[OldManMac]

Local news has been all over this for the last few days. I'm surprised it hasn't gone further. His father and neighbor were also arrested, and his mother is "shocked" that he had an arsenal at their home, and that he's not such a nice boy.

---
ClickOnDetroit.com
Internet Chat Foils Alleged Plot To Attack High School
17-Year-Old, Father Taken Into Custody

5:36 PM EDT September 17, 2004

CLINTON TOWNSHIP, Mich. -- A 17-year-old Michigan teenager is accused of plotting a Columbine-like attack on a high school after police say the plan was foiled by a man thousands of miles away.

Police said Andrew Osantowski made threats over the Internet to bomb Chippewa Valley High School in Clinton Township, Mich. Investigators executed a search warrant on the boy's home and a neighbor's home Thursday night.

"Investigators then took into custody the student and his father," said Clinton Township police Chief Al Ernst. "Our investigators found what appears to be the student planning an attack on the school and our police officers."

A neighbor was also arrested.

Police reportedly learned of the plan by a teenage girl and her father who live in Washington state. The girl was chatting with Osantowski online when her father -- a police officer -- noticed the content. He then alerted police in Michigan about the online chat, WDIV-TV reported.


SCHOOL SCARE
Police Display Weapons, Items Seized From Student's Home
Former Student Expresses Concern


Mills said there was no date for a planned attack, but it is believed Osantowski was plotting something "in the near future." He said the boy was "angry" at everyone and did not name a particular race of students.

Someone gave the Osantowski verbal assistance on how to make a bomb and provided him with Web pages to do it, according to Capt. Douglas Mills.

Items found during the searches include blueprints stolen from the high school, an AK-47 and other weapons, ammunition, 15 pipe bombs and instructional bomb-making videos and materials, reported WDIV-TV in Detroit. Police displayed some of the items, including tools stolen from local construction sites, in a Friday press conference.

The school was closed Thursday afternoon for the investigation and games were canceled Thursday evening. Nothing was found during a search of the school, and classes resumed Friday morning.

"The school has been very active in taking precautions to ensure it is safe. We believe the school is safe and the community is safe," said Ernst.

Parents will be informed of the investigation through a letter from school officials.

"It's scary," said former student Adam Smalley. "I know kids that go here. I have friends who go here. I worry about them."

School officials said the 17-year-old attended De La Salle High School in Warren, Mich., in September 2002, where he spent his freshman year and a few weeks as a sophomore. Police said they have not found any evidence that other students were involved.


UPDATED: 7:22 PM EDT September 20, 2004

Police confiscated between 200 and 300 videotapes during a search on a Clinton Township teen's home on Thursday night.
Video

See Video Of Teen Shouting, Firing Weapon
Download RealPlayer

Andrew Osantowski, 17, who was charged with plotting an attack on his high school, is seen in one tape wearing a white-power T-shirt, shouting and pointing an AK47 into a mirror, Local 4 reported.

In another tape, an unknown cameraman recorded Osantowski taking target practice with the weapon in a remote field.

"It's evidence that Andrew had these guns and shot these guns," said Detective Jeffrey Barbera, of the Clinton Township Police Department. "It's evidence that somebody other than Andrew, the person holding the camera, knew he had these weapons."

Osantowski was charged on Friday with threatening terrorism, concealing stolen firearms, breaking and entering a gun shop, and threatening to kill a witness, among other charges. A not-guilty plea was entered in 41-B District Court on his behalf.

Police said Osantowski made threats over the Internet to bomb Chippewa Valley High School, located at 19 Mile and Romeo Plank roads. Investigators executed a search warrant Thursday night on the boy's home on Oakland Court and a neighbor's home.

Police reportedly learned of the plan by a teenage girl and her father who live in Washington state. The girl was chatting with Osantowski online when she notified her father of the increasingly disturbing content, Local 4 reported. The father then alerted police in Michigan.

Osantowski allegedly said in one of the chats, "On judgment day, I'll probably kill my family, my three cats, then off to school."

Barbera told Local 4 that Osantowski has admitted he was going to do more with the weapons than what was seen in the videotapes.

"We averted a disaster. By luck and by some good police work, we got to him before he was able to act out," Barbera said.

Osantowski's bond was set at $1 million.

Chippewa Valley High School was holding an informational meeting for parents at 6:30 p.m. Monday.

Osantowski, who had only been attending Chippewa Valley for ten days before his arrest, was expelled from the school.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/3746531/detail.html

[storer]

Mmm great... more people dying. Seriously, i am glad i live in australia

[rozwado1]

Karl, what city are you in?

[OldManMac]

Novi

[rozwado1]

It's more in my back yard than yours then. This kid's a psycho. I know kids that had class with him and they just said he was quiet, not Columbine crazy. I'm trying to figure out if the kid is crazier than the dad or vice versa. Oh, btw, this kid lives about 6 miles from me. Good to know I can get my hands on military weapons in my area.

[OldManMac]

It is more in your backyard than mine, but it's still local enough to me. I'm out that way a lot; my best friend lives in Clinton Twsp, and my mother lives in Sterling Heights.

[nredman]

crazy, where are the parents in these situations

[Superchicken]

apparently they're plotting in this case.

That said... I'm so glad Canada has stricter gun laws...

News flash, the British aren't coming back, the Russians aren't going to land on your door step, and we Canadians are no threat. There is no reason to have as many guns as you do!

[nredman]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
apparently they're plotting in this case.

That said... I'm so glad Canada has stricter gun laws...

News flash, the British aren't coming back, the Russians aren't going to land on your door step, and we Canadians are no threat. There is no reason to have as many guns as you do!

i have to agree, i wish we had alot better gun control, but guns don't kill people, people kill people.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by nredman:
i have to agree, i wish we had alot better gun control, but guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Nucular weapons don't kill people, people that push the red button kill people. NUKES FOR EVERYONE!! (just no red buttons - they need to be controlled)

[MacMan4000]

It's stuff like this that makes foreigner's think America is so fcuked up! And I'll admit, it is a little bit... But not that much!

Damn Racists always screwing up everything for normal people.

[djohnson]

Originally posted by nredman:
i have to agree, i wish we had alot better gun control, but guns don't kill people, people kill people.

No, bullets kill people. What is wrong with having a gun or 10? They are fun to shoot for target practice. I mainly like smaller caliber guns though....

EDIT: Forgot the entire point of this thread! Good job for the cops. I don't see how kids get guns.....

[Zimphire]

China needs knife control!

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...203EDT0526.DTL

[milhous]

whew, ditto that zimph!

[Zimphire]

Just goes to show, if a gun isn't used.. they will just use something else.

[strictlyplaid]

Sure, and if I didn't have a computer, I'd use a notepad. But the computer is a lot more efficient.

So, unfortunately, is the gun.

[Zimphire]

From this story.. it seems so is the knife.

[Fyre4ce]

Originally posted by voodoo:
Nucular weapons don't kill people, people that push the red button kill people. NUKES FOR EVERYONE!! (just no red buttons - they need to be controlled)

Chris Rock says that guns should be available to everyone but bullets should cost $5000 each.

[nforcer]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
the British aren't coming back, the Russians aren't going to land on your door step, and we Canadians are no threat.

I still don't trust Madagascar. They must be hiding something. Out on that little island trying to look so peaceful. We never hear from them. I'm certain they are up to something.

[nforcer]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Just goes to show, if a gun isn't used.. they will just use something else.

Exactly. Anything can be turned into a weapon.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by Fyre4ce:
Chris Rock says that guns should be available to everyone but bullets should cost $5000 each.

Spliffdaddy says that Chris Rock's opinion along with a nickel is worth four cents.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by KarlG:
Osantowski allegedly said in one of the chats, "On judgment day, I'll probably kill my family, my three cats, then off to school."

...white power t-shirt...picture of jesus in the room.

meh. all coincidence. the "cult of self etseem" is totally overrated.

[MilkmanDan]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
apparently they're plotting in this case.

That said... I'm so glad Canada has stricter gun laws...

News flash, the British aren't coming back, the Russians aren't going to land on your door step, and we Canadians are no threat. There is no reason to have as many guns as you do!

To quote my right wing room mate 'To overthrow an oppressive government." You know, the kind with tanks, planes, and nukes. Nothing like a few thousand people with shot guns vs the US army.

[Ω]

A biased view:

Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
In 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:

373 people in Germany

151 people in Canada

57 people in Australia

19 people in Japan

54 people in England and Wales, and

11,789 people in the United States

http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

Even given a handy margin of error......

[djohnson]

Take into consideration the population of each of those countries as well.

[Luca Rescigno]

I have. I did a report on gun control about a year ago and I did a lot of research into it, and yes, the US has a much higher rate of gun deaths (murders and other) for its population than those countries in Europe. It's about four times greater per capita, from what I remember.

However, I don't think you can pin it down on "guns kill people" or "people kill people." Guns have a psychological effect on people, that allows them to pull the trigger very easily compared to, say, using a knife for murder, which requires strength, speed, and overall a lot more skill. If someone were to catch a thief in their home and brandished the butcher knife to scare them off, I doubt the theif would actually be harmed in the incident. But if the homeowner had a gun, I'd say the theif would be in real danger.

Or look at Columbine or any number of other school shootings. What would these kids have done without guns? Run around the school stabbing people to death? You think they would have been able to kill 13 other students at Columbine using only knives? No way.

I'm not saying we need to have a super restrictive gun control system. I don't think that's the main problem. The main problem is really beyond our control, and it lies in how society views guns as an easy way to get power and control to do whatever you want. Making stricter gun control laws won't change that a bit. But if we as a society had less of an emphasis on guns, and if we didn't glorify them so much, maybe violent tendencies like these wouldn't be as dangerous.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by djohnson:
Take into consideration the population of each of those countries as well.

germany: ~ 80 million

the us: ~ 280 million

373 vs. 11,789

yup, seems about right.

[Ω]

Countries Ranked by Population: 2004
--------------------------------------------------------
Rank Country Population
--------------------------------------------------------
3 United States 293,027,571
10 Japan 127,333,002
14 Germany 82,424,609
21 United Kingdom 60,270,708
34 Canada 32,507,874
52 Australia 19,913,144

http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbrank.pl

Your point?

[Ω]

Country.......Deaths.....Population...........%

US...............11789...293,027,571.....0.00402%
Germany.........373......82,424,609.....0.00045%
Canada............151......32,507,874.....0.00046%
Japan................19......127,333,002....0.0000 1%
Aus...................57........19,913,144....0.00 029%
UK.....................54........60,270,708....0.0 0009%

[ironknee]

was there national coverage on this? I didn't see any

good thing the assault wepons ban is over

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by _?_:
Country.......Deaths.....Population...........%

US...............11789...293,027,571.....0.00402%
Germany.........373......82,424,609.....0.00045%
Canada............151......32,507,874.....0.00046%
Japan................19......127,333,002....0.0000 1%
Aus...................57........19,913,144....0.00 029%
UK.....................54........60,270,708....0.0 0009%

thanks for doing the math _?_!

interesting comparison.

[Ω]

I do not see how you can argue against these figures.

I will admit that guns do not kill people, people kill people.

But what if you can't trust the people?

Assault rifles being made legal again is sheer lunacy. To argue they are for "hunting" and using on practice ranges.

Are people that naive?

[drive-thru]

I agree that guns have a psychological affect on people.
I can imagine that killing someone with a gun can be done with less personal involvement than, say, with a knife.

America has a lot of land suitable for hunting, so people in those areas should be albe to buy hunting rifles, fine. In the UK a person can own a rifle/shotgun if they have a reason to do so (farmers especially) and I think they might also have to be a member of a shooting club. I can understand the reason these guns are sold to the public.
My mind is not so made up about people owning handguns to protect themselves, their families and their property. I can understand that people who live in rough areas may feel at risk, but if someone breaks into your home they're not looking to kill you, they just want your stuff. If you would rather kill someone than claim on your insurance then I guess that's up to you. If someone broke into my home and they had a gun, I can imagine being more at risk of being shot if I was pointing a gun back at them.
I also don't like the message that having a gun in your house sends to your children. Partly because I'm not entirely sure what that message is, and they probably wouldn't either.

What I am really opposed to is the sale of automatic/assault weapons. I don't care if people belong to a gun club and just shot this type of gun for fun. There is no need for anyone to own a Mac-10 or AK47. Period.

[finboy]

Originally posted by _?_:


Even given a handy margin of error......

When you post numbers for how many crimes were prevented by guns during the same period, and how many criminals were apprehended with guns, you might be getting close to something valuable.

Besides, it's illegal for a kid to own an AK-47 (an AK-47 is fully automatic). Maybe the media got it wrong, the description I mean. Fully auto guns are only legal for law enforcement professionals. In most states it isn't legal for anyone under 18 to own a weapon of any kind, with a few exceptions for hunting and with parental supervision.

Gun control didn't work in this case. Gun control never prevents sickos from being sickos, it just disarms their victims.

[finboy]

Originally posted by _?_:


But what if you can't trust the people?

You can't trust the people? Who CAN you trust?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by djohnson:
Take into consideration the population of each of those countries as well.

Yeah but shhhh! Let them have their spin.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Fyre4ce:
Chris Rock says that guns should be available to everyone but bullets should cost $5000 each.

That way, every time someone got shot, people would be like damn! he must'a done something! Sh1t...they put $50,000 worth of bullets in him! /Chris Rock