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Eugene · 02:12 AM

While it's true iDVD has this limitation, the Finder burning software should not. I can easily burn DVD-RW on my Dual 1 GHz G4 with a DVR-104. In fact, despite the lack of official support, Disk Utility even mentions "DVD-RW" under the Erase tab.

Has anybody just tried putting a DVD-RW in the drive and using the Finder??? If not, I'll go to the Palo Alto Apple Store myself and try myself since I own a few DVD-RW discs.

hifi · Nov 20, 2002, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by Eugene:
While it's true iDVD has this limitation, the Finder burning software should not. I can easily burn DVD-RW on my Dual 1 GHz G4 with a DVR-104. In fact, despite the lack of official support, Disk Utility even mentions "DVD-RW" on it's under the Erase tab.

Has anybody just tried putting a DVD-RW in the drive and using the Finder??? If not, I'll go to the Palo Alto Apple Store myself and try myself sine I own a few DVD-RW discs.

The Pioneer DVR-104 and the HLDS GCA-4020b (the other shipping superdrive) both support DVD-RW's in DiskCopy and the Finder. While it may not be officially noted under the drive specifications on Apples pages, the drives do support DVD-RW. The UJ-815 does not, and should eject the disc regardless of what program you are trying to use.

Eug · Nov 20, 2002, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by hifi:

The Pioneer DVR-104 and the HLDS GCA-4020b (the other shipping superdrive) both support DVD-RW's in DiskCopy and the Finder. While it may not be officially noted under the drive specifications on Apples pages, the drives do support DVD-RW. The UJ-815 does not, and should eject the disc regardless of what program you are trying to use.

Hmmmm... Well, that's a bit disappointing about the UJ-815. I can only hope DVD-RW will be supported at some point. Ditto for DVD-RAM (assuming that it isn't). It would be a shame to see a SuperDrive with no rewritable support at all.

As for the desktop SuperDrive, I knew that LG/Hitachi were supplying the drives to Apple, but I hadn't realized they were already shipping. The 4020b is a DVD-Multi drive as well. I wonder if Apple has firmwared-out the DVD-RAM support in those too.

mrtew · Nov 20, 2002, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by hifi:
The UJ-815 does not, and should eject the disc regardless of what program you are trying to use.

Yup, mine ejects the DVD-RAM disc without saying a word! So there's no chance this will change with updates or anything? Anyone wanna buy my disc? :-]

Eug · Nov 21, 2002, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by mrtew:

Yup, mine ejects the DVD-RAM disc without saying a word! So there's no chance this will change with updates or anything? Anyone wanna buy my disc? :-]

Yeah, I was a little surprised when you ran out and bought a disc without verification it worked. I hope my enthusiasm didn't cloud your judgement.

Anyways, I'd buy it if you weren't in Michigan.

mrtew · Nov 21, 2002, 12:45 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
Anyways, I'd buy it if you weren't in Michigan.

Yeah, I understand.... no one likes someone from Michigan. I guess I couldn't interest you in four 256mb RAM chips either? Will ship out of state! :-]

Eugene · Nov 21, 2002, 02:14 AM

Ah woops, missed your later posts, hifi...

Well that stinks if Apple really is crippling the drives. I burn a lot of DVD-RWs with my Pioneer.

Eug · Nov 23, 2002, 12:38 AM

Originally posted by roverone:
I received my SDPB about two hours ago -- it does have the uj-815 drive -- first thing I did was put in a blank DVD-RAM. It spun up, but was ejected. Updated to 10.2.2, same results. I might be able to test later in the day with a disk that already has data on it...

Were you ever able to test one with data on it?

Even if Apple has removed DVD-RAM write capability in the firmware, I suppose DVD-RAM read capability (if present) would be better than nothing.

workerbee · Nov 23, 2002, 04:47 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
Were you ever able to test one with data on it?

Even if Apple has removed DVD-RAM write capability in the firmware, I suppose DVD-RAM read capability (if present) would be better than nothing.

This was in Xlr8yourmac today:

More info on Matsushita UJ-815 (Slotted Superdrive model in PB G4) - (from a reader email in reply to a recent news item from a PB G4 1GHz drive owner noting he could not use DVD-RW media in the slotted Superdrive)

" Mike,
Just wanted to mention that ZDNet Japan had a feature on the CEATEC Japan 2002 Technology trade show and, in the article, the Panasonic/Matsushita UJ-815 was mentioned (along with its tray-load cousin, the UJ-810). It's a DVD-Multi drive and the specs read:

� CD-R write 16x
� CD-RW write 4x
� CD-ROM read 24x
� DVD-R write 2x
� DVD-RW write 1x
� DVD-RAM write 2x
� DVD-ROM read 8x

I found the info about halfway through the article at this link: http://www.zdnet.co.jp/news/0210/03/nj00_pdvd.html.
(Note: It's in Japanese, but there's a photo of the bare drive.)
Sincerely,
Derrick A. Yamaura"

Eug · Nov 23, 2002, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by workerbee:
This was in Xlr8yourmac today:

More info on Matsushita UJ-815 (Slotted Superdrive model in PB G4) - (from a reader email in reply to a recent news item from a PB G4 1GHz drive owner noting he could not use DVD-RW media in the slotted Superdrive)

" Mike,
Just wanted to mention that ZDNet Japan had a feature on the CEATEC Japan 2002 Technology trade show and, in the article, the Panasonic/Matsushita UJ-815 was mentioned (along with its tray-load cousin, the UJ-810). It's a DVD-Multi drive and the specs read:

� CD-R write 16x
� CD-RW write 4x
� CD-ROM read 24x
� DVD-R write 2x
� DVD-RW write 1x
� DVD-RAM write 2x
� DVD-ROM read 8x

I found the info about halfway through the article at this link: http://www.zdnet.co.jp/news/0210/03/nj00_pdvd.html.
(Note: It's in Japanese, but there's a photo of the bare drive.)
Sincerely,
Derrick A. Yamaura"

Thanks, but I've already linked that page earlier in this thread. (Your link has an extra period by the way.)

Also, as far as we can gather (from Icruise's translation), is that the speeds listed may not actually refer to the UJ-815. They may in fact refer to the Panasonic LF-D521, which is a desktop drive. The UJ-815 IS a DVD-Multi drive however, and thus should support DVD-RAM, DVD-RW, and DVD-R. The problem is, however, Apple MAY have limited is functionality in the firmware.

One wonders if a firmware flash in the future will bring back some of the functionality.

TonTaub · 08:42 PM

Originally posted by Eug:

One wonders if a firmware flash in the future will bring back some of the functionality.

So - AFAIK this (userinstallable firmware upgrades) has happened in the past, hasn't it?

So there's hope?
What may be the reason for such a limitation? OS X not really ready for that?

Just a thought.
Michael.

all2ofme · Nov 23, 2002, 03:02 PM

Uhhhhhh. I'm still not sure (despite all the links that people have provided) what functionality a DVD-R (assuming that that is all this drive is) provides.

Does it allow backups of a great stack of info through the Finder's drag and drop interface the way CDR/RWs do with the previous combo drives? If not - does it allow this with something such as Toast?

The only thing that I'm SURE it provides is the ability to burn video discs for use in DVD players.

For someone who wants to back up lots (and reasonably frequently at that), would the standard combo drive be money sensibly saved?

Eug · Nov 23, 2002, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by all2ofme:
Uhhhhhh. I'm still not sure (despite all the links that people have provided) what functionality a DVD-R (assuming that that is all this drive is) provides.

Does it allow backups of a great stack of info through the Finder's drag and drop interface the way CDR/RWs do with the previous combo drives? If not - does it allow this with something such as Toast?

The only thing that I'm SURE it provides is the ability to burn video discs for use in DVD players.

For someone who wants to back up lots (and reasonably frequently at that), would the standard combo drive be money sensibly saved?

Just think of a DVD-R as a great big CD-R. Great for data applications. And just like how a VCD (a video CD) can be played in a VCD player, a DVD-Video can be played in a DVD player.

DVD-Rs can be burned from the Finder for data purposes. 4.37 GB of data backup goodness.

all2ofme · Nov 23, 2002, 04:26 PM

Thanks, Eug.

Is this true even as the drive stands now, then (I realise you're still waiting for yours for verification of this sort of thing)?

If so, then this will be another example of these boards convincing me to spend more money

I can understand that DVD-RAM support will be great if it does eventuate, but at least now I can weigh up the pros and cons of burning that much data in a sitting.

Almost time for a trip to the US to pick up a new laptop then. Deliberations beginning!

Eug · Nov 24, 2002, 11:44 AM

Yes, as it stands now, DVD-R would be a great write-once format for data backup. DVD-R is already supported by Toast with that drive according to some users.

By the way, does everyone have the DOC4 (?) revision of the firmware of that drive?

gg1234 · Nov 24, 2002, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Eug:

By the way, does everyone have the DOC4 (?) revision of the firmware of that drive?

Yes.

Eug · Nov 25, 2002, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by gg1234:
Yes.

OK I'm assuming here that you're talking about your own machine only. Just wondering.

gg1234 · Nov 25, 2002, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
OK I'm assuming here that you're talking about your own machine only. Just wondering.

Yes.

I wouldn't really know about anyone elses...

hifi · Nov 25, 2002, 03:32 PM

Everyone should have D0C4.

roverone · Nov 26, 2002, 01:43 AM

I'm sorry it has taken so long to post again, but I wanted everyone to know that I was not successful at reading an already-written-to HFS+ formatted DVD-RAM.

The behaviour was identical to that of a totally blank disk. Spin-up and then eject.

Sorry. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong, but I don't know what it would be.

Although I am hopeful that a system update or something will fix this, it seems unusual that Apple would not have mentioned this ahead of time, since people clearly would be making buying decisions based on the drive's capabilities.

robert

Eug · Nov 26, 2002, 02:06 AM

Originally posted by roverone:
I'm sorry it has taken so long to post again, but I wanted everyone to know that I was not successful at reading an already-written-to HFS+ formatted DVD-RAM.

The behaviour was identical to that of a totally blank disk. Spin-up and then eject.

Sorry. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong, but I don't know what it would be.

Although I am hopeful that a system update or something will fix this, it seems unusual that Apple would not have mentioned this ahead of time, since people clearly would be making buying decisions based on the drive's capabilities.

robert

I really hope Apple chooses to support one of the DVD rewritable formats with this drive, or a lot of users will be very annoyed, when they find out their GigaBook SuperDrive does not work like PowerMac SuperDrives.

So I wonder who will be the brave and industrious soul who will be able to find a generic Panasonic firmware and make a firmware flash utility to flash Panasonic <--> Apple firmwares (both directions).

(I wonder if a generic Panasonic firmware would work. Hmmm...

)

It's no surprise I guess why Panasonic refused to tell me what formats this drive supported. "Call Apple" they said.

Paul Guyot · Nov 26, 2002, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by roverone:
Although I am hopeful that a system update or something will fix this, it seems unusual that Apple would not have mentioned this ahead of time, since people clearly would be making buying decisions based on the drive's capabilities.

I've bought the SD model for backups purposes and I was very upset to see that it wouldn't eat one of the three DVD-RW I bought for that purpose. (I didn't open the other ones to be able to send them back to the shop).

So I called AppleCare about it since I thought it was a problem of my PowerBook (I read this thread much later). Apple's web page on the superdrive http://www.apple.com/hardware/superdrive/ is a lie for two reasons: the Ti doesn't burn that fast (I don't care that much and this seems to be a physical limitation) and it doesn't handle DVD-RW (I really care, I'm not sure I would have taken the SD model if I knew). I was ready to send them a letter about that illegal fact (at least in France).

But, the guy from AppleCare (Philippe) called back. And he said that there is a planned System (firmware) update to fix that very problem and it should be released within the end of the year. The thing is that he had less information than me on the subject (he asked me to check that I hadn't a Pioneer), so I'm not fully positive about that.

Paul

Wisner · Nov 28, 2002, 05:58 PM

You're all missing the important question: will this mechanism fit into an earlier-vintage TiBook?

Eug · Nov 28, 2002, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by Wisner:
You're all missing the important question: will this mechanism fit into an earlier-vintage TiBook?

Welcome to MacNN.

Somebody has said that it should be possible with the 667/800 DVI PowerBooks, but not with earlier TiBooks because of differences in design.

Eug · Dec 7, 2002, 01:25 AM

So, I have the UJ-815 with D0C4 firmware.

I tried some DVD-RAM with this drive. No luck.

HFS+ formatted DVD-RAM. Spit it out.
FAT32 formatted DVD-RAM. Spit it out.
UDF1.5 formatted DVD-RAM. Spit it out.

All of these discs work with the windtunnel TiBook using an external Firewire DVD-RAM/-R drive.

I am disappointed.

Please Apple, give us rewritable support, preferably DVD-RAM, but DVD-RW would do.

DVD Plaza · Dec 7, 2002, 01:40 AM

I'm in the same boat as others - got the SD model for backup purposes (my work doesn't fit on CDs anymore).

But wasting a DVD-R every time I want to backup my work is hardly smart, my plan was to (as I do with CDs on my 800DVI) have 10 RW discs that I cycle between and erase/burn my data to.

Eug · Dec 8, 2002, 12:40 PM

P.S. The driver version is 1.4.8 in OS 9.2.

Eug · Dec 11, 2002, 08:39 PM

Well, this is interesting.

The original G4 Titanium PowerBook reads (but doesn't write to) DVD-RAM, and it's even highlighted in their product literature.

So maybe there's hope after all that Apple will have a DVD-RAM capable firmware in the future for their GigaBooks. Then again maybe not.

jia_zhuang · Dec 12, 2002, 10:52 AM

So whats going to happen? Is apple going to bring out a firmware update? Is this drive capable of supporting DVD-RAM and DVD-RW since the OEM drive is a DVD Multi? Is this the same drive that was mentioned on the japanese ZDnet artical? If it is surely all we have to do is wait for apple to make a move. If it isn't the same drive then we are gonna be buggered.

Over Achiever · Dec 12, 2002, 05:03 PM

DVD-RAM burning...have ya'll tried it with Toast Ti 5.2 yet?

This is a travesty...DVD-RW and DVD-RAM support is the only thing keeping me from having the best laptop computer...

Eug · Dec 12, 2002, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by Over Achiever:
DVD-RAM burning...have ya'll tried it with Toast Ti 5.2 yet?

This is a travesty...DVD-RW and DVD-RAM support is the only thing keeping me from having the best laptop computer...

I don't have Toast 5.2.

Anyways, you should not need Toast to burn to DVD-RAM, since the Mac OS X already has built-in support for drag and drop burning with DVD-RAM capable drives (assuming OS X properly recognizes the drive as DVD-RAM capable).

I wouldn't to do too much DVD-RAM burning with Toast anyway, since Toast burns DVD-RAM as a read-only disc AFAIK which kinda defeats the point, unless you're just making a test DVD-video disc. (My DVD player will play back DVD-RAM-based DVD-video.)

People have suggested that the reason there is no support for DVD-RAM with this drive is because either:

1) Apple has removed support in the drive firmware
2) There are no proper OS X drivers.

Eug · 02:20 AM

Just tried DVD-RAM. Does not work in X.2.3 with the PowerBook SuperDrive.

By the way, the iDVD trick doesn't work with DVD-RAM in OS X.2.3 either.

This is interesting, considering that somebody has already said it DOES work with DVD-RW. I can understand this working in a PowerMac, considering the drive does support DVD-RW natively in OS X. But with the PowerBook, it does not support DVD-RW.

Eug · Dec 20, 2002, 07:47 PM

Well, I bought a DVD-RW (Pioneer), and the DVD-RW trick does NOT work in iDVD.

(ie. Started my iDVD slideshow encoding, ejected the DVD-R, and put in the DVD-RW - but it just spit back out the DVD-RW like it did with the DVD-RAM)

Either this is a change with iDVD, or else maybe there are pre-release firmwares floating around. Hmmm...

starman · Dec 21, 2002, 02:29 PM

Crap,
I just bought a SD TiBook this morning from the Short Hills, NJ Apple Store. I haven't opened it yet, but this thread about the inability of the drive to support DVD-RW really troubles me. The link for the Superdrive page on apple.com says it's supposed to support DVD-RW, dammit!

*sigh*

I hope a firmware update comes.

MIke

Eug · Dec 21, 2002, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by starman:
Crap,
I just bought a SD TiBook this morning from the Short Hills, NJ Apple Store. I haven't opened it yet, but this thread about the inability of the drive to support DVD-RW really troubles me. The link for the Superdrive page on apple.com says it's supposed to support DVD-RW, dammit!

*sigh*

I hope a firmware update comes.

MIke

Not that it means anything, but here is the PowerBook SuperDrive page. There is no mention of DVD-RW write support with this Panasonic drive. That's different from the PowerMac drives, which are Pioneer and LG drives.

starman · Dec 21, 2002, 08:03 PM

That page is highly misleading.

"The Legendary Superdrive"

The Superdrive I remember wrote to DVD-RW.

*sigh*

Mike

DaedalusDX · Dec 23, 2002, 03:08 AM

Originally posted by starman:
That page is highly misleading.

"The Legendary Superdrive"

The Superdrive I remember wrote to DVD-RW.

*sigh*

Mike

Its not misleading at all. They have a clearly laid out Specs page that states:

"SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW); writes DVD-R discs at 1x speed, reads DVDs at 6x speed, writes CD-R discs at 8x speed, writes CD-RW discs at 4x speed, reads CDs at 24x speed"

That's all Apple guarantees.

Even with the "Legendary" superdrive (the Pioneer A03/A04), apple has never listed DVD-RW compatibility in their specs. The fact that it DOES support DVD-RW is just a bonus.

That being said, i'm disappointed too, and look forward to an update, but i'm not getting too bent out of shape about it. Just got the SD TiBook today, and its awesome with or without DVD-RW.

Eug · Dec 23, 2002, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by DaedalusDX:

Even with the "Legendary" superdrive (the Pioneer A03/A04), apple has never listed DVD-RW compatibility in their specs. The fact that it DOES support DVD-RW is just a bonus.

Actually, there is mention of DVD-RW support on the PowerMac SuperDrive page. And by the way, not all PowerMac SuperDrives are Pioneers.

starman · Dec 23, 2002, 11:13 AM

Eug is right. If you read the PowerMAC Superdrive page, and then just glance at the header of the PowerBOOK Superdrive page, you'd believe that there was no difference between them.

VERY misleading, I think.

Mike

Eug · Dec 31, 2002, 01:37 PM

Another pic:

Note the 2X DVD-R write speed and the 16X CD-R write speed.

And keep your eyes on this thread. xvi is working hard on a region free patch.

Hopefully he'll be able to do it from the original DVD-Multi firmware.

mrtew · Jan 1, 2003, 09:28 AM

Cool. Will the patch make it burn DVD-RAM's or just play DVD's from all over the world?

Eug · Jan 1, 2003, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by mrtew:
Cool. Will the patch make it burn DVD-RAM's or just play DVD's from all over the world?

Well, it would certainly make it region free. No guarantee it would support DVD-RAM though.

However, if they can get an original Panasonic firmware, and if it works normally with OS X, then it is conceivable that we could have a region free firmware that supports 2X DVD-R burning, as well as burning to DVD-RW and DVD-RAM.

I suspect however, for the time being the only firmware available for hacking will be the Apple limited firmware.

Eug · Jan 8, 2003, 07:57 AM

Hmmm... Interesting. The new AluBook 17" has a 2X DVD-R slot load. Still no DVD-RW support though.

One wonders if it's a Panasonic UJ-815 with different firmware, or if it's a different brand.

Can somebody at the show take a look at the Apple System Profiler (firmware revision and model number)?

Simon X · Jan 8, 2003, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
Hmmm... Interesting. The new AluBook 17" has a 2X DVD-R slot load. Still no DVD-RW support though.

One wonders if it's a Panasonic UJ-815 with different firmware, or if it's a different brand.

Can somebody at the show take a look at the Apple System Profiler (firmware revision and model number)?

Eug,

Someone posted a link around here to a Japanese site with images of System Profiler from the new Books. Sorry, got to rush out so I haven't the time to find it. It's the same drive except for the Device Revision being D0C7, if memory serves.

Cellery · Jan 8, 2003, 08:31 AM

Eug · Jan 8, 2003, 09:40 AM

UJ-815 with D0C7

The exact same drive but a different firmware revision.

This firmware is going to be a hot commodity...

DVD Plaza · Jan 8, 2003, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
[B]This firmware is going to be a hot commodity...

Something tells me heat is exactly what it might generate in the 1GHz chasis

Eug · Jan 8, 2003, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
Note the 2X DVD-R write speed and the 16X CD-R write speed.

And keep your eyes on this thread. xvi is working hard on a region free patch.

Hopefully he'll be able to do it from the original DVD-Multi firmware.

This is going to be interesting.

Some issues:

1) How to get the 17" 2X DVD-R firmware? I suspect the software for getting the firmware requires an OS 9 boot. Not sure though.
2) How to patch the 12" and 17" firmware to region free? All the firmware patches these guys write require an OS 9 boot. Maybe having the 15" OS 9-bootable TiBook is a big plus after all, even without BlueTooth and Airport Extreme.

redmac1 · Jan 8, 2003, 12:06 PM

Wondering if the new firmware in the 17" that supports 2x burn will also allow it to support DVD-R and DVD-RW...

Hope Apple comes out with a firmware updater for the 15"... (not likely I suppose)

Eug · Jan 18, 2003, 11:28 AM

Now people are saying that Apple has told them the 17" won't support 2X burning. WTF?

Apple, please get your specs straight on your website.

But I will point out an interesting development. MCE has a TiBook DVD burner upgrade starting next month. Here are the specs:

DVD: 2x DVD-R, 1x DVD-RW, 8x DVD-ROM
CD: 16x CD-R, 8x CD-RW, 24x CD-ROM

I note that Panasonic's UJ-815 specs are as follows:

DVD: 2x DVD-R, 1x DVD-RW, 8x DVD-ROM, and 2X DVD-RAM
CD: 16x CD-R, 4x CD-RW, 24x CD-ROM

The only difference in the MCE specs are that it lists a faster CD-RW write speed, and it doesn't mention DVD-RAM.

Anybody care to wager that the MCE drive is the UJ-815 with a standard Panasonic (ie. uncrippled) firmware?