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icruise · Dec 21, 2006, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Sony, apparently not understanding their problem, has announced a $2500 version of the PS3:

KUTARAGI PROMISES MORE EXPENSIVE PS3! - The Last Boss

Surely you know the difference between "announcing" a product and the ravings of "Crazy" Ken Kutaragi.

- - e r i k - - · Dec 21, 2006, 07:38 PM

Indeed. I think we need to see this gif again:

mdc · Dec 21, 2006, 07:41 PM

. . . and 2x HDMI to split sound and video output.

Is there such a difference between optical audio and HDMI audio? I have my xbox360, cable, ps2 all pushing optical audio out and it sounds pretty darn good to me.

What will be gained by using HDMI for audio?

jokell82 · Dec 21, 2006, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by mdc

Is there such a difference between optical audio and HDMI audio? I have my xbox360, cable, ps2 all pushing optical audio out and it sounds pretty darn good to me.

What will be gained by using HDMI for audio?

Nothing. It's all digital so there's absolutely no difference.

Eug Wanker · Dec 22, 2006, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by jokell82

Nothing. It's all digital so there's absolutely no difference.

Uh, it's a HUGE difference.

Optical SPDIF is limited to 1.5 Mbps, and does not support Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS HD Master Audio. These are all supported by HDMI.

That said, I don't care enough to actually buy a new receiver. Optical is good enough for me for the time being.

itai195 · Dec 22, 2006, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Fun Fact: When anybody other than, like, three people on this forum owns an HDTV, Nintendo can release compatibility then rather than wasting my money now.

You're kidding, right? Plenty of people own HDTVs, and I have a feeling that in the long run Nintendo's decision not to support HD is going to hurt.

Despite that I'm happy with the Wii because, like the GC and the N64, I only bought it to play Nintendo's games. I don't know if that's good enough for most people.

Chuckit · Dec 22, 2006, 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by itai195

You're kidding, right? Plenty of people own HDTVs, and I have a feeling that in the long run Nintendo's decision not to support HD is going to hurt.

It's relative. Lacking HD is a bad thing. Costing less than the Xbox is a good thing. I'm not sure getting rid of the bad thing is worth getting rid of the good thing. The vast majority of people, from what I can tell, don't own HDTVs, so it seems sensible right now not to prioritize them.

Dec 22, 2006, 07:17 AM

Thank ****ing jesus on a pogo stick that MS finally wised up that their measly 90 day warranty was a complete pisser. Hoping this is TRUE and considering PS3 and Wii are one year, it probably is...

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/microso...ear-223712.php

Put that extended warranty down! Do not buy that service plan, despite how convincing that slick Gamestop salesperson is! According to the NeoGAF forums, Microsoft will issue the above statement tomorrow, magically transforming your measly 90-day warranty into a powerful 365-day warranty. Let's hope this little Christmas bonus pans out.

jokell82 · Dec 22, 2006, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Uh, it's a HUGE difference.

Optical SPDIF is limited to 1.5 Mbps, and does not support Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, or DTS HD Master Audio. These are all supported by HDMI.

That said, I don't care enough to actually buy a new receiver. Optical is good enough for me for the time being.

That may be a limit of the S/PDIF standard, however the actual throughput of a TOSLINK connection is 125Mbps.

mdc · Dec 22, 2006, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by screamingFit

Thank ****ing jesus on a pogo stick that MS finally wised up that their measly 90 day warranty was a complete pisser. Hoping this is TRUE and considering PS3 and Wii are one year, it probably is...

Rumor: Xbox 360 Warranty Extended To 1 Year? - Kotaku

I really hope that is true because a while after my 90 days my console did the 3 red light thing of death. I freaked out, turned it off, and turned it back on, and haven't seen the red lights since then. The console works fine, but every time I turn it on I think that will be the power on that red lights it.

Dec 22, 2006, 04:31 PM

It's real:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/...tyextended.htm

From the link:

"Our number one priority for the Xbox 360 is customer satisfaction," said Jeff Bell, Corporate Vice President of Global Marketing for Microsoft's Interactive Entertainment Business.

More like, too many people were getting pissed off and class-action lawsuits were starting. I don't actually think they would of made this change otherwise. If customers were their number one priority, this would of been their warranty from day one.

Eug Wanker · Dec 22, 2006, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

That may be a limit of the S/PDIF standard, however the actual throughput of a TOSLINK connection is 125Mbps.

Irrelevant, since the only viable commercial implementation on consumer equipment is via SPDIF.

ie. On any receiver you can buy at Best Buy or whatever, Toslink = 1.5 Mbps max.

starman · Dec 22, 2006, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Indeed. I think we need to see this gif again:

Why? Not everyone has a poop fetish like you.

goMac · Dec 22, 2006, 09:35 PM

Just was out shopping for Wii controllers this afternoon for presents. The Wii was out everywhere, no one had them. Only Toys R Us had any controllers, and they were down to their last few. Today was a shipment day for the Wii too.

In contrast, Best Buy had large stacks of the PS3. They even moved a bunch to the front door to try to peddle to people as they came in the door. I was in the store for about 20 minutes and they had only sold two by the time I left, so the PS3's were definitely selling, but not like the Wii. I almost bought one but I realized they have no resale value anymore.

Eug Wanker · Dec 22, 2006, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Just was out shopping for Wii controllers this afternoon for presents. The Wii was out everywhere, no one had them. Only Toys R Us had any controllers, and they were down to their last few. Today was a shipment day for the Wii too.

In contrast, Best Buy had large stacks of the PS3. They even moved a bunch to the front door to try to peddle to people as they came in the door. I was in the store for about 20 minutes and they had only sold two by the time I left, so the PS3's were definitely selling, but not like the Wii. I almost bought one but I realized they have no resale value anymore.

2 PS3s in 20 minutes is pretty good.

goMac · Dec 22, 2006, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

2 PS3s in 20 minutes is pretty good.

It's not bad, but it's not as good as the Wii seems to be selling. The same Best Buy got a shipment of Wii's in today and they were already gone.

icruise · Dec 22, 2006, 10:59 PM

I don't think the PS3 or the Wii is sitting on shelves for any significant length of time. I've read a few articles talking about how the Wii is outselling the PS3. Well, that may be true, but they're both selling out as pretty much as soon as they get in stock. The sales figures at the moment are entirely constrained by production numbers. Nintendo has a lot more to stock available to sell. I've never seen either one on store shelves around here, and I've been looking.

goMac · Dec 22, 2006, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

I don't think the PS3 or the Wii is sitting on shelves for any significant length of time. I've read a few articles talking about how the Wii is outselling the PS3. Well, that may be true, but they're both selling out as pretty much as soon as they get in stock. The sales figures at the moment are entirely constrained by production numbers. Nintendo has a lot more to stock available to sell. I've never seen either one on store shelves around here, and I've been looking.

Well, I could have bought anyone here one today.

They were all just sitting there. Employees standing around trying to get people to take them in the middle of the afternoon.

icruise · Dec 22, 2006, 11:50 PM

Go back and see if they were still there the next day. Then it might mean something.

goMac · Dec 22, 2006, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

Go back and see if they were still there the next day. Then it might mean something.

Wii's sell out because of lines that form in the morning. That more than 30 PS3's were still available mid day, and the employees were having to push them on people at the front door is telling about the PS3's demand trend.

starman · Dec 22, 2006, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Wii's sell out because of lines that form in the morning. That more than 30 PS3's were still available mid day, and the employees were having to push them on people at the front door is telling about the PS3's demand trend.

No, it's anecdotal crap. Did people KNOW the PS3s were there? $600 isn't exactly an impulse buy.

goMac · Dec 22, 2006, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by starman

No, it's anecdotal crap. Did people KNOW the PS3s were there? $600 isn't exactly an impulse buy.

The only people that seemed to be buying them were impulse buyers. While people will go out and find the Wii, no one is interested in going out to find a PS3 it seems.

It's two days before Christmas. The store was probably the fullest it's ever been all year all day. If demand was as strong or stronger than the Wii those should have been sold out, like the Wii was.

starman · Dec 23, 2006, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

The only people that seemed to be buying them were impulse buyers. While people will go out and find the Wii, no one is interested in going out to find a PS3 it seems.

It's two days before Christmas. The store was probably the fullest it's ever been all year all day. If demand was as strong or stronger than the Wii those should have been sold out, like the Wii was.

And yet the stores in my area sell them out all the time. Your point?

icruise · Dec 23, 2006, 12:48 AM

A couple of weeks ago, when I was still looking for a PS3, I went around asking at many of the major retailers in my area. To my surprise, they all said that they hadn't gotten any PS3 shipments since launch. The only exception was Best Buy, who had one shipment of 30 or 40 that were gone immediately (I didn't ask Circuit City). Given this, I think it's kind of silly to say that people don't care enough about the PS3 to go looking for it. If my area is any indication, people have probably given up hope of finding one.

I do think that the price of the console is hurting it, though.

Gamoe · Dec 23, 2006, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

If demand was as strong or stronger than the Wii those should have been sold out, like the Wii was.

C'mon goMac, I'm a Nintendo/Wii fan as well, but this kind of talk just wreaks of fanboyishness! At this time, numbers mean little, since the demand is severely out pacing supply, as already mentioned. We'll see in a year or so how well both are really doing in the market. I hope the Wii wins, but there's no reason to talk it up now.

Instead, what does have me a bit upset is these new Wii-mote like patents Sony is trying to get, in addition to the motion detection. I have no problem with the PS3, but I do have a problem if they're going to try to steal Nintendo's innovation, especially after downplaying it and calling it a gimmick.

goMac · Dec 23, 2006, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

C'mon goMac, I'm a Nintendo/Wii fan as well, but this kind of talk just wreaks of fanboyishness! At this time, numbers mean little, since the demand is severely out pacing supply, as already mentioned. We'll see in a year or so how well both are really doing in the market. I hope the Wii wins, but there's no reason to talk it up now.

The entire point of my post is that there is supply for the PS3.

jokell82 · Dec 23, 2006, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

The entire point of my post is that there is supply for the PS3.

At your one Best Buy, which means exactly nothing. Woot.com had 80 of them the other day and they sold out in under a minute.

I think something that speaks much better to the demand of the new consoles is the price they're fetching on ebay. People are losing money on PS3 auctions now - with most of them closing right around retail price. Wii's still go for $100-$150 more than retail.

icruise · Dec 23, 2006, 10:09 AM

Again, though, it's dangerous to make assumptions based on data like that. The reason PS3s aren't selling for more on eBay is that there are so damn many of them. People saw what happened with the Xbox 360 last year and assumed that they would be able to make lots of money by eBaying PS3s. Some people even stupidly waited until just before Christmas to list them, since they thought there would be a big spike in their value.

There are only 2089 auctions listed under "Nintendo Wii" and the "systems" category. There are 9316 PS3s listed under "Playstation 3" and the "systems" category. And that's a lot less than it has been (it's too late to ship for Christmas now, so the number has dropped by quite a bit). So despite the fact that Wiis are much more commonly available in retail, there are nearly 5 times as many PS3s on eBay. I have no concrete data, but my guess is that last year at this time there weren't nearly as many Xbox 360s available on eBay, which is why they sold for more.

Mrjinglesusa · Dec 23, 2006, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by jokell82

At your one Best Buy, which means exactly nothing. Woot.com had 80 of them the other day and they sold out in under a minute.

I think something that speaks much better to the demand of the new consoles is the price they're fetching on ebay. People are losing money on PS3 auctions now - with most of them closing right around retail price. Wii's still go for $100-$150 more than retail.

More anecdotal evidence: Circuit City had them available in ONLINE yesterday. I kept checking back and they were there for at least an hour, in stock. This is the $699 deal (60 GB) with an extra controller and game. Several other stores had bundles available online for most of the day. Walmart still has bindles available today online. When demand was high, online stores sold out in under a minute.

People who really want a PS3 have one. Now, they need to start selling to casual gamers and people thinking of upgrading from PS2 to PS3. As I've said before, that $499/$599 price point is going to hurt sales to these groups of people (i.e. non-hardcore gamers).

icruise · Dec 23, 2006, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa

People who really want a PS3 have one. Now, they need to start selling to casual gamers and people thinking of upgrading from PS2 to PS3. As I've said before, that $499/$599 price point is going to hurt sales to these groups of people (i.e. non-hardcore gamers).

This is true, although I wouldn't go so far as to say that all hardcore gamers have already bought them -- far from it. Most people are waiting for some decent games to come out.

The point about price is a good one, though. Traditionally, game consoles have been in the $200-$300 range, and I think Sony is overestimating the appeal of the Blu-ray player for most people. I think Sony should have never come out with the 60GB model at all. The additional features it has are not required for playing games at all, but because it exists everyone thinks the 20GB model is for suckers (like the Xbox Core model) and they talk about how the price for the PS3 is $600. Of course, Sony loses more money on the 20GB model, so they want to encourage people to buy the 60GB model, but I think it's hurting them when people do price comparisons with the Xbox 360.

Gamoe · Dec 23, 2006, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

The entire point of my post is that there is supply for the PS3.

I know, but because some particular store or another doesn't sell out of them immediately doesn't mean there isn't high demand, or even that there isn't as much demand as there is for the Wii. The big picture remains the same. Besides there reasons other than waning demand that can account for some systems to actually remain on the shelves for a reasonable period of time, such as what icruise mentioned.

I want the Wii to win, but purely as a gaming system, from a gamer's perspective, I see nothing wrong with the PS3, and we Wii fans (heh) shouldn't underestimate the competition either. Like I said, I am much more concerned about Sony trying to get patents that they probably shouldn't have.

Chuckit · Dec 23, 2006, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Instead, what does have me a bit upset is these new Wii-mote like patents Sony is trying to get, in addition to the motion detection. I have no problem with the PS3, but I do have a problem if they're going to try to steal Nintendo's innovation, especially after downplaying it and calling it a gimmick.

Wouldn't the Wiimote be prior art?

Hawkeye_a · Dec 23, 2006, 01:52 PM

Gabriel...... Sony stealing Nintendo innovation is nothing new. It is my opinion that Sony sees itself primarily as a business, and in order to succeed it recognizes that it's primary mode of revenue can be established from creating a properietary format which it tries to position as market leader, thus ensuring royalties, etc over a long period of time.

It then coms as no surprise that it sees it's primary market as the "technophiles", hence in order to reach it's objective...it has bundled it's proprietary format(s) into multiple product lines (including the PS3), and since it couldnt possibly care less about gaming (from a gamer's perspective) it will always copy innovation from artists(such as those at Nintendo), increase the specifications marginally, and sell at a loss hoping to appeal to those who see what it has done as "innovation".

Microsoft did it to Apple with Windows..... Sony has been doing it to Nintendo with interactive entertainment. Apple is now the underdog cause of Microsoft's method of stealing innovation, upping the specs marginally and repackaging it. The same can be said of the "relationship" between Nintendo and Sony. And some people still seem to think Windows is better "value" than the "mac". the same with the Sony gaming consoles vs the Nintendo ones.

Sony is a business first. Nintendo is a games studio first. thats the difference.

icruise · Dec 23, 2006, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Sony is a business first. Nintendo is a games studio first. thats the difference.

You're fooling yourself if you think Nintendo isn't a business first and foremost. Same with Apple. All corporations exist to make money.

starman · Dec 23, 2006, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Sony is a business first. Nintendo is a games studio first. thats the difference.

HAHHHAH. Funniest thing I read all day.

EDIT: Nintendo is like Willy Wonka. Sure his stuff looks good, but inside the castle walls is a business.

You lose. Good day, sir.

goMac · Dec 23, 2006, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

I know, but because some particular store or another doesn't sell out of them immediately doesn't mean there isn't high demand, or even that there isn't as much demand as there is for the Wii. The big picture remains the same. Besides there reasons other than waning demand that can account for some systems to actually remain on the shelves for a reasonable period of time, such as what icruise mentioned.

Under normal circumstances, I'd agree. But, it was December 22nd, the busiest time of year at the store. The Wii shipment they got in that morning most likely sold out at opening. Meantime they still had plenty of PS3's around 3:00. On December 22nd, two days before Christmas.

Now don't get me wrong, they were selling. But traditionally when you get that close to Christmas, people will nearly kill each other to get to these big ticket items, Heck, when the PS3 launched you had riots in some places. But here you had Best Buy trying to push PS3's on people at the door after they'd probably been on the floor all day, and they just weren't getting very many sales. In comparison, the Wii was gone. They had no accessories, no games, no controllers. Just out of everything.

The excuse we've always heard is that the PS3 is behind in marketshare because there aren't enough units on the market. I'd agree with saying there is a unit shortage. But the pent up demand that we're supposed to be seeing just isn't happening. At this time of year they should be selling out everywhere right away. Instead, it seems that the fanboys got their units, but the general public isn't too interested in the PS3. Meantime everyone seems to be interested in the Wii.

If this wasn't Christmas time, it wouldn't be significant. But this is the busiest time of the year. Obviously people are out looking for the Wii, all the stores are out. Where are the people looking to buy the PS3?

starman · Dec 23, 2006, 04:52 PM

you're such a fanboy

goMac · Dec 23, 2006, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by starman

you're such a fanboy

I would have bought one if I thought I could get something decent reselling it (which is another sign either demand is getting low or supply is getting high).

Dark Helmet · Dec 23, 2006, 06:12 PM

goMac why are you so obsessed with the PS3 if Nintendo themselves said they are not competing against it and you have no intention of ever getting one? You somehow threatened by it?

MindFad · Dec 23, 2006, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

goMac why are you so obsessed with the PS3 if Nintendo themselves said they are not competing against it and you have no intention of ever getting one? You somehow threatened by it?

Just wanted to quote that.

Kenneth · Dec 23, 2006, 06:25 PM

I just bought a 60GB Playstation 3 from BestBuy. I didn't expect that at all and I was supposed to buy a up-converted DVD player since the lens of my old DVD player wore out.

exca1ibur · Dec 23, 2006, 06:46 PM

My buddy just tried to sell me a 60GB for $680... He still has it. Might pick up a 20GB next month though, but I sure as hell am not paying more than retail if I do.

goMac · Dec 23, 2006, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

goMac why are you so obsessed with the PS3 if Nintendo themselves said they are not competing against it and you have no intention of ever getting one? You somehow threatened by it?

I'm sorry, did you not read the thread topic?

Mrjinglesusa · Dec 23, 2006, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Kenneth

I just bought a 60GB Playstation 3 from BestBuy. I didn't expect that at all and I was supposed to buy a up-converted DVD player since the lens of my old DVD player wore out.

Again, the fact that 2 days before Christmas you can walk into Best Buy and pick one up just demonstrates the waning demand and the fact that the PS3 costs too much for the average consumer. This DID NOT HAPPEN with the 360. You could not find them anywhere until around March/April, and even then they lasted maybe 30 minutes.

With respect to the price, I think kids are having a VERY hard time convincing their parents to buy them a $499 or $599 gaming console. Sony has effectively self-limited their market base with the price of these things. They tried to pack too much into them for the price point.

Chuckit · Dec 23, 2006, 08:33 PM

Poor PS3.

icruise · Dec 23, 2006, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa

Again, the fact that 2 days before Christmas you can walk into Best Buy and pick one up just demonstrates the waning demand and the fact that the PS3 costs too much for the average consumer. This DID NOT HAPPEN with the 360. You could not find them anywhere until around March/April, and even then they lasted maybe 30 minutes.

Honestly people, you cannot just walk into Best Buy and get a PS3! Unless you are lucky and get there just after a shipment arrives, that is.

Kenneth · Dec 23, 2006, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

Honestly people, you cannot just walk into Best Buy and get a PS3! Unless you are lucky and get there just after a shipment arrives, that is.

I agree. I was surprised to see 15, 20 units of PS3 sitting on the entrance and they were all 60GB model with a $599 price tag (8.8% local sales tax). It was about 11am. I paused and started thinking, my mom was standing to me. She wasn't happy when I told her that I'm going to get one. While waiting, I saw some kids in the 20s started to call up their friends.

When I left the store at around 11:40am, there were no more than 5 units left. Even the cashier asked me is the PS3 still there.

I think the Xbox 360 is another story. In 2005, we had the Sony PS2 and Nintendo GameCube.

Meanwhile, I also have a Xbox 360 and Wii. Boy! 8 months ago, I was a no gamer! It changed after I won the Xbox 360 from a local website in April '06.

gradient · Dec 23, 2006, 09:20 PM

I just bought a 360 - I hadn't been able to find a single retailer in my city that has PS3's in stock since launch so I went the other way. I didn't really need to spend the extra $$ anyway.

Chuckit · Dec 24, 2006, 12:41 AM

By the by, I haven't seen a single PS3 in my Christmas shopping today. Thinking possibly Colin lives in Nintendoton or something.

Mrjinglesusa · Dec 24, 2006, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

By the by, I haven't seen a single PS3 in my Christmas shopping today. Thinking possibly Colin lives in Nintendoton or something.

I agree - they are not readily available. It is all anecdotal evidence. I check PS3 availability using this link:

http://www.xpbargains.com/ps3_locator.php

Yesterday, Circuit City had the 60 GB in stock for over an hour. Even now, you can get bundles from Wal Mart if you want to pay for a bundle. When I used these trackers a year ago to find 360, when somewhere showed in stock, it lasted 15 minutes at most. Anecdotal, I know, but that's what I have observed.

I'll reiterate: the PS3 may be a great consumer electronics device, but the price point is going to turn off a lot of potential buyers.