[SoGood]

Ok guys. I strongly suspect that this leaked 7b85 GM is a deliberate arrangement on Apple's part to further beta test their GM, a major release at that. Now, how else can they get a wider range of users without all the potential liabilities that can be associated with a major release? Using "pirates", Apple will get a few weeks of real world thrashing of their 10.3 by a group of dedicated Mac users, and vocal ones at that too. If indeed there's any major bug/s that surfaces, they'll have at least a week or more to come up with a fix before the public release date. And any disasters caused would be the sole responsibility of the "pirate" users and would not damage Apple's reputation. At the same time, some nice publicity could be generated should everything goes well. And any revenue loss would probably be small if it's well controlled and timed.

Anyway, just my suspicion... A bit of symbiosis b/n Apple and the geek/rumor community. Win-Win situation!

What do you guys think?

[bsodmike]

Interesting really. If they did props to 'em!!!

I've found one bug on my end already (simple one...)

Mike

[Zadian]

Originally posted by SoGood:
Ok guys. I strongly suspect that this leaked 7b85 GM is a deliberate arrangement on Apple's part to further beta test their GM, a major release at that.

Apple has already a "public beta testing programm", it's called Apple Seed. Beside that there are the ADC Members that test the software.

Both groups know how to test software and how to give feedback that will help eliminate the bugs discovered.

I don't think that bitching in an internet forum by some buccaneer beta tester is that useful for Apple. Apple doesn't know what sort of "stupid" stuff the pirate is doing and what kind of tinkering with the system the "geek" has done beside installing a leaked build.

More use for apple would be allowing more people to the Apple Seed program - but that program is on hold. Probably because of the leaked builds.

I think leaking builds is harming the users more than helping.

[naphtali]

Originally posted by Zadian:
I think leaking builds is harming the users more than helping.

Quite certainly. Most ADC members haven't gotten anything newer than 7B74 and you haven't any idea how annoying it is to have pirates running a newer build than real developers who need to test their app. Well thank you all pirates for helping.

[SoGood]

I don't doubt the fact that Apple, as well as all major software vendors, have a very strong group of beta testers working for or with them. However, there's a difference b/n that tester group and the everyday mum and pa type of users, or those kiddies who install, mix, uninstall the various hardwares and softwares. These represent the real life experience for the new OS.

It's one thing to be able to stand the test of use under ideal circumstances (ie. Fresh installations and use by sensible users), but it's totally another to be able to be robust and stand the thrashing of the real world.

I agree that there's a point of diminishing return on these leaks and hence suggested that the timing and control is critical from Apple's point of view. As for the "suffering" of the existing ADC group, well, Apple will seek their assistance and cooperation when it needs them. If Apple doesn't see the value, then ADC won't get that release. Simple as that.

Look at 10.2.8's first release. Whatever formal beta tests that was done on it was just woefully inadequate. If that was leaked a week earlier, it could have hosed a bunch of "pirate users" and Apple wouldn't have suffered a ding in reputation and consumer confidence.

[piracy]

No. You are completely wrong. The 7B85 leak was not deliberate, and leaking does more harm than good. It does not help the product at all.

Note to all people who think it does: you're completely wrong. Outside of the structured, documented testing environment of ADC, Customer Seeding, or other official channels, as well as bug reporting by the preexisting infrastructure (i.e. MacNN forums), it's completely valueless. And no, it doesn't help "just a little" and no action is taken on something that someone at Apple might or might not read in a forum.

In closing, it was not at all deliberate, by anyone, and leaks harm Apple, not help it.

[Hi I'm Ben]

Originally posted by SoGood:
I don't doubt the fact that Apple, as well as all major software vendors, have a very strong group of beta testers working for or with them. However, there's a difference b/n that tester group and the everyday mum and pa type of users, or those kiddies who install, mix, uninstall the various hardwares and softwares. These represent the real life experience for the new OS.

It's one thing to be able to stand the test of use under ideal circumstances (ie. Fresh installations and use by sensible users), but it's totally another to be able to be robust and stand the thrashing of the real world.

I agree that there's a point of diminishing return on these leaks and hence suggested that the timing and control is critical from Apple's point of view. As for the "suffering" of the existing ADC group, well, Apple will seek their assistance and cooperation when it needs them. If Apple doesn't see the value, then ADC won't get that release. Simple as that.

Look at 10.2.8's first release. Whatever formal beta tests that was done on it was just woefully inadequate. If that was leaked a week earlier, it could have hosed a bunch of "pirate users" and Apple wouldn't have suffered a ding in reputation and consumer confidence.

Your reasons behind justifying piracy are weak. You just want to feel better about downloading bit torrents. No, it's a TERRIBLE testing program... they might as well just give everyone a free copy of the OS if they were going to do it. It also makes 10.3 some cheap sort of shareware program... and what are they supposed to do? Make the operating system just STOP WORKING after a certain amount of time? Yeah, that wouldn't hurt apples reputation one bit. I'd say, let people use it, but they have to pre-order a non-refundable retail copy from apple first.

[KidRed]

Well, by Apple's design all those with 7B85 ARE beta testers. Those who pirated the copy are not by Apple's design. Apple has ADC, AppleSeed and many other way to test their software on mulitple configs without having to purposely leak thier builds.

Besides, you think Apple is going to leak their build then flock to MacNN and read the 4-5 posts that are actually intelligent and use that as beta feedback?

[starman]

Originally posted by naphtali:
Quite certainly. Most ADC members haven't gotten anything newer than 7B74 and you haven't any idea how annoying it is to have pirates running a newer build than real developers who need to test their app. Well thank you all pirates for helping.

Amen to that. You pay $500/year to be in ADC only to have some child pirate a newer build than you and then have the balls to whine about it.

Mike

[Busemann]

Well, 10.2.8 serves as proof that Apple's "official" channels don't expose every bug.

I know that many Apple employes read the rumor sites and forums, so who knows? I don't think the fact that 7B85 is on the loose hurts them at all.

[Mr Heliums]

Originally posted by starman:
Amen to that. You pay $500/year to be in ADC only to have some child pirate a newer build than you and then have the balls to whine about it.

Mike

And they'll be the first ones to whine when Mac OS X 10.4 is forced to employ the same sort of invasive licensing techniques used in XP.

[Xeo]

We have a 7B85 thread. Use it.