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Evil dad wants to check up on son (Page 2)
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squiggy
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Nov 18, 2003, 10:14 AM
 
Originally posted by torifile:
1) Create a non-privileged user for his account.
2) Edit his /etc/hosts file to redirect ALL traffic but those to particular, mutually agreed upon sites to 127.0.0.1.
3) Install an Openfirmware password preventing booting except from the startup volume so he can't change the root password

The benefits of this are that he and you can discuss what sites are beneficial for him to use - he could make an argument for espn.com, for example and you could hash it out. You're doing what you can to protect your son and he's a party to the decision making process. Of course, you've got the final say but it could be a give-take sort of thing and give him a sense that you respect his opinion.
Hands down this is the best suggestion anyone has given and it's the only one that really has you discussing the situation with your son and coming to a mutual understanding.
     
torifile
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Nov 18, 2003, 10:37 AM
 
Originally posted by squiggy:
Hands down this is the best suggestion anyone has given and it's the only one that really has you discussing the situation with your son and coming to a mutual understanding.
Thank you! My posts tend to get lost in a sea of replies, but I put a lot of thought into it. I thought some more about it and you could also restrict his application access to essential things (e.g. Safari, iChat [maybe], Word and others that he needs to use). If he wants more access, you can discuss it with him and give him incrementally more privileges as he earns it.
     
ebuddy
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Nov 18, 2003, 11:03 AM
 
Thank you! My posts tend to get lost in a sea of replies, but I put a lot of thought into it. I thought some more about it and you could also restrict his application access to essential things (e.g. Safari, iChat [maybe], Word and others that he needs to use). If he wants more access, you can discuss it with him and give him incrementally more privileges as he earns it.

A "sea of replies" is a welcome sight on a web forum. I believe you most effectively addressed one symptom of the overall problem Torafile. However, I believe the real problem itself still goes unchecked. I'm sorry, a 13 yr old child ballzy enough to use credit cards fraudulently on the internet (regardless of intent) is scary to me. He believes he is beyond the reach of authority and this I'm afraid to say is only the beginning. There's a much bigger problem here that no computer configuration, software, or boarding school can correct. I hope I'm wrong though I doubt it.
ebuddy
     
Big Mac
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Nov 18, 2003, 11:41 AM
 
This is a complex issue indeed. Many of the contributors to this thread may not appreciate the difficult situation the original poster is in. At first blush I was going to agree with torifile, who reasonably suggested limiting the sites the son has access to. That can be accomplished through the more technical procedure outlined, or with graphical software such as Intego's Content Barrier. That sounded like a good compromise between complete trust and spyware. But, on the other hand, any approach like that may well encourage his son to use another computer to access the Internet. This father's trust has been violated to the point where he must consider spyware, so there's every reason to think his kid will be less than honest with him in the future.

If his son isn't trusted to act responsibly, spyware may be the most effective, albeit least desirable, choice. As others have pointed out, though, the original poster doesn't have the technical expertise to implement it. One certainly has to be experienced to place a covert kext, especially now that there's some sort of Apple coding requirement in place that offers minimal protection against hackers. A cleverly coded and named faceless application (daemon) is more feasible, but that doesn't make the process much easier. This task is beyond the realm of even most experienced computer users -- you really need a Unix programming geek. (And here's a half serious caveat: Now that hackers are being pursued in earnest by the law, it may even be illegal to do this to your son's machine. Well, you likely don't have much to be worried about, but there's always the possibility your son could turn you in to Microsoft and collect their bounty!)

I had another idea, which was that the father could contact the boarding school and request that they closely monitor his machine. Of course, he already mentioned that the school relies on dialup, which means they probably don't have a lot of control over their own network. There goes that idea... However you choose to proceed, original poster, I wish you luck and strength. You're in an unenviable position.

Oh, btw, just as a general admonishment to no one in particular. It may be the fashionable thing for kids to dismiss their parents and rebel against them. Realize, though, that all of our time on this earth is precious, and one's parents aren't alive forever. Most of them are decent, and therefore deserving of honor and appreciation for all they have done. Just something to consider.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
torifile
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Nov 18, 2003, 11:58 AM
 
For all you spyware advocates, what does that solve? So the dad finds out that the kid is doing things he shouldn't. What does he do with it? Confront the son, tell the police, whatever. Nothing is prevented and while it would be nice to be able to hang a "BUSTED!!!" sign on the kid's bedroom door, nothing else is accomplished.

Or

The dad finds out that the kid isn't using the computer for nefarious purposes. Wonderful. He can't reinforce him for changing his ways because he'll have deceived him by not telling him about the spyware.

So, in short, the spyware is not only NOT doing anything productive it's also ACTIVELY taking away an opportunity to reinforce good behavior. BTW, reinforcement is ALWAYS a more effective behavior changer than punishment. Think about that.
     
petehammer
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Nov 18, 2003, 12:07 PM
 
Originally posted by torifile:
<snip>
The father may be legally responsible for the actions of his (minor) son. So, I think he does have a stake in the matter, more than just punishing his son... his own ass could be on the line.
If after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say ["You're right, we were wrong -- good job"] -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush."
-moki, 04/16/03 (Props to Spheric Harlot)
     
Spliffdaddy
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Nov 18, 2003, 12:12 PM
 
Seems all the teenagers reckon it's a bad idea and all of us 30-somethings believe it's a good idea. hmm. Well there's your answer.


http://www.keylogger-program.net/Spector-Mac.html

^ be careful with snapshot frequency, or just use the keylogger & activity monitoring functions.

OS8-9 $70 (does he boot into OS9?)

http://www.securemac.com/typerecorder.php?comment=all

OSX Shareware $15.99 (or is it $29.99? there seems to be some dispute. read the comments at the bottom of that page)

Install those on your son's machine. At least you can say "I made every reasonable effort to monitor his computer-related activity...even when I couldn't be there to do it."


Just a quick note about keystroke recorders...


You'll spend 10X MORE time trying to figure out the user's activity than the user spent doing it.

Unless you can reference the keystroke log on a regular basis (daily, not weekly or monthly) it won't be worth the effort.

Take it from somebody who spent a lot of time reviewing keystroke logs. When it says 'keystroke', it means it. All the spelling errors will have backspaces, the words sometimes offer no clue as to their context, and if your son plays any sort of games on his computer you'll see like six straight hours worth of recorded up arrow, down arrow, spacebar, etc. 15 megabytes of text generated by the keystroke logger - all of it worthless.

One more thing...

Even though you may never find out what you WANT to know - you'll definitely find out stuff you DIDN'T WANT to know. Yes, Virginia, all people are as perverted as we are.


PS, for stealth you want to stick with a basic keystroke logger - avoid spy software that takes snapshots of the desktop. Snapshots sound like a good idea, but it's like seeing one frame of a movie.... every ten minutes. Also, if you aren't planning to "check the snare" every few days, the filesize of the captured snapshots can grow to something noticeable to the user.

Good keystroke loggers will encrypt and hide their results and offer the ability to transmit their results over a network.

Experiment on your own computer first. Run a keylogger for a few days and then check the results of the log. Pretty massive, huh? And you thought you hardly touched the keyboard. Frequent user of chat clients? OMG you're in for a real treat. You get to see one side of a conversation...well, one side of several simultaneous conversations, mostly. This is always hilarious to read, even if you wrote it.


Most large companies are running keystroke loggers or 'activity monitors' on their employee's computers. But like I was saying, it's time-consuming to interpret the results. Unless there is some reason to investigate the logs, they don't waste their time looking.

You can defeat nearly any keystroke logger by using your mouse and the on-screen keyboard supplied by any modern OS.
( Last edited by Spliffdaddy; Nov 18, 2003 at 01:26 PM. )
     
ebuddy
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Nov 18, 2003, 12:17 PM
 
his own ass could be on the line.

I agree 100% Petehammer!

I also can't reiterate enough the importance of "hands on" with this kid. I'd have him home and involved with so much extra-curricular activity (i.e. sports, music, acedemia, etc...) that he'd either not have enough time to surf ESPN.com nor enough energy let alone surfing undesirable sites. He's a kid. They will push boundaries. This kid has clearly pushed a boundary with not only mom or day, but with the Federal Courts. His energy needs to be channeled away from the computer in general. Punishing is not the answer necessarily, but a well-rounded, busy upbringing by a mom or dad at home may just be the ticket. Time spent with kid is precious indeed. Hard to do with a 13 year old in a boarding school many miles away. Soon he'll be 20 years old and you will have wished you spent more time with him.

Love, strong discipline, parental availability, etc... much more important than the computer.
ebuddy
     
LfGrdMike
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Nov 18, 2003, 12:28 PM
 
Screw the spyware. Do this

Take over his admin account don't let him install anything and restrict access to his internet browsers. This way you control the computer. Do this for a few months until he learns his lesson.

So you will own the admin account

He will have a user account that you setup with restrictions.

Now if he refuses to tell you his password so you can change it. Then just start that sucker up with an OSX cd and reset it. So basically you win in the end,
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memento
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Nov 18, 2003, 01:07 PM
 
Originally posted by RMXO:
I have to agree with CharlesS idea. Just tell you are going to put spyware on his laptop. During his process of trying to find the Spyware, he will learn more about the OS. Could be a good.....

I for one understand your delinma. I for one screwed up in my late teens & early 20's. Now it has an affect on me to find work. Wished I knew what I know now.......
I can't agree that actively lying to your son is a good idea. sorry.
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Nai no Kami
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Nov 18, 2003, 06:15 PM
 
I can�t believe this.
A guy asks for technical advise and most of the posters are telling him a lesson on how to behave.
If this guy asks for help to do something, just help him or not help him.
He has even been forced by the posters to reveal part of his motivation to act. And you don't even know if that's true. What's the use of discussing if something is legal or not, or how to be the best dad or how to have a Lacanian attitude to wards the problem?. The starter of this thread may even be a kid trying to spy his dad's computer for relevant numbers!.
That said, help him or not help him. Save your morality to yourself or your own children.

Y no entienden nada... ¡y cómo se divierten!...
     
rjc3  (op)
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Nov 18, 2003, 06:34 PM
 
wow, in my wildest dreams I didn't expect the response I've gotten here. I really want to thank EVERYONE for posting their comments, even the ones who think I am a real S.O.B. for wanting to "spy" on my son.
A few clarifications: I am not rich. My son did not get into trouble at the boarding school. In fact, to some extent, he is there because of the trouble he was getting into at home. As a parent, I acknowledge that my child's actions reflect primarily upon myself and the job I have done as a parent. However, I would like to point out that my other two children have NEVER been in serious trouble, and I give myself some credit for this. For whatever reason, my 13 year old is struggling.
I take issue with the suggestions by many that I have no right to check up on my child. Checking up on your kids is the very essence of parenting. A 13 year old does not have the rights and privileges of an adult, and to suggest otherwise strains common sense. Can a 13 year old drive? vote? cosume alcohol? be a senator? of course not. A parent may ground his children, thereby restricitng their freedom. Is this false imprisonment? of course not. I know many 13 year olds will take issue with this, but a 13 year old is simply not mature enough to make life-affecting decisions without input and guidance from their parents.
THis is MY son, who I have raised from infancy. He is using a computer purchased by ME at a school paid for by ME. (the computer, btw, is a requirement at his school). He has demonstrated his penchant for making poor decisions in the past, and obviously needs additional supervision as a consequence to ensure the same mistakes are not made again.
whew, OK, now that I got that off my chest, I think I am leaning towards the following:
1. Sitting down for a serious talk with my son.
2. Explaining to the best o fmy ability the wrongfullness and potential consequences of his actions.
3. Explain that as a consequnce of violating my trust, I will be monitoring his computer use.
4. Install a keystroke logger program designed to automatically email my the log every so often.
5. Keep said program installed throughout the period of his court "supervision" and remove it at that point.
With that in mind, I ask your help in implementing my plan. I've found several keystroke loggers for OS X, but need a way to set up my son's computer to periodically send me the log as an email. I've checked into using "cron" to accomplish this. Is there a way to tell cron to send the file only when my son connects to the internet? I have figured out how to do it so it emails on teh first minute of a certain hour of the day, but am worried that my son will figure this out and simply not sign on during those times. Any suggestions?
Again, thanks to all for a stimulating and educational discussion.
     
rjc3  (op)
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Nov 18, 2003, 06:39 PM
 
Actually, although I didn't ask for the discussion, I really have appreciated the comments and discussion regarding the propriety of my actions.
That said, I am pretty well decided on my course of action (see prev. post) and am now essentially just asking for technical help in accomplishing my goal.


Originally posted by Nai no Kami:
I can�t believe this.
A guy asks for technical advise and most of the posters are telling him a lesson on how to behave.
If this guy asks for help to do something, just help him or not help him.
He has even been forced by the posters to reveal part of his motivation to act. And you don't even know if that's true. What's the use of discussing if something is legal or not, or how to be the best dad or how to have a Lacanian attitude to wards the problem?. The starter of this thread may even be a kid trying to spy his dad's computer for relevant numbers!.
That said, help him or not help him. Save your morality to yourself or your own children.
     
Grammar Police
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Nov 18, 2003, 06:47 PM
 
Originally posted by Nai no Kami:
I can�t believe this.
A guy asks for technical advise and most of the posters are telling him a lesson on how to behave.
If this guy asks for help to do something, just help him or not help him.
He has even been forced by the posters to reveal part of his motivation to act. And you don't even know if that's true. What's the use of discussing if something is legal or not, or how to be the best dad or how to have a Lacanian attitude to wards the problem?. The starter of this thread may even be a kid trying to spy his dad's computer for relevant numbers!.
That said, help him or not help him. Save your morality to yourself or your own children.
That's "technical advice". "Advise" is a verb. "Advice" is a noun. Go grab a dictionary.

And if you actually bothered to read the entire thread, you would see that the people responding are not only helping rjc3 out, but they are also having an intelligent conversation about parenting and politics.

rjc3 has been thoughtfully reading and responding to many of the posts: both the ones that are suggesting keystrokers as well as the ones that are questioning his ability as a father. I don't know about you, but I have learned a lot by reading this thread and it has made me think about some very important issues.

So I suggest you cram it.
     
Scarpa
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Nov 18, 2003, 06:56 PM
 
Originally posted by rjc3:
3. Explain that as a consequnce of violating my trust, I will be monitoring his computer use.

Is there a way to tell cron to send the file only when my son connects to the internet? I have figured out how to do it so it emails on teh first minute of a certain hour of the day, but am worried that my son will figure this out and simply not sign on during those times. Any suggestions?
First, I think it is a great idea that you are going to monitor him with his knowledge. I totally understand the need to monitor him, but to do so surreptitiously could backfire and push him back to his illegal activities.

Anyway, about your technical problem- explain to him that as a condition of his continued computer use that he has to enable your program to send results. If you miss more than say, three consecutive updates, then there will be consequences. Whether you actually have the ability to yank his computer access given his school requirements may complicate things, but I'm sure you can work out suitable consequences. Have you considered having the school assist you with this? There is a lot at stake for them too if he repeats his former actions with school property.
     
dice
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Nov 18, 2003, 07:22 PM
 
Instead of recording keystrokes why don't you just grab the history file of the browser.

I'd imagine it would be possible to have a script that would email the file upon connection to the internet...
     
Amorya
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Nov 18, 2003, 07:49 PM
 
Ordinarily I would be entirely against spying like that. I'm a firm believer in trusting the kid. When I was 13 I got my own computer (worked for it too), my own modem, and my own net account. My parents weren't allowed to touch it. If they'd really wanted, they could have forbidden me from using the phone line, but there was no way in hell they were getting into my computer. Privacy was really important to me.

But if the kid's done something illegal, then my opinion changes. Since he's actually been caught in the past (as opposed to just suspected), I think the father has every right to install spyware. All you guys who are saying it's morally wrong, think for a moment: it's not as if it's an innocent kid with an overprotective father. The kid did something wrong: there should be some way of making sure he doesn't do it again. Especially as the dad could be held liable too.


Amorya
What the nerd community most often fail to realize is that all features aren't equal. A well implemented and well integrated feature in a convenient interface is worth way more than the same feature implemented crappy, or accessed through a annoying interface.
     
moonmonkey
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Nov 18, 2003, 08:43 PM
 
Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
No offense, but the father has every right in the world to monitor his child.
Does he have every right to access his children's mail, Health records, Bank account details etc?

I don't think so.
     
torifile
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Nov 18, 2003, 08:56 PM
 
Originally posted by moonmonkey:
Does he have every right to access his children's mail, Health records, Bank account details etc?

I don't think so.

When they're minors, yes. When they turn 18, absolutely not. In case you missed it, this kid's 13.
     
Dlatu1983
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Nov 18, 2003, 09:04 PM
 
I'm not a lawyer, but in my mind, the legality of this is questionable, when you're talking about a legal adult who doesn't live under your roof. In the eyes of the law, it's not much different than you installing one in my computer, I would imagine.
     
crouchingtiger
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Nov 18, 2003, 09:50 PM
 
Originally posted by Dlatu1983:
I'm not a lawyer, but in my mind, the legality of this is questionable, when you're talking about a legal adult who doesn't live under your roof. In the eyes of the law, it's not much different than you installing one in my computer, I would imagine.
ummm, legally a 13-year old is NOT an adult.
     
Captain Obvious
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Nov 18, 2003, 10:03 PM
 
Originally posted by moonmonkey:
Does he have every right to access his children's mail, Health records, Bank account details etc?

I don't think so.

Yes, if the person in question is under 18 then yeah the legal guardian can do all sorts of things like this. There might be issue if the minor purchased the item himself but I don't think that was the case here. In fact if you retain ownership on paper somewhere of this laptop.... homeowner's insurance or maybe even Apple Registration database, you are the legal owner of the machine and can install anything your little heart desires. It is fairly similar to a business issuing a computer to an employee.

Anyway, knock yourself out installing this. I am not the kid's father (at least I don't think I am) and you should raise him how you want to. But if I were you I would speak with someone who is experienced in family counseling and throw your idea past them. They would be far more qualified to criticize this and tell you the repercussions.

But I am with the camp of people that says strip the boy of the iBook and get him a cheap used PC laptop. There are far better spying programs on the PC side. I wouldn't worry about this as much about this anymore.
He's in Prep school now. The rampant drug use and sexual carnage will overshadow his urges to sit at his computer. I'm still mad I wasn't allowed to go to Exeter.

Barack Obama: Four more years of the Carter Presidency
     
mamamia
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Nov 18, 2003, 10:12 PM
 
Originally posted by Dlatu1983:
I'm not a lawyer, but in my mind, the legality of this is questionable,
I am a lawyer. This is not illegal.
I am also a parent. This is not unethical.
I am also a mac user. For the love of god, your kid screwed up, but forcing him to us a pc (as some members of this forum have suggested) would be akin to cruel and unusual punishment.
funky bitch
     
Dlatu1983
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Nov 18, 2003, 11:12 PM
 
Oh, I read that this kid was away at school, so I assumed it was college. If I'm not living under my father's roof, and I'm using a computer that I own, and my father installs keylogging software, I can take him to court, plain and simple. I didn't realize this kid was only 13 though.
     
Nai no Kami
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Nov 18, 2003, 11:29 PM
 
Grammar Police spitted:
That's "technical advice". "Advise" is a verb. "Advice" is a noun. Go grab a dictionary.
My English is much better than your Spanish.
Don't even dare to make a mistake in Spanish, Portuguese or French, or I will make you look like a jerk... once again. Please.


And if you actually bothered to read the entire thread, you would see that the people responding are not only helping rjc3 out, but they are also having an intelligent conversation about parenting and politics.
I have bothered to read the entire thread. If you had read the first post, you should understand that all the comments regarding how rjc3 must behave towards his son are absolutely out of place.


rjc3 has been thoughtfully reading and responding to many of the posts: both the ones that are suggesting keystrokers as well as the ones that are questioning his ability as a father
Agree. rjc3 appears to be much kinder than you.


I don't know about you, but I have learned a lot by reading this thread and it has made me think about some very important issues.
Although one can squeeze useful things from almost anywhere, that doesn't change the fact that this is not the right place for certain comments.

So I suggest you cram it.
...

Y no entienden nada... ¡y cómo se divierten!...
     
Person Man
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Nov 19, 2003, 12:08 AM
 
Originally posted by ebuddy:
He can use the family computer in the livingroom during the hours of 3pm to 8pm if needed for studies and with the clear understanding that spyware is active and watching.
No spyware is necessary if the computer is put in a high-traffic area where the kid knows that at almost any time, someone could walk in and see what's going on.
     
wadesworld
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Nov 19, 2003, 12:16 AM
 
Does he have every right to access his children's mail, Health records, Bank account details etc?
What part of "child" did you miss?

Minors have very few real rights, and that's exactly how it should be as most minors are not nearly mature enough to handle the responsibilities that go with such rights (his sons trangressions being a case in point).

rjc3,

If you setup a cron job to email the file, it will queue it up if he's not connected and will send it again when he's connected. Make sure you send it via Postfix, not by trying to script Mail.app or some such. And make sure there's a cron job running to process the Postfix queue every 10 minutes or so.

To keep him from disabling your work, lots of things could be tried, but they can all be defeated with physical access to the machine. So, as someone suggested, setup a policy with him that if you miss more than X number of reports, he has to explain why.

Wade
     
Since EBCDIC
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Nov 19, 2003, 06:27 AM
 
Any hint that the son's computer will be monitored will only drive the son to using another of the many private or public computers at school. This is so painfully obvious that I'm surprised that I have to mention this.

rjc3 ought to sit down with his son and explicitly go over the court order and be very specific about what behaviors are acceptable and which are not. No mention of snoopware.

Then, parenting a 13-year-old who is already in hot water with The Man, he should install a professional keystroke logger / screenshot tool. No home-made hack jobs, something which a non-techie can install and use.

I leave legal questions about what a parent is compelled to tell officers of the court if malfeasance is spotted to rjc3's attorney.

I leave ethical questions to you. Decide what you would do if your son was already in the situation rjc3 described. It's not a pretty state of affairs, and not easy for the son or father.

(In a perfect world the son would be given full freedom of information privacy, but credit card fraud isn't so perfect. The court is trying to ameliorate the child's behavior now, before it becomes a permanent, adult, actionable criminal behavior. Best of luck to both father and son.)

Technically, rjc3 needs to find out the school's firewall policy, to ensure that out-going data of this sort will not be intercepted. If it's being sent as email via a private mail tool using port 25 it's probably fine. If it's using some other port it may get blocked, in this day and age of p2p mp3 campus activity.

rjc3, I have some experience with computer security, some with parenting, and some with being a kid. If you need some private, technical counsel, please email me directly.
Since EBCDIC
Using Macs since they were Lisas.
     
blackbird_1.0
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Nov 19, 2003, 06:52 AM
 
as someone mentioned why not take him out of boarding school and bring him home? why? maybe he's being sent away to keep him out of trouble, you definately don't want him being influenced by public school kids after his own tangle with the law

not that public school is bad, but they infrastructure is less unifored and less conformed and kids go wild

also i do believe that spying on your kids may be illegal in SOME states, i don't know about obeerseas, b/c i remember seeing a report on tv a few year ago where these parents went to prison for spying on thier kids with a hidden camera.
Apple II GS | Powerbook 165 | iMac Rev. A 96mb RAM| iBook G3 500mhz, 128mb RAM | Power Macintosh G5 1.6ghz, 2.25gb RAM | Black MacBook 2ghz, 2gb RAM | iPhone Rev. A 8gb HD
     
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Nov 19, 2003, 07:28 AM
 
     
Ken Masters
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Nov 19, 2003, 08:25 AM
 
If i was the son, and i found out my father was stalking me,

I would KILL him!!!

Stab him in the EYE!!!
     
suprz's ghost
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Nov 19, 2003, 09:03 AM
 
Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Funny, this just came out last night...

http://spectorsoft.com/products/Spec...osh/index.html
Great software, if i had a G/F that was using my computer, i would most definitely have it!
(i'm not the "trusting" sort)
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"...Albert Einstein
     
Walker
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Nov 19, 2003, 09:18 AM
 
Interesting thread. Especially for me considering I have a 16 yr old, 14 yr old, and 12 year old all with computers in their room (my old macs). Our house rules are whenever they are online, the room door must be wide open. In addition, they've been told that at any time, we as parents have the right to check their computer if we feel concerned about possible problems. Also, the most forbidden item is communication (messenger apps) with an unknown person.

Having laid down the law, my kids have still pushed the envelope with what they are doing on the net. They have had their internet abilities taken from them from time to time.

I am in complete 100% agreement with the "evil" dad. It is purely a safety issue. Sometimes the only thing a parent can trust is their instincts. More often than not, instincts are correct. If a parent feels that an escalated monitoring of a childs computer is warranted, than so be it. Any other person, particularly people who have no kids or teenagers, has no right to judge. Parenting is the toughest job in the world. Sometimes you have to pull out all stops to do it right.

Good luck with your son. Someday he will appreciate your love and concern.

lw
     
janmc
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Nov 19, 2003, 09:54 AM
 
The amount of spyware available has got me a little paranoid!

'Evil Dad'- does your son have any older siblings? They might be able to deal with it a little more informally than you can. Or even older friends/cousins that he looks up to? Sometimes parents are the worst people when it comes to talking to their children! I know that when I was his age, parents were not to be confided in.

Good luck!
     
ebuddy
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Nov 19, 2003, 10:52 AM
 
RJC3;

I apologize for having come down hard on this and I have no technological info to bring to the table. I'm sorry to hear that you have made up your mind and that the child will remain at the boarding school. I won't ask questions regarding the ages of your other two children, because what you've shared is more than you should've had to and it's really none of our business. I am very opinionated and can't help, but feel that you are making a grave error by having sent your child away. His friends are not the problem. This child simply had/has way too much time on his hands. I understand the Boarding School option appears on the outside as though you're complying as much as possible w/ court order, but I don't believe you're solving the actual problem. You've seemingly created more problems for yourself as evidenced by what you're going through now.

I do not envy you. I have two daughters, 9 and 12 and I occasionally monitor the 12 yr old's IM history because I think a parent has to be at least half as smart as the kid. The good news is they are really too busy so I don't see them at the computer much at all. Spy, lurk, and talk a lot to the kid. I'm glad to hear you're going with the upfront approach, but still wished you could bring him home. I'll be honest with you. I think the answer is total time consumption as I think kids should be extremely busy, but I'll leave the topic at that.

I'm fully convinced folks like MoonMonkey exist for the sole purpose of destroying what little of any quality fiber humanity has left.
ebuddy
     
Grammar Police
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Nov 19, 2003, 11:29 AM
 
Originally posted by Nai no Kami:
My English is much better than your Spanish.
Don't even dare to make a mistake in Spanish, Portuguese or French, or I will make you look like a jerk... once again. Please.
Why do you have to make such a stupid assumption? If you knew who I was, you would know that I wasn't born in the United States. That being said, I speak both English and Spanish fluently. So once again... cram it.


I have bothered to read the entire thread. If you had read the first post, you should understand that all the comments regarding how rjc3 must behave towards his son are absolutely out of place.


If it weren't for the large number of caring responses rjc3 received, I would agree with you. I would have more readily accepted your comment had you posted it at the beginning of the thread. But you didn't. You posted it after many people had given rjc3 good advice and after he had expressed appreciation for all of the posts. Never once did rjc3 ask for people to stop talking about his life after the thread had started.
Dictionaries are your friends.
     
absmiths
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Nov 19, 2003, 11:49 AM
 
I don't really think there is much you can do while he is away. Even if you completely monitor his machine, what is to prevent him from using a friends machine (more likely for criminal activity)?

This may not seem like an attractive choice, but for something like this you need him at home.

My personal opinion is that a concerned, involved *nearby* parent can do more than an equiped remote parent. I am not implying that you can't be a concerned parent from a distance, but for a 13 year old that much time away sucks (especially when you consider how much trouble is to be had at boarding schools - I went to one and they suck).
     
nredman
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Nov 19, 2003, 01:27 PM
 
Originally posted by Ken Masters:
If i was the son, and i found out my father was stalking me,

I would KILL him!!!

Stab him in the EYE!!!
*LOL*

"I'm for anything that gets you through the night, be it prayer, tranquilizers, or a bottle of Jack Daniel's."
     
rjc3  (op)
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Nov 19, 2003, 03:40 PM
 
Can someone please provide me with a cron command that will send me the log via email? I've fooled with the terminal a little and am comfortable using PICO, if that is necessary. ANy assistance would be welcome. THanks!
     
midwinter
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Nov 19, 2003, 04:03 PM
 
Wow, this is an amazing thread.

While I'm all for monitoring your son's computer usage--if only more parents had such devotion--I wonder whether this will simply mean your son moves over to another computer?

I realize that this is probably a moot point, anyway, but it's something to consider. I guess it's better than doing nothing, but anyway. . . .

Cheers
Scott
     
Immortal K-Mart Employee
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Nov 19, 2003, 04:14 PM
 
So what did he do with these credit cards exactly? Must have been hard core if they took a 13 year old to court.

{v2.3 Now Jesus free}
Religions are like farts: yours is good, the others always stink.
     
juanpacolopez
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Nov 19, 2003, 04:32 PM
 
Originally posted by moonmonkey:
This is illegal.

Your Son has the same rights of data protection as you.
Actually, you couldn't possibly be more wrong about this one.

In my company, I've recently been charged (as the sysadmin) with monitoring the employee computer/internet useage and reporting to management (the partners). We're a (very) large law-firm, and MUCH research was done on the legality of computer/internet monitoring before the idea was ever even proposed.

At least in my state (Georgia) it all comes down to ownership. In this case the 13 y/o (obviously) didn't purchase the computer... it was purchased FOR HIM with the intent to be used at school. In this case, because he is a minor, the computer is still legally the property of the parents. They can install/monitor the computer all they want. They can even go so far as to monitor any account on a 3rd party service (hotmail or the like) WITHOUT his knowledge since, again as a minor, he has no legal right to enter into contract and any license/privacy/other agreement is transferred to his legal guardians.

On the ethical side of the fence, I wholeheartedly agree that the father has EVERY right to ensure his son is not up to anything illegal. As others have pointed out, if the son WERE to violate his court order, part or all of the resulting damages could (and most probably would) be assigned to his guardians. In this case, the son did something illegal and one of the consequences is (rightly) that his internet activity must be monitored.

While I agree that monitoring a computer to make sure your 13 y/o isn't looking at porn is silly and wrong (a 13 year old boy IS going to be curious and look at porn, period); this is an entirely different issue. In this case the father faces very real, palpable legal consequences should his son step out of line. It is absolutely his duty as a father to ensure that doesn't happen.
Alex

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rampguy
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Nov 19, 2003, 05:27 PM
 
It records keystrokes and screenshots, and allows you to view them online via the web.

All info is sent via SSL. You can access the logs even when the computer being monitored is off. Very powerful software.

-Alex
     
rampguy
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Nov 19, 2003, 05:28 PM
 
Forgot to leave the URL (wrote it in the Subject):

www.viewremote.com
     
Nai no Kami
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Nov 19, 2003, 06:10 PM
 
Originally posted by Grammar Police:
Why do you have to make such a stupid assumption? If you knew who I was, you would know that I wasn't born in the United States. That being said, I speak both English and Spanish fluently. So once again... cram it.




If it weren't for the large number of caring responses rjc3 received, I would agree with you. I would have more readily accepted your comment had you posted it at the beginning of the thread. But you didn't. You posted it after many people had given rjc3 good advice and after he had expressed appreciation for all of the posts. Never once did rjc3 ask for people to stop talking about his life after the thread had started. [/B]
I really don't care where you were born. And I assume that my English is better than your Spanish because you can't prove it otherwse, and I can prove my point anytime you like. Also, I am not talking about speaking fluently, but writing fluently instead. From now on, I will reply to you only in Spanish, and I expect you to do the same, If you want a fair base to show up stupid errors.

***End of English usage***

Por otro lado, si alguien pide un consejo sobre c�mo hacer alguna cosa y no quiere dar razones, me parece lamentable que las respuestas tiendan a forzarlo a dar las razones que, en un principio, no quiso dar. Que el que pregunta sea un buen tipo y acepte los "consejos" mal dados, es otra historia: en el momento en que todos respondieron sobre c�mo deb�a actuar, nadie sab�a que rjc3 agradecer�a los "consejos" propiciados. Pero as� y todo, la verdad es que es imposible saber si todo esto es cierto: no hay forma de constatar que la historia contada es verdadera o no. Perfectamente podr�a tratarse de un chico bastante despierto que, con una historia como esta, pretende obtener consejos sobre c�mo invadir la computadora de su padre; o un empleado con su jefe u otro empleado, por deir alg�n caso.
Por eso, la ayuda es desinteresada: si te interesa ayudar, hazlo; si no, no. Pero no andes buscando justificaciones por que, aunque te las den, no sirven de nada. Y es mucho m�s absurdo andar dando lecciones de moral cuando no sab�s a qui�n le habl�s.
Y si te gusta tratar el tema en abstracto, no hay problema: para eso existe en "New Thread". Todos hablan de respetar la privacidad de la gente, pero nadie tuvo en cuenta la privacidad de rjc3 cuando quiso omitir detalles sobre ciertas cosas y se lo forz� a hablar m�s de lo que manifest� ten�a voluntad de hacer.

Y no entienden nada... ¡y cómo se divierten!...
     
Since EBCDIC
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Nov 19, 2003, 06:14 PM
 
Originally posted by rjc3:
Can someone please provide me with a cron command that will send me the log via email? I've fooled with the terminal a little and am comfortable using PICO, if that is necessary. ANy assistance would be welcome. THanks!
Trust me, if you have to ask then you won't be doing a quarter-arsed job hiding your monitoring from even the most cursory examination.

If you are going to monitor him, do it competently, and evaluate the professionall-written code to which you've been pointed in this thread. Putting something into the cron file is glaringly obvious. Might as well scribble "offspring under surveillance" across the monitor.
Since EBCDIC
Using Macs since they were Lisas.
     
Grammar Police
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Nov 19, 2003, 06:27 PM
 
Originally posted by Nai no Kami:
I really don't care where you were born. And I assume that my English is better than your Spanish because you can't prove it otherwse, and I can prove my point anytime you like. Also, I am not talking about speaking fluently, but writing fluently instead. From now on, I will reply to you only in Spanish, and I expect you to do the same, If you want a fair base to show up stupid errors.
Oooh oooh! I have a great idea! Let's have a contest to see who is the best writer! We can use English, Spanish, French, and Japanese!

Or better yet, let's see whose genitals are larger!

P.S. My dad can beat up your dad.
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rjc3  (op)
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Nov 19, 2003, 06:27 PM
 
I appreciate your comments, but I think you missed the part where I tell my son I am installing a keystroke loggger on his cpu. Several people suggested I inform my son he is under surveillence instead of trying to spy on him without his knowledge, and upon reflection, I agree with them. I have no problems with the process being visible to him, in fact, I hope it is visible to him and serves as an additional deterrent. So I still think the cron file is the place to be. Now, if only there were a unix geek to tell my exactly what to type in the terminal....

Originally posted by Since EBCDIC:
Trust me, if you have to ask then you won't be doing a quarter-arsed job hiding your monitoring from even the most cursory examination.

If you are going to monitor him, do it competently, and evaluate the professionall-written code to which you've been pointed in this thread. Putting something into the cron file is glaringly obvious. Might as well scribble "offspring under surveillance" across the monitor.
     
Turias
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Nov 19, 2003, 06:41 PM
 
Hmmm, now that I think about it, I bet you could do the following:

Write a cron script that runs every minute. This script checks the timestamp of an invisible file on the file system. If the file has not been "touched" in the past 24 hours, or if the file does not exist, it checks to see if there is an active connection to the internet. If there is, the script "touches" or creates the file and e-mails you the report.

Type "man touch" in the terminal if you have any questions.

This script should e-mail you once a day with a report, as soon as he is connected to the internet.

If you have any questions or need any further help with this, please let me know.
     
moonmonkey
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Nov 19, 2003, 07:29 PM
 
Originally posted by torifile:
When they're minors, yes. When they turn 18, absolutely not. In case you missed it, this kid's 13.
I think the laws are different in the US.
In the UK a parent has no access to this information without permission from the child concerned.

Data protection act 1988 (or similar)
     
 
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