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frhamill · Nov 10, 2003, 11:57 PM

Woo hoo! So much for the high hopes of fixing the most glaring issues in Panther-- browsing and connecting to a Windows network and printing from a Windows shared printer! Are we going to have to wait for Puma or Lion?

gorickey · Nov 11, 2003, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by frhamill:
Are we going to have to wait for Puma or Lion?

Puma was 10.1....I hope we don't have to wait that long...

frhamill · Nov 11, 2003, 12:40 AM

oops! you're right about that... i bought my mac post puma!

cpac · Nov 11, 2003, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by frhamill:
Woo hoo! So much for the high hopes of fixing the most glaring issues in Panther-- browsing and connecting to a Windows network and printing from a Windows shared printer! Are we going to have to wait for Puma or Lion?

well it's not as though 10.3.1 was advertised to solve any networking problems whatsoever...

Scarpa · Nov 11, 2003, 03:48 AM

browsing and connecting to a Windows network and printing from a Windows shared printer![/B]

I do both in Jaguar..

DVD Plaza · Nov 11, 2003, 08:21 AM

Ironicly I had zero problems with SMB under Puma, yet Jaguar (which claimed to improve it) rooted it for me (kernel panics, spinning wheels of death, etc). I'm not even bothering to try with Panther.

kulverse · Nov 11, 2003, 09:29 AM

Yup. No worky in panther. It has totally screwed us at work since all our files are kept on a windows machine. We all have to go to a Mac running 10.2 to get files.

I cannot believe Apple did not fix this in 10.3.1

theolein · Nov 11, 2003, 10:00 AM

There was a discussion on /. about this last night. The version of Samba in Panther is 3 and apparently this has problems with version 2.2 as well as older Windows NT implementations, I assume. What is very important is that you either mail or give feedback to Apple about this problem since Panther seems to be riddled with networking issues.

Eug · Nov 11, 2003, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by theolein:
There was a discussion on /. about this last night. The version of Samba in Panther is 3 and apparently this has problems with version 2.2 as well as older Windows NT implementations, I assume. What is very important is that you either mail or give feedback to Apple about this problem since Panther seems to be riddled with networking issues.

Version 2.2 of what? And do you have a link to the /. discussion?

Apple is well aware of the networking issues. The complaints are plastered all over the Apple troubleshooting forums.

I can't believe that they missed it for this long during the beta period. The problems showed up immediately for many of us.

elmer · Nov 11, 2003, 10:41 AM

I can see two reasons for releasing 10.3.1 without fixing all known problems.
a) Some people just automatically wait for the first update before buying
b) Some types of updates just can't wait. Don't worry, the other problems will be fixed in good time.

Anand · Nov 11, 2003, 11:42 AM

I don't think we will see a fix for the networking issue for a while. And I don't think we will ever see mounted network shares from the finder network browswer.

sosumi · Nov 11, 2003, 11:44 AM

hmmmm, I wonder when a "good time" will be to make Panther work with a Windows network. Luckily for everyone there's not too many of those networks around.

kman42 · Nov 11, 2003, 11:59 AM

What issues are people having?

While it took me a good amount of time to configure the Windows machines, once they were up and running, they showed up just fine in the Panther Network browser. I'm curious what doesn't work so that I can avoid trying.

kman

Thinine · Nov 11, 2003, 12:05 PM

I haven't had any problems accessing Samba shares or Windows shared printers. In fact, I was able to find a shared printer when my PC using roommate couldn't.

Eug · Nov 11, 2003, 12:09 PM

There's a sticky thread at the top of this forum of all the network problems.

kulverse · Nov 11, 2003, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by kman42:
What issues are people having?

While it took me a good amount of time to configure the Windows machines, once they were up and running, they showed up just fine in the Panther Network browser. I'm curious what doesn't work so that I can avoid trying.

kman

Well. In a nutshell. Our server here was readable using Samba in Jaguar just fine. Panther cannot see the server at all unless I use AFP, which is slow as hell, and we can't see anything the Windows users put in there.

LfGrdMike · Nov 11, 2003, 01:09 PM

I think everyone needs to chill out. The firewire issue was more serious and so was the filevault one. The fact they were prompt to fix these is absolutely outstanding. They have to fix the networking issues. People cant dismount any servers and htey dont show up in finder windows side bar. Just relax hehe, I know its hard to wait, and i know for me 10.3.1 fixed minor things but I dont use filevault. Anyway expect 10.2.2 or 10.2.3 to fix it. I bet 10.2.2 will address most or all of the issues with networking. That is the next major bug on the list. Although not serious like what 10.3.1 fixed.

mcsjgs · Nov 11, 2003, 01:31 PM

Just speculating, but I would guess they will issue a smaller update to fix the networking bugs before they issue a major update to address the many other issues with Panther. Maybe in 1-2 weeks?

kulverse · Nov 11, 2003, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by LfGrdMike:
I think everyone needs to chill out. The firewire issue was more serious and so was the filevault one. The fact they were prompt to fix these is absolutely outstanding. They have to fix the networking issues. People cant dismount any servers and htey dont show up in finder windows side bar. Just relax hehe, I know its hard to wait, and i know for me 10.3.1 fixed minor things but I dont use filevault. Anyway expect 10.2.2 or 10.2.3 to fix it. I bet 10.2.2 will address most or all of the issues with networking. That is the next major bug on the list. Although not serious like what 10.3.1 fixed.

I've been chill. I'm just stating what is happening. Seeing how this is a buisness enviroment I'm in, proper networking is very important. Networking is essential to buisness. Though I'm not bitter or pissed at Apple (never really have been) about it, It should be fixed is all I'm saying, and it should have been fixed immediately. It's nothing to relax about. Luckily we have a scanning station with 10.2 still on it. We can access our files that way.

Our IT guy called Apple, and Apple is denying even there being an issue at all. So this raises my concern even more. It may require us to wipe our drives and go back to 10.2 unfortunately (or is there a way to go back without wiping the drive?) Too bad, cause I LOVE Panther.

So in short. For home...Yes networking is not a huge concern.

For a $20 Million company with 100 computers that all need to talk to the main server seamlessly....it is a huge concern.

Lets just hope it all gets figured out.

Eug · Nov 11, 2003, 02:54 PM

I think everyone needs to chill out. The firewire issue was more serious and so was the filevault one. The fact they were prompt to fix these is absolutely outstanding. They have to fix the networking issues. People cant dismount any servers and htey dont show up in finder windows side bar. Just relax hehe, I know its hard to wait, and i know for me 10.3.1 fixed minor things but I dont use filevault. Anyway expect 10.2.2 or 10.2.3 to fix it. I bet 10.2.2 will address most or all of the issues with networking. That is the next major bug on the list. Although not serious like what 10.3.1 fixed.

So not being able to access your file shares is not serious? See previous post and the sticky thread at the top of the forum - it's a huge problem.

Man, the Apple-apologists are out in full force today.

Some Guy [] · Nov 11, 2003, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Eug:
So not being able to access your file shares is not serious? See previous post and the sticky thread at the top of the forum - it's a huge problem.

Man, the Apple-apologists are out in full force today.

um, not being able to access some network shares some times (works fine for me and for others) ISN'T as important as fixing issues that will destroy your data.

Maybe you're just used to losing your data in the windoze world?

-justin

mcsjgs · Nov 11, 2003, 03:40 PM

Well, I would be a more than a little upset if my networking was set up and working well in Jaguar and then didn't work in Panther. Absolute necessity in business.

kulverse · Nov 11, 2003, 03:43 PM

If it were some shares some of the time, I'd agree. But that isnt the problem. Our problem is not seeing any SMB shares all the time. When it worked just fine in Jaguar. See my post above.

My problem is not that they put out 10.3.1 with no fix, thats awsome they did that so quick. But that Apple states the issue doesnt exist in the first place.

Either way, I put feedback in to Apple about it. I'm sure that will be more effective than my whining and complaining

Froggysan · Nov 11, 2003, 03:57 PM

Yeah, I guess I'm having the same problems
as everyone else.

I can see the Workgroups. I can see the
Windows based Computers. I can even see/connect
to the Windows Shares.

But inside the shares is sweet f*** all.
No files, no folders, not a trace of anything.

Jaguar and my other PC can see/browse/use
the shares without issue.

I'm going to call Apple tonight and see what they have to say about the issue.

Eug · Nov 11, 2003, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by mcsjgs:
Well, I would be a more than a little upset if my networking was set up and working well in Jaguar and then didn't work in Panther. Absolute necessity in business.

Yup.

Absolute necessity in business. And major annoyance even at home.

AJ · Nov 11, 2003, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by kulverse:
I've been chill. I'm just stating what is happening. Seeing how this is a buisness enviroment I'm in, proper networking is very important. Networking is essential to buisness. Though I'm not bitter or pissed at Apple (never really have been) about it, It should be fixed is all I'm saying, and it should have been fixed immediately. It's nothing to relax about. Luckily we have a scanning station with 10.2 still on it. We can access our files that way.

Our IT guy called Apple, and Apple is denying even there being an issue at all. So this raises my concern even more. It may require us to wipe our drives and go back to 10.2 unfortunately (or is there a way to go back without wiping the drive?) Too bad, cause I LOVE Panther.

So in short. For home...Yes networking is not a huge concern.

For a $20 Million company with 100 computers that all need to talk to the main server seamlessly....it is a huge concern.

Lets just hope it all gets figured out.

Surely if getting these things right is important, especially when large sums of money are involved, you'd have waited before upgrading the machines. Y'know, just to see if there are any bugs in an .0 release that might affect your work routine?

LfGrdMike · 04:21 PM

Not true.

#1 the networking issue does not cause data loss.

#2 if you are using panther in corporate already you made a bad decision. Wait for 10.3.3 before you do.

#3 There are so many bugs in the networking like the servers not mounting in the sidebar that they would have to hold off fixing filevault and firewire which were more serious to begin with to release the update.

#4 This is just plain common sense when in a business environment. Wait for it to be patched a few times first.

Go ahead flame me but you can�t really deny that. It�s fine to update in a business but not with fresh releases like .0

LfGrdMike · Nov 11, 2003, 04:19 PM

I am not apologizing for anybody. Your just angry because I said this bug isn't serious. If this bug caused corruption on servers then it would be serious. Apple shouldn't make people who are affected by other bugs wait for completed fixes just to solve other prbs. They will get bugs fixed based on demand as fast as they can. My entire point is that obviously apple has to fix the network prb. If you have a problem waiting for bugs in .0 releases that affect you then you shouldn't update so early. OS's are complicated and not easy to build so their will be prbs initially. Jaguar is a completed project panther is still being fixed and will be until lion or 10.4.

kulverse · Nov 11, 2003, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by LfGrdMike:
Not true.

#1 the networking issue does not cause data loss.

#2 if you are using panther in corporate already you made a bad decision. Wait for 10.3.3 before you do.

#3 There are so many bugs in the networking like the servers not mounting in the sidebar that they would have to hold off fixing filevault and firewire which were more serious to begin with to release the update.

#4 This is just plain common sense when in a business environment. Wait for it to be patched a few times first.

Go ahead flame me but you can�t really deny that. It�s fine to update in a business but not with fresh releases like .0

I don't think anyone said the network bug caused data loss.

Why do people automatically assume everyone is going to flame.

I agree with you, but also, in a buisness enviroment, it's not the artists determination to upgrade, it's the IT's. The IT department saw that panther had improved windows networking (yeah right) and they made the decision. Now it's biting them in the ass.

So in other words... I certainly did not have anything to do with the upgrade.

[quote]Your just angry because I said this bug isn't serious[/b]

I've staed many times that I'm not angry in anyway.

LfGrdMike · Nov 11, 2003, 04:31 PM

Networking DOESNOT cause data loss which is why it can't be classified as serious. Major yes it is.

Your IT department sounds like its ran by a group of doofs. I would complain.

MusicalTone · Nov 11, 2003, 04:39 PM

Yeah, I am having problems at Home too. Got an Airport Extreme base station networking two laptops - 1 PowerBook and a Vaio.

Was able to browse all PC shares from the PowerBook fine under Jaguar. With Panther it is very hit and miss. Sometimes the shares show up and I can see what is in them. Sometimes they show up and they are just empty folders. Today I have a mixture of both - some shares are empty others not (?).

I can still browse and access all my Powerbook Shares from the Vaio.

The issue of browsed shares not mounting on the desktop or sidebar seems to be deliberate. Whist annoying for me when I shut down the Vaio (I get a popup on the PowerBook for each share that has gone down telling me its gone down and asking if I want to disconnect), this must be a major pain in the ass for folks on a network who have browsed many many shares, as their is no way to disconnect these prior to the popup.

I can see what Apple is trying to do with the non-mounting shares, and personally I am happy to then mount any shares that I want via the Control-K route. But the disconnect popups is a major regressive step and needs some thought.

Eug · Nov 11, 2003, 04:53 PM

I am not apologizing for anybody.

Of course you are. You're apologizing for Apple.

Your just angry because I said this bug isn't serious.

No I'm irritated because it's a serious bug. Your belittling people's issues with this bug is merely annoying and is a side matter.

Anyways, yes it can cause data loss, although not usually.

The networking bug will sometimes create local directories which do not have any actual relation to the shared directory on the network at all, despite the fact that the local directories are named after the network share. If you save a file in that local directory (which could get lost, at least with respect to the Finder), it will not get saved in the network share.

kulverse · Nov 11, 2003, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by LfGrdMike:
Networking DOESNOT cause data loss which is why it can't be classified as serious. Major yes it is.

Your IT department sounds like its ran by a group of doofs. I would complain.

That's being a bit judgmental. They made a mistake. Yes, obviously. Are they doofs? No.

Eug · Nov 11, 2003, 05:16 PM

Actually, one of the main problems with this bug is that it is inconsistent. It MAY work on some test machines just fine, but will start to have problems on other machines but not always when it is first installed.

It could very well be that Panther was tested by that guy's IT department with Windows network shares and it worked fine... until the whole dept. went online.

That and the fact that it was working 100% OK in X.2, and it was X.3 that BROKE it. It wasn't even a newly added feature that wasn't working properly. It was an old feature that worked fine before.

DannyVTim · Nov 11, 2003, 05:17 PM

This problem shouldn't be there, but at the same time, where is your ITs testing?

My company would have spent months testing it out and this would have been a show stopper.

so, apple does need to address this, but your IT department should roll back to 10.2 and admit fault by rolling out 10.3 in the first place.

DannyVTim · Nov 11, 2003, 05:21 PM

BTW, even though you may not be able to browse to your shared drives, I think you can always connect to them to get to your files.

kulverse · Nov 11, 2003, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by DannyVTim:
This problem shouldn't be there, but at the same time, where is your ITs testing?

My company would have spent months testing it out and this would have been a show stopper.

so, apple does need to address this, but your IT department should roll back to 10.2 and admit fault by rolling out 10.3 in the first place.

Well, it's as Eug stated above. Its a feature thats been there and was never broken before. But Like I said, no one is denying their mistake. Including them. Rolling back to 10.2 will involve wiping our machines. That's a no go.

That said, They had Panther running on a Dual 450 for a week in their office before they installed here. What they were doing with that installation is beyond me. I do not know what was tested and what wasn't. I'm not aware if they had SMB running or not on that install. For now, we are using AFP and a scan station with 10.2 on it for accessing files. Which is fine, but AFP is slow(er).

Eug · Nov 11, 2003, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by DannyVTim:
BTW, even though you may not be able to browse to your shared drives, I think you can always connect to them to get to your files.

No, not always.

DannyVTim · Nov 11, 2003, 05:38 PM

Have you tried connecting to the share without browser?

I agree that it should have worked and that is Apple's fault. But I think that your IT department has made a huge mistake. Moreover, they should have a roll back plan. A week of testing is just not nearly enough. They goofed up in a huge way. Why aren't the shares being automounted anyway?

Eug · 05:46 PM

Originally posted by DannyVTim:
Have you tried connecting to the share without browser?

Yes. In X.3 it often/usually works, but sometimes it does not. It always worked in X.2.

Also, if you continue to use the share, and don't sleep the computer or whatever the share will continue to work (assuming you can connect to it in the first place).

ie. If a couple of IT guys had several different X.3 desktops running 24/7 connected to Windows shares, it might have worked fine for weeks. But throw some more variation in terms of usage patterns into the mix and then all h3ll breaks loose.

LfGrdMike · 06:51 PM

Eug your being an ass saying I am sticking up for a company keep it up. I understand the bug is a PITA but god what do you guys expect of a .0 release. I am having the same problem as you guys. I expected this using a .0 release. Obviously Eug can't handle that.

The fact of the matter is problems occur and unfortunately we are pegged in the head with a bug. Taking your anger out on me saying I am sticking up for apple and all that BS isn't going to help the problem. We are both in the same boat and know apple made a mistake. How could anybody possibly want to defend apple based on that fact. Frankly I think 10.3 is very good but needed a few more builds to get it ready for prime time.

The networking in panther has been totally rewritten. The fact that 10.2 works has no effect on panther. They are totally different. The entire thing has been made better but there are lots of internal bugs.

So to sum it up Panther is a MAJOR release and is dramatically different from jaguar.

However I hope this bug does get fixed soon because it pisses me off that Apple missed it. Perhaps they had no choice because of a deadline.

Eug · Nov 11, 2003, 06:52 PM

The fact of the matter is problems occur and unfortunately we are pegged in the head with a bug. Taking your anger out on me saying I am sticking up for apple and all that BS isn't going to help the problem.

And your posting "Your IT guys are idiots" is helping solve the problem how?

LfGrdMike · Nov 11, 2003, 06:54 PM

Eug lay off man god.

Why would a NA put a .0 release on a corporate level initally. I would stay on 10.2 and wait to c what bugs exist in panther. Its Common sense. Was your last post helpful or was it just to insult me.

neoTony · Nov 11, 2003, 06:57 PM

Has anybody actually covered what the problem is and where it lies? AFAIK, the incompatibilty is caused by Samba 3.x...

Sure, apple needs to take responsibility for products they choose to include with their operating system, but is everybody using Samba 3 seeing this problem? (I mean on linux/other unices)

If they are, then this will be fixed quickly, and possibly be patched before apple releases it's next OS update, otherwise, Apple will hear the girly screaming from this thread and take note

Seriously, it's already been said, but moving to an x.0 release is just plain silly.

LfGrdMike · Nov 11, 2003, 07:00 PM

Its not just samba. Networking is littered with minor bugs. My mac server at home isn't mounting on the sidebar on panther. I can go through the network however. Also manually diconnecting is therefore not an option. Its messed up.

Of course there are probably more serious bugs in the networking this is just a minor one. Kind of annoying.

Look its a must, They have to fix this. no questions asked. Panther can not be littered with these bugs in networking forever. I will bitch like there is no tomorow if it ends up being the case. I paid edu for this but i didn't spend my money for no support. So you won't have to wait until 10.4 rest assured.

kulverse · Nov 11, 2003, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by neoTony:
Apple will hear the girly screaming from this thread and take note

Better yet. Just give feedback on Apples site and maybe they will fix it. Thats what i did.

frhamill · Nov 11, 2003, 09:02 PM

i'm glad i posted this thread!

it's making me forget that i still can't print from Windows shared printer and browse the Windows network here at work!

Eug · 09:25 PM

Has anybody actually covered what the problem is and where it lies? AFAIK, the incompatibilty is caused by Samba 3.x...

I mentioned it earlier in the thread before it was sidetracked, but there's more info in the networking sticky thread in this forum, and on the Apple discussion forums.

Originally posted by LfGrdMike:
Eug lay off man god.

Right back at ya.

Tell me, if you don't have anything useful to contribute, then why are you here anyway?

Was your last post helpful or was it just to insult me.

Just to tell you to look in the mirror, my friend.

LfGrdMike · Nov 11, 2003, 09:24 PM

Eug you seemed to not comment about how you post insults toward me and others. You haven't contributed much in your last few posts but insult myself and others. Keep it up... Your helping just as much as I am chief.

Eug · Nov 11, 2003, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by LfGrdMike:
Eug you seemed to not comment about how you post insults toward me and others. You haven't contributed much in your last few posts but insult myself and others. Keep it up... Your helping just as much as I am chief.

Look. I've actually tried to point people in this thread to the other thread, and tried to further explain what the problem was.

Your comments have mostly been to insult people. kulverse said it best.

"That's being a bit judgmental. They made a mistake. Yes, obviously. Are they doofs? No."

Now do you have any helpful info on how to solve the problem?