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ThinkInsane · Jan 17, 2009, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by voodoo

Whoa the episode just started automatic torrent download, but I managed to stop it and delete it before I had wasted bandwidth on it.

Not when I have you guys to tell me all about what's going on. So, anything happen or just the usual nothing?

Here' the run down:

Earth is indeed trashed. Nuked 2000 years back. People take this news hard and get all depressed.

They find human skeletons mixed in with chunks of centurion (but not the centurions we are used to). The assumption is that the machines turned against their masters. This theory proves incorrect as all the human skeletons they find are all from skinjobs. The thirteenth tribe is called Cylon.

Dee has a nice date with Apollo which leaves her walking on air, smiling from ear to ear. She walks into her quarters, tells Geata how happy she is, pulls out a pistol and blows her brains against the wall.

The four start having memories of their time on earth. They were there when the bombs went off. Chief shows Anders the scorch mark on the wall that used to be him.

Starbuck finds her own body in a crashed viper, all burned up but with the blonde hair still intact and unburnt. Leoben gets weird about it, and runs away like a girl when Starbuck mentions "oh, the hybrid mentioned I was the harbinger of death and I'll lead you all to your end". She burns the body some more. Whether the hair burned this time was not made clear.

Adama gets hammered and tries to goad Tigh into shooting him. Tigh declines (after serious consideration).

A serious funk has fallen on the fleet, leaving the corridors of Galactica looking like the alley next to a methadone clinic complete with "frak earth" graffiti on the walls and earth junkies curled up in the corners jonesing and looking generally morose.

Tigh wades out into the ocean and remembers the attack. In the memory he finds Ellen all banged up. She tells him "everything is set, we'll be together again" and the whole joint gets wiped out in a blinding flash. Ellen is the fifth.

Adama pulls it together and gives a pep talk to the fleet.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jan 17, 2009, 12:40 PM

Hey I was dead right when I guessed last year that starbuck would find her viper and body on Earth and try to hide the evidence.

I don't get how leoben was walking up to the wreckage with her telling her that she might not like what she finds and then when he actually saw the corpse he got scared and ran for the hills, what was he expecting?!

analogue SPRINKLES · Jan 17, 2009, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

The thirteenth tribe is called Cylon.

Starbuck finds her own body in a crashed viper, all burned up but with the blonde hair still intact and unburnt.

I need to watch it again but was the 13th tribe called Cylon or did they just say they were all Cylons?

Also starbucks rotten corpse could have been just decaying rather than burnt that's why the hair looked ok.

It is strange how they just happened to set down right where at least 3-4 of the final 5 died though.

ThinkInsane · Jan 17, 2009, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

I need to watch it again but was the 13th tribe called Cylon or did they just say they were all Cylons?

Also starbucks rotten corpse could have been just decaying rather than burnt that's why the hair looked ok.

It is strange how they just happened to set down right where at least 3-4 of the final 5 died though.

Nope. Definitely burned up. Everything was charred black. The viper, the helmet, the face. Burnt burnt burnt.

Ron Moore said in the podcast that the final five don't resurrect like the other seven, which I took at the time to mean they don't resurrect at all. Obviously that can't be the case, as we now know the final five did resurrect in some manner. Are they literally reborn? Reincarnated into new baby bodies or some such? I don't know if they are going to wrap this up in any kind of satisfactory way in in 9 episodes.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jan 17, 2009, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

Nope. Definitely burned up. Everything was charred black. The viper, the helmet, the face. Burnt burnt burnt.

Ron Moore said in the podcast that the final five don't resurrect like the other seven, which I took at the time to mean they don't resurrect at all. Obviously that can't be the case, as we now know the final five did resurrect in some manner. Are they literally reborn? Reincarnated into new baby bodies or some such? I don't know if they are going to wrap this up in any kind of satisfactory way in in 9 episodes.

Remember when they found ellen in Season 1 she had been missing for 21 days and then suddenly turned up. It also seemed in their past lives they were at about the same age they are now which is rather strange, Adama also remembers tye looking young at some point. Question also is did they just come back in the last 60-30 years or have they been coming and going for 2000 years.

In regards to earth does that make us Cylons and the war is going to happen here or are we the result of perhaps thousands of years after BSG got there.

ThinkInsane · Jan 17, 2009, 01:33 PM

And what's with the KFC "Frak Pack"? Is this replacing their less popular "**** Bucket" promotion?

Chuckit · Jan 17, 2009, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

I need to watch it again but was the 13th tribe called Cylon or did they just say they were all Cylons?

As best I could hear, the wording was, "The 13th tribe was Cylon." So it technically could be referring to their race or the name of the tribe — but I think it's the latter from the odd phrasing. They rarely say "___ was Cylon."

goMac · Jan 17, 2009, 03:03 PM

Would this have mean Baltar had known the entire time? He tested her in season 1...

goMac · Jan 17, 2009, 03:06 PM

Also, another thing occurred to me...

The scroll of Pythia talks about the path to Earth, but it's always been a mystery of how it got back to the colonies. Is it possible that the human fleet followed the Cylons to Earth 2000 years ago and nuked the planet? Much like how the humans are being followed now?

analogue SPRINKLES · Jan 17, 2009, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Would this have mean Baltar had known the entire time? He tested her in season 1...

I was wondering the same thing but I get the feeling they would pass as human or they would have had a hard time at the dr for the past 40 years.

SpaceMonkey · Jan 17, 2009, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

In regards to earth does that make us Cylons and the war is going to happen here or are we the result of perhaps thousands of years after BSG got there.

Given the previous discussion on NYC landmarks I'm pretty sure BSG takes place in our distant future.

SpaceMonkey · Jan 17, 2009, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

As best I could hear, the wording was, "The 13th tribe was Cylon." So it technically could be referring to their race or the name of the tribe — but I think it's the latter from the odd phrasing. They rarely say "___ was Cylon."

"Cylon" is used on the show as an adjective all the time ("Cylon raider," etc.), so I honestly never gave any thought to the remark meaning anything other than their race.

goMac · Jan 17, 2009, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

I was wondering the same thing but I get the feeling they would pass as human or they would have had a hard time at the dr for the past 40 years.

Sure but... (I'm putting this in tags because it might be a giveaway to those who haven't seen the episode)

The doctors on Caprica didn't have Cylon tests.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jan 17, 2009, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Sure but... (I'm putting this in tags because it might be a giveaway to those who haven't seen the episode)

The doctors on Caprica didn't have Cylon tests.

They would see it was synthetic.

jokell82 · Jan 17, 2009, 05:21 PM

If anyone wants some BSG props, they're auctioning off what looks like everything from the show right now:
http://www.auctionnetwork.com/

I think it's pretty hilarious how there is absolutely no one there bidding.

Chuckit · Jan 17, 2009, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

"Cylon" is used on the show as an adjective all the time ("Cylon raider," etc.), so I honestly never gave any thought to the remark meaning anything other than their race.

It's used as a modifier before the names of the Cylons' things, but when they're talking about people, they never say (for example), "Boomer and Six are Cylon." They use the noun and say "Boomer and Six are Cylons." That's why I took it as a name.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

They would see it was synthetic.

I thought it was established in the first season that it takes some pretty special testing to reveal the differences. That's why Baltar built his special Cylon detector.

goMac · Jan 17, 2009, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

They would see it was synthetic.

Right, but no one ever did. The other 4 likely had regular health checkups, and they were never found out. It's obviously not something you can find unless you're specifically looking for it, as Baltar was.

SpaceMonkey · Jan 17, 2009, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

It's used as a modifier before the names of the Cylons' things, but when they're talking about people, they never say (for example), "Boomer and Six are Cylon." They use the noun and say "Boomer and Six are Cylons." That's why I took it as a name.

Right, but "tribe" is a singular, common noun. For me, it's like saying something like "the house was blue," which would not lead most people to assume that the house is named Blue.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jan 17, 2009, 07:51 PM

I kinda get the feeling that Baltar and Starbuck are the same type of entity. Perhaps Baltar died in the MiniSeries during the nuclear blast and came back without knowing it just like starbuck did.

Don Pickett · Jan 17, 2009, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Right, but no one ever did. The other 4 likely had regular health checkups, and they were never found out. It's obviously not something you can find unless you're specifically looking for it, as Baltar was.

The nature of the final five hasn't been revealed. It could be that the final five are simply humans with some specific mutation or mutations. They don't seem to have the skinjob's increased strength or other modifications.

starman · Jan 17, 2009, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Don Pickett

The nature of the final five hasn't been revealed. It could be that the final five are simply humans with some specific mutation or mutations. They don't seem to have the skinjob's increased strength or other modifications.

Tori bitchslapped Cally pretty hard.

Chuckit · Jan 17, 2009, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by Don Pickett

The nature of the final five hasn't been revealed. It could be that the final five are simply humans with some specific mutation or mutations. They don't seem to have the skinjob's increased strength or other modifications.

The nature of skinjobs in general keeps changing as the series goes on. Like, at first it was pretty obvious Six didn't mind dying at all (two of them died in the first part of the mini and seemed pretty cheery about it), but when they needed to humanize the Cylons later on, all of a sudden they really hate death even though it's actually just teleportation. And at some point, Athena had a thing in her arm that could interface with Galactica's computer. And originally the Cylons seemed to have a lot less individual free will, like poor Boomer who couldn't stop herself from trying to kill her friends.

ThinkInsane · Jan 17, 2009, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Don Pickett

The nature of the final five hasn't been revealed. It could be that the final five are simply humans with some specific mutation or mutations. They don't seem to have the skinjob's increased strength or other modifications.

Don't forget, Tori backhanded Cally half way down the launch tube, so I do think they have the super strength. They just haven't had cause to use it since they became "active".

ThinkInsane · Jan 17, 2009, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

As best I could hear, the wording was, "The 13th tribe was Cylon." So it technically could be referring to their race or the name of the tribe — but I think it's the latter from the odd phrasing. They rarely say "___ was Cylon."

I actually meant to type "The thirteenth tribe is Cylon", not is called Cylon. I meant to address that in an earlier post, but then got distracted by the Frak Pack (had the episode playing while typing and the commercial was on) at KFC

goMac · Jan 17, 2009, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Don Pickett

The nature of the final five hasn't been revealed. It could be that the final five are simply humans with some specific mutation or mutations. They don't seem to have the skinjob's increased strength or other modifications.

(I'm stopping with the spoiler tags in since if you haven't seen it by now... well...)

Right, but we already know the Cylon test can be applied to the final five from this episode. Baltar ran his Cylon test on their remains on Earth and it came back positive.

We also already know that the final five process the same attributes such as super strength from when the President's aid killed Calley last season.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jan 17, 2009, 10:27 PM

It seems the tin cans on earth's design was influenced by the concept art of cylons from the series that never got the greenlight.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jan 18, 2009, 03:27 PM

Remember how Ellen showed up originally in season 1? They just found her after a couple of weeks on one of the ships and she has no real memory on where she was in that time? Perhaps she made some sort of starbuck comeback then too.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jan 18, 2009, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

The nature of skinjobs in general keeps changing as the series goes on. Like, at first it was pretty obvious Six didn't mind dying at all (two of them died in the first part of the mini and seemed pretty cheery about it), but when they needed to humanize the Cylons later on, all of a sudden they really hate death even though it's actually just teleportation

I don't think that they didn't mind it is just they hadn't done it much or at all in the beginning. They mentioned each time they did it though it got more and more painful and sometimes the process of death was painful both physically and physiologically.

It wasn't till new Caprica that they were getting offed regularly.

MRTrauffer · Jan 18, 2009, 03:59 PM

I'm thinking that Ellen and Starbuck are connected somehow.

design219 · Jan 18, 2009, 04:17 PM

I noticed that Starbuck said "help me God dammit" instead of "Gods dammit" like most humans when she was trying to turn the wreckage over. Only Cylons believe in one god.

Cold Warrior · Jan 18, 2009, 04:46 PM

I heard her say 'gods' plural

goMac · Jan 18, 2009, 04:58 PM

Here's a new plot hole in the series...

Baltar tested Ellen
Baltar should know she's a Cylon
Baltar becomes obsessed with finding the final five
But Balter conveniently forgets that Ellen was one of them?

Chuckit · Jan 18, 2009, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by design219

I noticed that Starbuck said "help me God dammit" instead of "Gods dammit" like most humans when she was trying to turn the wreckage over. Only Cylons believe in one god.

Pretty sure she said "Gods dammit," but slurred it a bit. I remember thinking at that part, "Oh yeah, they're polytheistic. I forgot."

jokell82 · Jan 18, 2009, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Here's a new plot hole in the series...

Baltar tested Ellen
Baltar should know she's a Cylon
Baltar becomes obsessed with finding the final five
But Balter conveniently forgets that Ellen was one of them?

Final five are different from the other skinjobs and don't come up positive for the test Baltar came up with. Plot hole invalidated.

design219 · Jan 18, 2009, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

Final five are different from the other skinjobs and don't come up positive for the test Baltar came up with.

Yeah, I suspect it will turn out EVERYONE is really a cylon like the final five. Just that they were somehow resurrected and taken to Caprica. I hope not. That would suck.

jokell82 · Jan 18, 2009, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by design219

Yeah, I suspect it will turn out EVERYONE is really a cylon like the final five. Just that they were somehow resurrected and taken to Caprica. I hope not. That would suck.

It also wouldn't make any sense, and would cheapen the entire struggle the humans have gone through. I highly doubt that is going to happen.

goMac · Jan 18, 2009, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

Final five are different from the other skinjobs and don't come up positive for the test Baltar came up with. Plot hole invalidated.

Except Baltar ran his tests again in the last episode and they came up positive.

Problem not solved.

Chuckit · Jan 18, 2009, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Except Baltar ran his tests again in the last episode and they came up positive.

Problem not solved.

Actually, we don't know how they figured out the remains were from Cylons. They didn't say it was the same test Baltar used in Season 1. For all we know, it could be a completely different test that their new Cylon allies told them about.

goMac · Jan 18, 2009, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Actually, we don't know how they figured out the remains were from Cylons. They didn't say it was the same test Baltar used in Season 1. For all we know, it could be a completely different test that their new Cylon allies told them about.

I'm pretty sure it was Baltar's test. The Cylons indicated they ran their own tests, so Baltar wasn't working with the Cylons. That pretty much just leaves his Cylon test.

I'm sure that they'll try to retcon something or make up some stupid excuse, but I just hate it when a series does something like this...

analogue SPRINKLES · Jan 18, 2009, 07:30 PM

Loooong interview with Rom about the latest episode.

So it turns out that when Diana said "sorry" to one of the final five in the opera house she was talking to ellen.
I have to wonder how she new she was dead to begin with.

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune....alla-dee-.html

analogue SPRINKLES · Jan 18, 2009, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I'm pretty sure it was Baltar's test. The Cylons indicated they ran their own tests, so Baltar wasn't working with the Cylons. That pretty much just leaves his Cylon test.

I'm sure that they'll try to retcon something or make up some stupid excuse, but I just hate it when a series does something like this...

Watch it again. Six clearly says "We ran tests using our protocols".

Problem solved.

starman · Jan 18, 2009, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by design219

I noticed that Starbuck said "help me God dammit" instead of "Gods dammit" like most humans when she was trying to turn the wreckage over. Only Cylons believe in one god.

Checked TiVo. Plural.

design219 · Jan 18, 2009, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Checked TiVo. Plural.

Thanks

goMac · Jan 18, 2009, 08:00 PM

Interesting note from the BSG wiki:
"Several clues point to Earth as the true homeworld of humanity. As the Fleet approaches Earth, the artifacts they encounter become more ancient. The ruins on Kobol are 2,000 years old, the Lion's Head nebula beacon is 3,000 years old, and the Temple of Five is dated to 4,000 years."

Buckaroo · Jan 18, 2009, 08:36 PM

They are going to bid off the damaged wooden sailing ship soon.

Buckaroo · Jan 18, 2009, 08:37 PM

Damn, I think they just sold it for $4000.

jokell82 · Jan 18, 2009, 09:12 PM

Wow - the BSG emblem sold for $8750!

goMac · Jan 18, 2009, 11:26 PM

I was looking at those ship models they used in the war room. But I was not aware that they basically look like duct tape wrapped over cardboard.

Somewhat disappointing.

(Edit: And the aren't auctioning off the Pegasus one)

Gankdawg · Jan 18, 2009, 11:34 PM

I'm glad that the series is over this season. I've enjoyed it, but I have no patience. Tell me the answers already!

Don Pickett · Jan 19, 2009, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

Don't forget, Tori backhanded Cally half way down the launch tube, so I do think they have the super strength. They just haven't had cause to use it since they became "active".

But none of the others have shown this, so it's not necessarily something they all have. Tigh, certainly, hasn't shown any super abilities other than drinking.