[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

"Actually it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot," Mattis said, prompting laughter from some military members in the audience. "It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up there with you. I like brawling.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/03/gen...oot/index.html

[OldManMac]

Obviously, a disturbed individual, who thinks one goes through life winning friends and influencing people by beating the crap out of them.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by KarlG:
Obviously, a disturbed individual, who thinks one goes through life winning friends and influencing people by beating the crap out of them.

"one of this country's bravest and most experienced military leaders."

[Mafia]

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis said. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

lol the american way!

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
"one of this country's bravest and most experienced military leaders."

It takes a lot of bravado to direct others to war, and their deaths.

I will grant that he has a lot of experience at it.

[iDriveX]

Sorry guys, I'm gonna take a stance on this one. I would love to shoot someone as well that was shooting at me. It would suck being in Afghanistan and being hated and shot at 100% and all the time. Maybe we should or should not be there. But if I was there, I'd be all about killing someone that was trying to kill me.

[Spliff]

Why is anyone shocked or appalled by this? Doesn't anyone read military history? There are soldiers who enjoy warfare and killing. Historians know this. Soldiers know this. The general public doesn't want to know this.

[Face Ache]

There's a long list of people who think it's fun to kill Americans, so it works out about even.

[Busemann]

People are people; American military leaders think exactly the same as al-qaeida military leaders. War always brings out the worst in people

[iLikebeer]

Just curious why you posted this. Obviously you quoted the sensational part, but is there a greater reason behind this thread?

Yeah, war sucks. This guy has been there many times for real and maybe used the wrong words. If you read the whole story, you get the actual context.

He chose his words poorly, I'll give you that. I don't think you should criticize a guy that has actually had to shoot bullets at another person to survive until you have done it yourself, even if you disagree with why he was there. Would you make fun of a Vietnam vet that had flashbacks and said some weird stuff? Did you criticize Kerry for his role in Vietnam?

Sorry, you didn't give any commentary, so I'm just wondering what your point is besides Americans = gun happy killerz.

[spacefreak]

CNN BREAKING NEWS...Pilots heard, seen expressing joy after successful missions

"Woo-hoo," exclaimed the American pilot after firing a missile into his target. Upon his return to base, high fives could be seen as the pilots were dismounting from their jets. An isolated incident? Not a chance, says CNN coorespondent Chris Weenielib, "Happens all the time.".

[bubblewrap]

Until you've actually been at the controls of a fighter/bomber, you'll never be able to understand the "elation". These men are masking the horror they have to go through when they release their ordinance. Believe me, they're not heartless/souless monsters.

[nath]

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
Until you've actually been at the controls of a fighter/bomber, you'll never be able to understand the "elation". These men are masking the horror they have to go through when they release their ordinance. Believe me, they're not heartless/souless monsters.

Oh, dude...

[deomacius]

I certainly wouldn't want someone who would turn tale and run leading our combat forces. War IS killing. If you're going to engage in it at least put someone out there who's able to do it.

[bubblewrap]

Originally posted by nath:
Oh, dude...

Have YOU been in that situation yet?

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by iDriveX:
It would suck being in Afghanistan and being hated and shot at 100% and all the time. Maybe we should or should not be there. But if I was there, I'd be all about killing someone that was trying to kill me.

I don't think they would be trying to shoot you if you weren't in THEIR country to begin with.

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
Have YOU been in that situation yet?

You mean, as in being in fighter plane, taking out a group of unarmed people, where the advantage is extraordinarily in favor of the an armed machine, versus a few people on the ground? I certainly hope not.

[Scientist]

This guy is a psycho. Heck, anyone who would go out and fight in a pointless war is a little screwy, but this just takes the cake.

[nath]

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
Have YOU been in that situation yet?

what's your point? I didn't criticise anyone, or profess expertise. It is what it is - people act like animals in war. The link I supplied is just another example of that.

[BoomStick]

Originally posted by KarlG:
You mean, as in being in fighter plane, taking out a group of unarmed people, where the advantage is extraordinarily in favor of the an armed machine, versus a few people on the ground? I certainly hope not.

They were all going to explode anyways when they strapped on their anti-freedom� vests and went into the crowds to detonate them. The pilot merely accelerated the process.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by Scientist:
This guy is a psycho. Heck, anyone who would go out and fight in a pointless war is a little screwy, but this just takes the cake.

So how does someone that nuts get that high up in command and metals?

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
So how does someone that nuts get that high up in command and metals?

Have you ever been in the military, where medals are worn as a badge of honor? It also has little to do with rank; the military is full of people who think it's their duty to kill those with whom we disagree. That's the whole purpose behind the military. If we could sit down and discuss our differences, we wouldn't need a military. Sadly, humanity hasn't figured that out yet.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by KarlG:
Have you ever been in the military, where medals are worn as a badge of honor? It also has little to do with rank; the military is full of people who think it's their duty to kill those with whom we disagree. That's the whole purpose behind the military. If we could sit down and discuss our differences, we wouldn't need a military. Sadly, humanity hasn't figured that out yet.

I would have thought prescreening would have filtered them out, not promoted them.

[BoomStick]

The French tried that and look what it got them.

Overran every year or so.

[James L]

I don't think the issue is shooting at the enemy who is shooting at you, but laughing and bragging about it like a testosterone ridden redneck on a hunting trip.

Like it or not, the US government has attempted to place themselves on what they perceive as the moral high ground, and you can read comments on here daily that people feel the US is bringing a higher level of society and morality to the Iraqi people, etc.

Well, if that is the case, then the US must also walk the walk. That means not laughing and high fiving when they have killed someone.

I work in the emergency services. I have dealt with shootings often, and with officers who have performed the shooting. They were not laughing and high fiving. They understood that they were placed in a shitty situation and did what they had too. Ask any one of them to a man and they will tell you they didn't enjoy it.

As to the person who said this:

They were all going to explode anyways when they strapped on their anti-freedom� vests and went into the crowds to detonate them. The pilot merely accelerated the process.

What a horrible generalization, and it is akin to saying every white American male has the same values as Timothy McVeigh did.

Take off your blinders and wake up to the real world.

Many of the people killed in war are innocents. American pilots have also killed British, Canadian, etc soldiers in friendly fire accidents. This is a sad reality of war... but it does happen. Again, however, to kill these people, not all of whom are hostile combatants, and then high five on it after you land is disgusting.

[BoomStick]

Don't be so sanctimonious and judgemental.

You are the one throwing the hateful, bigotus term redneck around like it's unoffensive.

[demograph68]

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
Until you've actually been at the controls of a fighter/bomber, you'll never be able to understand the "elation". These men are masking the horror they have to go through when they release their ordinance. Believe me, they're not heartless/souless monsters.

They are just desensitized. (Like anyone else in war.) It's about programming the mind to accept otherwise cruel things.

[BoomStick]

Like sawing the heads off of innocent civilians while shouting allah akbar?

[demograph68]

Originally posted by BoomStick:
Like sawing the heads off of innocent civilians while shouting allah akbar?

Yes.

[James L]

Originally posted by BoomStick:
Don't be so sanctimonious and judgemental.

You are the one throwing the hateful, bigotus term redneck around like it's unoffensive.

Wrong, I had every intention of being offensive to the idiots high fiving over another good kill.

As to my being judgemental, you called every person who an American bomb may fall on a terrorist who is going to put on a pack of bombs and run into a crowd.

I am judging individual people based on thier actions. You, apparently, have decided to judge people based on a stereotype that is based on place of birth, race, religion, etc.

But, whatever, as long as you can sleep at night.

[Sandbaggins]

Originally posted by demograph68:
Yes.

Horseshit.

[Mafia]

Originally posted by Scientist:
This guy is a psycho. Heck, anyone who would go out and fight in a pointless war is a little screwy, but this just takes the cake.

lol not everyone thinks the war is pointless. and i'm sure he wasn't like hey i'm gonna go fight in iraq i bet he was in the service before the war (judging by his rank) and was called to war.

[demograph68]

Originally posted by Sandbaggins:
Horseshit.

What horseshit?

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
"one of this country's bravest and most experienced military leaders."

I served under James Mattis during Gulf War I as part of Task Force Ripper and I would gladly serve under him again. Making asshole comments doesn't mean that he doesn't have a distinguished record, and proven skills as a commander in combat. I would much rather serve under a commander who is adapt at getting the job done and getting the men and women in his command back in one piece than one that gives flowery PC speeches. If they can do both, fine all the better, but if they can only one or the other, I'll take the guy that can run his troops any day.


I also think you need to put this in proper perspective. This isn't some local police chief. He's a commander in the USMC. For thirty years, his job has been to make people that need to be dead dead. That's what he does. That's his job. He's a comnbat Marine, and by all accounts a damn fine one.

Maybe they should keep guys like Gen. Mattis out of the public eye, but guys like him are always going to be around until the time comes when the world no longer needs armies. And I have no doubt that you can find guys exactly like him in any military in the world, including Canada.

As for celebrating after a mission, until you've been there, you won't understand. Those that know get it, those that don't never will.

[Sandbaggins]

Originally posted by demograph68:
What horseshit?

I try not to post here much (lurk is the way for me) and maybe I misunderstood.

I took your "yes" (to Boomsticks post) reply to mean that the US military is as "desensitized" as the terrorists.


If that's not the case: I slap down the mea culpa card.

I've served. And I can say that all those "Rednecks", "Spics", Niggers", "Slant-eyed" (and other ethnic groups) along with uneducated SOBs and the highly educated f*cks that have taken the oath to defend our nation are the Best Group of Men I've had the Honor of serving with.

But to compare them as desensitized as those terrorist scum is an insult.

Public display of this type of "bravado" from a USMC General is sickening to many.

I understand that. But hopefully others will understand that this man and his rinkydink
citations and medals are a commemoration for his actions, deeds and his dedication to our nation.

Through his actions and esprit de corps he has demonstrated his true nature.

Not through some gaffe that the media have latched on to in a hearbeat. To portray this Marine as some despot who should be kicked out of the USMC is wrong.

I've been there. You need to be in a similar situation to understand the mindset of this Salty Leatherneck to fully understand why he said what he did. The Marines are not the Devil Dogs for nothing. In WWI the Germans after experiencing some fine Marine display of close combat called the Marines the "teufelhunden". Why? Respect, and some say fear.

But times have changed, you have to be PC and "pretend" to a certain extent to be accepted by civilians who would otherwise think you an uncouth bastard who should never have been commissioned to begin with.

General Patton would have had a sh!tfit with the way things are now, but society dictates we keep an image palatable to civilians.

This is one of many reasons vets have more respect towards enemy combatants than they do civilians. Why? Because they've been there as well: on the field as worthy opponents.

Let me say this though: Those ratbastards we are fighting in Iraq, with their "honorable tactics" deserve none. No respect. You can disagree with me and I will not argue.

Those Islamofascists do not respect us. Military OR civilian.

Civilians will find it very hard/never understand the camaraderie a fighting unit in any of our fine branches experiences. Or the language they use.

I understand not everyone will agree. But its part (please notice *part*) of some of the Cadre in our Uniformed services. And very much needed to win wars.

Do not Horseshit and pretend you expect a group of men trained to do a job few will, to not use language like this. Like I said: A high ranking officer should know better, but remember: This crusty F@ck has fought just like our young men and women are out there doing now.

To do what it takes to rid us of this threat.

Not many would give up a life of comfort and relative luxury to do that.

Semper Fi.

[demograph68]

I'm didn't mean to imply that what our soldiers are doing are in any way equal to what the terrorists are doing.

[bubblewrap]

Originally posted by nath:
Oh, dude...

Afterfurther examining the video I found something odd.
I've flown many kinds of planes and all of them make engine sounds through the mic. The tape is devoid of the jet engine as well as the release of the ordinance.
Perhaps this video could be a composite or a propaghanda film?

Or maybe one of the crowd's vest exploded prematurely?

[nath]

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
Afterfurther examining the video I found something odd.
I've flown many kinds of planes and all of them make engine sounds through the mic. The tape is devoid of the jet engine as well as the release of the ordinance.
Perhaps this video could be a composite or a propaghanda film?

Not sure what propaghanda is (some kind of Indian spice?) but the Pentagon took it seriously enough to warrant an investigation when Channel 4 news screened it in the UK.

Originally posted by bubblewrap:

Or maybe one of the crowd's vest exploded prematurely?

Come on now. If nobody laughed the last time, what are the chances of getting lucky with repetition?

[sideus]

Reading what he said and actually hearing it are two different things. The women lib groups should be thanking this outstanding American for protecting women's rights.

I support Lt. Gen. James Mattis.

[rambo47]

Originally posted by nath:
Oh, dude...

Can you tell from that footage that they're unarmed? Didn't think so. And the way I heard the story was quite different. U.S. troops on a sweeping mission looking for terrorists in Fallujah came under fire and were pinned down. They called for TacAir support and were told a large group of insurgents, armed, were headed toward them. Now maybe these insurgents were simply going to offer them milk and cookies, maybe swap some jokes, and let them evacuate their wounded in peace. I guess we'll never know as it seems a little late to be asking the former insurgents. The F-16 was diverted from a strike mission to support the pinned down troops, which it did with percision and effectiveness.


Do any of the children here really believe F-16 pilots are looking to kill anyone in the streets at all, regardless of their intentions? Do you think these highly trained warriors are simply out for blood no matter the source? If so, follow these steps:

1. Grow up. Kinda helps with your world veiw.

2. Get a job. See above.

3. Get a clue. See above.

[nath]

Originally posted by rambo47:
Can you tell from that footage that they're unarmed? Didn't think so. And the way I heard the story was quite different. U.S. troops on a sweeping mission looking for terrorists in Fallujah came under fire and were pinned down. They called for TacAir support and were told a large group of insurgents, armed, were headed toward them. Now maybe these insurgents were simply going to offer them milk and cookies, maybe swap some jokes, and let them evacuate their wounded in peace. I guess we'll never know as it seems a little late to be asking the former insurgents. The F-16 was diverted from a strike mission to support the pinned down troops, which it did with percision and effectiveness.


Do any of the children here really believe F-16 pilots are looking to kill anyone in the streets at all, regardless of their intentions? Do you think these highly trained warriors are simply out for blood no matter the source? If so, follow these steps:

1. Grow up. Kinda helps with your world veiw.

2. Get a job. See above.

3. Get a clue. See above.

This thread was mostly about members of the military getting enjoyment from what they do, and whether or not that is appropriate, or can be taken to excess. The video is an example of that, no more.

Whether or not the killings were justified either militarily or morally is an argument almost entirely in your head. Stop projecting and give the bulging eyes a rest. That wasn't why I posted the video, and I haven't speculated on that at all, other than to say that the Pentagon investigated the circumstances of the video when it was made public, which they did.

As for your insults, try harder. It's quite clear you'd run out of ideas by the time you'd typed 'Grow'.

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by iDriveX:
Sorry guys, I'm gonna take a stance on this one. I would love to shoot someone as well that was shooting at me. It would suck being in Afghanistan and being hated and shot at 100% and all the time. Maybe we should or should not be there. But if I was there, I'd be all about killing someone that was trying to kill me.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by James L:

I work in the emergency services. I have dealt with shootings often, and with officers who have performed the shooting. They were not laughing and high fiving. They understood that they were placed in a shitty situation and did what they had too. Ask any one of them to a man and they will tell you they didn't enjoy it.

I've been to war and I've been in law enforcement, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that it's apples and oranges. There is no comparison between the two. Most cops will never have to fire their weapon at another human being over the course of their entire career. The worst crime ridden cities in the US don't compare to a day in a combat zone. If you've never been in one, you WILL NOT understand the reaction of someone coming out of a firefight high fiving his buddies. You can't comprehend what that's like until you've lived through it, and only then do you have the right to judge them.

Just try and imagine what it's like to be a combat soldier. Give it an honest try. Not like the movies portray it, even the best of them don't do it justice. Imagine what it's like to be in the dirt, shooting at other, living breathing human beings, while they shoot back. Not little pops from a 9mm, but full automatic weapons, heavy weapons, rockets. People being literally torn to pieces before your eyes. Your friends, ripped apart and bleeding out in the sand. Imagine what it is like to spend hours, sometimes days, having to function because others depend on you to do your job, the job of killing other people, while running on equal parts fear, rage, remorse, longing, sleep deprivation and pure adrenaline. You can't comprehend it until you've lived, no matter how hard you try. And you should thank your lucky stars you can't, because it still wakes me up at night years later.

[James L]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
I've been to war and I've been in law enforcement, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that it's apples and oranges. There is no comparison between the two. Most cops will never have to fire their weapon at another human being over the course of their entire career. The worst crime ridden cities in the US don't compare to a day in a combat zone. If you've never been in one, you WILL NOT understand the reaction of someone coming out of a firefight high fiving his buddies. You can't comprehend what that's like until you've lived through it, and only then do you have the right to judge them.

Just try and imagine what it's like to be a combat soldier. Give it an honest try. Not like the movies portray it, even the best of them don't do it justice. Imagine what it's like to be in the dirt, shooting at other, living breathing human beings, while they shoot back. Not little pops from a 9mm, but full automatic weapons, heavy weapons, rockets. People being literally torn to pieces before your eyes. Your friends, ripped apart and bleeding out in the sand. Imagine what it is like to spend hours, sometimes days, having to function because others depend on you to do your job, the job of killing other people, while running on equal parts fear, rage, remorse, longing, sleep deprivation and pure adrenaline. You can't comprehend it until you've lived, no matter how hard you try. And you should thank your lucky stars you can't, because it still wakes me up at night years later.

While I respect your post, and your service to your country, I still hold true to my beliefs.

The main one being that any person who paints all muslims with the same brush and says they are all going to put on their vest and run into a crowd is an utter loser and worthy of contempt. Muslims, like Christians and all other religious and ethnic groups, have their good and bad. To paint them all with the same brush is so remarkably shortsighted it defies explanation.

A select few American soldiers have performed tragic acts of murder, abuse, rape, etc in Iraq. A select few American soldiers have bragged about it to the media and have commented on how they look forward to doing it again. Some people justify it by saying "Well, the terrorists that they are fighting...". This is a useless defense, in my opinion. America preaches moral high ground, and part of that is to walk the walk and not stoop to the level of the enemy. I have zero respect for these soldiers.

BUT, I do not paint the actions of the entire US military by the actions of these select few "soldiers". I have no doubt in my mind that the US military, as for almost all modern militaries with proud histories, is full of brave and honorable men and women working hard in a difficult job.

I respect and applaud these people, just as I vocalize my disdain for the select few that tarnish their efforts.

Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts, and for your service.

[James L]

Originally posted by rambo47:
Do any of the children here really believe F-16 pilots are looking to kill anyone in the streets at all, regardless of their intentions? Do you think these highly trained warriors are simply out for blood no matter the source? If so, follow these steps:

1. Grow up. Kinda helps with your world veiw.

2. Get a job. See above.

3. Get a clue. See above.

I believe F-16 pilots are human, and therefore subject to human emotions and errors in judgement. Look no further than the F-16 pilot who was found guilty of killing 4 Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan when he released ordinance against orders.

Oh, and as to chastising people over their beliefs on the subject of war, you may find that people would have more faith in your suggestions if your username wasn't Rambo.

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by iDriveX:
Sorry guys, I'm gonna take a stance on this one. I would love to shoot someone as well that was shooting at me. It would suck being in Afghanistan and being hated and shot at 100% and all the time. Maybe we should or should not be there. But if I was there, I'd be all about killing someone that was trying to kill me.

Would it be "a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them"?

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by Stradlater:
Would it be "a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them"?

Probably. Have you ever beaten the crap out of someone who started a fight with you? It's very satisfying.

It's also hard to stop once you get going.

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by Busemann:
People are people; American military leaders think exactly the same as al-qaeida military leaders. War always brings out the worst in people

I agree. We think we are humane but everyone goes cuckoo, probably even me, out on the warfield.

[finboy]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:

Just try and imagine what it's like to be a combat soldier.

Tell 'em.

Thanks for your service.

[Mithras]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
...I also think you need to put this in proper perspective. This isn't some local police chief. He's a commander in the USMC. For thirty years, his job has been to make people that need to be dead dead. That's what he does. That's his job. He's a combat Marine, and by all accounts a damn fine one.

Maybe they should keep guys like Gen. Mattis out of the public eye, but guys like him are always going to be around until the time comes when the world no longer needs armies. And I have no doubt that you can find guys exactly like him in any military in the world, including Canada.

As for celebrating after a mission, until you've been there, you won't understand. Those that know get it, those that don't never will.

nice speech