "Maelstrom" than most Vipers are from each other.

It's an old Mark II Viper, which wasn't even in service when the colonies were destroyed. It's like someone flying around in an F6F Hellcat. You simply don't find those lying around these days. If she was sent back, and had her choice of ship, wouldn't she have chosen something a little newer? Or a little more powerful?

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I'm not convinced that's the most logical explanation, but even if we were to accept that, we still haven't gotten to "wormhole." As far as we know, wormholes don't exist in the universe of Galactica.

Sure, it's just a theory, but somehow she's gotten to Earth and back. Even the she's-a-Cylon-who-resurrected theory could get her to Earth, but doesn't offer an explanation on how she could get back.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Hmm, if only there were some species on the show that's capable of dying and then coming back in a separate but identical form…

Which doesn't explain the Viper, getting to Earth, or getting back.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Maybe I'm having a premature senior moment, but I only recall him refusing to say what made Starbuck go boom. He seemed pretty sure she had.

The quote is:
"This was left deliberately vague. What do you think it was?"

I don't think that precludes the ship not being damaged. (Sorry I can't grab more of his quotes, Scifi.com blocked here at work.)

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I think Lee might be seeing Kara in some vision though. The timing of her showing up plus the way her Viper had no transponder and just appearing/disappearing /reappearing was very similar to the way the raider acted in Maelstrom.

I think this is the simplest explanation.

And I'm not sure if it was from the shitty quality of the Space broadcast, but it seemed as if Kara had a surreal, almost angelic aura to her.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I think I know what is going on to a point.
[...]
Starbuck says "Arora brings the morning star into fair wind. A fresh start." to Adama when she gives him the figurine
.
In other words "she" being Starbuck/Arora brings the MorningStar/Battlestar into fairwind/path to earth.
[...]

Adama also attaches the Arora figure to the front of his model ship as the mast head which is the same role Starbuck will be taking because of her death.
[...]
As the dawn goddess, she opened the gates of heaven (with "rosy fingers") so that Helios could ride his chariot across the sky every day."

That means that Starbuck needed to fly into the eye of the storm and the result is it somehow opens up a path to earth for the Battlestar to follow.

Looks like you were bang on! At least in the sense that she will find the path to Earth.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Visnaut 

Looks like you were bang on! At least in the sense that she will find the path to Earth.

Yep, I was confident it would play out like that back then as it was almost rubbed in our faces.

But yes like you mention starbuck did seem almost like an angelic vision.

I don't think what Lee saw was really Starbuck in the flesh. I do think that Starbuck is currently or will be acting more like a helpful spiritual guide. Pretty much exactly like the masthead Adama attached to the front of the model ship leading BSG where they need to go. Perhaps showing up in a vision to people here and there to set them in the right direction.

The timing of all of it was too strange. All at the same point 4 of the final 5 realize who they are, the whole fleet loses power (but not the vipers apparently), 4 basestars appear and just by chance Starbuck also appears in a different location from the Cylons offering to help out.

Some questions I have....

1) Are the Cylons there to fight (I can't remember if they came in guns blazing)? Perhaps they want to negotiate/talk or those 4 baseships are defectors from the other Cylons.

2) Where is the final Cylon? Why did they all get summed up at the same time and who flipped the call switch? If they didn't all show up why did it all still click when only 4 of 5 got together?

3) How old is Saul? He is the oldest of them bunch but it is strange how the final 4 are all different ages. If Thai is a a cylon from birth how did he fight in the first Cylon war when they were all still tin cans?

4) Remember in Season 1 when Leoben said to Roslyn "Adama is a Cylon" and we all just thought he was talking about Bill Adama or lying? Perhaps Leoben meant LEE Adama and he could have known this because he is one of those people who think what the Hybrid says is true.

On another note I knew by last episode that Saul was probably a Cylon because HEAD Baltar knew about the death of his wife and told Captured 6. How would either 6 or head baltar know of this? Whoever head baltar is it seems to know what is going on in the bigger picture and who has died. Very similar to the fake Leoben when he was guiding Starbuck to her "Death".

[scottiB]

Here's a RDM article that explains, a bit, about the cliffhanger.

Tori, Anders, Tyrol, and Tigh are 100% Cylon, but not the type of Cylons we know.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by scottiB 

Here's a RDM article that explains, a bit, about the cliffhanger.

Tori, Anders, Tyrol, and Tigh are 100% Cylon, but not the type of Cylons we know.

R: Are these four all full Cylons?

RM: Yes, but they are different fundamentally.

R: Will we meet the final fifth Cylon next season?

RM: I think so.

R: When the Cylon D'Anna (Lucy Lawless) glimpsed the face of one of the final five, she said, "I'm sorry." Since D'Anna tortured Tigh, can we presume she saw his face?

RM: We're developing a storyline dealing with D'Anna and what she saw and who she was talking to. We haven't talked to [Lucy Lawless] about it and she was just cast in a pilot, which makes it tricky. But it's something we would like to look at.

R: So did Apollo really see Starbuck or was he hallucinating?

RM: This, too, is a fine question. It's exactly the kind of thing I want people to chew over the next few months.

R:Is Katee Sackhoff, who plays Starbuck, signed for next season?

RM: Yes.

R: Where do the plans stand for a direct-to-DVD movie that flashes back to tell more of the story of the Pegasus and Admiral Cain (Michelle Forbes)?

RM: It's really just a couple of extra episodes for the fourth season that will air earlier than the rest of the season, sometime in the fall. They'll come out on DVD the next day.

R: Which cast members are in these two, one-hour extra episodes?

RM: The whole cast.

R: Why flashbacks?

RM: There is a tie from these episodes into the events in season four. ... It's an opportunity to set up something for the fourth season that had not been told to the audience and that the characters themselves hadn't realized, and then go into the fourth season.

Oh and the best part:

R: Will we ever see Galactica reach Earth? I'm nervous because of what happened on the original series when they reached Earth and the show became "Galactica 1980."

 

RM: We're dusting off the flying motorcycles, man. We have some great ideas for those babies.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon 

Don't know if anyone here has seen the site below, but if the spoilers posted there for next week are true, then wow. Given that some of what was posted there came to pass this evening, I'm inclined to think the rest will also.

Do *not* click on the link below if you don't want to know may transpire next week.

aintitcoolnews.com

It looks like they were bang on. I'm glad I didn't click on the link until now.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Oh dear lord. I just watched the trailer for next week with anders flat out saying "It's true, we're Cylons" with flashes of Adama and some others.

Unless there is a damn good story behind that I think the show just jumped the shark for me in one damn episode.

So, did the program leap over the Selachimorpha?

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Oh and the best part:

Interesting interview. The editorial comment at the end:

Rob's call: The producers had better make the decision to end "Galactica" in these final 22 hours, because given the show's low ratings, Sci Fi Channel isn't going to give them more episodes. As it is, a fourth season of 22 hours is hugely generous. I hope Moore and company see that as the gift that it is and give the show and its fans the proper ending due them.

I haven't seen the ratings. Are they that bad? How are the ratings in relation to the other shows on SciFi?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon 

I haven't seen the ratings. Are they that bad? How are the ratings in relation to the other shows on SciFi?

I wonder if this is part of the reason why the Season 4 premiere won't happen until January 2008:

Nov. 2006 article: Cable Star Fades in Network Fight

At first, "Battlestar" seemed to hold its own against the broadcast hype. Advance review copies of the first four episodes generated an unprecedented amount of preseason publicity, especially for a basic cable program. On Metacritic, a Web site that tracks reviews, "Battlestar's" third-season premiere was averaging a score of 94 out of 100 points, behind only HBO's "The Wire." "Battlestar" even made the cover of Entertainment Weekly, a Sci Fi Channel first.

Then came the ratings.

The third-season debut was down 29 percent among total viewers compared with the season-two debut in July 2005. Viewership for the first four episodes of the new season is down 20 percent compared with the first few episodes of season two.

A likely culprit for the decline of "Battlestar" was the start of the broadcast season Sept. 19. After experimenting for a few years with rolling shows out more sporadically, this year broadcasters came out guns blazing during an intense, short period with a barrage of shows, many of which were lavish serialized action-dramas-just like "Battlestar." Making matters more interesting: Two of the season's breakout dramas, NBC's "Heroes" and CBS's "Jericho," have sci-fi themes.

Cable networks traditionally don't run original dramas in fall out of fear of getting trounced. In recent years cable networks have become bolder in scheduling their strongest programs against broadcast competition.

Sci Fi Channel's other current drama, the freshman series "Eureka," also took a fall. The show debuted in July and was averaging 2.8 million viewers for nine weeks, then dropped an average 30 percent to 1.9 million viewers for the most recent four episodes.

The lesson: Fall is still the domain of broadcast.

"It's a mistake to premiere shows against network premieres," said Tim Brooks, TV historian and Lifetime's executive VP of research. "The fact that all the broadcast networks premiere their shows against each other is the greatest gift broadcast has ever given to cable. Why would any cable network fly straight into that?"

I think it's only part of the reason the current ratings may be down though. Another reason is the more rambling and potentially confusing nature of the writing, and the heavy melodramatic slant to some of the episodes.

[scottiB]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I think it's only part of the reason the current ratings may be down though. Another reason is the more rambling and potentially confusing nature of the writing, and the heavy melodramatic slant to some of the episodes.

Yep. And it is heavily serialized: the longer it goes, the harder it is for new viewers to drop-in and understand what's going on [Athena looks the same as a Cylon called Boomer, and Boomer is still alive, but not the same Boomer, really, she downloaded into a new body after being murdered].

Heavily serialized (especially across seasons) shows tend to lose audience over time.

I think waiting till January may help gain new viewers: Season 3 DVDs will come out, I believe in September, and it gives new viewers the ability to watch from the very beginning (and catch the the Pegasus DVD in November/December) in time for season 4.

[Yose]

Originally Posted by scottiB 

Here's a RDM article that explains, a bit, about the cliffhanger.

Tori, Anders, Tyrol, and Tigh are 100% Cylon, but not the type of Cylons we know.

Heh, in that article they list the actors real names beside their character names. When they get to Starbuck, they write "Starbuck (Kara Thrace)".

Ops!

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

3) How old is Saul? He is the oldest of them bunch but it is strange how the final 4 are all different ages. If Thai is a a cylon from birth how did he fight in the first Cylon war when they were all still tin cans?

Um, just a point of spelling: It's "Tigh", as in "Colonel Tigh", not as in "What I had for dinner last night." ;-)

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

So, did the program leap over the Selachimorpha?

So far no but they better have a damn good story behind the final 4 as it is the one thing I am kinda nervous about.

RDM said he just came up with the idea this season so I am disappointed it isn't one of those things were we can look back on older episodes and have some events make more sense or more interesting knowing they were Cylons.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Eug 

So, did the program leap over the Selachimorpha?

That's so last week!!! Now we just say "THEY SUCK" or something similar.

I won't go that far yet, but it looks like the whole idea is on the backside of the hump.

[bstone]

Another reason why the Viper that Starbuck was flying in was not the same as the one she disappeared in: it was jumping. It had an FTL drive. Lee saw it on his DRADIS and then it disappeared just like a ship does when it jumps, then it reappeared.

Just finished rewatching the episode. I am really impressed by the Cylon coming out scene with Tigh, Tyrol, Tory and Anders.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by bstone 

Another reason why the Viper that Starbuck was flying in was not the same as the one she disappeared in: it was jumping. It had an FTL drive. Lee saw it on his DRADIS and then it disappeared just like a ship does when it jumps, then it reappeared.

It didn't look like it was jumping (although I'm not sure). It could have just been Dradis interference.

Just finished rewatching the episode. I am really impressed by the Cylon coming out scene with Tigh, Tyrol, Tory and Anders.

T & A! I didn't like that scene (and the work up to it) very much at all. I guess we just have different tastes.

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by bstone 

the Cylon coming out scene

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by bstone 

Another reason why the Viper that Starbuck was flying in was not the same as the one she disappeared in: it was jumping.

None of them have FTL. Anyway, they were in a nebula so I think the signal was just jumping in and out.

But that does make another good case for Starbuck being a vision or something as if she didn't show up with the Cylons how the heck did she get there or refuel at any point? Vipers don't have much juice.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

None of them have FTL. Anyway, they were in a nebula so I think the signal was just jumping in and out.

But that does make another good case for Starbuck being a vision or something as if she didn't show up with the Cylons how the heck did she get there or refuel at any point? Vipers don't have much juice.

That's my point. The Viper she is in wasn't built by the Colonials but rather is one built on Earth, with FTL and all that extra juice. Supports the argument that the Viper she is in is clearly not the same that went kaboom.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by bstone 

That's my point. The Viper she is in wasn't built by the Colonials but rather is one built on Earth, with FTL and all that extra juice.

Um. ah.....

Well I am not with you on that one but if you think that I guess your guess is as good as any.

I for one don't get how a different culture on another planet that hasn't seen the 12 colonies technology can build a ship exactly the same (and even the retro mark II) and at the same time but also throw in power windows, locks and FTL.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Um. ah.....

Well I am not with you on that one but if you think that I guess your guess is as good as any.

I for one don't get how a different culture on another planet that hasn't seen the 12 colonies technology can build a ship exactly the same (and even the retro mark II) and at the same time but also throw in power windows, locks and FTL.

Since Starbuck's Viper went ka-boom, there is no other explanation as to where she got the one she is flying in. And since it has FTL, my point is reiterated that it cannot be the one she went ka-boom in.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by bstone 

Since Starbuck's Viper went ka-boom, there is no other explanation as to where she got the one she is flying in. And since it has FTL, my point is reiterated that it cannot be the one she went ka-boom in.

Or her Viper didn't go ka-boom, which makes a lot more sense.

Why would Earth give her a Mark II Viper anyway? If they can fit jump drives in a Viper, why a Mark II?

(And she wasn't FTL'ing. She was in a nebula and there was interference.)

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by bstone 

Since Starbuck's Viper went ka-boom, there is no other explanation as to where she got the one she is flying in. And since it has FTL, my point is reiterated that it cannot be the one she went ka-boom in.

I forgot that it was determined for a fact that it had an FTL drive. Where did they explain that in the show again?

There are MANY possible explanations for what happened, don't just assume you're right.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by bstone 

Since Starbuck's Viper went ka-boom, there is no other explanation as to where she got the one she is flying in. And since it has FTL, my point is reiterated that it cannot be the one she went ka-boom in.

Unless of course it is just in Lee's head to which case she could be flying on a giant cucumber with an FTL drive and it wouldn't make a difference.

[andi*pandi]

PHOTOSHOP. NOW.

[Chuckit]

[powerbook867]

oops

[Eriamjh]

I'm surprised no one has realized Tyrol has a kid. If he's a cylon, then his kid is half cylon.

[Stogieman]

So what's with the dream sequence between Athena, Roslyn, Six & Baltar? And why is Baltar the only one not experiencing the nightmares?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

I'm surprised no one has realized Tyrol has a kid. If he's a cylon, then his kid is half cylon.

You missed it.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

The only one that makes sence to me is the chief. Guess that means that his kid is also a hybrid.

[zerock]

about the ratings being low, well i hardly watch cable, i just use the iTunes Season Pass to catch up on BSG, that could be a reason..

[zerock]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

So what's with the dream sequence between Athena, Roslyn, Six & Baltar? And why is Baltar the only one not experiencing the nightmares?

well maybe he doesnt have the dreams, because is not the same Baltar, is seems to me as the one in Six's head, being shaved and all..

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

So what's with the dream sequence between Athena, Roslyn, Six & Baltar? And why is Baltar the only one not experiencing the nightmares?

It could be her head-Baltar in the dream sequences.

[SpaceMonkey]

Guys, I figured it out. The final cylon is BILLY!!!!!!

[zerock]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Guys, I figured it out. The final cylon is BILLY!!!!!!

i would totally love that

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I'd like it if Tom Zarek was the final 1. He couldn't get on BSG at the time of the other 4 met up as he isn't allowed on BSG.

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by bstone 

That's my point. The Viper she is in wasn't built by the Colonials but rather is one built on Earth, with FTL and all that extra juice. Supports the argument that the Viper she is in is clearly not the same that went kaboom.

Those are some pretty big leaps of logic there. So Starbuck's Viper explodes into a million little bits, somehow she survives, makes it to Earth, and they make her a brand new one? Exactly like her old one without any blueprints? Oh and an FTL drive to boot?

Earth must be full of idiot savants. Brilliant engineers who do everything to help except send out a fleet to help the rest of humanity.

Cripes, guys. The ending sequence didn't even show Starbuck's viper jumping with that traditional lens flare. Just an iffy DRADIS contact.

Plus, if that really was Starbuck in the flesh, don't you think she would have flown in to the hanger bay and personally told Admiral Adama where Earth is?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Visnaut 

Plus, if that really was Starbuck in the flesh, don't you think she would have flown in to the hanger bay and personally told Admiral Adama where Earth is?

She prefers to take the sentimental and dramatic approach.

[andi*pandi]

no one likes my "it was the bogie Starbuck saw that exploded, not Starbuck" theory?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Guys, I figured it out. The final cylon is BILLY!!!!!!

I always thought Billy was a Cylon. I think originally he was supposed to be one. His replacement actually became a Cylon.

Also, this new movie they're supposed to be doing... If it involves Cain, it would take place before Billy died. Think we'll see Billy back?

[Helmling]

I like the Zarac and Billy ideas, except Billy can't be in the Pegasis movie since it won't connect directly with Galactica.

Ok, my thoughts:

Kara is not the last of the final five. It's too obvious at this point that she be the one who was missing from one point of view. From another, all the other four remained who they were when they discovered their Cylon nature, but for Kara to be resurrected and flying a Cylon-provided Viper would mean she was acting in concert with the Cylons, which she would not do even if she was one of the 5 and now knew it.

So, if she's not Cylon, what's left?

The explosion did not destroy her Viper. She was transported somehow to Earth. This is problematic. There'd have to be a damned fine explanation of why Lee was sure she was gone. He is a trained officer and should be able to distinguish between a blast that could destroy a Viper and one that would not be massive enough to account for the destruction of his ship.

Or...

She is no longer corporeally "real." She is now like 6 is to Baltar, but for Lee. Frankly, the idea of Kara transcending the physical is, I think, the best explanation. We never see Kara on anyone else's dradis, we never hear CIC confirm Lee's contact, and of course, there's no transponder identifying Kara as a Galactica Viper. Also, from a story telling point of view, how could Kara return in the flesh with knowledge of Earth? If she was "real" then how could the narrative be extended and sustained with the mystery of Earth through all 22 episodes and beyond? Can't happen. Kara must be a phantom projection or imagination for Lee.

Come to think of it, she could be a Cylon and this last scenario still be the case.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by bstone 

She is no longer corporeally "real." She is now like 6 is to Baltar, but for Lee. Frankly, the idea of Kara transcending the physical is, I think, the best explanation.

I think that is the best guess. I am not so sure she is only going to be in Lee's head though, that would get kinda annoying.

Remember when she died the entity who looked like Leoben was trying to guide her "To the place between life and death" so I think that might be where she is right now making quick jumps in and out of it to guide the fleet. I just hope she isn't stuck in the Viper the rest of the series.

Regarding the final 5, they are very different physically from the others. None of them got sick in the nebula in the pilot episode like the other Cylons. Anders got really sick at the end of season 2. None of them can really go without sleep for long (like boomer). Saul is an Alcoholic.

Something also interesting is that Saul, Anders and the Chief were the LEADERS of the resistance movement on new caprica. It is almost like the final 5 are programmed to hate the other Cylons and protect humanity. Hmmm.

I also didn't like the episode where the chief found the temple of 5 by just wandering there for no reason. Now that we know he is a Cylon it makes more sense and I like that they did that in retrospect.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

I like the Zarac and Billy ideas, except Billy can't be in the Pegasis movie since it won't connect directly with Galactica.

In the interview posted above, RDM stated that the whole cast would be involved in the two one-hour Pegasus episodes, so in theory, Billy could be back.

R: Where do the plans stand for a direct-to-DVD movie that flashes back to tell more of the story of the Pegasus and Admiral Cain (Michelle Forbes)?

RM: It's really just a couple of extra episodes for the fourth season that will air earlier than the rest of the season, sometime in the fall. They'll come out on DVD the next day.

R: Which cast members are in these two, one-hour extra episodes?

RM: The whole cast.

[Eug]

^^^ Billy is no longer part of the cast.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by Eug 

^^^ Billy is no longer part of the cast.

Well, now he's not, but he was alive during the time of the Pegasus. What I meant is that he could show up as a guest star on the flashback episodes if they wished him to (not that I'm assigning importance to his presence, just pointing out that it's possible).

On an aside, I hope the podcast isn't late this week. I want insight.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

^^^ Billy is no longer part of the cast.

Yup. He wanted to leave the show to do other things so they will really have to do some sweet talking.

Anyway, when is this 2 hour DVD supposed to take place in the Pegasus timeline?

If the whole cast is in it then it must be right when they first met Pegasus but before they killed Cain.